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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460838 - 03/22/04 04:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Anyone willing to support the killing of innocent civilians in order to make themselves theoretically safer is a coward and does not belong in the "home of the brave".


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2460851 - 03/22/04 05:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Had we just stayed here and done nothing, it would have emboldened them. They would've labeled us cowards, their suspicions proved, and we would likely begin to face a similar onslaught as Israel.





Hmmm. Seems the Spanish dont share your view on this one. They seem to think tsking a more passive and reasoned approach might be best. Are you saying the best thing the Spanish can do is to start kicking some muslim ass? This will ensure the terrorists know that they mean business so they wont try and bomb them again? (probabaly in revenge for all the muslims the spanish will have killed)


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2460862 - 03/22/04 05:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone willing to support the killing of innocent civilians in order to make themselves theoretically safer is a coward and does not belong in the "home of the brave". 




:thumbup:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2461232 - 03/22/04 06:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The best thing to do is disband the US military. While we're at it, disband the police as well.

Then the Jihadists will see there is no possible threat to them, and they will achieve their ends through peaceful dialogue.

pinky


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #2461258 - 03/22/04 07:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How would we then be able to hide behind small children like Americans are wont to do?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2461296 - 03/22/04 07:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

No, no. You don't get it. There would be no need to hide behind children or even shrubbery. The Jihadists would stop using violence. So would rapists and muggers and serial killers, because there would be no more cops holding them down.

pinky


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: GazzBut]
    #2461302 - 03/22/04 07:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Check out the incoming Spanish regime's response to ETA's overtures for dialogue. They will accept nothing short of full disarmament. Their response to their own fight is hardline. They just don't want to help us in ours. And that's OK. They have their problems and we have ours, and a significant amount of the rest of the world's. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I think a significant reason that we have a target on our backs is the perception in certain quarters that we lacked backbone and would never act. Vietnam caused tremendous damage. It was wrong and very many boys were killed. Never forget that the people in charge then had fought in WW2 and for some reason thought that we could never be wrong. WW2 drove us into Vietnam and for some reason that made many people think that we could never be right. Vietnam prevented us from acting for decades after, even when it would have been right. Neither position is correct


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Phred]
    #2461360 - 03/22/04 07:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There was this guy in my hometown that robbed a bank so they blew up his house with missiles and killed him and his neighbors. That's justice American style.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2461549 - 03/22/04 08:55 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So you can remain idealistic and try and change human nauture, we need it, but in order for you to remain alive while you do this, you need realists who are willing to protect you.





have you ever considered the possibility that those "realists" are selling themselves (and their society) short?

Quote:

But it all boils down to the fact that there are people in this world that are intent on using aggressions as a means to achieve their goals.




Which is exactly what I'm against. Whether it is us or them makes no difference. "He started it" is an excuse used by five year olds, not grown men.

Quote:

If you can wave your magic wand and suddenly make everyone feel the same way all at once then problem solved. But since we can't it's going to take a gradual change.




I agree that the change must be gradual. But I still refuse to respect the decision of those who choose to perpetuate this cycle of death and destruction, even if they are on "my side." My side does not include violence.

Quote:

But don't preach your message at the expense of those who keep you safe.




I am capable of protecting myself, thank you very much.

And let me add that if there were a violent invasion of our borders, I would be first to sign up to defend my country. (Unless of course the invasion was justified somehow) But there hasnt been an attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor (except for 9-11, which couldnt have been prevented by raw military force anyway- it was an internal security issue stemming from the fact that most Americans are dimwitted and unaware of what is going on in their world. However, I do beieve that 9-11 could have been prevented by our intelligence agencies if they had wanted to prevent it)


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2461905 - 03/22/04 10:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Anyone willing to support the killing of innocent civilians in order to make themselves theoretically safer is a coward and does not belong in the "home of the brave".




So you would rather it be our innocent civilians killed then?

I in no way said I support killing civilians.

As long as we are over there, we are diverting their attention. We are right in their base of operations, and much more of their resources are spent just hiding from us. And if we're lucky since it's their peers who would suffer from large scale attacks, they might think twice.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (03/22/04 11:34 PM)


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2462448 - 03/23/04 01:06 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:

Its about every individual who picks up a gun with the intention to use force to get his way. Whether its for the government of the US, China, Al-queda, or the neighborhood gang makes no difference. I lay the responsibility for violence solely at the feet of those who commit it. It doesnt matter whether they were ordered to or wether they had the best of intentions. They are guilty of violence regardless of the situation.






So what! I do this everytime I fire a round into a deer or some other defenseless creature in order to procure food that I don't absolutely need. I get violent to get the things that I want some times. So do others. So do many animals in the world. I'm fairly certain that when we finally meet our galactic neighbors, that they will as well. What we need to do is just realize that everything can't be hunky dory all of the time and get on with our lives or our deaths as it seems some are closer than others. You may not mind giving up your life as long as you don't have to hurt anything else, but I believe in a little thing called self preservation. It's what I believe will allow me to very easily take action against an aggressor.

I don't like the current politically motivated military actions our government has taken lately but I do love our servicemen and women. Many of the ones that I served with would probably agree with you that joining the military was the stupidest thing that they have ever done. I know that I certainly did while I was in. It wasn't because I might have to kill someone(I think I have already made it clear above that killing is not an issue for me when it comes to survival), but rather the fact that I was very possibly going to have to put my life on the line for people that didn't give a rat's ass about me and didn't even have the same views as I did.

When the world is free from violence and peace reigns on earth, I'm betting that there will be somebody out there ready to take over by force and I just hope that there will be someone that's prepared for it and is willing to fight back.

You can thank him/her if you survive.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2462849 - 03/23/04 03:46 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So you would rather it be our innocent civilians killed then?




The life of an American isn't worth any more than that of anyone from any other country.

America lost almost 3000 people in the 9/11 attack. How many people have we killed in our retaliation for that attack?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462860 - 03/23/04 03:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I disagree. I want my government to treat the lives of Americans as far more important than those of other countries.

I want my government to do what is necessary to have a good life for us. If that benefits others as well... good. If not... tough shit.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462866 - 03/23/04 03:59 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Such a country would deserve to be destroyed.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462870 - 03/23/04 04:02 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Not at all. Should the sad day of a world government ever arrive, let them worry about it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462879 - 03/23/04 04:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Attitudes like yours make a world government less of a bad idea.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462882 - 03/23/04 04:09 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Attitudes like yours make a world government less of a bad idea.



Actually, my attitude is quite good. Don't fuck with other countries, don't let them fuck with us. Look out for #1 while doing no deliberate harm to others.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462887 - 03/23/04 04:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I wish we would cut all support of Israel completely and permanently. Maybe that would also have the side effect of making us safer.

I don't want to do it for security reasons, I want to do it because fuck Israel.

Maybe we could drop a bomb or two on them on the way out the door as well.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2462889 - 03/23/04 04:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I dislike foreign aid to anybody.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Military Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2462905 - 03/23/04 04:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)



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