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OfflineDrMushroom
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ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm
    #24516543 - 07/29/17 06:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

this is not for practical application, i realize that this would involve among other things using combinations of nitrogen compounds and liquid sugars together which is practically begging for contams even under strict sterile methods.

i got to thinking about how much waste  matter is left over after grains are partially digested, if you know how LAMNA works, the equation for perfect combustion of fuel in an engine, consider this similar for mushrooms, you have compounds X Y and Z that make up a grain, the mushroom always requires 3:1:10 lets say, but the grain is made of 2:5:7, resulting in waste.

If, and this is hypothetical i cant stress that enough, we measured out say, the fuel requirements exactly (like sugars and carbs), and went slightly over the nutrients (generally non infectious compounds like vitamins and minerals) would it be possible to produce similar results from the same volume of substrate, as with an ideal grain spawned substrate of the same volume?
so, verm soaked in liquid mushroom nutrient vs the same volume of spawned substrate, but of whatever the best is that normal practices have to offer for that given mushroom. Doesnt neccesarily need to be cubes, i just mean for mushrooms in general.

Its something ive been wondering about, undoubtedly sourcing a perfect liquid mix that does not leave enough leftovers to allow for non-parasitic contamination would be much more costly than the <$1/Kg for grains we use, but, ive just been wondering this because by the time substrate has been exhausted, theres always whole, seemingly untouched grains all up in there, and they always contaminate if not in the grow environment then outdoors in the dumping grounds.
I wonder why those leftovers were there, what was it that prevented them from being used, was it the mycelium simply could not process these solids, or were other elements limited preventing their consumption, things like minerals or vitamins, or specific carbohydrates.
In humans for instance, last i checked, we cant process fat without using certain proteins, which during starvation are pulled from muscle tissue, which is the reason why during a fasting of sorts you are always advised to still have a protein source to prevent muscle reduction.

I figure theres a similar reason for this unused mass in grains.


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InvisiblePastywhyteM
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: DrMushroom]
    #24516569 - 07/29/17 06:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Verm is expensive. But there are other ways to achieve a really high BE over multiple flushes. Brf and verm is probably one of the most nutrient rich. Any flour provides good nutrition but, many become doughy when mixed with verm. I like straw for unbroken bulk colonies but there are lots of options.


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Offlinerider420
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #24516610 - 07/29/17 07:19 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No because the texture of the substrate would not be conductive to fruiting. Waste is natural part of life, trying to eliminate it completely is a waste of time like trying to sterilize rather then just sanitizing.

BTW grain produce natural antifungal agents that is the primary reason some grain never gets used by the shrooms.


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Invisiblemynakedrat
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: rider420]
    #24517580 - 07/30/17 09:27 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Guess it depends where you live. I have the largest bag of verm, almost my size, that I got for about 9 dollars at home Depot. I'll never use it all and. Give it away all the time.
Making a casing, sub, and pseudo casing layer with verm sucked!
It eats up all the water, messes with surface conditions, and you just can't tell what's up because there is little color change.
Look at the grow in my sig, you'll see how I almost killed my. Best grow with a large verm casing in a unmodded tub.


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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: DrMushroom]
    #24517692 - 07/30/17 11:02 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

comoletely dissolve malt extract in water then make a PF cake with your malt water...

Plenty of Australian people have grown shrooms with what they have available. Instead of asking a hypothetical question every day why not start trying stuff.


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #24518788 - 07/30/17 07:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

because
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Instead of asking a hypothetical question every day why not start trying stuff.




Because
1; if its not hypothetical the tek nazis come and have a hissy fit because its not an established tek
2; im legitimately just curious about this but i have no intention to apply it because it would be a waste of time and resources, plus i dont know all the soluble nutrients needed to totally replace BRF.


Since others around here are more experienced in mycology, i felt it would be a good idea to ask based on their experiences, instead of spending years and a shitload of cash in research and resources.


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InvisiblePodamous
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: DrMushroom]
    #24518831 - 07/30/17 08:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

To me, you're describing liquid culture that could be fully colonized [#Simplified]. A nutrient Slurpee, they barely work on humans and would perform the same on mycelium. Is it possible yes, ridiculous... unfortunately. Love the outside thinking but it wouldn't do any good to research. Sidenote, Are you really getting that much un-colonized grains? I've never had that noticable amount of un-touched grains from my experience.


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: Podamous]
    #24519025 - 07/30/17 09:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

no its not that, i literally just wondered about it. Just to clarify, this would be verm hydrated with a highly nutritous LC like liquid, not just sugars but also whichever vitamins and minerals are present in BRF or others, just anything soluble.

I was very literal about this being hypothetical, i have no intention to apply this in reality, i really REALLY, HONESTLY, just was genuinely curious.


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InvisiblePastywhyteM
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Re: ignoring wether one should, COULD you grow cubes from 100% liquid nutrient soaked in verm [Re: DrMushroom]
    #24519062 - 07/30/17 09:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No offense but hypothetical has little intrest for me. If it cannot be applied in real life it's nothing more than masturbation as far as I'm concerned. No methods are developed solely in hypothesis.

Basically we need a supply of water, nutrition, and a platform to support colonization and fruit development. It just so happens that the methods commonly used satisfy those conditions quite well.

Synthetic spawn is pretty much what you are describing (just without verm) but seems to not really have taken off in the commercial world.


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