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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,775
Loc: space
Military Propaganda
    #2454319 - 03/20/04 01:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

from an email I recieved... :

SLEEP LAST NIGHT?



Bed a little lumpy...



Toss and turn any...


Wish the heat was higher...


Maybe the a/c wasn?t on...


Had to go to the john...


Need a drink of water...



?

?

?

Scroll down






Yes...
It is like that!
Count your blessings, pray for them,
Talk to God
and
the next time
when...
the other car cuts you off and you must hit the brakes,
or
you have to park a little further from Walmart than you want to be,
or
you?re served slightly warm food at the restaurant,
or
you?re sitting and cursing the traffic in front of you,
or
the shower runs out of hot water,

Think of them...

Protecting your freedom!

****************************************************



Alright, this is complete and utter bullshit. Who is responsible for sending me this letter? A republican. What do Republicans profess to stand for? Personal Responsibility. So, why then, is this Republican asking me to feel sorry for these people because of the choice that they made? Where is the personal responsibility in that?

I know that when I look at these people, I am supposed to see heroes. But all I see is a bunch of bullies. Seriously, these people look exactly like the assholes that kicked the crap out of me every day in Jr. High, and I dont feel the slightest bit bad about the fact that they are going to die so that i can have cheap gasoline. What goes around comes around.

I might feel bad for them if they were draftees that didnt want to be there. But thats not the case.

THEY made the choice to become professional bullies. THEY made the choice to make killing their business. Live by the sword, die by the sword. No skin off my back.

See, I just dont have any respect for anybody who decides to join the military. Its basically like signing all your rights away to the government. I think its one of the most stupid things a person can do to themselves and the people around them.

Ghandi once said: "I can think of a million causes worth dying for, but not a single cause worth killing for."

I believe that. And I refuse to see these people as martyrs. They are part of the problem.


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454510 - 03/20/04 02:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Alright, this is complete and utter bullshit. Who is responsible for sending me this letter? A republican. What do Republicans profess to stand for? Personal Responsibility. So, why then, is this Republican asking me to feel sorry for these people because of the choice that they made? Where is the personal responsibility in that?




let me guess, if John Waffleboy Kerry had sent this EXACT same e-mail out to show his "support" of the troops, you'd be jizzing all over it, right? of course. You shouldn't feel sorry for them, nor did it ask you to. It is putting things in perspective.
Quote:


I know that when I look at these people, I am supposed to see heroes. But all I see is a bunch of bullies. Seriously, these people look exactly like the assholes that kicked the crap out of me every day in Jr. High, and I dont feel the slightest bit bad about the fact that they are going to die so that i can have cheap gasoline. What goes around comes around.




FLAME REMOVED
Quote:


See, I just dont have any respect for anybody who decides to join the military. Its basically like signing all your rights away to the government. I think its one of the most stupid things a person can do to themselves and the people around them.




Do you hear that? It sounds like a vagina actually learned to talk!
Quote:


Ghandi once said: "I can think of a million causes worth dying for, but not a single cause worth killing for."




Anyoen can die for a cause, it takes someone who is commited to a cause to kill for it.
Quote:


I believe that. And I refuse to see these people as martyrs. They are part of the problem.




Ugh, meet the ignore list.


Edited by automan (03/25/04 03:10 PM)


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Minister to the Damned
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,775
Loc: space
Re: Military Propaganda [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454543 - 03/20/04 02:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"......................................................"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454614 - 03/20/04 03:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Scumfucks like you



Quote:

becuase you are a pussy



From the Political Forum Rules:
Quote:

1) NO FLAMING ...if you can't state your case or refute someone elses case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent debate, not to try to belittle someone that doesn't think like you. THIS WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED ... If you have been warned already, you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently...choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.




I'd edit that post before Pinky does.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Male

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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: silversoul7]
    #2454634 - 03/20/04 03:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

sssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhutup, dude. :wink:


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454651 - 03/20/04 03:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You should just send them an email back with this link.

http://aztlan.net/iraqichildrenhorror.htm

or why not show them all the people in africa starving, infected with aids? These people just like to prey on the weak minded, to help them support their cause. Personally, i think they are full of shit.

I agree with you, They Chose to go there... its not like this is some new story. I would have hated to be the soldiers in WW1 with the nasty trenches filled with rats and pestilence, with the constant threat of mustard gas.


--------------------
What?


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454665 - 03/20/04 03:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:nonono:
Quote:

I know that when I look at these people, I am supposed to see heroes. But all I see is a bunch of bullies. Seriously, these people look exactly like the assholes that kicked the crap out of me every day in Jr. High, and I dont feel the slightest bit bad about the fact that they are going to die so that i can have cheap gasoline. What goes around comes around. 





Regardless of how you feel about the war, or Bush, saying something like that is inconceivable.  It is repugnant to the point of pity.

Were the Amercian soldiers also "part of the problem" when they fought Hitler's forces?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Male

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Posts: 8,775
Loc: space
Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2454686 - 03/20/04 03:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

excuse me for holding people accountable for their actions. The decision to inflict your views on someone else with violence is always a wrong one, even if your views are of the purest libertarian motives. self defense is one thing, but initiating force is entirely different.

and dont even try to use WWII as an example. WWII was the 9-11 of the AARP generation. It was a crisis that was engineered by those in power in order to justify taking away people's freedom.


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454730 - 03/20/04 03:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

excuse me for holding people accountable for their actions. The decision to inflict your views on someone else with violence is always a wrong one, even if your views are of the purest libertarian motives. self defense is one thing, but initiating force is entirely different.




Then hold the politicians accountable.  Soldiers have absolutely NO say in what conflicts they participate in.

Quote:

and dont even try to use WWII as an example. WWII was the 9-11 of the AARP generation. It was a crisis that was engineered by those in power in order to justify taking away people's freedom. 




Are you fucking kidding me?  :wtf:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Male

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Loc: space
Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2454751 - 03/20/04 03:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Then hold the politicians accountable. Soldiers have absolutely NO say in what conflicts they participate in.





THEY make the decision to become soldiers in the first place.  THEY make the decision to fight.  I will not feel sorry for someone else's bad choices. 

Quote:

Are you fucking kidding me?




nope.  I thouroughly believe that both sides in that conflict were ultimately working for the same people.  That shouldnt be hard for you to understand, Mr. Celine :smile:


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454801 - 03/20/04 04:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I thought you just said that you self-defense is permittable, but then condemn those who do just that?


Quote:

  nope. I thouroughly believe that both sides in that conflict were ultimately working for the same people. That shouldnt be hard for you to understand, Mr. Celine 




:lipsrsealed:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454819 - 03/20/04 04:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:<<Then hold the politicians accountable. Soldiers have absolutely NO say in what conflicts they participate in. >>:

HagbardC, you are 100% right on target with that.

Theoneyouknow, I think you're pretty much correct and i agree with ya in feeling anger, thing is this is'nt a barroom. "Brawl breaks out"

If bush thought there were WMD's, planned for use against the u.s. as he portrayed it on tv, and sent in soldiers to find them, then thats the way it is. He is in charge of protecting the u.s. However if he now thinks there are none then he needs to get the soldiers home right now.


--------------------

http://www.sacredshrooms.org


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454858 - 03/20/04 04:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Sigh.

Lights out for you, TOYK. See you in fourteen days -- if the admins let you back at all after this one.

pinky


--------------------


Edited by pinksharkmark (03/20/04 05:29 PM)


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454903 - 03/20/04 04:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I don't read it as anyone wanting you to feel sorry for the soldiers. I read it as they think you should quit whining and feeling sorry for yourself. And I think they are right.

And maybe it isn't all about cheap gas. Maybe it is so that people can build things like the $150 billion Trans-Atlantic Maglev without having to worry that some terrorist will blow it up.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Edited by mntlfngrs (03/20/04 04:48 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2454917 - 03/20/04 04:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
I don't read it as anyone wanting you to feel sorry for the soldiers. I read it as they think you should quit whining and feeling sorry for yourself. And I think they are right.



I think you're partially correct, but there's definitely a strong subtext there of "Support our brave troops!" To assume that the motive behind that email was entirely non-political would be rather naive.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: silversoul7]
    #2454924 - 03/20/04 04:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Sure but to read in that they want your simpathy is a stretch too.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2455003 - 03/20/04 05:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

First, bye.

Second, what about all of our innocent victims? What about all of the innocent people we have killed and whom have died for our "freedom", people who never volunteered to throw themselves in front of a bullet for us?

When do they get their recognition? When do we start forcing school children to say the "Pledge of Apology" in school to honor all those who gave their lives for our country against their will ?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2455018 - 03/20/04 05:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You should just send them an email back with this link.

http://aztlan.net/iraqichildrenhorror.htm


Yeah, but that beautiful Iraqi girl with her head blown out, gave her tender life for a "reason" because we care about "the people". Her mother thanks us nightly for giving them their freedom and will become an avid USA supporter in the fight against "terrorism".


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2455766 - 03/20/04 10:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

First of all, I would like to point out that the military is composed of individuals. Unless they are draftees, all these individuals are people who have used their free will to commit to military duty, and all it entails. I acknowledge that this is their decision to make, but I do not respect it. I think it is a very foolish decision. I especially despise careerist soldiers. But the people who use it as a way into college are not blameless either. These are people who have decided to get ahead in life by offering their service to the fucking government for the purpose of death and destruction.

This isnt just about the American Army. Its about every army. Its about every individual who picks up a gun with the intention to use force to get his way. Whether its for the government of the US, China, Al-queda, or the neighborhood gang makes no difference. I lay the responsibility for violence solely at the feet of those who commit it. It doesnt matter whether they were ordered to or wether they had the best of intentions. They are guilty of violence regardless of the situation.

the essence of what I'm saying is basically the same thing Jesus said: "When someone slaps you in the face, turn the other cheek." And I'm not surprised that its not a popular opinion. Everyone knows what happened to Jesus.

more violence is not the solution to violence. I honestly believe that our military provokes more violence than it prevents.

Everyone says "support the troops!" You know what I say?

FUCK THE TROOPS!!!

They knew (or should have known) what they were getting into when they signed up. They are nothing but a bunch of soulless mercenaries and naive idiots, and I have no respect for their decision to make a living off of violence.

I know that there are some naive people who join the military out of a genuine desire to help, but they are just dumb. If strapping an AR33 to your back and killing who you're told to kill is all you can think of to do for your country, you are a moron. Do something productive , for christ's sake.

I'm also real tired of this attitude among americans that the people in the military are "the best and the brightest." They're not. They are the people who are dumb enough to sign their rights away to the government. I know quite a few people who have joined the military, and they were all fuckups who did it because they didnt have anything else going for them.

The military is a safety net for those who dont know what to do with their lives. Its also where we stick all the psychotic killers who have nothing else to contribute to society.

In every society, there is going to be a certain percentage of people who are just beligerant assholes with nothing positive to contribute. War is just a way of getting rid of those people. Instead of trying to help them or find a place for them in society, we send them off to die in pointless wars.

The leaders of one country get together with the leaders of another country and say: "We've got a bumper crop of assholes this year, and we hear that you have one too. Lets have a war so these assholes will just kill eachother off. Then the rest of us can get high and not have to worry about a bunch of beligerant assholes harshin our buzz."

the government then hands these assholes weapons and tells them: "You wanna be a bully? You wanna be an asshole? Fine. We've got a place and time all lined up for you to be assholes to some other people that wanna be assholes too. You guys can be assholes to eachother and have a good 'ol time. We're just gonna sit back and watch from home."

And in times of peace, the military converts and trains more people to be assholes. Whether a born asshole, or simply a misguided youth who doesnt know what he's getting into, the military will find a place for you. And theyve got more knowledge of social psychology than most cult leaders. They'll condition ya real good.

the military is, and always has been, the world's most dangerous, heavily armed special interest group. Killing is their business, and they like to take whatever steps they can to ensure that business is good. And they take their funding by force through the mechanism of government from peaceful civillians.

"But they're there for your interest!"

No they're not. They are there because they ate too much paste in grade school and now the only productive thing that they can do for society is die.

My interests do not include violence. If there is a problem, it can be solved with words. And if I have to make sacrifices in my standard of living in order to make the solution work, then so be it. If there were a truly free global market, I dont think that things would be this cheap in America. And I dont think that the human species would be able to get away with the massive consumption of resources and damage to the environment if everyone on the planet were free to do it (instead of just Americans).

I think that we, as Americans, need to find a way to solve our problems that does not include violence. I'm 100% positive that there are better ways to solve our problems if we simply quit wasting our time with this pointless destruction and killing.

you can all rate me 1 shroom now I dont give a fuck. this is my raw, uncensored opinion, and if anybody wants to try and talk me out of it they can. I will listen. But I obviously feel very strongly that people need to put down their fucking guns and pick up their fucking brains.

"Beware of the Military-Industrial complex." -Eisenhower


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2455848 - 03/20/04 11:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

So do you now go back on you original position that self-defense is permissable?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2455864 - 03/20/04 11:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

not at all. but I consider self-defense through violence the very last option, in the rare circumstance that it is an option at all.

people have tried to slit my throat and break my neck before, and I had to use force against them. And I was very sad about it afterwards. These days I will go to any lengths to avoid a fight. Its not that I'm a pussy. I actually have 1 formal black belt and a shitload of informal martial arts training. But I respect the fact that my actions have consequences and I will not use my abilities against anyone unless it is absolutely, positively necessary. If that means being humiliated, stolen from, or abused, then so be it. I will use violence if and only if my life is in danger. And even then I will question whether it was the right thing to do.

Remember:

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2455902 - 03/20/04 11:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How else do you fight those intent on using violence against you except violence?

If it is fair for an individual to protect himself by using force, then it is also fair for a government to use it to protect its citizens. I'll agree with you that there have been situations we've been involved with that we shouldn't have been, though I don't believe the current ones fall in that category.

In an utopian fantasy, you can hope for diplomatic solution to every malady, but we both know it doesn't work that way.

A well prepared military is the best deterrent to need to use it, but when needed, we must be willing.

You participating in those martial arts classes is no different than someone joining the military. You both sought to provide protection. A government, which is representative of the people, must provide a military to protect itself. Criticizing them is a bit hypocritical.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2456344 - 03/21/04 03:01 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How else do you fight those intent on using violence against you except violence?

Check out Gandhi.


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Swami]
    #2456409 - 03/21/04 03:44 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I dont get it though. I wonder if its that very reason that the "terrorists" are pissed off in the first place. Some will say they support it, but how many people is that? Im sure there will still be some pissed off people because they are really fucked up from bomb shells going off, who couldnt get treatment. These people will turn to the terrorists to vent their anger.

its a turntable of shittiness.


--------------------
What?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2457787 - 03/21/04 05:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Just a quick question for Superman. You're walking home from a consiousness raising session in a seedy part of town and you see someone in an alley getting all over this girl and she's screaming and he smacks her in the mouth and keeps shredding her clothes and he smacks her some more, and some more, and some more. What do you do when he tells you to mind your own fucking business and get lost or he'll kick you're ass too?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2457796 - 03/21/04 05:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Is that quote Hari Seldon or Salvor Hardin?


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2457945 - 03/21/04 06:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

How else do you fight those intent on using violence against you except violence?





I can try to communicate with them and get them to understand that using violnce is not in their best interest. If they are slow to understand, I will patronize them to a point, but if it comes to them or me, I will protect myself. I will also try to figure out what is causing the urge for them to be violent and if there is anything I can do within reason to help quell that urge, I will do it.

I'm also not afraid to spend an entire fight blocking and attempting to restrain. And i only wiegh 110. I'm also not afraid to run away and let people think I'm a pussy. Its easy to kill a man with your hands if you know what you're doing. Whats hard is running away from a fight and being thought weak when you know you could have killed the dude.

Quote:

In an utopian fantasy, you can hope for diplomatic solution to every malady, but we both know it doesn't work that way.





It doesn't have to be a fantasy. Ruling out the possibility entirely- now that's a fantasy. and a dangerous one at that. Don't give up your personal power by participating in the same thing you are fighting against, no matter how much it seems like you have to.

Quote:

A well prepared military is the best deterrent to need to use it, but when needed, we must be willing.





I would rather have a well-prepared populace.

Quote:

You participating in those martial arts classes is no different than someone joining the military. You both sought to provide protection.




uhhhh... You couldnt have thought that statement through very well.

how is training oneself in the martial arts different than joining the military? Let me count the ways:

1. You are there for you and not someone else
2. No commitment is made except the ones you make to yourself on your own terms. No one is going to shoot you or ruin your record if you try to leave.
3. You get to choose what you learn and how you apply what you learn.
4. Nothing is expected of you except a desire to learn and basic physical fitness.
5. You are not expected to swear alliengance to anyone.
6. You will never be expected to kill anyone for your sensei
7. The mental conditioning involved is all voluntary. It is not forced on students. Students may embark upon these mental disciplines only if they are cosnciously aware of what they are and choose to do them individually.
8. Martial Arts is a hobby, not a profession (unless you are a teacher or a really elite tournament fighter)
9. Martial arts does not take over someone's entire life. Your sensei does not wake you up at 5 AM every morning.
10. Most schools that teach martial arts are in no way affiliated with the government.

there. thats 10 ways they are completely different. If you want, I could probably come up with 100 more.



Quote:

A government, which is representative of the people, must provide a military to protect itself.




First of all, governments dont necessarily represent people. That may be their purpose, but they dont always do a great job of it. Second of all, I think that people should learn to protect and rely on themselves and leave the government out of it as much as possible.


--------------------
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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2457966 - 03/21/04 06:11 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Just a quick question for Superman.  You're walking home from a consiousness raising session in a seedy part of town and you see someone in an alley getting all over this girl and she's screaming and he smacks her in the mouth and keeps shredding her clothes and he smacks her some more, and some more, and some more.  What do you do when he tells you to mind your own fucking business and get lost or he'll kick you're ass too?




"Let me ask you a question mayor:  You're soft on criminals.  But what would you do if it was your house that was robbed,  your family that was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much  blood on the knob... " :lol:

Hypothetical questions like that are a great debating tactic because they are so difficult to answer, especially when its some outrageous situation and no one really knows what they would do unless they were there. 

but yeah I would try to break it up without hurting either one of them.  I would try to give the girl a chance to run away by restraining the male. 

Quote:

Is that quote Hari Seldon or Salvor Hardin?





I think it has Hardin, but its been about 4 years since I read those books, so I could be wrong.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2458505 - 03/21/04 09:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I can try to communicate with them and get them to understand that using violnce is not in their best interest. If they are slow to understand, I will patronize them to a point, but if it comes to them or me, I will protect myself. I will also try to figure out what is causing the urge for them to be violent and if there is anything I can do within reason to help quell that urge, I will do it.

I'm also not afraid to spend an entire fight blocking and attempting to restrain. And i only wiegh 110. I'm also not afraid to run away and let people think I'm a pussy. Its easy to kill a man with your hands if you know what you're doing. Whats hard is running away from a fight and being thought weak when you know you could have killed the dude.




But as you said, you will protect yourself. Of course diplomatic solutions must be tried and exhausted, but then if they're still intent on aggression, you must be prepared to fight back.

Quote:

It doesn't have to be a fantasy. Ruling out the possibility entirely- now that's a fantasy. and a dangerous one at that. Don't give up your personal power by participating in the same thing you are fighting against, no matter how much it seems like you have to.





Sometime in future, maybe, but for now, in the conditions that exist, there will always be those who will use violence to attempt to achieve their goals.

Quote:

I would rather have a well-prepared populace.




As this has already been covered, I won't go into detail, but a militia can't overcome a properly prepared military in this day.

Quote:

uhhhh... You couldnt have thought that statement through very well.

how is training oneself in the martial arts different than joining the military? Let me count the ways:...(etc.)





The point in which is was no different was that you took the steps neccesary to prepare yourself to be able to better protect you. Which is exactly what a government does by preparing a military.

I didn't say all governements were representitive of the people, but in ours, it is (even though they don't represent us very well.)

But you have to look at a representitive government as a personal entitity. They also have the right to protect themselves. I don't care whether or not you agree with the war in Iraq. That's irrelevant. But just as you said you have the right to protect yourself, so does the governement. To criticize those who serve in the military the way you have is ignorant.


--------------------
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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2459902 - 03/22/04 11:52 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
I believe that. And I refuse to see these people as martyrs. They are part of the problem.




yeah, I really got into this issue on another message board. a poster was trying to organize a care package donation type deal to send troops much needed 2 ply toilet paper and video games. I wasn't quite as mean about it, but yeah, I understand your sentiment. war is supposed to be hell; being in hellish situations makes people think about just what the fuck they're doing. video games allow them to escape the reality of what they're doing.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2459910 - 03/22/04 11:55 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Scumfucks like you should be run through with a fucking rusty bayonet. Why don't you post your address here so those of us that served can some talk to you about your thoughts on how you feel about American servicemen dying.  The reason that you got your pussy self pushed around in high school was, you guessed it, becuase you are a pussy. Thats the same reason you are critizing (anonymously, of coursE) those that aren't.





I got the same sort of reaction (again, a bit more politely, but the same sentiment) down to the "lets meet in person so you can tell my wife and kids why you don't support our troops etc etc" with implied violence against my person.

people really freak out when any arguement "against our troops" is brought up, even the "liberals".  hmm.... war time fervor.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2459925 - 03/22/04 12:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zero7a1 said:
You should just send them an email back with this link.

http://aztlan.net/iraqichildrenhorror.htm






dear god, that is so graphic. how sure are you of the credibility of these photos? this who zionist/neocon connection is getting more and more mainstream press despite the "anti-semitic" (a retarded term, since arabs are also semitic peoples..) labeling of anyone who puts such a connection forth.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2460083 - 03/22/04 01:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

give me a break man....that's not propaganda. I don't see how you could really think it is. It's just asking you to remember them and pray for them.

and btw..not everyone who joins the military is a mindless killing machine who loves george bush. I know people in the military who  hate george bush. And it's not like everyone in then military "decides to become a proffesional bully" some need money for college and the military offers to pay for it all. Some people really do think they make a positive difference in this world by joining the military. They may be wrong but at least their hearts are in the right place.

You say you don't have any respect for people who decide to join the military? thats fucked up...you must have a couple screws loose or something. This country probably wouldn't exist today if people hadn't joined the military at certain points in time. The only reason you have the freedom to bitch and moan about president bush  is because "some people decided to become professional bullies"

:shake: Thats pretty sad that you feel this way


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2460258 - 03/22/04 02:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JonnyOnTheSpot said:
and btw..not everyone who joins the military is a mindless killing machine who loves george bush. I know people in the military who hate george bush.



My brother is in S.F. as a reservist and has recently returned home after 2 years of active duty. He is not fond of George Bush (to put it politely) and is going to vote for a third party or independent candidate (he doesn't know who yet). He fully supports the government's actions in Afghanistan but believes that actions in Iraq are merely for the benefit of the military industrial complex and Israeli lobbies... I guess that makes him a bleeding heart liberal.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #2460291 - 03/22/04 02:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

give me a break man....that's not propaganda. I don't see how you could really think it is.



Quote:

yourdictionary.com said:
Propaganda:
1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.




I don't see how you could think that this isn't propaganda.

Quote:

and btw..not everyone who joins the military is a mindless killing machine who loves george bush.




agreed. but they are all people who have foolishly decided to use violence in support of the government.

Quote:

some need money for college and the military offers to pay for it all.




nobody "needs" money for college. College is a luxury. And even if they did need the money that bad, there are many other ways to get it. Get a job. Apply for grants and scholarships. Like I said earlier, the people who join the military so they can get into college are not without blame. They are using violence as a way to get ahead in life.

Quote:

They may be wrong but at least their hearts are in the right place.




The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Quote:

This country probably wouldn't exist today if people hadn't joined the military at certain points in time. The only reason you have the freedom to bitch and moan about president bush is because "some people decided to become professional bullies"




You might want to hop in your Delorean and go back to 1984 with that cliche rhetoric. Its been played out in the 04.

Violence would not exist if it weren't for the individuals that make the decision to use it to get ahead in life.


--------------------
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2460692 - 03/22/04 04:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Listen, if you want to preach no violence, fine. We need idealists.

But it all boils down to the fact that there are people in this world that are intent on using aggressions as a means to achieve their goals. If you can wave your magic wand and suddenly make everyone feel the same way all at once then problem solved. But since we can't it's going to take a gradual change. So you can remain idealistic and try and change human nauture, we need it, but in order for you to remain alive while you do this, you need realists who are willing to protect you.

But don't preach your message at the expense of those who keep you safe.


--------------------
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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460727 - 03/22/04 04:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

But don't preach your message at the expense of those who keep you safe.

But if our military action in Iraq breeds a new generation of terrorists, how will that make us safer?

But if our military action leads to civil war in Iraq and disrupts the region worse than ever, how will that make us safer?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Swami]
    #2460752 - 03/22/04 04:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Terrorists existed long before we ever went to Iraq. These people would exist regardless.

Had we just stayed here and done nothing, it would have emboldened them. They would've labeled us cowards, their suspicions proved, and we would likely begin to face a similar onslaught as Israel.

No matter what, they would be there, and I for one would prefer the battle to take place in their front yard.


--------------------
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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460798 - 03/22/04 04:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
... it all boils down to the fact that there are people in this world that are intent on using aggressions as a means to achieve their goals.



Such people are also setting the goals for our military (I am referring to the civilian 'leadership').

Would you care to offer your input in this thread?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460825 - 03/22/04 04:55 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
Had we just stayed here and done nothing, it would have emboldened them.



Iraq is not Al Qaeda.

Quote:

They would've labeled us cowards, their suspicions proved, and we would likely begin to face a similar onslaught as Israel.



Well, we've seen how effective Israel has been in putting an end to terrorism. How many years have they gone without terrorist attacks? Would you call their policy a success? The U.S. seems to be following a policy similar to Israel's in that it is likely to fuel the growth of terrorism. But worse, we are attacking those who had nothing to do with terrorist attacks on the U.S.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (03/22/04 04:59 PM)


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460838 - 03/22/04 04:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Anyone willing to support the killing of innocent civilians in order to make themselves theoretically safer is a coward and does not belong in the "home of the brave".


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460851 - 03/22/04 05:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Had we just stayed here and done nothing, it would have emboldened them. They would've labeled us cowards, their suspicions proved, and we would likely begin to face a similar onslaught as Israel.





Hmmm. Seems the Spanish dont share your view on this one. They seem to think tsking a more passive and reasoned approach might be best. Are you saying the best thing the Spanish can do is to start kicking some muslim ass? This will ensure the terrorists know that they mean business so they wont try and bomb them again? (probabaly in revenge for all the muslims the spanish will have killed)


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2460862 - 03/22/04 05:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone willing to support the killing of innocent civilians in order to make themselves theoretically safer is a coward and does not belong in the "home of the brave". 




:thumbup:


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2461232 - 03/22/04 06:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The best thing to do is disband the US military. While we're at it, disband the police as well.

Then the Jihadists will see there is no possible threat to them, and they will achieve their ends through peaceful dialogue.

pinky


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #2461258 - 03/22/04 07:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How would we then be able to hide behind small children like Americans are wont to do?


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2461296 - 03/22/04 07:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

No, no. You don't get it. There would be no need to hide behind children or even shrubbery. The Jihadists would stop using violence. So would rapists and muggers and serial killers, because there would be no more cops holding them down.

pinky


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: GazzBut]
    #2461302 - 03/22/04 07:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Check out the incoming Spanish regime's response to ETA's overtures for dialogue. They will accept nothing short of full disarmament. Their response to their own fight is hardline. They just don't want to help us in ours. And that's OK. They have their problems and we have ours, and a significant amount of the rest of the world's. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I think a significant reason that we have a target on our backs is the perception in certain quarters that we lacked backbone and would never act. Vietnam caused tremendous damage. It was wrong and very many boys were killed. Never forget that the people in charge then had fought in WW2 and for some reason thought that we could never be wrong. WW2 drove us into Vietnam and for some reason that made many people think that we could never be right. Vietnam prevented us from acting for decades after, even when it would have been right. Neither position is correct


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #2461360 - 03/22/04 07:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There was this guy in my hometown that robbed a bank so they blew up his house with missiles and killed him and his neighbors. That's justice American style.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2461549 - 03/22/04 08:55 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So you can remain idealistic and try and change human nauture, we need it, but in order for you to remain alive while you do this, you need realists who are willing to protect you.





have you ever considered the possibility that those "realists" are selling themselves (and their society) short?

Quote:

But it all boils down to the fact that there are people in this world that are intent on using aggressions as a means to achieve their goals.




Which is exactly what I'm against. Whether it is us or them makes no difference. "He started it" is an excuse used by five year olds, not grown men.

Quote:

If you can wave your magic wand and suddenly make everyone feel the same way all at once then problem solved. But since we can't it's going to take a gradual change.




I agree that the change must be gradual. But I still refuse to respect the decision of those who choose to perpetuate this cycle of death and destruction, even if they are on "my side." My side does not include violence.

Quote:

But don't preach your message at the expense of those who keep you safe.




I am capable of protecting myself, thank you very much.

And let me add that if there were a violent invasion of our borders, I would be first to sign up to defend my country. (Unless of course the invasion was justified somehow) But there hasnt been an attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor (except for 9-11, which couldnt have been prevented by raw military force anyway- it was an internal security issue stemming from the fact that most Americans are dimwitted and unaware of what is going on in their world. However, I do beieve that 9-11 could have been prevented by our intelligence agencies if they had wanted to prevent it)


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2461905 - 03/22/04 10:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Anyone willing to support the killing of innocent civilians in order to make themselves theoretically safer is a coward and does not belong in the "home of the brave".




So you would rather it be our innocent civilians killed then?

I in no way said I support killing civilians.

As long as we are over there, we are diverting their attention. We are right in their base of operations, and much more of their resources are spent just hiding from us. And if we're lucky since it's their peers who would suffer from large scale attacks, they might think twice.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (03/22/04 11:34 PM)


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2462448 - 03/23/04 01:06 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:

Its about every individual who picks up a gun with the intention to use force to get his way. Whether its for the government of the US, China, Al-queda, or the neighborhood gang makes no difference. I lay the responsibility for violence solely at the feet of those who commit it. It doesnt matter whether they were ordered to or wether they had the best of intentions. They are guilty of violence regardless of the situation.






So what! I do this everytime I fire a round into a deer or some other defenseless creature in order to procure food that I don't absolutely need. I get violent to get the things that I want some times. So do others. So do many animals in the world. I'm fairly certain that when we finally meet our galactic neighbors, that they will as well. What we need to do is just realize that everything can't be hunky dory all of the time and get on with our lives or our deaths as it seems some are closer than others. You may not mind giving up your life as long as you don't have to hurt anything else, but I believe in a little thing called self preservation. It's what I believe will allow me to very easily take action against an aggressor.

I don't like the current politically motivated military actions our government has taken lately but I do love our servicemen and women. Many of the ones that I served with would probably agree with you that joining the military was the stupidest thing that they have ever done. I know that I certainly did while I was in. It wasn't because I might have to kill someone(I think I have already made it clear above that killing is not an issue for me when it comes to survival), but rather the fact that I was very possibly going to have to put my life on the line for people that didn't give a rat's ass about me and didn't even have the same views as I did.

When the world is free from violence and peace reigns on earth, I'm betting that there will be somebody out there ready to take over by force and I just hope that there will be someone that's prepared for it and is willing to fight back.

You can thank him/her if you survive.


--------------------
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2462849 - 03/23/04 03:46 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So you would rather it be our innocent civilians killed then?




The life of an American isn't worth any more than that of anyone from any other country.

America lost almost 3000 people in the 9/11 attack. How many people have we killed in our retaliation for that attack?


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462860 - 03/23/04 03:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I disagree. I want my government to treat the lives of Americans as far more important than those of other countries.

I want my government to do what is necessary to have a good life for us. If that benefits others as well... good. If not... tough shit.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462866 - 03/23/04 03:59 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Such a country would deserve to be destroyed.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462870 - 03/23/04 04:02 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Not at all. Should the sad day of a world government ever arrive, let them worry about it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462879 - 03/23/04 04:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Attitudes like yours make a world government less of a bad idea.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462882 - 03/23/04 04:09 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Attitudes like yours make a world government less of a bad idea.



Actually, my attitude is quite good. Don't fuck with other countries, don't let them fuck with us. Look out for #1 while doing no deliberate harm to others.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462887 - 03/23/04 04:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I wish we would cut all support of Israel completely and permanently. Maybe that would also have the side effect of making us safer.

I don't want to do it for security reasons, I want to do it because fuck Israel.

Maybe we could drop a bomb or two on them on the way out the door as well.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462889 - 03/23/04 04:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I dislike foreign aid to anybody.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462905 - 03/23/04 04:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #2463016 - 03/23/04 06:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The best thing to do is disband the US military. While we're at it, disband the police as well.




I didnt actually see anyone say anything of the like. Thats a pretty weak tactic on your part.

So do you think the Spanish have put themselves at increased risk of terror attacks by voting in a government who are likely to withdraw troops from Iraq and take a more measured approach to terror? If so please enlighten me.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2463041 - 03/23/04 06:56 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I want my government to do what is necessary to have a good life for us. If that benefits others as well... good. If not... tough shit.




Is there a balance to do this i.e would it be acceptable to cause alot of problems for others to gain a small advantage for the US?


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2463328 - 03/23/04 10:48 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

post deleted by DoctorJ

(this post deserves its own thread )


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
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Native Dallas brick-chopper...


Edited by DoctorJ (03/23/04 11:14 AM)


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #2464263 - 03/23/04 04:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The best thing to do is disband the US military. While we're at it, disband the police as well.





OK, I get it, you're being sarcastic.

What do you think about my statement that the military is and always has been the world's most dangerous, heavily armed special interest group? Do you think its right that a pacifist such as myself should be forced to pay for the military through taxes and inflation?

I guess my opinion of the military has been heavily influenced by watching way too many old kung-fu movies. You know, the ones where the military is just a gang of thugs that take money by force from peaceful farmers and merchants so they can go conquer more villages? That's how it all started, folks.


--------------------
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SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2464554 - 03/23/04 05:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

DoctorJ writes:

What do you think about my statement that the military is and always has been the world's most dangerous, heavily armed special interest group?

Whose military?

Militaries are certainly heavily armed. There's no disputing that. And members of the military probably tend to vote differently on some issues than civilian voters would.

But as a "special interest group", members of Western militaries consistently get the shit end of the stick. The pay sucks, living conditions suck, the job is dangerous and often fatal (even in peacetime), you and your family get schlepped all over the country or even the world every six months to two years or so, you give up rights civilians possess... I could go on but I think by now most readers of this post are grasping that being a member of a heavily armed special interest group doesn't mean much.

Do you think its right that a pacifist such as myself should be forced to pay for the military through taxes and inflation?

I don't think it's right that anyone should be forced to pay for the military or for that matter the police and courts through taxes or inflation. I believe the legitimate functions of government should be funded through voluntary methods. In my opinion, a society unwilling to pay of their own volition for such essential services is a society too stupid to survive long anyway.

I guess my opinion of the military has been heavily influenced by watching way too many old kung-fu movies.

I really couldn't say.

pinky


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2465351 - 03/23/04 10:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Do you think its right that a pacifist such as myself should be forced to pay for the military through taxes and inflation?




You enjoy the benefits of their protection, therefore you should. Remember that you only have the right to speak your mind the way you want because of the people that have been violent or been willing to be in your and your fellow American's behalf to protect your freedoms.

Everyone love pacifists, especially tyrants.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2465364 - 03/23/04 10:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe he's not as afraid as you are.

Tyrants also love blind followers, especially violent ones.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2465397 - 03/23/04 10:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Tyrants also love blind followers, especially violent ones.




So right you are

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Maybe he's not as afraid as you are.




Exactly what am I afraid of? I don't get it.


--------------------
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2465422 - 03/23/04 10:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You enjoy the benefits of their protection, therefore you should.

Why would this be important unless you were afraid? Also would we need so much protection if it were not for alot of the things our military do/have done?

Canada doesn't seem to need much military protection. It doesn't have any enemies.

Also just because the military has in the past defended freedom doesn't mean that they do today. Today's military is even used to oppress the American people.


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2465455 - 03/23/04 10:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have no faith in the inherent goodness of man. I believe that people will try to test you if they perceive weakness. Our world is not yet entirely enlightened for us all to be in love with each other. I would say that I'm concerned about possible threats. Not everyone has a live and let live attitude.


--------------------
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2466078 - 03/24/04 01:40 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Where did you come up with the shit about all the soldiers being just like bullies? They are told to do something and they do it. If a bully wants to kick ur face in and take your lunch money he does it because he wants to, he enjoys kicking your face. A lot of these soldiers have to go to therapy because not all of them enjoy blowing brains out a daily basis. I'll probably have to join too cause there is noooo fuckin way I will be able to pay for my college costs. Now for all peaceful people, do you want to be muslim? Cause I wouldnt mind, and I wouldnt mind having 10 wives who i can slap around.

Ask any1 of the "terrorists" and they will tell that they WANT Islam everywhere, they want it to be in every fuckin house. Now a lot of you people don't want this, you want equality, well u wont get it. Personally I dont give a fuck about being a Muslim, shit, if I marry a muslim chick, id convert too...

Anyway, military is a neccessity for the protection of a country. Even though Japan has a small military they still have the USA behind them.

The military protects your cheap gas, cheap food, cheap dildos for your bitch, cheap everything, they kill people for that shit, so that you and your children can be nice and happy. It is the reality of the world, go back to wonderland where every1 is peacefull and equal and has a full belly.


--------------------



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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (03/24/04 01:43 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Military Propaganda *DELETED* [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2468635 - 03/24/04 07:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by pinksharkmark


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: ]
    #2468809 - 03/24/04 08:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

your moronic threats of violence are excellent evidence supporting my theory that the military is primarily composed of homicidally psychotic idiots. thank you for winning my arguement for me.

Quote:

*** here, a quote from a permabanned puppet was deleted by pinksharkmark***




fuck hippies. you dont know me.


BTW, if you killed me, you wouldn't live very long afterwards. My father used to work for military intelligence. Seriously, you have no idea who you are dealing with.

Why dont you just do the gene pool a favor and kill yourself? Soon we will have evolved enough not to need cretins like you.


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
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SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


Edited by pinksharkmark (03/24/04 11:10 PM)


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2472292 - 03/25/04 07:55 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Why dont you just do the gene pool a favor and kill yourself? Soon we will have evolved enough not to need cretins like you.




I don't even know what the other guy said so I'm not trying to defend them or anything, but do you honestly think that evolution is going to let a desireable trait die off. And if it does then do think that it will happen simultaneously with all life in the universe.(yes I believe that there is life out there)


--------------------
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2472689 - 03/25/04 11:40 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

People have fought for thousands and thousands of years. Every species fights for survival. You tree hugging mother fuckers still go nuts when you get pissed off, you still have the instinct to kill, so shut the fuck up. Go to the lab and make humans peacefull, oh, my bad, you're against that shit too. Bitches.


--------------------



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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (03/25/04 11:41 AM)


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