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 Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
 
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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 Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy!  [Re: ellomello]
#24713507 - 10/16/17 06:39 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you're going to do any DNA work, you'll need a *very* clean place to work, plenty of sterile equipment (eg pipettes and tips, tubes), a very good idea of what you're doing and access to some enzymes that cost hundreds of dollars for less than a mL (which are usually controlled by purchasing licenses). I mean, if you can find a way to do some cheap and nasty cloning/PCR, then go right for it. I wouldnt recommend it though.
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Long time lurker and learner!
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 ellomello
XP
Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 2,426
Loc: babilonUSA
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24713939 - 10/16/17 11:33 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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ive looked over the process of transferring glowing DNA into plants.. it would go something like this... ..
First isolate and grow your glowing bacterium, possibly Aliivibrio fischeri
Then isolate agrobacterium (A. tumefaciens or A. rhizogenes) and grow extra cultures for experimenting..
Then place the glowing DNA with the agrobacteria in small tubes, and freeze shock it (break open cells) and shake it...
and regrow the agrobacteria on plates and look for signs of the new glowing DNA, isolate and grow the glowing strain.
Next grow the glowing agrobacteria in water/nutrients, and simultaneously have plants flowering about to seed.
Dip flower pods into the glowing agrobacterium soup, wich should infect the developing seeds with new DNA.
Also there are several types of bioluminescent bacteria, one example is Aliivibrio fischeri found living on squid skin...
this company, http://www.glowee.eu/ has transfered the glowing squid bacteria DNA to more easily grown bacteria.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Bioluminescent-Bacterial-Lightbulb-Water-Polluti/
http://www.diybcn.org/cultivating-fresh-bioluminescent-bacteria/
http://iicbe.org/upload/8489136%20Pe%20New%20New%20New.pdf
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/grow-glowing-bacteria
http://www.disknet.com/indiana_biolab/b203.htm
Sorry thread is off track again lol.
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PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN get back to the garden
some came singing, some come to play, some come for keeping the dark away
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Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: ellomello]
#24715877 - 10/17/17 05:46 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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That all sounds very straight forward, but (1.) how are you going to extract the DNA at a high enough concentration to be useful and (2.) how do you expect the extracted DNA to get into your A. tumefaciens culture? I dont think freeze shocking the cells will be enough to get them to take up the DNA. Its not impossible, but it's unlikely.
For the genes to then be transferred to a plant by Agrobacterium, it needs to be integrated into the Ti plasmid. For this to happen, by chance, from getting it into the bacterium by natural transformation alone is very very unlikely to happen. Again, not impossible, but incredibly unlikely.
Im trying not to shit on your parade, but genetics deserves some respect.
I wouldn't recommend fucking around with the genetics of wild organisms for fun either. There's very small chances that you could do any damage, but there's always the chance.
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Long time lurker and learner!
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bodhisatta  
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24716158 - 10/17/17 09:11 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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They make an 800$ kit you can do this shit in your living room now
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24716200 - 10/17/17 09:32 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do you have a link to this kit? This sounds interesting.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: krypto2000]
#24716557 - 10/17/17 11:58 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24718612 - 10/18/17 03:34 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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What the fuck. How is that not being regulated by some kind of government agency?
We have the OGTR in Australia. It seems you have the FDA and the National Bioethics Advisory Council... what are they doing about this?
I mean, you dont need a PhD to throw some virulence genes on a plasmid and turn your kit 'non pathogenic E. coli' into an extremely pathogenic enterohaemorrhagic E. coli!
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Long time lurker and learner!
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24718877 - 10/18/17 08:27 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sure, but there's tons of ways you can cause great harm. I mean we could make bombs, chemical weapons, etc OTC. You can probably even make a nuke if you're determined enough (albeit not missile guided or long range). I see the cause for concern, but I'm not convinced it needs to be regulated.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24718940 - 10/18/17 09:06 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiiiiilson said:
What the fuck. How is that not being regulated by some kind of government agency?
We have the OGTR in Australia. It seems you have the FDA and the National Bioethics Advisory Council... what are they doing about this?
I mean, you dont need a PhD to throw some virulence genes on a plasmid and turn your kit 'non pathogenic E. coli' into an extremely pathogenic enterohaemorrhagic E. coli!
You never needed a phd. May as well put good kits out And help people learn. Bad move Australia considering you cant regulate or hide away bad things only try... Trying to do so has failed thru all of history.
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24719100 - 10/18/17 10:15 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Australia has pretty strict regulations on all kinds of things for no apparent reason.
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Drayce
Spidget Finner
Registered: 10/07/17
Posts: 260
Loc: Gaia
Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24719439 - 10/18/17 01:10 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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ShabbyRabbit
Do no harm.
Registered: 09/09/17
Posts: 180
Loc: Central Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Drayce]
#24720873 - 10/18/17 11:26 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: ShabbyRabbit]
#24721201 - 10/19/17 06:09 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dont know. I just dont see a lot of benefits from essentially uneducated people screwing around with genetics. Whats the point in making a whole heap of glowing plants? Is there a chance that they'll have some kind of unpredictable consequences? I can imagine there is.
What if someone decides to go on a gene drive because they hate cockroaches and engineer a bunch of cockroaches to spread a gene that makes them die when exposed to a common household chemical (let's say... sucrose) killing all the roaches, only for a whole other ecosystem to collapse because of the lizards that feed on the roaches and the birds that feed on those lizards, the trees that rely on those birds for their seeds to spread (etc) suddenly die? What if your native plants and animals rely on the things you are trying to alter and aren't able to evolve to the changes as quickly as they are made? You get the extinction of your native plants and animals.
Even worse, what if the things you change suddenly become a pest, or are wiped out and their place is taken by something worse (like getting a heap of Clostridium species taking over your gut after a course of antibiotics, wiping out your natural gut microbiota).
My concern is the unpredictabilty - the unintended butterfly-effect type consequences. Sure, it's unlikely, but it's not impossible, especially when you're dealing with something as fundamental to life as genetics and when you're playing with microbes, where as a consequence of their rapid reproduction, evolution can happen in hours rather than over the course of a millennium.
It's very short-sighted to think that introducing new genetics into a system won't alter that system - even if those new genetics weren't engineered by humans. Cane toads and rabbits in Australia for example - not engineered by men, but genetic variants of existing organisms whose genetic differences proved enough to dominate those organisms who were already there!
I never thought I'd be the one pushing for anything to be regulated, but if nothing else, those biohacker types are utterly cringe-worthy and want change only for change sake without concern for any consequences.
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Long time lurker and learner!
Edited by Wiiiiilson (10/19/17 06:13 AM)
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Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24721212 - 10/19/17 06:20 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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And you're right Krypto - you can make bombs OTC. You could even make a nuke. You could poison your towns water supply. You can do a lot of damage to a lot of people in a lot of ways, but you'd get onto a watchlist pretty quickly when you start buying bulk fertilizer or poisons and that's because there's an understanding of the danger of those particular things for their use as weapons. Why shouldn't genetics be viewed as closely? As far as I can see, there is just as much danger - if not more - to altering things which can survive and multiply.
It's like making billions of ticking time bombs. Sure they might not explode in your town and kill your family, but they might just destroy the forest your local industry relies on, or the crops, or the water quality in 5 years time and it'll hurt a whole lot more people.
Again, I'm being dramatic, but genetics don't follow our human rules. Evolution is allows the survival of the fittest and if you make a change to something that allows it to become fitter than something else in a given niche, it will displace whatever was there before you came along.
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Long time lurker and learner!
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ellomello
XP
Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 2,426
Loc: babilonUSA
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24721694 - 10/19/17 11:13 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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i don't think glowing plants are going to take over, but i can see where you are coming from.. that's a bit outrAGEOUS..
Take for example small dogs, or crop corn, both genetically modified, both wouldn't survive a season without help..
and new technology is new power, you want to give it away? but who will regulate the regulators, f<k the sys.
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PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN get back to the garden
some came singing, some come to play, some come for keeping the dark away
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Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: ellomello]
#24722860 - 10/19/17 06:27 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The question of who regulates the regulators is a good question indeed. I think I'd be far more paranoid if I were American - given that so much dodgy shit happens there on such a large scale, driven by greed.
Australia is not far behind, but at this stage I dont think the government has recognised yet which things are most profitable or dangerous.
The idea of an amateur trying to genetically modify a dog (not through breeding, but through a CRISPR approach) is terrible to think. With a higher organism there is so much more chance for things to go wrong - namely cancer - and ultimately suffering for that organism. Bacteria can't complain and plants don't feel pain - but a dog certainly could.
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Long time lurker and learner!
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24722962 - 10/19/17 07:08 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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there's better places to talk about the ethics of what humans do with genes. It's off topic in this thread and in this forum. The universe has caused plenty pain and suffering how come humans can't? 
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Wiiiiilson
Katso Grower
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 334
Last seen: 10 months, 22 days
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24723613 - 10/20/17 01:53 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, my bad. I totally hijacked this thread!
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Long time lurker and learner!
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Mike O Voidenski
Undomesticated Rockoholic
Registered: 09/04/17
Posts: 295
Loc: North America
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Wiiiiilson]
#24735181 - 10/24/17 08:54 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can't help myself, I know it's off topic. I have been following the CRISPR/Cas9 stuff for a minute now. Shits about to get weird.....
Basically to my understanding the genetics and technology to do this are so low tech that they weren't really able to stop it from spreading like wildfire. Anyone with a few grand and a few weeks can now play genetic engineer. I bet it's only a matter of time till there are threads here about users messing with the stuff.
The psilo beer thing is an awesome idea too! Maybe with CRISPR/Cas9 someone will engineer a psychoactive yeast or something. Apparently much is possible with this newer technology. It's been here a few years now. I'm thinking within a few more years we are going to start seeing a lot of new things.
YouTube CRISPR/Cas9
EDIT: Someone start a CRISPR thread so this thread can stay on topic and no one gets banned.... Hurry!
Lol
I will try to put something together.
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There are three distinct realities occurring simultaneously.
The first involves a single point or object.
The second involves that point/object's relationship with other points/objects.
The third involves their relationships in motion.
Edited by Mike O Voidenski (10/24/17 09:17 PM)
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ShabbyRabbit
Do no harm.
Registered: 09/09/17
Posts: 180
Loc: Central Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Psilo beer! Activating psilocybin production using an epigenetic regulator! Easy peasy! [Re: Mike O Voidenski]
#24735256 - 10/24/17 09:27 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mike O Voidenski said:
Anyone with a few grand and a few weeks can now play genetic engineer.
Hmm...I'm listening. I've been looking for something else to fill the hours.
jk
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