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sprinkles
otd president
Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: The Ecstatic]
#24655657 - 09/24/17 10:42 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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yes. go ahead with the SOLO HEALTH STATIONS. you people are fucking killing me.
Dear God, please spark a great tragedy and rid the world of America and the zionist elite. Thank you.
most affectionately, sprinkles.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: sprinkles]
#24655668 - 09/24/17 10:45 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dear sprinkles, Please fill us in on wtf you are talking about.
with bewilderment, ballsalsa
-------------------- Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
Edited by ballsalsa (09/24/17 11:47 AM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,749
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: ballsalsa]
#24655725 - 09/24/17 11:10 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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He thinks single payer means everyone has their own hospital
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Green_T
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#24655774 - 09/24/17 11:27 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just curious for those living in the US: does health insurance there cost more than extra tax in the UK?
With the earlier comments about Belgians and tax, here is a UK tax calculator: Gov.uk estimate tax. Enter in your earnings, and use code "1150L" as your tax code (tax code for people with one income and no work-realted deductions). The end shows how much you take home and how much is tax (and what is social security aka national insurance). The taxes are lower in the USA, but when you add health insurance is it cheaper?
As an example: Someone earning £25,000 per year: take home pay: £20,281.48
Income Tax: £2,698.20 National Insurance: £2,020.32 (Total tax: £4,718.52)
-------------------- "I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: The Ecstatic]
#24655805 - 09/24/17 11:38 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Yeah, the difference there is that I explained why and provided some kind of evidence to support my claim. I wonder when the opposition will be able to do the same...
some internet article written by some journalist, who assumes everything about any study he stumbles across, that confirms his views, and them cobbles together his opinions in an article, isn't evidence.
but that's what you believe, and that'll never change. if you can grasp the logic of "they are one of the richest countries" "they have a much smaller population" ect ect as reasons why the two economies function differently, and thusly, why one system would not work for the other (due to those aforementioned reasons) then that's your problem not understanding the logic behind "you can't afford it".
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Are you saying Americans do have money in savings?
Or are you, gasp, prevaricating?
um, not really, but sure, ok, don't they have money in savings? methinks that they obviously do. but was that even the original question?
you people put everything in averages, that's your dumb problem, not mine.
Edited by akira_akuma (09/24/17 11:46 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: Green_T] 1
#24655815 - 09/24/17 11:42 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: https://data.oecd.org
Healthcare spending per capita expressed in USD: USA- 9, 892.3
U.S. median household income in 2015 was about $56,000 which translates to about £41500. According to your calculator, that comes out to a national insurance bill of £4000 or $5398
You would have to make close to £200,000 per year to begin approach the healthcare cost per capita in the U.S.
-------------------- Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
Edited by ballsalsa (09/24/17 11:52 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#24655830 - 09/24/17 11:46 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Yeah, the difference there is that I explained why and provided some kind of evidence to support my claim. I wonder when the opposition will be able to do the same...
some internet article written by some journalist, who assumes everything about any study he stumbles across, that confirms his views, and them cobbles together his opinions in an article, isn't evidence.
but that's what you believe, and that'll never change.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Are you saying Americans do have money in savings?
Or are you, gasp, prevaricating?
um, not really, but sure, ok, don't they have money in savings? methinks that they obviously do. but was that even the original question?
you people put everything in averages, that's your dumb problem, not mine.
Yeah, the OECD data is just some internet article written by some journalist. Take a deep breath.
As far as saving goes, again, the data speaks for itself. Most Americans have less than $1000 saved. Meanwhile, 2/3 of belgians are saving an average of over $300 per month.
-------------------- Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: ballsalsa]
#24655850 - 09/24/17 11:53 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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oh and here is some "proof", right?
https://www.expatica.com/be/finance/Taxes-in-Belgium_100073.html "The high level of Belgium’s tax rates has long been in contention with Belgium residents. The Belgian government, however, is working to improve Belgium’s tax situation with a raft of tax reforms introduced in 2015 to be implemented in the coming years"
^ proof. oh wait, let me call up their GOVERNMENT, and get them to send me statistics that shows they aren't exactly putting up the best work for these citizens, with said contentions...i'm SURE they'll send me that data as soon as they get around to collating it!
let's take a look at some comments there
"When you work hard and get awarded it's and award and recognition more for the government than yourself! It's not normal that anything gets taxed more than 50%. And at the same time all unemployed immigrants receive an unemployment package of 1000 eur while I work my ass off every single day and and get just a little more"
"My wife is from Belgium, the only reason i live here. 50% is the limit for me, however at Xmas I got a 3,000 bonus, after tax deductions i took home about 750 euros. I flet sick, i could not believe how much the goverment took form me. My company had to pay about 5,000 for me to get paid 3,000 and then they took again to leave me with 750....... Hahaha Everything in Belgium costs more than anywhere else in the EU, cars, taxes on cars, car insureance, TV, internet, phones, food. Buying a house, you pay 15 plus % in taxes up front. Health care, you pay upfront and claim 20% back, doctors, hospitals Crazzy place.
If you work for a company, you have no chance of saving, every little euro you make, some one has a reason to take it off you.
Now, when you come here, you will see a LOT of big nice new cars, houses these people own thire companies and almost all do trads in black. The goverment take so much anyone and everyone who can, will do what they can to avoide paying taxes because of the groverment wanting more than you.
I have never seen so many expats leave because of the taxes."
also take nte: "Belgian income tax is paid on the taxable base, which is determined from salary less (than) compulsory social security contributions"
Quote:
Yeah, the OECD data is just some internet article written by some journalist. Take a deep breath.
*used by some journalist in an article
get used to reading, you need to learn to do it better.
Quote:
As far as saving goes, again, the data speaks for itself. Most Americans have less than $1000 saved. Meanwhile, 2/3 of belgians are saving an average of over $300 per month.
"data speaks for itself"
you're practically out of your mind.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma] 2
#24655885 - 09/24/17 12:02 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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What a surprise, people don't like paying taxes, and have anecdotes about why. the numbers tell a different tale.
as for you footnote, I'm not sure what is so surprising about the fact that belgium doesn't double tax the portion of wages set aside for social security contributions.
from your article:
Quote:
Your taxable income is the income left after deductions for social security contributions, personal allowance, professional costs, etc.
-------------------- Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma]
#24655894 - 09/24/17 12:04 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: you're practically out of your mind.
There's a thin line between madness and genius, my dude.
-------------------- Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: ballsalsa]
#24655900 - 09/24/17 12:06 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
What a surprise, people don't like paying taxes, and have anecdotes about why. the numbers tell a different tale.
a tale that states that people love being government slaves for a slightly lower savings gap between the rich and poor, when slowly the middle class will be reduced to nothing?
GREAT STORY BRO.
Quote:
There's a thin line between madness and genius, my dude.
did you extrapolate that notion from the numbers?
Quote:
Your taxable income is the income left after deductions for social security contributions, personal allowance, professional costs, etc.
yeah, holy shit, that sounds like it's going to be a problem as those programs grow in requisite necessity.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma]
#24655906 - 09/24/17 12:08 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, I just pulled it out of my ass, since that's what we do around here now.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma]
#24655913 - 09/24/17 12:10 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Your taxable income is the income left after deductions for social security contributions, personal allowance, professional costs, etc.
yeah, holy shit, that sounds like it's going to be a problem as those programs grow in requisite necessity.
why is that a problem? Because there will be less and less income subject to income tax under your hypothetical?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: ballsalsa]
#24655924 - 09/24/17 12:15 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: No, I just pulled it out of my ass, since that's what we do around here now.
when a government does a study on itself you
believe it.
Quote:
ballsalsa said: why is that a problem? Because there will be less and less income subject to income tax under your hypothetical?
because income will be less and less valuable, as your costs and taxes raise.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#24655932 - 09/24/17 12:18 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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why would your taxes rise? The tax exemption is off-setting. As one portion goes up, the other has to go down since it doesn't tax wages that have already been taxed under the first portion...
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: ballsalsa]
#24655944 - 09/24/17 12:22 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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a costs rise, you will off-set that with more programs, which will require additional funding (how many New Deals exactly fixes a nation totally?). do you think they intend to use that original offset to use for that future additional funding, or do you think they'll just tax their citizens more, at a higher tax bracket, and give government employees more benefit? i know what i'll most likely see there in the future if this keeps up.
ants and their stimulus.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma] 2
#24655981 - 09/24/17 12:30 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is that how they run their government? Officials just unilaterally raise taxes and give handouts to the public sector?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: ballsalsa]
#24655996 - 09/24/17 12:34 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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they are going to have to, give it ten years, if they keep it up. less, if they hit any snags- but they aren't in the market for selling cheap oil, so they might be lucky in that regard. they have plenty of fungible markets to assess before any possibility of insolvency- just as long as everyone plays along, maybe you could go on 20-30 years. then shit will start to fall apart. but hopefully people won't stand for it that long.
what's funny is, the results will be protectionist economic control and borders. or endless immigration. take your pick.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Posts: 21,991
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma] 2
#24656036 - 09/24/17 12:49 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Rather than ask what information you are basing these claims off of, I'll just ask that you articulate the reasons why you think that outcome is inevitable
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
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Re: Dems Finally Sobering Up. Establishment 2020 frontrunner Kamala Harris endorses single payer [Re: akira_akuma]
#24656050 - 09/24/17 12:57 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: when a government does a study on itself you
believe it.
Can you post evidence that the US Government is putting out fake studies? Or are you still the reigning king of make believe around here?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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