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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't
    #2451690 - 03/19/04 03:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've noticed myself becoming more and more libertarian over the course of my time on this board. I was always a social libertarian in that I supported legalization of drugs, gambling, and prostitution, and now I also oppose gun control for the most part. Fiscally, I have become more conservative. I still support some forms of welfare, but with great reservation, and the belief that it is, at best, a necessary evil. I have grown to deeply distrust the government, and I generally agree now with those who say that more government is not the answer. I believe that many of the problems with associated with capitalism are actually due to the pseudo-capitalism we have today, which essentially corporate socialism. I believe that many of the problems we have with corporate power in the U.S. could be solved if we stopped recognizing corporate personhood.

Still, I believe that Kerry is a better candidate than Bush, that freedom of speech is more important than the right to bear arms, that the environment is more important than tax breaks, that capitalism can't solve everything, that the pre-emptive doctrine is wrong, that the UN should not be taken for granted, that America should not be the world's police force, that Israel is too big a liability for us, that diplomacy is better than force, and that America doesn't always know better than everyone else. Thus, while I have some more conservative views now, my priorities still compell me to side more with the liberals than with the conservatives.

Has anyone else's views changed since coming here?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2451756 - 03/19/04 03:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Not yet, but I haven't been here long.

I agree with alot of your positions.

I will vote for Kerry not because I agree with what he stands for, or even know what he stands for individually, but because he is a Democrat. I hate what Bush and the Republican controlled congress have done with their power. From the DMCA to the PATRIOT act to the war in Iraq and a million things in between, the Bush and co. has insured that my vote will go to his Democratic opponent.


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: phi1618]
    #2451767 - 03/19/04 03:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Vote Libertarian.

If I were an American citizen, I would.

pinky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: Phred]
    #2451771 - 03/19/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Vote Libertarian.

If I were an American citizen, I would.

pinky



I might consider voting Libertarian when it comes to local elections. I feel that with national elections, especially the one coming up, there's just too much at stake to vote third party.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2451930 - 03/19/04 05:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I've noticed myself becoming more and more libertarian over the course of my time on this board.  I was always a social libertarian in that I supported legalization of drugs, gambling, and prostitution, and now I also oppose gun control for the most part.  Fiscally, I have become more conservative.  I still support some forms of welfare, but with great reservation, and the belief that it is, at best, a necessary evil.  I have grown to deeply distrust the government, and I generally agree now with those who say that more government is not the answer.  I believe that many of the problems with associated with capitalism are actually due to the pseudo-capitalism we have today, which essentially corporate socialism.  I believe that many of the problems we have with corporate power in the U.S. could be solved if we stopped recognizing corporate personhood.



For the most part a hearty  :thumbup:


Quote:

Still, I believe that Kerry is a better candidate than Bush, that freedom of speech is more important than the right to bear arms,


The right to bear arm helps to ensure the freedom of speech.


Quote:

that the environment is more important than tax breaks,



Both are important.


Quote:

that capitalism can't solve everything,



Nothing can but capitalism is your best bet.


Quote:

that the pre-emptive doctrine is wrong,



Depends on too many factors to give a blanket "wrong".


Quote:

that the UN should not be taken for granted,



The UN is a good idea gone horribly wrong.


Quote:

that America should not be the world's police force,



:thumbup:


Quote:

that Israel is too big a liability for us,



Not quite yet but it sure seems that way sometimes.


Quote:

that diplomacy is better than force,



To a point.


Quote:

and that America doesn't always know better than everyone else.



Well not always.


Quote:

  Thus, while I have some more conservative views now, my priorities still compell me to side more with the liberals than with the conservatives.



Give it time.

In the meantime, congrats on the personal growth!

Quote:

Has anyone else's views changed since coming here?



I've gone further to the right after seeing such blatant bullshit and hypocrisy from the left leaning posters.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/19/04 05:11 PM)


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
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Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452457 - 03/19/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My views have definately shifted closer to center from the left. Alot of that has to do with less and less trust in the government which people from this site provide much of. But another large part was after taking some economics classes and seeing how the market is able to regulate itself for the most part( not completely).

Also- I credit "bowling for Columbine" for making my gun control veiws loosen up.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #2452670 - 03/19/04 09:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Also- I credit "bowling for Columbine" for making my gun control veiws loosen up.



Me too. Funny how some people think that movie demonizes guns.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452820 - 03/19/04 10:11 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The right to bear arm helps to ensure the freedom of speech.




Only if you are willing to use your guns against your government.


--------------------


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2452904 - 03/19/04 10:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

The right to bear arm helps to ensure the freedom of speech.




Only if you are willing to use your guns against your government.



And even then, only if you can beat them.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453175 - 03/20/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Here are couple of libertarian oriented sites that you might find interesting. They're not apologists for corporatism, nor are they promoters of the endless warfare state.

The Democratic Freedom Caucus is a caucus of the Democratic Party. I suggest that you read 'Principles of the DFC' and 'Platform.' There is some overlap between the two, but they're not very long.

The Geolibertarian Home Page provides an interesting take on libertarianism. I suggest that you read the links provided for 'ROYAL Libertarians' and 'Green and Libertarian parties.'


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2453178 - 03/20/04 01:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've gone further to the right after seeing such blatant bullshit and hypocrisy from the left leaning posters.

Same here. Although I'm still an Independent.

Both sides are bad, and yet people have to take a side for some reason and completely hate the other side without seeing things with an objective view.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinevalour
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Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1,453
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2453277 - 03/20/04 02:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've shifted significantly to the left after seeing the same shit from the "Right".
Which makes me much more centered, since I started out more on the right.
(Please tell me to leave America if I don't agree with you.)

The shroomery itself hasn't had a major impact on that, it's just the shift that's taken place since I started coming here.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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Offlinejimsuzo
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Registered: 08/14/02
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453560 - 03/20/04 05:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I might consider voting Libertarian when it comes to local elections. I feel that with national elections, especially the one coming up, there's just too much at stake to vote third party.




From what I can tell, you're a pretty smart guy & that you realize that 3rd party candidates have to start winning enough votes (I think 5%)to get federal campaign funding. Until that happens, we've got very little chance at having anything other than a Republicrap or Demoshit president. Consider which state you live in, who the expected winner will be, and by what margin. If it's a state where either candidate (Bush or Kerry) is expected to win by a large margin, you should vote your conscience - VOTE 3rd PARTY!


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million


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Anonymous

Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453616 - 03/20/04 07:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My political leanings are all over the place but I'm mostly on the left. I'm probably similar to SS7.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,266
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453621 - 03/20/04 07:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Not really...although I'm not as far to the left as I used to be, but that was long before I found the 'Shroomery and these forums. Now I'm more a bit left of center.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2453629 - 03/20/04 07:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Only if you are willing to use your guns against your government.



I am if necessary.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: Murex]
    #2453630 - 03/20/04 07:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Same here. Although I'm still an Independent.



And I'm a Libertarian.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: Evolving]
    #2454381 - 03/20/04 03:07 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the links, Evolving. Very interesting indeed.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2454408 - 03/20/04 03:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Only if you are willing to use your guns against your government.



I am if necessary.




yeah, thats gonna do a lot of good.  You and your hillbilly friends with chinese AK47's with the firing pin sawed off riding around on ATVs and communicating with walkie talkies are really a threat to our government's massive military industrial complex and nuclear arsenal.  :rolleyes:

Sorry, I dont mean to generalize, I dont know if you belong to a militia, but a lot of my dad's clients do, and that description fits them pretty well.  They actually think they have a snowball's chance in hell of putting up a resistance to the government with their puny weapons, small numbers, and inferior organization.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: My Views Have Changed, My Affiliation Hasn't [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2454436 - 03/20/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It seems to me that the only way to conduct an effective revolution would involve certain terrorist tactics such as car bombs and assassinations. And of course you realize what the government can do to you once they label you a terrorist...

Of course, a revolution can't truly succeed if it doesn't have the support of the people. We're still a long way from having a majority of Americans supporting such a revolution.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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