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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25031270 -

LtLurker said:
I've taken LSD among other stuff frequently for years. Just cause the drug makes you "feel" like that's true, doesn't remotely mean it is.



From what I gathered his "reasoning" had nothing to do with the way it made him feel. He was talking about physical crystalline material resonating energy or intention.

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Eclipse3130] * 1
    #25031281 -

Oh you're talking about Kirlian Photography, yea that's total bullshit dude.
https://www.lightstalking.com/what-is-kirlian-photography-the-science-and-the-myth-revealed/

here's an Excerpt: The Science of Kirlian Photography

It can be hard to separate the fact versus the fiction when it comes to Kirlian photography, since these photos are very real and do clearly show some phenomenon at work.  However, the fact that these glowing auras are seen around non-living objects as well as living objects in Kirlian photos is often simply ignored by those who want to believe in the supernatural explanation.

So if the glowing auras seen in Kirlian photography aren’t really caused by something spiritual, paranormal or our “life-energy” then what are they caused by?

The answer is water.

The high-voltage frequency applied to the metal plate rips the electrons off of atoms.  The air around the photographed object becomes ionized.  If that air contains any water, the resulting image will show the glowing silhouette around the object, which scientists actually call a “corona plasma discharge”.

When a person is sweating more due to being overheated, or excited in some way, Kirlian photographs taken of their hands at that time will show a larger more intense glow due to the increased moisture.  Conversely, cold dry hands will produce an image which shows a weaker glow.  Despite the ready availability of this accurate scientific explanation, New Age proponents of Kirlian photography will still argue that the person whose hands showed a larger, brighter glow is a natural healer when they are really just sweaty.


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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #25031285 -

AuroraBorealis88 said:
LtLurker said:
I've taken LSD among other stuff frequently for years. Just cause the drug makes you "feel" like that's true, doesn't remotely mean it is.



From what I gathered his "reasoning" had nothing to do with the way it made him feel. He was talking about physical crystalline material resonating energy or intention.


:thumbsup:

Because even though proper Pure LSD does feel a whole lot better on the mind and body(crystal clarity) I can't base my understanding from feelings alone, but there definitely is a real physical and mental difference you can feel.

Of course most people will never delve this deep into the understanding, and will play it off as something as simple as dosage, set and setting.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #25031289 -

AuroraBorealis88 said:
LtLurker said:
I've taken LSD among other stuff frequently for years. Just cause the drug makes you "feel" like that's true, doesn't remotely mean it is.



From what I gathered his "reasoning" had nothing to do with the way it made him feel. He was talking about physical crystalline material resonating energy or intention.


I was addressing this part "if you work with enough crystals, especially LSD you will understand this eventually. It's very easy to tell apart impure LSD to pure LSD simply within the experience, and physical impurities have no known psychological effects, down to the simple fact of "what you put in you get out" known as intention."

It sounded to me like this is based on first hand experience and feelings from taking LSD over a long period with varying effects, then kinda looking for a reason why, just not very deeply.

But I addressed his little energy thingy to.


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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #25031290 -

You can find a counter argument to anything to support your beliefs, it just so happens I don't beLieve in anything :smile:

How about the Earth is flat vs Sphere?
:goodluckwiththat:

Like I said I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just leaving my experience and understanding here for those who may or may not appreciate it.

The seeds have been planted, that's all that really matters for when the rain may, or may not fall upon your garden :smile:

But one can only have faith.

:peace:


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Eclipse3130] * 2
    #25031299 -

Eclipse3130 said:
AuroraBorealis88 said:
LtLurker said:
I've taken LSD among other stuff frequently for years. Just cause the drug makes you "feel" like that's true, doesn't remotely mean it is.



From what I gathered his "reasoning" had nothing to do with the way it made him feel. He was talking about physical crystalline material resonating energy or intention.


:thumbsup:

Because even though proper Pure LSD does feel a whole lot better on the mind and body(crystal clarity) I can't base my understanding from feelings alone, but there definitely is a real physical and mental difference you can feel.

Of course most people will never delve this deep into the understanding, and will play it off as something as simple as dosage, set and setting.



Dude you're reaching for things to confirm your feeling, no matter how flimsy and indemonstrable it is. Seriously, try to objectively evaluate this with out your feelings.

And don't start gettin condescending with a, "Well I understand more deeply than others" attitude. No, you have Belief, or Faith, in something no one can demonstrate.

So I show you exactly why the methodology you claim proves this energy exists is complete bunk, and that's your response. Well, evaluate it when you are ready. Being wrong is ok bud.


--------------------
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Edited by LtLurker (03/01/18 09:42 AM)

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #25031307 -

Science doesn't have all the answers.. it's nice and all to stand behind it, but it is very limiting as well in a sense. Luckily for you, we are coming upon the most advanced science in history, but I don't necessarily need to convince anyone of my understanding, I'd rather have it act as a seed, that may or may not sprout in the garden of your mind down the road of time.

It's easy to agree to disagree friend, no emotions involved.

Godspeed


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Eclipse3130] * 1
    #25031311 -

Correct, Science doesn't have all the answers, but Faith claims to have all the answers without being able to demonstrate any of them. If Faith could demonstrate their claims, it would be science.

Fun talk. Good Luck Friend.


Oh late add over the you can find proof for any opinion thing. Fair criticism I didn't address. If you'd like I could pull up the actual research papers on the science of it, not a website summation. That's the stuff that actually matters.

Edited by LtLurker (03/01/18 09:57 AM)

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: LtLurker]
    #25031979 -

LtLurker said:
I was addressing this part "if you work with enough crystals, especially LSD you will understand this eventually. It's very easy to tell apart impure LSD to pure LSD simply within the experience, and physical impurities have no known psychological effects, down to the simple fact of "what you put in you get out" known as intention."

It sounded to me like this is based on first hand experience and feelings from taking LSD over a long period with varying effects, then kinda looking for a reason why, just not very deeply.

But I addressed his little energy thingy to.



I see, I was just saying that didn't seem like it was the only reason he thought it. In theory I think someone can have this opinion even if they've never felt it themselves or maybe if they hadn't of tripped on that specific drug even.

Someone could believe this simply because of other lessons the drug or similar drugs has taught them like how the universe and reality is so much more complex and beyond comprehensibility than we could ever extrapolate mentally let alone through scientific materialism. That and just opening yourself up to the idea that energies really can resonate in environment and areas in spacetime. And it can be a sobering insight or a delightful intriguing one spending on the recipient.

I actually think this leaving behind of energy and intention is most common with LSD and Ayahuasca especially the latter. So I think there is something to that.

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #25032237 -

No.


--------------------
:samus::samus:

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Corundum]
    #25032505 -

DerPda said:
You are right, you would have to do an experiment. Double blind study design, all factors stabilized or randomized except your independent variable - the "treated" lsd vs. the "untreated" LSD - and then hand the treated LSD to the experimental group and the untreated LSD to the control group, messure whatever you want to messure as an indicator of trip quality and then perform a statistical analysis on significance of differences between the two groups regarding your dependend variable (the stuff that you messured).


Its just very hard to do this because the psychedelic experience is so variable, yet to those who are able - like myself, we can tell different batches of crystal by a double blind study.  Ive done it myself over a dozen times and 100% of the time known the batch.  So this could be done, but the selection bias, as well as subjective psychedelic experience must be considered into results.

Eclipse3130 said:
The thing with LSD is it's a crystal which means it can vary in purity..

The purer the crystal, the easier it can reflect the absorbed energy, light, and intention that you put into it.

Pure LSD crystal is usually "charged" by its Creator. Meaning the chemist who makes it and purifies it, will have their intentions, and energies engrained into the crystal. This is what makes pure LSD special, is this "spark" of insight or realization that you will experience on the trip, you will be intaking what the Creator wanted you to experience. Same is with all crystals including Cannabis.

You can change water molecules with thought, but most likely the LSD crystal is already pure and charged by its Creator(what you're trying to do now)


That experiment was totally debunked, but I still have a metaphor I use that carries the same message in a better, more understandable manner.  Have you ever been into a house that had “good vibes”?  Or a house that just had “bad vibes”?  Maybe ever heard of a “haunted house”?  Well, these things exist because when a human experiences something so powerful, it has the ability to be transcended into the physical plane and manifest within matter.  Just like haunted houses are scary because bad stuff has happened in them so intensely the matter of the house and area itself is manifest with negative energy/imprints/memory (whatever your vernacular).  So just like the matter of those houses, LSD can be impacted by the energy around it - but the vast majority of what contributes to the true LSD experience is LSD made from ergotamine tartate, as well as a quadricept purification (i.e seperation, column chromotography, further isomer seperation, final column chromotagraphy (4x steps)).

Northerner said:
Masaru Emoto is a fucking lunatic who's main function is to sell extremely expensive seminars, books and make Evian envious about how much can be charged for a single bottle of water. There's no way in the world his experiments with water crystals (also known as snow, duh) and rice would stand up to double blind tests, in fact he was offered a million bucks to do it and turned it down. No one has been able to re-create his "studies" and the whole thing is basically a pseudo-scientific anecdote by a well intentioned but clearly delusional motivational speaker. It's been tried to be recreated numerous times. Don't believe me though, try it for yourself.

Now to apply something that doesn't even work with water to our precious LSD in just bonkers. The reason great LSD is thought to be charged by the "intentions" if the creator is quite simple. They spent more time and effort making the stuff. It's not fucking magic. It's science.

I'm not denying the power of positive thinking, and even the ability that can have to effect the way others perceive us and our health. It's just that everything logical in this "physical realm" or "illusion" is governed by these pesky atoms that don't seem to give a fuck what we think. They continue to behave in the same manner. Only particles in quantum mechanics seem to care whether they're being observed for some reason. (see the double slit experiment, Hawthorne effect, etc), but scientists are smashing these little fuckers and I bet any money they'll figure that out in the next 100 years too.


Exactly true; it may seem like magic, but its science.  LSD has many crazy properties like polymorphism and others that we don’t understand; as well, incipients in impure LSD crystal matrixes may cause dirty trips do to the adjunct nature of these incipients alongside LSD (i.e they are catalyzed by LSD).  These have not been scientifically explored at all, yet have been shown to be proven properties.

LtLurker said:
BlueMeanie25 said:
Assuming 9 out of 10 of you reading this have seen the doc. "What the bleep do we know?". In that doc they talk about how monks were able to focus different emotions towards petri-dishes of water while they froze, causing geometric shapes to appear. Negative emotions made basic "un-interesting" shapes and the more positive the emotion the more complicated or "beautiful" the shapes became. (used "" because they're subjective)




I only got this far. No No No No No NO!

First, that movie is garbage, go watch a debunk on it. One of the main people claims to be channeling aliens for her info, it's insane.

Second, the Frozen water test is incredibly stupid. When water Freezes, it freezes in a random pattern, this is why all snow flakes are unique. Freezing water in shallow dishes will always give unique patterns no matter the circumstance.

So for the rest of your question, no don't be silly. There's no charging things with intention or "energy".


The shapes are not a random pattern, it freezes in the pattern dictated by it’s conditions sorrounding it, just like every other crystalline pattern.  The question is aren’t “beautiful” and “ugly”, or “bad” and “good” just arbitrary terms we’ve come up with?  Whose moral absoluteism is his studies being measured by?  None, because moral absoluteism doesnt exist in an objective manner.

Eclipse3130 said:
Ignorance is bliss
It's science now a days.. you can even have crystals electronically scanned to perceive their auric (energetic) field.

If you work with enough crystals, especially LSD you will understand this eventually. It's very easy to tell apart impure LSD to pure LSD simply within the experience, and physical impurities have no known psychological effects, down to the simple fact of "what you put in you get out" known as intention.

But I'm preaching to the choir here

Just shoes how much people haven't found the Pure yet, hopefully one day :smile:

:goodluckwiththat:


Regardless of this crystal stuff, I’ve worked with probaly dozens of dozens batches of crystal LSD over many, many years - long before the grass valley fluff and china mass operations started - and I completely agree its easy to tell apart pure and impure LSD from the experience (or real LSD-25 or another lysergamide).  Whether it’s polymorphism, incipients, cytokinetics, impurities catalyzed by LSD etc. that causes these negative effects, we will not know - as all studied LSD in government ordinated tests is actually LSD-25 and clean of impurities.

Nutt and Nichols have said the LSD they made is the purest ever tested.

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: BlueMeanie25]
    #25032604 -

No, but it may affect your mindset, as in the crucial set and setting, which could in turn affect your trip.

Also that documentary is BS. Thoughts don't affect the formation of ice crystal.

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #25032644 -

It is a very interesting subject of discussion, that's for sure.

I have experimented with Kirlian Photography (photofield energy scanner) with basic quartz crystals, before and after "charging" them with my own intention and energy and seen physical changes on-screen.

If I had a couple grams of LSD crystal I'm sure you could see each individual frequency and vibration.



https://www.kacha-stones.com/kirlian_photography.htm





--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

Edited by Eclipse3130 (03/02/18 01:56 AM)

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Eclipse3130] * 3
    #25032800 -

This should be in the mysticism section, people there love that kind of stuff.

Harm reduction should not be based upon superstition, so even if you don't believe in anything, making a big deal here about crystals recording "bad vibes" from very bad people who may handle "drugs" and suggesting it is "proven" (NOT TRUE, not even an alternate truth for Trumpians) by high voltage electrical field photography is not helpful.

Set, setting, and dose affect your trip -
not vibes from people you never met who may have touched the crystal from which your blotters were made.

Set, setting, and dose include a wide scope of influences - none of which are make believe.

Correction: set, which is mindset, can be polluted by superstition paranoia and doubt, so we should not lean towards that direction.
Correction: setting - which includes your environment and people around you - can be polluted by wrong ideas, and this wrong idea is actually about paranoia and doubt transference, so we really don't want to provide that in our environment.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25032959 -

That's a picture of energy alright, electricity. Not mystical magic energy.

It's pretty much a more expensive version of this.


A Plasma ball takes advantage of gases in the sphere for a brighter effect, but it's an electrode distributing electricity creating plasma. You're doin the same thing, just putting electricity through a rock without a dome then calling the visible Plasma "Energy" instead & adding in all kinds of magic properties you can't possibly demonstrate or prove. The amount of or appearence of the "Energy" is different because the conditions around your rock are different, ie humidity.


I just wanna add, I continue to debate cause the people you show in your vids, are taking advantage of people. These are snake oil salesman. I hate seeing decent well meaning people like yourself get suckered into this non sense. Little hobbies are cool, the pictures look cool, but it scares me how serious some people take this shit and waste so much money on these charlatans. Not to mention what adverse decisions people make based on these beliefs like magic healing instead of going to Doc. It's not always harmless.



--------------------
Space Ape Project
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Edited by LtLurker (03/02/18 08:06 AM)

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25033079 -

You're right mysticism section would get a kick.

Some people just don't believe in the spiritual side of the world, and there's nothing wrong with that, not trying to convince anyone of anything, but many people outside of this forum including chemists agree with this form of thinking, we have spiritual people and non-spiritual people and both make the world go round :smile:

We are in the age of Science discovering Spirit anyway, so we will all meet on a commonground eventually :smile: if you look for the information it's already out there, but of course cognitive dissonance(an inner emotional-clash) will occur in most individuals who are close-minded in their beliefs rather than open-minded to an array of the infinite possibilities within this World.

"Magic is just Science yet to be understood"

I appreciate all the feedback


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #25033274 -

redgreenvines said:
Harm reduction should not be based upon superstition, so even if you don't believe in anything, making a big deal here about crystals recording "bad vibes" from very bad people who may handle "drugs" and suggesting it is "proven" (NOT TRUE, not even an alternate truth for Trumpians) by high voltage electrical field photography is not helpful.

Set, setting, and dose affect your trip -
not vibes from people you never met who may have touched the crystal from which your blotters were made.


This.

It's tempting to just let this go as a bunch of hippies talking about mysticism who will never be convinced that they're full of it. And maybe it's hard to imagine a scenario where if no one challenges the superstition being referenced here and someone eventually came across it and believed it, that they could come to harm.

But it's the principle of the thing. The beauty of science is it demands demonstrable, reproducible results. When we lower that threshold and allow superstition based on the albeit tempting argument of "Well, science just hasn't reached the point of being able to explain this or confirm my argument yet" is when bad shit starts to happen.

I think a large part of the reason the tide is starting to turn in favor of legalization of all sorts of different drugs, from weed to psychedelics to empathogens, is the fact-based approach so many people have taken and the monumental effort of weeding out and fighting superstition and misinformation with regard to drugs. I firmly believe these efforts have saved countless lives, bettered the lives of users, and given us a hope of having the clusterfuck scourge of prohibition that ruins countless people's lives perhaps finally ended, or at least lessened.

It's really hard for me to read this thread and not think that these are the sorts of arguments and superstitious acceptance that have led my cousin to believe her kids shouldn't be vaccinated or they'll become autistic, and that if they get cavities she shouldn't take them to the evil dentist, but instead brush their teeth with a toothpaste made from wholistic, naturopathic ground-up bones and the toothpaste will heal the cavities.

Every time we let ourselves accept arguments like these, we take one tiny step backwards, from shareable, reproducible, informed knowledge to superstition and gullibility. Will this thread ruin someone's life or lead them to have a terrible trip because they're trying to somehow account for the vibes of the everyone that's been in contact with their acid? Probably not. But there's already so much misinformation out there regarding psychedelics, and plenty of less-than-informed people who will gobble it all up without question. Why should we add more to it?

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: AzurianBlue]
    #25033392 -

If crystals have energy LSD is a salt and as such its lattice can be broken if dissolved in a solvent. If the lattice is broken and it is ions in solution does it still absorb energy? It is not a crystal in this form, far from it, crystal is a repeating chemical structure a solution is not.


--------------------
Promise me to pass the time. Dance with me on plastic tears. Kiss me, we won’t feel alone, till morning when we disappear.


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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Violet Wizard]
    #25034769 -

The truth and real question is, is the world of LSD really that non-interesting for multiple different batches to have different "qualities" and it's all simply based on set, setting and dosage?

If anything seems far fetched to me, it's that.

There's reason why back in the early days families would have people do "thumbprints" of crystal LSD, before they even let you touch or distribute their crystals, it's because they knew how pure and sensitive the crystal was, they needed to make sure you were clear of all negative karma and intent.

Why do chemists play certain Hz music during their crystallization process, why did Owsley chant over his batches? Why does purity matter if there are no known psychologically active impurities? Why did Nick Sand create his famous "orange sunshine" and called it the "purest and most blessed batch" and in turn, everyone had amazingly divine experiences on it?

I'm not here to convince anyone, I just choose to stand on this side based off my experiences. And I respect everyone else's stance, we are free to agree to disagree.

:smile:


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Can one empathically affect liquid LSD? [Re: Eclipse3130] * 1
    #25035513 -

You are picking a cause for perceived differences and shaping it to fit without any evidence for your stated cause. Even when the methodology to demonstrate the existence of the cause is just a parlor trick with electricity. That's the opposite of science.

People have their rituals and it only means anything if they have a Testable Hypothesis and go through Controlled Experiments that other scientists can Replicate, and Confirm or Falsify the results. Those people didn't do any of that, it's not remotely science. Those are Anecdotes. None of those Procedures were submitted for peer review and passed.

What this is about is Standards of Evidence and Burden of Proof. Personal experience & anecdotes aren't worth anything, that's how people thought blood letting, animal sacrifices, and every other bone headed or dangerous idea were good ideas. You have to demonstrate the truth of the claim through the scientific process, that's what pushes us forward.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
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Current PF Tek
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