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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Cacti changing rib count.
#24484481 - 07/15/17 05:48 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've had a few cacti change rib count over the years but had multiples do it this year. Usually it was a 1 rib jump but I had a 6 ribber change over to a 4 ribber. It got me wondering why they would do that. Anyone ever have a cacti jump rib count, or have any hypothesis on why in it's little cacti brain it would feel the need to do that?

This one's still debating on what it wants to be when it grows up..
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Grey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,654
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Amanita86] 1
#24484506 - 07/15/17 06:19 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have several that have shifted ribs over time. It seems to be fairly common with these cacti. I'm not sure why they do it. I have a few of the Altman's Semi Monstrose Pachanoi and that clone shifts ribs A LOT.
That tall bridgesii in your first photo is a unique and beautiful plant. It looks very healthy. Well done.
-------------------- IT WAS ALL A DREAM
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Lemnaminor
Lophophora - eyed



Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Grey Fox] 1
#24484558 - 07/15/17 07:10 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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rib count is due may factors : Age, fertilization, genetics and many others. but possibly one of the most intresting factors is sunlight income. Ribs are a way to shade itself, while more ribs mean less sun. it could mean that your cactus is getting not enought sun or, just that it can bear more sun that it already does.
I have many trichs and i currently have 2 T bridgesii that have 4 ribs. one from losing it's 5th rib, and one from a new 4 rib pup. flolklore says that 4 ribs bridgesii lead to terrible and most potent trips, but it's just folklore as i said. Among trichs, only bridgesii happens to go 4 rib configuration, as pachanoi and peruvianus, usually have a higher rib count. be happy your trich has become a 4 rib Bridgesii. it is a very beautifull exemplar!
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      "The best things in life, come covered in spines."
Edited by Lemnaminor (07/15/17 07:11 AM)
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Lemnaminor]
#24484575 - 07/15/17 07:30 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Ribs are a way to shade itself, while more ribs mean less sun"
Huh. I would have thought more ribs would equal more surface area = more sun absorbtion. The only factor that's really changed is that I repotted them, they were really rootbound in the origional pots I used to root them from the cuttings I got them as. One thing I was thinking was that they may have been in bonsai mode and then in a flash put into pots where grow level went to optimum so it may have made them stumble a little. They all went a little wonky at that point.
I've heard some folklore about the 4 ribs. I'd never heard about the "terrible" part. The one 4 rib I did ingest was one of the smoothest and cleanest experiences I've had with a cactus, however I only took a taster of 5-6 inches of a rather skinny one so there may be something to that potency thing. The scientist in me says it was probably just my head thinking that and they're probably as potent as any other random bridge. It was remarkably clean though, a definate keeper. What I read was about their symbolism in regards to the 4 winds.
My only other 4 ribber. He decided to blob out for whatever reason.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Amanita86] 1
#24484584 - 07/15/17 07:39 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thats a 'melted wax' bridgesii.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Oh yeah? I've heard those mentioned before. There's a little section near the base where it looks like it kind of did that before but it's been relatively smooth up until now. Did it convert just recently or does it go back and forth with it's blobbing? I haven't really read up on them too much since I didnt expect to have one.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Amanita86] 1
#24484621 - 07/15/17 08:03 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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The melted wax is jist like it sounds. Its a different monstrose of bridgesii. Grows very weird and highly coveted.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Mine always put out less ribs with less sunlight.
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"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: El Torcho] 1
#24484698 - 07/15/17 09:05 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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6 ribs

7 ribs

8 ribs

All on the same plant. Different pups and shade grown. Now the one with 8 ribs was grown in diffuse shade. The rest got their start in mostly sun til i put the pot under my oak tree.
I guess El Torcho makes a good observation.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Wow that's nuts they're all on the same plant. I can't recall ever seeing an 8 ribber before. 
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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A Stoned Fungi
Avid Jellyfisher



Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 90
Loc: Cali
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Lemnaminor] 4
#24488217 - 07/16/17 07:25 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
having a pleated surface keeps the shoot from having a minimum S/V ratio, so transpirational surface area is not as low as possible. But the surface area is also important for light absorption, and having a pleated surface increases the amount of light that can be absorbed as well as gives the shoot an ability to contract and expand. As you might guess, the number and height of ribs are important factors: many tall ribs can expand more than a few short ribs. A curious aspect of ribs that is not immediately obvious is that whereas the total surface area of a set of ribs is affected by both the number and height of the ribs, the total volume of water-storage tissues located within the set of ribs is determined only by their height, not by their number. If the number of ribs on a shoot is doubled, then surface area is doubled but the width of the base of each must be reduced to half, so each rib will have half the volume of an original rib. Thus, having numerous ribs of a certain height allows more light absorption (and water loss) than does having fewer ribs of the same height. It might be that stem-succulents of drier habitats would have fewer ribs whereas those of more mesic ones would have more ribs, but this still needs to be examined.
http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/mauseth/ResearchOnCacti/cortex%20text.htm
I think the main factor is the width and height of the cactus. The ribs allow the plants to swell with water intake without splitting and as the cortex changes in size so must the ribs. The increase in ribs normally increases the amount of photosynthesis.
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California Mushrooms
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sharpie117
Living the dream

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 461
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Not sure if its relevant but thought I'd share.
I have been playing around with this graft for awhile now.

It has been growing with one light source 90 degrees from the top of the plant. It looks like a bit of a mess now but watching the growth point it adds and drops ribs constantly on the side of the plant facing the light while the other side remains relatively normal.
To repeat the experiment i have recently rotated the plant 180. Growth has stabilized on the deformed side and the other side is now starting to grow and drop ribs.
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Here's this one. What do you suppose it's doing? All this weird growth happened at once to multiple cacti. The major condition change is going from highly root bound small pots to big pots where they have more than enough room. I'm wondering if the growth spurts took off before the cacti "brain" could switch out of bonsai mode.

@ stonedfungi, hella post. I've been pondering on this the past day since you posted it.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Amanita86] 1
#24491071 - 07/18/17 06:55 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe it has fukurokyryuzinboku aspirations like a transvestite.
No but seriously, your theory seems very fitting. Conditions changed for all of them... the genetics definitely didn't.
..
So the blobbing could also be seen as a constant switch between number of ribs / some mutants have a genetic predisposition to regularly change number of ribs? Looking at it like that seems to explain why most mutants afaik seem to fall into categories like cristate or kinds of monstrose, rather than an endless variety of uncategorizable cronenbergs.
Edited by Solipsis (07/18/17 07:17 AM)
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Entheopsybin
Living Entity



Registered: 03/10/15
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Re: Cacti changing rib count. [Re: Amanita86]
#24529132 - 08/04/17 05:20 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thats so cool I'm yet to see mine do that
-------------------- One of the most famous of all alchemical axions is, "As Above, So Below"
✡✠ॐ☪︎☯︎ Meaning always, that in every small part of reality, there is a tiny reflection of the great over-structure of reality, and in the largest structures, are hidden the secrets of the smallest, and vice versa - Terence Mckenna -
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