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InvisibleCitizen X
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Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 7,853
Loc: Djibouti
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #24592922 - 08/31/17 10:07 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

More bullshit being spewed

New York, March 22, 2017 -- US supermarkets' operating profits will grow at a fairly healthy rate again this year after a disappointing 2016, Moody's Investors Service says in a new report. Profitability last year was crimped by an unprecedented level of deflation for an economy not in recession, but as downward pressure on prices wanes, things will pick up in the latter half of this year.

"We expect the US supermarket sector's operating profits to grow about 8% in 2017, compared with an approximate 5% drop last year," said Moody's analyst Mickey Chadha. "As deflation subsides, growth will be skewed toward the second half of the year, driven by improvement at Albertsons, The Kroger Company and Whole Foods Market."

Contrary to last year, when the US Department of Agriculture estimates "food-at-home" prices declined 1.3%, Moody's expects prices to rise about 1.0% in 2017, relieving some of the pressure on supermarkets' top-line. Operating profit declined about 5% in 2016 and was below the rating agency's expectations as the predominantly fixed cost structure of the sector exacerbated the negative impact of deflation.

Sales of natural and organic foods, as well private-label food products, will keep rising, Moody's says. With more people opting to eat healthier meals at home, the US natural and organic food market is growing in the high single digits annually. Meanwhile, private-label products are today vying with their name-brand counterparts with splashier packaging and a growing number of organic and all-natural options, at prices on average 23% cheaper than national brands.

And unlike other sectors of the US retail market, brick-and-mortar grocers aren't especially threatened by online competitors. Online food purchases have gained in popularity, but still accounted for less than 1% of the US retail food market in 2016. Moody's expects the overall food retail market to grow on average 2%-3% annually and online penetration to be less than 3% of the total food retail market in the next 5 years. Nevertheless, the rating agency does expect further consolidation in an over-stored industry, as regional chains look to extend their geographic reach and unprofitable stores are divested or closed.

Moody's research subscribers can access this report, "Companies Will Perform Better in 2017 as Deflationary Pressure Wanes," at https://www.moodys.com/researchdocumentcontentpage.aspx?docid=PBC_1060546.

NOTE TO JOURNALISTS ONLY: For more information, please call one of our global press information hotlines: New York +1-212-553-0376, London +44-20-7772-5456, Tokyo +813-5408-4110, Hong Kong +852-3758-1350, Sydney +61-2-9270-8141, Mexico City 001-888-779-5833, São Paulo 0800-891-2518, or Buenos Aires 0800-666-3506. You can also email us at mediarelations@moodys.com or visit our web site at www.moodys.com.

This publication does not announce a credit rating action. For any credit ratings referenced in this publication, please see the ratings tab on the issuer/entity page on www.moodys.com for the most updated credit rating action information and rating history.

Manoj Chadha
VP - Senior Credit Officer
Corporate Finance Group
Moody's Investors Service, Inc.
250 Greenwich Street
New York, NY 10007
U.S.A.
JOURNALISTS: 212-553-0376
SUBSCRIBERS: 212-553-1653

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-US-supermarkets-profits-to-rise-again-in-2017-as--PR_363981

Be pro-people, why is that hard? Pro-life awesome, pro-business great, work on the pro-people


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24592934 - 08/31/17 10:14 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Just wait until the shit hits the fan, I live in a affluent small town but the state is broke. The state is now cutting off the towns/cities for education money by over 50% in many cases. 

This means cuts for the public school systems, there is no fix here. It's called a lower standard of living.

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InvisibleCitizen X
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Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 7,853
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Citizen X]
    #24592937 - 08/31/17 10:15 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Here's something, yes there was a decline by a third in grocery store prices the first time since 1967

Prices of supermarket items declined 1.3% last year, compared to the year before, says the Agriculture Department's Economic Research Service. It was the first annual decline since 1967. Just about every family will feel the impact since weekly household grocery expenses in 2016 were $107.34, according to the Food Marketing Institute.

What does that marker say about wages going up, down or staying the same? Derp
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/03/20/supermarkets-grocery-store-food-prices/99117710/


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Citizen X]
    #24592986 - 08/31/17 10:33 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

X, if they were making 3% and their profit went down 5% last year and up 8% this year, then they are making how much now? Maybe 3.1%, try to wrap your head around those grown up concepts. Now tell us how hard you will work if your employer wants to cut your pay by just 10%. He doesn't want you to work for free or pay him, just take a tiny cut, do you accept it? We know the answer to that, you are entitled to your pay and more. But you want them to take a huge cut, work for nothing or lose money perhaps because they are rich and not entitled but you are poor and are entitled. What happens when you get what you ask for but lose your job? Whose fault is it?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Posts: 21,989
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Stonehenge] * 3
    #24593001 - 08/31/17 10:36 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yes but you are trying to explain to 6 year olds why they can't have candy for all meals instead of real food. You are trying to explain to grown up 6 year olds there is no santa but they refuse to accept that fact and will riot if their demands are not met.

Supermarkets are lucky if they make 3% profit overall. Many make less than that. Labor is a large part of their costs, perhaps 40% looking at the whole food chain. So if labor goes up a lot then their 3% profit turns into a 30% loss but they are supposed to just suck it up and keep going because its their tough luck, right? A child will say yes because I have a right to live well and the super market owners do not. They are rich and can afford to subsidize my lifestyle.





This is why we can't take you seriously.  You aren't a serious person.  Your bullshit arguments are not convincing, but maybe if you keep repeating them, someone will be gullible enough to buy what you're selling.


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Invisiblerelic
of a bygone era
Male

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,623
Loc: the right coast
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #24593050 - 08/31/17 10:53 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
> if it is federally mandated that ALL businesses everywhere must raise their min wage there is no low wage haven to which they can run.

Actually there are many such havens in other countries and usa business has been offshoring for a long time. This has sent many local jobs overseas and along with illegal immigration has lead to the decline of wages in this country. It has also lead to true unemployment being at very high levels.




by and large the ones that have been doing that are the ones that have cumulative corporate payroll in the 100's of millions of dollars.  they have the room to distribute some of that down to the ones producing their products but don't and won't.  fuck em, let em go, the bunch of unamerican greedy bitches.  they should have a little more care for regular americans, cut corp payroll by 20%, and reinvest that into the pockets of labor.

having said that, i was talking specifically about small to medium sized businesses, the ones that people have been saying will suffer the most from a min wage increase.  the same small businesses that produced a little less than half of all private non-farm GDP as of about ten years ago.


Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Rather than address the real problems which are the illegals plus offshoring, left wingers want  some simple band aid fix. They think a federal min wage will magically overcome those facts. Instead it will increase offshoring and create more incentives for illegals to come.




i'm pretty sure i've seen most of the regulars here--even your "left wingers"--advocate for punishing companies that employ illegal labor.  make the penalties stiff and make enforcement real.  as for offshoring, well, you know what i think about those fucks: to hell with em.  we need more people and companies in america that give a fuck about regular people.  the way we promote corporate greedy assholes as some pillars of society (you didn't do this in the message i'm replying to) when all they do is bleed labor dry until they start bleeding labor in some far away country is sickening.  seriously, fuck them and the jets the fly away in.

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Some companies in some areas and in some industries can indeed afford to pay more and will. Those will be the ones with mostly high level workers, IT companies, design, management, engineering and so on. The companies that employ large numbers of low level workers can't afford it and will face drastic decisions. Do they cut staff, raise prices, do both of those things or close shop?




don't forget service companies.  all seven of the companies i referenced earlier are service companies and we make very good money while paying our employees very well.

as to your last question, the answer is yes.  do whatever they need to do but the status quo is not working.  in my 20 years as a business owner i've found that there is almost always a way to trim waste.

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24593101 - 08/31/17 11:08 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yes but you are trying to explain to 6 year olds why they can't have candy for all meals instead of real food. You are trying to explain to grown up 6 year olds there is no santa but they refuse to accept that fact and will riot if their demands are not met.

Supermarkets are lucky if they make 3% profit overall. Many make less than that. Labor is a large part of their costs, perhaps 40% looking at the whole food chain. So if labor goes up a lot then their 3% profit turns into a 30% loss but they are supposed to just suck it up and keep going because its their tough luck, right? A child will say yes because I have a right to live well and the super market owners do not. They are rich and can afford to subsidize my lifestyle.





This is why we can't take you seriously.  You aren't a serious person.  Your bullshit arguments are not convincing, but maybe if you keep repeating them, someone will be gullible enough to buy what you're selling.




No, his argument isn't bullshit, he's actually using real numbers to make his points.

What should be the profit margin that suits your needs, what if higher wages leads to unprofitable years, then what?

What if we experience a deep recession and sales fall off the cliff, then what?

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InvisibleCitizen X
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Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 7,853
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #24593103 - 08/31/17 11:08 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
X, if they were making 3% and their profit went down 5% last year and up 8% this year, then they are making how much now? Maybe 3.1%, try to wrap your head around those grown up concepts. Now tell us how hard you will work if your employer wants to cut your pay by just 10%. He doesn't want you to work for free or pay him, just take a tiny cut, do you accept it? We know the answer to that, you are entitled to your pay and more. But you want them to take a huge cut, work for nothing or lose money perhaps because they are rich and not entitled but you are poor and are entitled. What happens when you get what you ask for but lose your job? Whose fault is it?




As I've said many times before, the market decides this. The great magical system that will fix everything.

I don't want to work for a rip off merchant. If my business fails because I can't make payroll that's life. It's my fault, ok it's my fault. Move on big guy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,749
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 1
    #24593114 - 08/31/17 11:13 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Even if you do agree with stoney, itd be better for you if you pretended you didnt.


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24593206 - 08/31/17 11:50 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if you do agree with stoney, itd be better for you if you pretended you didnt.




I know you're joking, but anyone who's making a valid point and it's being called "bullshit" because they disagree with it based on ideology instead of economic facts, I'm going to call it out. :shrug:

I really think some around here would learn a lot if they actually looked at the books of small businesses and see exactly how hard it is to stay in business. You guys act like one good year means someone is getting rich, nothing could be further from the truth.

Showing up to work and just punching in and punching out, and cashing the check at the end of the week really doesn't provide people with the guts of how a business works in the real world.

Or how about investing in companies and see how easy it is to get rich as a shareholder, look at the numbers and all the risks associated with owning something, some you guys act like it's get rich city, it really isn't.

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InvisibleCyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman]
    #24593289 - 08/31/17 12:38 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if you do agree with stoney, itd be better for you if you pretended you didnt.




I know you're joking, but anyone who's making a valid point and it's being called "bullshit" because they disagree with it based on ideology instead of economic facts, I'm going to call it out. :shrug:

I really think some around here would learn a lot if they actually looked at the books of small businesses and see exactly how hard it is to stay in business. You guys act like one good year means someone is getting rich, nothing could be further from the truth.

Showing up to work and just punching in and punching out, and cashing the check at the end of the week really doesn't provide people with the guts of how a business works in the real world.

Or how about investing in companies and see how easy it is to get rich as a shareholder, look at the numbers and all the risks associated with owning something, some you guys act like it's get rich city, it really isn't.



If can't afford to pay your staff a decent wage your a shit businessman.

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Offlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24593339 - 08/31/17 01:13 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if you do agree with stoney, itd be better for you if you pretended you didnt.




I know you're joking, but anyone who's making a valid point and it's being called "bullshit" because they disagree with it based on ideology instead of economic facts, I'm going to call it out. :shrug:

I really think some around here would learn a lot if they actually looked at the books of small businesses and see exactly how hard it is to stay in business. You guys act like one good year means someone is getting rich, nothing could be further from the truth.

Showing up to work and just punching in and punching out, and cashing the check at the end of the week really doesn't provide people with the guts of how a business works in the real world.

Or how about investing in companies and see how easy it is to get rich as a shareholder, look at the numbers and all the risks associated with owning something, some you guys act like it's get rich city, it really isn't.



If can't afford to pay your staff a decent wage your a shit businessman.




Come on, what kind of logic is that?  There's only so much businessmen can control.

Many businesses don't even make any profit, why don't you become a business owner to tell us how easy it is to make so much money that you pay your workers above the market rate.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,749
Loc: 'Merica Flag
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 1
    #24593356 - 08/31/17 01:22 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

The odds are stacked against small businesses.

Is that the fault of the workers, or the oligarchs?


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InvisibleCyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman]
    #24593363 - 08/31/17 01:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Even if you do agree with stoney, itd be better for you if you pretended you didnt.




I know you're joking, but anyone who's making a valid point and it's being called "bullshit" because they disagree with it based on ideology instead of economic facts, I'm going to call it out. :shrug:

I really think some around here would learn a lot if they actually looked at the books of small businesses and see exactly how hard it is to stay in business. You guys act like one good year means someone is getting rich, nothing could be further from the truth.

Showing up to work and just punching in and punching out, and cashing the check at the end of the week really doesn't provide people with the guts of how a business works in the real world.

Or how about investing in companies and see how easy it is to get rich as a shareholder, look at the numbers and all the risks associated with owning something, some you guys act like it's get rich city, it really isn't.



If can't afford to pay your staff a decent wage your a shit businessman.




Come on, what kind of logic is that?  There's only so much businessmen can control.

Many businesses don't even make any profit, why don't you become a business owner to tell us how easy it is to make so much money that you pay your workers above the market rate.



Qman if go to restauraunt and order a steak and it's burned I have a right to complain. Low wages are the burned steak.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,989
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman]
    #24593529 - 08/31/17 02:40 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Yes but you are trying to explain to 6 year olds why they can't have candy for all meals instead of real food. You are trying to explain to grown up 6 year olds there is no santa but they refuse to accept that fact and will riot if their demands are not met.

Supermarkets are lucky if they make 3% profit overall. Many make less than that. Labor is a large part of their costs, perhaps 40% looking at the whole food chain. So if labor goes up a lot then their 3% profit turns into a 30% loss but they are supposed to just suck it up and keep going because its their tough luck, right? A child will say yes because I have a right to live well and the super market owners do not. They are rich and can afford to subsidize my lifestyle.





This is why we can't take you seriously.  You aren't a serious person.  Your bullshit arguments are not convincing, but maybe if you keep repeating them, someone will be gullible enough to buy what you're selling.




No, his argument isn't bullshit, he's actually using real numbers to make his points.






where?


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24593552 - 08/31/17 02:50 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The odds are stacked against small businesses.

Is that the fault of the workers, or the oligarchs?




Small businesses once thrived in the US, why that isn't the case today is an interesting discussion for sure.

"Is that the fault of the workers"

Not at all.

"or the oligarchs"

The elite don't like sharing their markets with individual entrepreneurs, therefore they have created all sorts of hurdles to discourage that type of competition.

When you ship work overseas and flood the labor markets with illegals, small businesses take the hit as their consumers have less purchasing power.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 2
    #24594225 - 08/31/17 07:18 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
...what is so different about the U.S. and Australian economies?  What economic fundamentals make this inevitable?  Why is a cook worth $20 over there, but only $10 here?  Do they charge twice as much for the food on that side of the ocean?



There's so many different reasons, you don't see it?  There's the supply and demand of labor, there's the cost of doing business, economic growth rates, rates of taxation, different currencies, etc.



I question how much you've analyzed this.  Unemployment is lower in the US than Australia.

Have you considered the fact that Australia is more socialist than the US?  As are pretty much all the countries that rank ahead of us in median wealth?

Median wealth
Australia              219,505
Luxembourg      182,768
Belgium            148,141
France              141,850
Italy                  138,653
United Kingdom 111,524
Japan                110,294
Iceland              104,733
Switzerland          95,916
Finland                95,095
Norway                92,859
Canada                90,252
Netherlands          83,631
New Zealand        76,607
Ireland                  75,573
Spain                    63,306
Denmark              57,675
Austria                  57,450
Greece                  53,937
Sweden                52,677
Germany              49,370
Slovenia                44,932
United States      44,911
Poland                    9,109

Quote:

qman said:
Did you forget they also turn around the boats of migrants that try to invade their homeland?  I wonder if that has something to do with the higher standard of living. :rofl2:



I wonder too, and I keep waiting for you to post any evidence that this makes a difference.  It sure isn't helping people in Poland (see above data).

Quote:

qman said:
Australia is in a very good position, tons of natural resources, a low population that's basically homogeneous.



Do you have a source showing that countries with a homogenous population do better, or is this just more racism?

Quote:

qman said:
You do realize that mandating higher wages that kill businesses makes the mandate counterproductive? 

Your solution of letting the market dictate what businesses should survive and then you will work for them at the higher wages is pie in the sky thinking.



As balls already pointed out, we have real world evidence from cites that raised their minimum wage that show it's not increasing unemployment.

Quote:

qman said:
"Labor costs have been decreasing in that industry for decades"

You can thank technology and the excess pool of labor.



Except you still haven't shown there is an excess pool of labor in the US (if you can please do).  The unemployment rate in the US is very good right now, in spite of the fact that there we have dark skinned people here.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24595432 - 09/01/17 08:44 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
...what is so different about the U.S. and Australian economies?  What economic fundamentals make this inevitable?  Why is a cook worth $20 over there, but only $10 here?  Do they charge twice as much for the food on that side of the ocean?



There's so many different reasons, you don't see it?  There's the supply and demand of labor, there's the cost of doing business, economic growth rates, rates of taxation, different currencies, etc.



I question how much you've analyzed this.  Unemployment is lower in the US than Australia.

Have you considered the fact that Australia is more socialist than the US?  As are pretty much all the countries that rank ahead of us in median wealth?

Median wealth
Australia              219,505
Luxembourg      182,768
Belgium            148,141
France              141,850
Italy                  138,653
United Kingdom 111,524
Japan                110,294
Iceland              104,733
Switzerland          95,916
Finland                95,095
Norway                92,859
Canada                90,252
Netherlands          83,631
New Zealand        76,607
Ireland                  75,573
Spain                    63,306
Denmark              57,675
Austria                  57,450
Greece                  53,937
Sweden                52,677
Germany              49,370
Slovenia                44,932
United States      44,911
Poland                    9,109

Quote:

qman said:
Did you forget they also turn around the boats of migrants that try to invade their homeland?  I wonder if that has something to do with the higher standard of living. :rofl2:



I wonder too, and I keep waiting for you to post any evidence that this makes a difference.  It sure isn't helping people in Poland (see above data).

Quote:

qman said:
Australia is in a very good position, tons of natural resources, a low population that's basically homogeneous.



Do you have a source showing that countries with a homogenous population do better, or is this just more racism?

Quote:

qman said:
You do realize that mandating higher wages that kill businesses makes the mandate counterproductive? 

Your solution of letting the market dictate what businesses should survive and then you will work for them at the higher wages is pie in the sky thinking.



As balls already pointed out, we have real world evidence from cites that raised their minimum wage that show it's not increasing unemployment.

Quote:

qman said:
"Labor costs have been decreasing in that industry for decades"

You can thank technology and the excess pool of labor.



Except you still haven't shown there is an excess pool of labor in the US (if you can please do).  The unemployment rate in the US is very good right now, in spite of the fact that there we have dark skinned people here.




"homogenous populations do better"

All you your favorite socialist nations are homogenous, that was my point.

"cities that raised their minimum wage"

Like I said, more time and various business cycles are needed to see how effective or non-effective the policy turns out, if they hiked before a recession and jobs were lost it wouldn't have been a good indication of the policy.

"the unemployment rate in the US is very good right now"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/business/economy/jobs-report-unemployment.html?mcubz=1

"wage growth remains anemic" 

That's strange consider how low the unemployment is today.

"many worker remain on the sidelines. The so-called participation rate in August was in-changed at 62.9 percent"

Fal, the Federal Reserve can't even hike interest rates anymore with the "unemployment rate" at 4.4%, what does that tell you?

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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24595774 - 09/01/17 11:14 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
lol natural market forces are what got us here.



that is outright hysterical that you actually belief that. LOL

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,749
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 8 minutes
Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24595785 - 09/01/17 11:17 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yeah i forgot the industrialized world was built under something other than laissez faire capitalism.


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