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InvisibleCitizen X
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Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests?
    #24584955 - 08/28/17 11:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello all, we have a wonderful example of the left vs right battle over increasing wages.

Keeping minimum wage at $8.25 since 2010 - how can this be a good thing? Please help me see the republican light. Here's a quote and link

Gov. Bruce Rauner vetoed a bill Friday that would have raised Illinois' minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2022, arguing it would hurt businesses and ultimately reduce jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-rauner-minimum-wage-deadline-0826-biz-20170825-story.html

Pro-business, pro-life but pro-people is a where I see the disconnect


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #24584965 - 08/28/17 12:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

And this Governor makes 70,000 - 150,000 a year not including bribes.
But he doesn't want anyone else making a living wage. :lol:


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InvisibleetuHad4
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Tmethyl]
    #24584975 - 08/28/17 12:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The Left thinks their McDonalds jobs are worth 15HR$LOL.  Looks like he is doing the right thing. Maybe he did his research like you should have.

Seattle's $15 minimum wage may be hurting workers, report finds
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/06/27/report-finds-seattles-15-minimum-wage-may-hurting-workers/431424001/

Hicks: Seattle's minimum wage experiment failed
http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2017/07/06/hicks-seattles-minimum-wage-experiment-failed/455215001/

A New Study Has Some Bad News for Backers of a Minimum Wage Hike
http://fortune.com/2017/06/26/seattle-minimum-wage-policy-study/

Washington's Failed Minimum Wage Experiment
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/05/01/washingtons-failed-minimum-wage-experiment/#768d1aa852c9

Researchers 'Prove' Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Kills Jobs--but Ignore the Existence of Amazon
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/does-a-15-minimum-wage-mean-lost-jobs-researchers-in-seattle-and-berkeley-duke-.html


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Citizen X]
    #24584979 - 08/28/17 12:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
Hello all, we have a wonderful example of the left vs right battle over increasing wages.

Keeping minimum wage at $8.25 since 2010 - how can this be a good thing? Please help me see the republican light. Here's a quote and link

Gov. Bruce Rauner vetoed a bill Friday that would have raised Illinois' minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2022, arguing it would hurt businesses and ultimately reduce jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-rauner-minimum-wage-deadline-0826-biz-20170825-story.html

Pro-business, pro-life but pro-people is a where I see the disconnect




Do you really think doubling a wage mandate in just 5 years is a economically responsible policy? There are major consequences to such an extreme measure.

If hiking the minimum wage was the secret to economic prosperity, don't you think the shitholes of the world would have figured that out by now?


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InvisibleetuHad4
Meh
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Registered: 11/22/16
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman]
    #24584983 - 08/28/17 12:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)






Do you really think doubling a wage mandate in just 5 years is a economically responsible policy? There are major consequences to such an extreme measure.

If hiking the minimum wage was the secret to economic prosperity, don't you think the shitholes of the world would have figured that out by now?




Hit the Nail on the HEAD Good work.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: etuHad4] * 3
    #24584991 - 08/28/17 12:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

etuHad4 said:
The Left thinks their McDonalds jobs are worth 15HR$LOL.  Looks like he is doing the right thing. Maybe he did his research like you should have.

Seattle's $15 minimum wage may be hurting workers, report finds
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/06/27/report-finds-seattles-15-minimum-wage-may-hurting-workers/431424001/

Hicks: Seattle's minimum wage experiment failed
http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2017/07/06/hicks-seattles-minimum-wage-experiment-failed/455215001/

A New Study Has Some Bad News for Backers of a Minimum Wage Hike
http://fortune.com/2017/06/26/seattle-minimum-wage-policy-study/

Washington's Failed Minimum Wage Experiment
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/05/01/washingtons-failed-minimum-wage-experiment/#768d1aa852c9

Researchers 'Prove' Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Kills Jobs--but Ignore the Existence of Amazon
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/does-a-15-minimum-wage-mean-lost-jobs-researchers-in-seattle-and-berkeley-duke-.html




You missed the thread where we debunked all that.


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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: etuHad4] * 4
    #24585012 - 08/28/17 12:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Cost of living is expensive.



People who think you can live off of $8/hr is lost. 


The price of everything keeps increasing, but wages don't?



  :rolleyes:


Right.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24585022 - 08/28/17 12:42 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

etuHad4 said:
The Left thinks their McDonalds jobs are worth 15HR$LOL.  Looks like he is doing the right thing. Maybe he did his research like you should have.

Seattle's $15 minimum wage may be hurting workers, report finds
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/06/27/report-finds-seattles-15-minimum-wage-may-hurting-workers/431424001/

Hicks: Seattle's minimum wage experiment failed
http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2017/07/06/hicks-seattles-minimum-wage-experiment-failed/455215001/

A New Study Has Some Bad News for Backers of a Minimum Wage Hike
http://fortune.com/2017/06/26/seattle-minimum-wage-policy-study/

Washington's Failed Minimum Wage Experiment
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2015/05/01/washingtons-failed-minimum-wage-experiment/#768d1aa852c9

Researchers 'Prove' Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Kills Jobs--but Ignore the Existence of Amazon
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/does-a-15-minimum-wage-mean-lost-jobs-researchers-in-seattle-and-berkeley-duke-.html




You missed the thread where we debunked all that.




It's an ongoing study that needs to be examined in the various business and economic cycles that happen throughout the years.

What happens during growth periods, recessions and other factors that aren't taken into account.

If hiking the minimum wage right before a recession turned out poor results (5 or less years) in the short term, that wouldn't be a very good measure on the policy.

Do you know what I like to see higher wages from?  Tight labor markets and strong economic growth, not from politicians.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: Big Worm] * 1
    #24585026 - 08/28/17 12:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Big Worm said:
Cost of living is expensive.



People who think you can live off of $8/hr is lost. 


The price of everything keeps increasing, but wages don't?




You can thank globalization and illegal/legal immigration.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 4
    #24585047 - 08/28/17 12:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Of course all those things have an effect, but you can't tell me that giving workers some extra breadcrumbs is bad. Especially when it means theyll have disposable income so they can actually prop up our shit consumer economy.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #24585065 - 08/28/17 12:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Of course all those things have an effect, but you can't tell me that giving workers some extra breadcrumbs is bad. Especially when it means theyll have disposable income so they can actually prop up our shit consumer economy.




I'm not against the higher minimum wage for most parts of the US since it's at a near all-time low in real terms. I guess the debate could begin with how much higher from the current rate.

With that being said, it's NOT a fix for the massive wealth and income inequality we are experiencing today.

We need to see wage growth from natural market forces, not government mandates.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 6
    #24585079 - 08/28/17 01:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

lol natural market forces are what got us here.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24585082 - 08/28/17 01:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
lol natural market forces are what got us here.




If you want to call outsourcing jobs into third world nations, currency manipulation, importing cheap illegal and legal labor "natural market forces", then you would be correct.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 7
    #24585120 - 08/28/17 01:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well yeah, the effects of globalization is due to natural market forces.

This is what happens when businesses find cheaper ways of doing business. Workers suffer.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #24585137 - 08/28/17 01:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Well yeah, the effects of globalization is due to natural market forces.

This is what happens when businesses find cheaper ways of doing business. Workers suffer.




If globalization didn't actually use currency manipulation, I would consider it "natural market forces".

There's nothing natural about developed economies having massive debt and huge trade deficits decade after decade without it balancing out like free markets are suppose to do.

There's nothing natural about the banking system making massive profits and then having the taxpayer bailing them out when their bets don't workout.

There's nothing natural about maintaining an open border to flood the domestic labor market, that's one the reasons to have a national border.

At the end of the day, crony capitalism isn't "natural market forces". :shrug:


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 2
    #24585248 - 08/28/17 02:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

how do you figure?


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Onlineqman
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24585345 - 08/28/17 03:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
how do you figure?




Crony capitalism isn't free market economics. Anytime the government interferes with the free market to benefit the very few, there's nothing free market about it.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #24585348 - 08/28/17 03:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Citizen X said:
Hello all, we have a wonderful example of the left vs right battle over increasing wages.

Keeping minimum wage at $8.25 since 2010 - how can this be a good thing? Please help me see the republican light. Here's a quote and link

Gov. Bruce Rauner vetoed a bill Friday that would have raised Illinois' minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2022, arguing it would hurt businesses and ultimately reduce jobs.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-rauner-minimum-wage-deadline-0826-biz-20170825-story.html

Pro-business, pro-life but pro-people is a where I see the disconnect




Do you really think doubling a wage mandate in just 5 years is a economically responsible policy? There are major consequences to such an extreme measure.

If hiking the minimum wage was the secret to economic prosperity, don't you think the shitholes of the world would have figured that out by now?




I think keeping wages at $8.25 for 7 years shows no prosperity at all, so I would have to say yes, let's try because nothing isn't working

Quote:

Big Worm said:
Cost of living is expensive.



People who think you can live off of $8/hr is lost. 


The price of everything keeps increasing, but wages don't?

  :rolleyes:

Right.



Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Of course all those things have an effect, but you can't tell me that giving workers some extra breadcrumbs is bad. Especially when it means theyll have disposable income so they can actually prop up our shit consumer economy.




Great points


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 3
    #24585395 - 08/28/17 03:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
how do you figure?




Crony capitalism isn't free market economics. Anytime the government interferes with the free market to benefit the very few, there's nothing free market about it.




Dude.

Capitalism has never existed without some degree of government 'interference.' Crony capitalism is what happens when you implement capitalism in human society. Its a system built explicitly on exploitation, you cant cry foul when people start getting exploited.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Republican Governor vetoes wage increase. Voting against your interests? [Re: qman] * 1
    #24585522 - 08/28/17 04:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
how do you figure?




Crony capitalism isn't free market economics. Anytime the government interferes with the free market to benefit the very few, there's nothing free market about it.




you didn't say free market, you said natural market forces.
There is no free market.  The market exists in the first place because of government.  Since we know that the accumulation of capital leads to greater power to influence the market and the government, it seems to me that crony capitalism must be the "natural" state of "free market" capitalism.

Edit: damn me for not just reading 2 more posts to see that Ecstatic already said that.


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