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 Ferather
Mycological
 
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom 
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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 Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data  [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24559908 - 08/17/17 08:46 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I didn't think dried tissue would work, but nice attempt anyhow. I've never used "manure tea" but I bet it has bacteria in it.
Also, it looks like you boiled off far too much water, it looks very thick, it should not make blob formations.
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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 Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24560068 - 08/17/17 10:22 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yea, kinda. But it also because of I didn't strain the CaCO3 maybe, ehe. I'm pretty sure in this one does not have any bacteria contamination. However 2 out of 4 plates have bacteria, but I bet they're from the dried caps because the blotch only occur in them. The other one plate doesn't have any growth at the moment but I plan to leave it as is and wait. What do you think about the growth inside though?? It is circular as far as I can tell, possible mycelium?
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24560477 - 08/17/17 01:25 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can try the toothpick method mentioned by TA, and make true T-Gel and no adaptations.
Go with Recipe (B) as soluble nutrients are optional (as stated), and use none.
A pressure cooker and SAB-flowhood are optional, but suggested.
---
Recipe for just microwaving (simple pasteurizing):
Recipe (B): 100g Extract, 2.5g Agar, 0.2g 240B Gelatin, 0.1g Soluble nutrients < Optional.
Extract: 125g > Boiling hot water, 8g > CaCO3 powder, 1 > Black tea bag.
Stew the tea bag into the hot CaCO3 water using a jug, squeeze the bags on the sides for 5 minutes using a fork.
The idea is to extract as much from the tea bag as possible, increasing the carbon and nutrient value.
The CaCO3 water will help keep the pH in check as tea extracts are acidic by nature.
Add your tea extract and calcium water to your agar and gelatin powder.
Microwave the mixture for 48 seconds, assemble and leave.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24560528 - 08/17/17 01:54 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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How to detect contamination using T-Gel (semi-general):
Bacteria: Yellow tint, blobs or yellow-cream coloured thin slime.
Yeast: Produces a white blob or slime due to CaCO3.
Most molds that would germinate on tea will show a colour eventually.
Tip: Change your camera settings until the tea turns black.
 
 
Edited by Ferather (08/17/17 02:02 PM)
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24560555 - 08/17/17 02:06 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here is a clean plate of T-Gel, and toothpick transfer:
 
 
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24561774 - 08/18/17 12:22 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank you!
I just reread your teks. TGF tek just got caught into my mind recently. Based on your experiments and knowledge, how potent is TGF compared to the traditional enriched sawdust?? I mean when you inoculate enriched sawdust with grains, the ingredients of TGF is there.
Enriched sawdust : Cellulose, Bran, Lignin, Grain (from spawn)
TGF : Cellulose (paper pellets), Bran (from whole grain flour), Lignin and plant substances(?) (from spent tea), Grain (from whole grain flour)
If so, it would be incredibly convenient to just replace the prolonged colonization time of grain spawn then enriched sawdust with TGF (only colonize one time with all the ingredients mixed). What do you think?
Sorry if you have figured it out and wrote it out. It's hard to keep tracks of your writings all over the forum 
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24561958 - 08/18/17 06:10 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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TGF is an easy alternative to bran, using cheap brown grain flour and waste tea.
It requires sterilization and aseptic working, but it's easy to make.
You can use it as spawn also, just handle like grains.
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24564581 - 08/19/17 08:56 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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An interesting question would be is it possible to compost TGF substrate??
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24564601 - 08/19/17 09:08 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm guessing that the nature of cellulose which is hard to digest might give problems when trying to grow secondary decomposers or compost mushrooms using WL-tek and TGF-tek.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24564807 - 08/19/17 10:51 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes indeed, you can add compost to the WL-Tek, and use the cellulose like vermiculite, it should eat some of it.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24579019 - 08/25/17 01:41 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here is a new grow of Tarragon oyster, amazing smell, using WL-Tek spawn to more WL-Tek.
I am using the grow-up spawn method for thicker, more populated colonization.
The WL-Tek spawn is just under the bottom band, ETA: 2 - 3 weeks.
 
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24584350 - 08/27/17 11:53 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why use WL-spawn instead of TGF-spawn?? I don't know the condition there but it seems you use low spawn ratio to substrate. Conventional wisdom dictates to use 1:4 spawn to substrate ratio for sawdust substrate. Only when using straw that you get to use 1:20 ratio. I don't know how it goes with WL-tek, so you may care to explain it a bit to me. Also, the consensus here seems to favor the use of grain spawn against sawdust spawn, so I think the use of pure cellulose here would hurt even more the mycelium's capability of gathering enough energy to colonize your WL-substrate.
I also thought about the possibility of using liquid inoculants to inoculate TGF substrates (no grains, just Agar -> LC or distilled water storage vials -> TGF substrate). The use of liquid inoculant would allow me to inoculate through injection ports all the way from Agar to end substrate (assuming I'm using spore syringe and not cloning from wild tissue, but it could be done nonetheless after I got a clean transfer on agar then scrape the mycelium using syringe filled with distilled water through injection port, I'm using pasty plates here so it's possible to drill injection ports on it).
And when it's done, I just take out the fully colonized TGF cakes and case them like your All-Natural Fruiting tek.
It seems very convenient in my head, but the fact that I'm against conventional wisdom of using grain spawn is taunting me. But then again you seemed to be successful making WL-cakes using tiny piece of agar and the likes. Maybe you could share the BE of using WL-tek, so that I can see it in a more objective point of view.
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24587167 - 08/29/17 06:00 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's just a trial, I want to see how long it will take with no added soluble carbon, normally I add tea or compost.
Wood pellets would be more ideal with the lignin and so on, however paper holds more water.
Pure WL-Tek, takes 4 months, adding tea, takes 2-3 weeks. So pure + grain spawn.
Edit: The lignin in wood, can cause germination of wood loving mold.
Edited by Ferather (08/30/17 07:13 AM)
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24590651 - 08/30/17 11:49 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hmmmm... Actually I'm more interested in your TGF-tek. If it's possible to just add grain flour and spent tea or manure to the paper mix to replace bran and grain spawn then it's possible to do LC -> Substrate directly, inoculation through injection port, then fruiting done in the outside w/ casing once fully colonized. It will be possible to do the process from clean agar to end substrate using syringe, without opening any container risking contamination, can you imagine?!
I'm suggesting you to do another trial with King Oyster. This time, use those large bottles for commercial King Oyster cultivation : https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14795212/fpart/1/vc/1
Compare between WL-tek and TGF-tek. If "commercial-ish" yield could be achieved, then I'm sold to your invention!
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24590872 - 08/30/17 01:56 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Shu inoculated pure WL-Tek with a sugar based liquid culture and got fast colonization, as the sugar provides fast carbon.
In theory this could also be done with a tea based liquid culture, which is not something I have ever tested.
The liquid culture would be the equivalent of adding live mycelium and a few drops of sugar.
Once the mycelium gets enough energy, it will increase the overall decay rate.
Most sugar loving contamination, should fail to spread on cellulose.
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DailyShroomer
Stranger
Registered: 05/22/17
Posts: 106
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: Ferather]
#24592022 - 08/30/17 11:32 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, but the question here would be the yield. Maybe you can give me the link to Shu's grow log using WL-Tek.
It has been shown in the link I gave you that the smallest percentage of supplementation (6.8%) yielded crap. The best would be somewhere in the middle when using bottle culture for KO.
Maybe I missed something from your experiments, I would be glad if you can point me out. The thing is I believe you have succeeded in colonization using either your WL-tek or TGF-tek. Next step would be to test out BE and yield!
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ferather's Corner | Experiments, tests and data [Re: DailyShroomer]
#24699557 - 10/10/17 01:27 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Getting 20:1, or roughly, carbon-to-nitrogen:
Carbohydrates, starch and plant fiber: 44.45% carbon, roughly.
Proteins, many types: 17.22% nitrogen, roughly
Flour:
[ Dark Rye ] → 76.6g carbohydrates, 8.7g protein → 34g Carbon, 1.46g Nitrogen → [ 23.28:1 ] → Use plain body, with lots of water.
[ Brown Rice ] → 80.1g carbohydrates, 7.3g protein → 35.6g Carbon, 1.25g Nitrogen → [ 28.48:1 ] → Use plain body, with lots of water.
[ Wheat ] → 68.2g carbohydrates, 12.8g protein → 30.3g Carbon, 2.2g Nitrogen → [ 13.77:1 ] → Use carbon body, with lots of water.
Grain:
[ Oat ] → 68.3g carbohydrates, 13.3g protein → 30.4g Carbon, 2.3g Nitrogen → [ 13.21:1 ] → Use carbon body, with lots of water.
[ Brown rice ] → 76.0g carbohydrates, 9.0g protein → 33.8g Carbon, 1.54g Nitrogen → [ 21.94:1 ] → Use plain body, with lots of water.
[ Rye ] → 70.7g carbohydrates, 12.7g protein → 31.4g Carbon, 2.2g Nitrogen → [ 14:27:1 ] → Use carbon body, with lots of water.
[ Millet ] → 72.8g carbohydrates, 11.0g protein → 32.4g Carbon, 1.89g Nitrogen → [ 17.14:1 ] → Use carbon body, with lots of water.
For faster colonization, adjust to 40:1 or 60:1, however total yeild will be effected.
Alternatives are less spawn, and a pre-balanced (enriched) substrates.
Usually for gourmet, such as wheat bran mixed with wood.
----
Useful links:
> Composting and Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios.
> Soil Amendments and Fertilizers.
Edited by Ferather (10/13/17 03:21 PM)
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