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 Enlil 
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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 Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders  [Re: LRG]
#24588487 - 08/29/17 05:10 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Because assuming facts are true and then using that assumption to form opinions about the world or people thereon is completely different from assuming facts are true for the purposes of determining whether or not there is a legal basis for a claim.
Example of the former:
I assume you killed your wife, so I sentence you to death.
As you can see, this assumption can lead to incorrect conclusions and unjust outcomes.
Example of the latter:
I assume that you killed your wife for purposes of determining whether or not your self-defense claim has merit.
See, in this case, we can analyze your self-defense claim without conflating it with the possibility that you didn't even kill the bitch in the first place. THAT is how the court analyzes a motion to dismiss. It tests the allegations of a pleading against the law to determine whether there is a case. Those allegations are assumed to be true even without any evidence at that point.
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 LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: Enlil]
#24588549 - 08/29/17 05:48 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Because assuming facts are true and then using that assumption to form opinions about the world or people thereon is completely different from assuming facts are true for the purposes of determining whether or not there is a legal basis for a claim.
Example of the former:
I assume you killed your wife, so I sentence you to death.
As you can see, this assumption can lead to incorrect conclusions and unjust outcomes.
Example of the latter:
I assume that you killed your wife for purposes of determining whether or not your self-defense claim has merit.
See, in this case, we can analyze your self-defense claim without conflating it with the possibility that you didn't even kill the bitch in the first place. THAT is how the court analyzes a motion to dismiss. It tests the allegations of a pleading against the law to determine whether there is a case. Those allegations are assumed to be true even without any evidence at that point.
But what about Trump colluding with Russia is true? He's just not under trial, that's the only difference.
I understand how and why the court dismissed the case, citing things like "subject-matter jurisdiction" and the plaintiffs not be victims of the DNCs apparent bias towards Clinton. I'm sure you read the whole thing but it goes on to state "acknowledged that the allegations were well pled." Now maybe that attorney was talking out his ass there, but I really doubt it. Which begs the question why would they dismiss a case where the allegations are assumed to be true and have public record of those allegations?
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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica 
Last seen: 17 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG] 1
#24588559 - 08/29/17 05:51 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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From what I understand, the court basically ruled that the DNC is under no obligation to play fair.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588571 - 08/29/17 05:54 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
But what about Trump colluding with Russia is true?
Who cares? It's irrelevant to this discussion.
Quote:
I understand how and why the court dismissed the case, citing things like "subject-matter jurisdiction" and the plaintiffs not be victims of the DNCs apparent bias towards Clinton. I'm sure you read the whole thing but it goes on to state "acknowledged that the allegations were well pled." Now maybe that attorney was talking out his ass there, but I really doubt it. Which begs the question why would they dismiss a case where the allegations are assumed to be true and have public record of those allegations?
Well pled. That means that he alleged what he needed to allege. That doesn't mean that the allegations are true or supported by any evidence whatsoever.
As I've said, the court didn't dismiss the case based on factual issues. It dismissed the case because what the DNC is accused of doing isn't illegal.
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Censoring opposing views since 2014.
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: Enlil]
#24588685 - 08/29/17 06:14 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Because assuming facts are true and then using that assumption to form opinions about the world or people thereon is completely different from assuming facts are true for the purposes of determining whether or not there is a legal basis for a claim.
Example of the former:
I assume you killed your wife, so I sentence you to death.
As you can see, this assumption can lead to incorrect conclusions and unjust outcomes.
Example of the latter:
I assume that you killed your wife for purposes of determining whether or not your self-defense claim has merit.
See, in this case, we can analyze your self-defense claim without conflating it with the possibility that you didn't even kill the bitch in the first place. THAT is how the court analyzes a motion to dismiss. It tests the allegations of a pleading against the law to determine whether there is a case. Those allegations are assumed to be true even without any evidence at that point.
So the only difference between your hypothetical is that Trump isn't on trial. As you can see these assumptions are based on hearsay and facts that are an asshair away from being circumstantial evidence. Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
LRG said:
But what about Trump colluding with Russia is true?
Who cares? It's irrelevant to this discussion.
Quote:
I understand how and why the court dismissed the case, citing things like "subject-matter jurisdiction" and the plaintiffs not be victims of the DNCs apparent bias towards Clinton. I'm sure you read the whole thing but it goes on to state "acknowledged that the allegations were well pled." Now maybe that attorney was talking out his ass there, but I really doubt it. Which begs the question why would they dismiss a case where the allegations are assumed to be true and have public record of those allegations?
Well pled. That means that he alleged what he needed to allege. That doesn't mean that the allegations are true or supported by any evidence whatsoever.
As I've said, the court didn't dismiss the case based on factual issues. It dismissed the case because what the DNC is accused of doing isn't illegal.
It ought to be. Sanders had plenty of supporters out there and ran a better campaign than Clinton did. The DNC derailed the Sanders campaign by misleading the public with false narratives. Unfortunately, it is not so black and white in the emails and falls under what I would consider to be very strong circumstantial evidence, but not dead to rights gotcha evidence.
How many young voters who supported Sanders will feel confident enough to vote again? I feel bad for people who find reasons like this to think their votes don't matter. If I were a Bernie supporter who voted for Clinton because he endorsed her, I would be livid.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
|
Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588690 - 08/29/17 06:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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 I can see that you didn't understand a word I said. Fair enough, carry on.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: Enlil]
#24588722 - 08/29/17 06:26 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
I can see that you didn't understand a word I said. Fair enough, carry on.
No. I get it. What the DNC did wasn't a considered a crime by the courts. Doesn't mean there couldn't be a statute that makes it illegal in the future. The DNC failed to give equal platforms to all their candidates by favoring one over the other. Sorta like... you know what never mind you're no fun.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
|
Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588753 - 08/29/17 06:33 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're just proving yourself to be more confused with every post. This was a civil matter. No "crime" was ever contemplated in any of it.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: Enlil]
#24588776 - 08/29/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
You're just proving yourself to be more confused with every post. This was a civil matter. No "crime" was ever contemplated in any of it.
And you're confusing the point where I said it should be a crime but it isn't. If it were a crime... the plaintiffs have a strong case.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
|
koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 7 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588780 - 08/29/17 06:44 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
I can see that you didn't understand a word I said. Fair enough, carry on.
No. I get it. What the DNC did wasn't a considered a crime by the courts. Doesn't mean there couldn't be a statute that makes it illegal in the future. The DNC failed to give equal platforms to all their candidates by favoring one over the other. Sorta like... you know what never mind you're no fun.
What crime? It was a lawsuit:
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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 7 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588792 - 08/29/17 06:46 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
You're just proving yourself to be more confused with every post. This was a civil matter. No "crime" was ever contemplated in any of it.
And you're confusing the point where I said it should be a crime but it isn't. If it were a crime... the plaintiffs have a strong case.
Rigging voting machines is already a crime. Are you suggesting that it should be a crime that workers at the DNC have personal preferences for a candidate? 
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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: koods]
#24588862 - 08/29/17 07:14 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
You're just proving yourself to be more confused with every post. This was a civil matter. No "crime" was ever contemplated in any of it.
And you're confusing the point where I said it should be a crime but it isn't. If it were a crime... the plaintiffs have a strong case.
Rigging voting machines is already a crime. Are you suggesting that it should be a crime that workers at the DNC have personal preferences for a candidate?
No. Derailing the campaign of a candidate on your platform so as to ensure another candidate's victory should be. It's influencing the results of an election, indirectly. The purpose of the DNC is to provide an equal platform to all candidates, which they clearly failed to do. What they did was extremely unethical, wrong, and YES borderline criminal.
The DNC has favorites based on popular opinions of the public not their own personal agendas or preferences.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
|
Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588867 - 08/29/17 07:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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The DNC is not a government organization, and they have no obligation to be fair to anyone.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: Enlil]
#24588935 - 08/29/17 07:39 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
The DNC is not a government organization, and they have no obligation to be fair to anyone.
"There are several core beliefs that tie our party together: Democrats believe that we're greater together than we are on our own—that this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot, everyone does their fair share, and everyone plays by the same rules." - What's the word I'm looking for? Steely? Irony? Yep that's it irony.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
|
Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24588943 - 08/29/17 07:41 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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NEWSFLASH: People are hypocrites! Film at Eleven.
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Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 17 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: Enlil] 1
#24588991 - 08/29/17 07:55 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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The Democrats are scumbags, every Sanders supporter expected this going in, to some degree.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG]
#24589003 - 08/29/17 08:04 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Nothing like that, actually.
How is it not like that?
Because the Democratic primary is an internal affair with which the DNC can pretty much do whatever they want.
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LRG
Supernaut
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: chibiabos]
#24589014 - 08/29/17 08:08 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said:
Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Nothing like that, actually.
How is it not like that?
Because the Democratic primary is an internal affair with which the DNC can pretty much do whatever they want.
And the MSM is what exactly? It is sort of like collusion delusion.
--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!
"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous
"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
|
chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: LRG] 1
#24589052 - 08/29/17 08:26 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Something that neoconservatives like to bitch about.
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koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 7 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Court Admits DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schulz Rigged Primaries Against Sanders [Re: The Ecstatic]
#24589053 - 08/29/17 08:26 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
The Democrats are scumbags, every Sanders supporter expected this going in, to some degree.
To be fair, he wasn't a democrat until he wanted their money.
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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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