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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Unanswered Questions
    #2459723 - 03/22/04 11:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Can anybody provide evidence that the only reason Islamic terrorists hate us is because of our freedoms? According to George W."Corky" Bush and his handlers, it's our freedoms they despise and what make us targets. I've read statements from Usama bin Laden that take issue with U.S. foreign policy and actions in Muslim countries, but I haven't seen any evidence that they would target us just because of our freedoms.

Can somebody please provide some evidence?

Oh, and while you're at it, please provide proof that Iraq was a threat to the U.S., including descriptions of their ICBM's, what types of warheads they were armed with and the numbers they possessed. Please provide a brief summary of Iraq's naval capabilities, including landing crafts and marine forces which were a threat to the U.S. Please provide a description of their bombers and other aircraft capable of reaching the U.S., including rated payloads and range. Please provide proof that Iraq's secular government was actively aiding Islamic extremist who want to bring theocracies to Muslim countries. Please provide proof that Iraq's government funded and carried out the attacks of 9/11.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: They hate our freedoms? [Re: Evolving]
    #2459753 - 03/22/04 11:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

*chirp chirp chirp*

Damn its quiet in here.


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GabbaDj

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: They hate our freedoms? [Re: Evolving]
    #2460197 - 03/22/04 02:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

when bush talks about "our freedoms"..he means a very specific "our"..namely the freedom for him and his neocon cronies to treat ppl like shit all over the world..including the US...and quite frankly..i dont like their freedoms either...if that makes me a terrorist..then im a terrorist...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: They hate our freedoms? [Re: Evolving]
    #2460284 - 03/22/04 03:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Unanswered Questions [Re: Evolving]
    #2464362 - 03/23/04 06:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How about some input from the supporters of non-defensive U.S. military actions?

Do any interventionists care to comment?

Pinky?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Unanswered Questions [Re: Evolving]
    #2465131 - 03/23/04 09:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I guess I'll give it a shot, though someone else could probably do a better job..

I don't believe it's the only reason they have hatred for us, but it is defintely a component.

I'm the last person you'll find agreeing with our foreign policy. There's no doubt it is deeply flawed. And it may have been a catalyst in their pursuit against us, though it would likely have occured anyway. Osama bin Laden is only a figure head of Islamic fundamentalism. He is just one of the ones who has brought is anti-American sentiment to the forefront.

In my readings those who teach fundamentalist Islam, believe even more strongly with the "either you with us or against us" philosophy.

It doesn't take much to realize the fundamentalists have reinterpreted the teachings of Islam to fit their distorted world view. Their aim to is to bring all of contemporary society under God's rule and law according to their view. To them, there is no place for coexistance. The entire world is their battlefield.

Fundamentalists teach that there are two conflicting mutually exclusvie ideas that are vying for the minds of people: the Islamic fundamentalists paradigm centered on God, and the Western view centered on man and his desires.

Given we have the freedom to live our lives (to some extent) how we choose, and many of us choose to live against their interpretation of God's wishes, how can you see it as anything other them them hating our freedom. Given the oppourtunity, they would establish a theocracy that would bring instant death to any non-believer.

American society is just the scapegoat for everything they see wrong in the world, though they see anyone who doesn't live the way they demand in nearly the same light. They've interpreted jihad to mean they are against ALL who don't embrace their way of life.


http://www.fff.org/freedom/1196b.asp
Quote:

Why is America hated? Yossef Bodansky, in his book Terror! (1994), argues:

"In the eyes of the Islamists, the American way of life and the very freedoms we most prize and cherish ? the personal rights and freedoms of the individual, the pursuit of private happiness and betterment, the separation of church and state ? make the United States 'the Great Satan,' their chief enemy. Because our way of life stands in such stark contradiction to the repressive, constricted authoritarian theocracy the Islamists demand for their own people, the very existence of American values is, for the Islamists, a deadly threat. They even describe it as a deliberate attack on Islam itself."




http://members.cox.net/kevinsblogs/Freedom%20vs%20Virtue.htm


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Unanswered Questions [Re: Evolving]
    #2465166 - 03/23/04 10:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ah, I forgot about the pre-emptive philosophy.

Well, given what we know about them, they have no desire to peacefully coexist, why should we lay in wait, anticipating their attack and then retaliating?

Bringing the battle to them is the only logical choice IMO.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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