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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2449325 - 03/18/04 11:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Then you haven't been here long.... :smirk:

Guns are Fun!!!!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: afoaf]
    #2449472 - 03/18/04 11:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Guns are fun. I love shooting targets, and other crap like broken tv's


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2451666 - 03/19/04 03:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Because it is my right to do so. I don't think I need any more reason or justification.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2451677 - 03/19/04 03:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I plan on getting my gun licence and buying a few shotguns and rifles.

Why?

I'm fairly certain we're living in the decline of western society, and I'd like to have some personal protection for when things get really bad. Until that day I'll keep them locked in a safe, unloaded.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451814 - 03/19/04 04:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, get a license so that when they decide to ban firearms they will know who house to go to.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2451838 - 03/19/04 04:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Yes, get a license so that when they decide to ban firearms they will know who house to go to.



If you go by that logic, then why not just buy the gun illegally on the black market?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2451853 - 03/19/04 04:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Here in Canada you can't purchase firearms or ammunition without a gun licence.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451903 - 03/19/04 04:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And for the record: I don't think that a gun licence is a bad thing at all. Guns are dangerous. Plain and simple.

Can you drive a car without a licence? No. Why? Because cars are dangerous and a person who does not know how to safely operate a vehicle could injure or kill other people.

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.

So here in Canada, you are required to take a course on gun safety then pass a test to prove that you know how to safely store and operate firearms. Then you can go buy your guns. I don't see anything wrong with that.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451953 - 03/19/04 05:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Here in Canada you can't purchase firearms or ammunition without a gun licence.



:lol:

Does that mean you can't purchase "illegal" drugs without a license as well?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451971 - 03/19/04 05:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
And for the record: I don't think that a gun licence is a bad thing at all.



Nope. Not as long (as was pointed out earlier) you don't mind giving a road map to your house when the government comes looking for you.


Quote:

Guns are dangerous. Plain and simple.



No, people are dangerous. Guns are merely inanimate objects.


Quote:

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.



Nah. Compare the rate of deaths per car owned against the rate of deaths per gun owned and I suspect you'll see a far different picture.

Quote:

So here in Canada, you are required to take a course on gun safety then pass a test to prove that you know how to safely store and operate firearms. Then you can go buy your guns. I don't see anything wrong with that.



See above.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/19/04 05:21 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2451999 - 03/19/04 05:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

deaths per car owned and deaths per gun owned
is a terrible comparison.

how many people shoot their guns for at least
2 hours a day 7 days a week among hundreds
of other people doing the same thing?

and in the states, you have to have a license to
buy a gun, don't you? I mean, I had to take that
stupid test to get my safety license....is that the
license we're talking about here?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452003 - 03/19/04 05:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

trendal said:
And for the record: I don't think that a gun licence is a bad thing at all.



Nope. Not as long (as was pointed out earlier) you don't mind giving a road map to your house when the government comes looking for you.



The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down. How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?

Quote:

Quote:

Guns are dangerous. Plain and simple.



No, people are dangerous. Guns are merely inanimate objects.



A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).

Quote:

Quote:

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.



Nah. Compare the rate of deaths per car owned against the rate of deaths per gun owned and I suspect you'll see a far different picture.



Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands. I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: afoaf]
    #2452020 - 03/19/04 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
deaths per car owned and deaths per gun owned
is a terrible comparison.



Not in response to this:
Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.


Quote:

how many people shoot their guns for at least
2 hours a day 7 days a week among hundreds
of other people doing the same thing?



Not the same thing. Then you'd be comparing deaths per mile driven vs. deaths per round fired. In that case the numbers would probably be even more in favor of guns being safer.

Quote:

and in the states, you have to have a license to
buy a gun, don't you?



Not all of them Where I live you have to have a license to carry concealed. Not to purchase, not to carry openly. An instant background check is done but that's not the same thing as a license.


Quote:

I mean, I had to take that
stupid test to get my safety license....is that the
license we're talking about here?



As I said, depends on the state.

Even in states where one is required it often doesn't apply to private sales or transfers between family members.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: automan]
    #2452035 - 03/19/04 05:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

automan said:
i own over 20 shotguns, muzzle loaders, handguns, and rifles because they have been passed down in my family.




Oh, well, the only reason I said "no inheritance" is because some people might dislike firearms, but grandpappy left them one, and it's rotting in the closet. Bah, this poll is all fucked up. BTw, where ya been in the cult evador channel on irc recently, we miss ya.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2452046 - 03/19/04 05:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
I own my Ruger 10/22 w/ volquartsen muzzle weighted barrel and 3-9 x 40mm simmons scope for target shooting and squirrel hunting.

I own my Ruger 10/22 w/ bullpup stock, 50 rd drum magazine, and scope for hunting and as a neat little very functional oddity.




I heart my 10/22.  They are great for anything, and ammo is cheap.
Quote:


I own my SKS for deer hunting and plinking. I'm looking forward to replacing the original wood stock with a synthetic camouflage stock and replace the factory 10 rd magazine with a flush mount 5 round.




Choate (might be spelled wrong) makes a stock that looks like the dragnov stock, but it's totally Kevlar.  It's bad-ass :smile:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452051 - 03/19/04 05:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down.



Holy shit man, the gov tracks you down because of the paper trail, which is exactly what a license to purchase a gun is. The trail head. If there is no license to purchase, there is no trail head when they want to confiscate your guns.Thanks for making my point.

Quote:

How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?



See above.

Quote:

A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).



So is a person with a knife or baseball bat. Or even a car.

Quote:

Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands.



No shit?


Quote:

I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



Me neither. It's just the govs involvement I have a problem with. What if they decide that the hands of college students are the wrong hands? Or women? Or newspaper editors who print articles they don't like?

I'd like to see some people that are careless not get guns. How would a course weed them out when most people are capable of behaving well for at least limited periods of time? And how do you deal with the black market? Pass more laws than the 14,000 already on the books?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/19/04 05:46 PM)


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452064 - 03/19/04 05:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down. How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?




I think that he meant that the "invaders" would know where to find gun owners. Good job missing the point, I'm proud of you!
Quote:


A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).




Yes, but if person A with the gun is planning on using it on innocent people, and person B happens to be in the nearby vicinity with his gun, he can stop person A from using theirs.
Quote:


Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands. I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



you used the word "nonetheless", as if a car isn't dangerous in teh wrong hands. If I am intelligent and well versed in firearm shooting and a convicted felon for armed robbery, i'd still be someone who knows how to safely use a firearm, so you'd think I should own guns right? OH, now it's the time where you re-say this, and blame it on me for not reading your mind. Wow, this seems familiar, glitch in the MAtrix I guess.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452104 - 03/19/04 06:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down.



Holy shit man, the gov tracks you down because of the paper trail, which is exactly what a license to purchase a gun is. The trail head. If there is no license to purchase, there is no trail head when they want to confiscate your guns.Thanks for making my point.



I think the issue here is the right to keep and bear arms, not the right to not have the government know about it. When they come to confiscate your guns(and by that I don't mean preventing you from future purchases), let me know. Also, requiring a license to purchase a gun doesn't mean tracking every gun purchase you make, just as requiring ID to buy alcohol doesn't mean tracking every one of those purchases.

Quote:

Quote:

A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).



So is a person with a knife or baseball bat. Or even a car.



And to drive a car, you need a license. Also, guns are more dangerous as weapons than baseball bats.

Quote:

Quote:

I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



Me neither. It's just the govs involvement I have a problem with. What if they decide that the hands of college students are the wrong hands? Or women? Or newspaper editors who print articles they don't like?



That's why you have a standardized safety test, so that they don't discriminate by occupation, gender, race, etc.

Quote:

I'd like to see some people that are careless not get guns. How would a course weed them out when most people are capable of behaving well for at least limited periods of time? And how do you deal with the black market? Pass more laws than the 14,000 already on the books?



If someone doesn't know basic gun safety they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Plain and simple. As for the black market, if idiots want to purchase a gun illegally and end up shooting their children by accident, then they get charged with both manslaughter and owning a gun without a license.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452125 - 03/19/04 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway.  Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down.  How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?




I think that he meant that the "invaders" would know where to find gun owners.  Good job missing the point, I'm proud of you!



What "invaders" are you talking about?  Black people, I presume? :smirk:

Quote:

Quote:


A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).




Yes, but if person A with the gun is planning on using it on innocent people, and person B happens to be in the nearby vicinity with his gun, he can stop person A from using theirs.



Which is why I don't support banning guns.  I just support requiring the people who buy them to demonstrate that they know how to use them properly.

Quote:

Quote:


Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands.  I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



you used the word "nonetheless", as if a car isn't dangerous in teh wrong hands.  If I am intelligent and well versed in firearm shooting and a convicted felon for armed robbery, i'd still be someone who knows how to safely use a firearm, so you'd think I should own guns right? OH, now it's the time where you re-say this, and blame it on me for not reading your mind. Wow, this seems familiar, glitch in the MAtrix I guess.



Of course a car is dangerous in the wrong hands.  That's why they require you to get a license to drive one, just as they should require a license to have a firearm.  And just because I want people to know gun safety to purchase a gun doesn't mean I support violent felons owning firearms.  Take a course in logic sometime, okay? :smile:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452232 - 03/19/04 06:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I think the issue here is the right to keep and bear arms, not the right to not have the government know about it.
Quote:


As we were talking about licenses, it is the point that a paper trail of your purchase now exists.



Quote:

When they come to confiscate your guns(and by that I don't mean preventing you from future purchases), let me know.



I won't need to.


Quote:

Also, requiring a license to purchase a gun doesn't mean tracking every gun purchase you make, just as requiring ID to buy alcohol doesn't mean tracking every one of those purchases.



It's apparent you've never bought a gun. Read up on Form 4473.


Quote:


And to drive a car, you need a license. Also, guns are more dangerous as weapons than baseball bats.



Weak. You don't need a license to purchase a car.

Quote:


That's why you have a standardized safety test, so that they don't discriminate by occupation, gender, race, etc.



Weaker. Perhaps then you'd care to explain why in areas of the country police are allowed to decide who gets permits? And perhaps you'd then tell us why celebs and friends of those who issue the licences get them but others do not?

Perhaps a little research on the terms "may issue" and "must issue" will clear things up for you.

Quote:

If someone doesn't know basic gun safety they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Plain and simple. As for the black market, if idiots want to purchase a gun illegally and end up shooting their children by accident, then they get charged with both manslaughter and owning a gun without a license.



Again with the "allowed to own a gun". When the gov can decide who is allowed and who isn't, there is no telling when they will stop.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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