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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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ID in the Ohio Valley. Edit: Not Caerulipes, probably Pluteus Cyanopus
#24512018 - 07/27/17 03:05 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Habitat: Found growing up through leaves on a slope in deciduous woods. Mostly oak, maple, buckeye, and beech. Gills: Light tan. Not attached.
Stem: 2" long. 1/8" in diameter. Brown with lighter stripes running along it. Fairly stiff and durable. Solid. Bruised light blue within seconds of picking. More bruising developed from handling.
Cap: 1" in diameter. Light brown with light radial stripes/tears. Very conical shape. Blue bruising around perimeter and where the stem was.
Spore print color: In progress.
Bruising: Very lightly in seconds after scratching. Much darker an hour later.




Edited by 5alamander (07/31/17 03:20 PM)
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ChRnZN
Din of Doom


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 6,265
Loc: ADK
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#24512041 - 07/27/17 03:13 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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That is not a psilocybe. You can see the difference in gill formation if you compare your pic to P. Caerulipes -
P. Caerulipes

Your find

You might have found something like a psathyrella species, but I could be very wrong.
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: ChRnZN]
#24512116 - 07/27/17 03:54 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I thought the gills seemed light, but the description says "they are light brown at first, becoming rusty cinnamon as the spores mature."
Several observations on Mushroom Observer from the same general area have light gills as well.
http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/53918?obs=24357&q=872D http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/360744?obs=143663&q=877J http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/358663?obs=143046&q=86QO
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ChRnZN
Din of Doom


Registered: 12/21/08
Posts: 6,265
Loc: ADK
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#24512152 - 07/27/17 04:10 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not talking about differences in color I'm talking about differences in structure. Gills of P. Caerulipes do not bend upwards so dramatically as your samples show.
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? *DELETED* [Re: ChRnZN]
#24512581 - 07/27/17 07:11 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: stevo]
#24512656 - 07/27/17 07:37 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's not bluing, it's a blackening.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Doc9151]
#24512739 - 07/27/17 08:19 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: That's not bluing, it's a blackening.
2 out of 2 docs agree, that's blackening. It's some kind of weird Hygrocybe I think.
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: doctorghosty]
#24514151 - 07/28/17 02:40 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Rats! The spore print was brown as well. I found another larger one at the same spot. It also bruises the same way, starting very blue and getting darker with time. Gotta keep on hunting!
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#24514169 - 07/28/17 02:47 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Brown rules out Hygrocybe, can you post a picture of the spore print? Maybe Inocybe...
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rhizoRider
Mycorrhizally expanding



Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 1,915
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: doctorghosty]
#24514218 - 07/28/17 03:17 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Might be 'rusty' inocybe print. Further study plus info needed.
neat find.
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donjonson420
Baron



Registered: 09/14/15
Posts: 1,592
Loc: Maryland, USA
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: rhizoRider]
#24514244 - 07/28/17 03:30 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The spore print and appressed fibrils support Inocybe, could you post more pics of this bruising and spore print(are you sure its brown and not "pink"? And are the gills free or attached? Only bluing Inocybe I know of is Inocybe bohemica and is only known from California.
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: donjonson420]
#24514533 - 07/28/17 05:43 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here is the spore print from the first one:

The gills are not attached. Examples of bruising on the second one:



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Cham9085
I brake for psilocybes.


Registered: 02/03/17
Posts: 3,825
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#24514535 - 07/28/17 05:44 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Definitely blue
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Cham9085]
#24514556 - 07/28/17 05:58 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's definitely an interesting find, I'm curious to what it is. How big is it? Can you put something in the pic like a ruler, a coin or something for size comparison?
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Doc9151]
#24514577 - 07/28/17 06:06 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The stipe is about 8 cm and the diameter of the flattened pileus is 5.5 cm.
-------------------- Finds:
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donjonson420
Baron



Registered: 09/14/15
Posts: 1,592
Loc: Maryland, USA
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#24514582 - 07/28/17 06:08 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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If the gills are truly free consider Pluteus cyanopus.
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SWFL
Gettin' Better All The Time


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 1,802
Loc: USA
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: donjonson420]
#24514595 - 07/28/17 06:17 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
donjonson420 said: If the gills are truly free consider Pluteus cyanopus.
Agree, Pluteus cyanopus.
-------------------- Listening to anything I say could be detrimental to your health-
Edited by SWFL (07/28/17 06:19 PM)
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Cham9085
I brake for psilocybes.


Registered: 02/03/17
Posts: 3,825
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: SWFL]
#24514607 - 07/28/17 06:23 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is a super cool find
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Cham9085
I brake for psilocybes.


Registered: 02/03/17
Posts: 3,825
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Cham9085]
#24514610 - 07/28/17 06:24 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Same as the original pictures?
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: SWFL]
#24514615 - 07/28/17 06:27 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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That fits what I've been able to find.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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breeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,120
Loc: mass
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Cham9085]
#24514621 - 07/28/17 06:29 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Very cool! But shouldn't the print be pinker?
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: breeg89]
#24514695 - 07/28/17 07:02 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pluteus Cyanopus seems to be a good match except for the spore print color. I'll post a picture if I get a better print from the larger cap.
MO has an observation from nearby that appears very similar apart from the cap shape.
MO - Pluteus Cyanopus - shroomydan
Thanks for all the help, this might be my first active find! Hopefully more will pop up.
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SWFL
Gettin' Better All The Time


Registered: 07/04/10
Posts: 1,802
Loc: USA
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: breeg89]
#24514739 - 07/28/17 07:19 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
breeg89 said: Very cool! But shouldn't the print be pinker?
If you look where the spores are smeared thin in the one pic I think you could easily call that pinkish.
-------------------- Listening to anything I say could be detrimental to your health-
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: SWFL]
#24515769 - 07/29/17 09:30 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SWFL said: If you look where the spores are smeared thin in the one pic I think you could easily call that pinkish.
That might just be a weird reflection on the foil. Here's another print:

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breeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,120
Loc: mass
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: SWFL]
#24516175 - 07/29/17 01:06 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SWFL said:
Quote:
breeg89 said: Very cool! But shouldn't the print be pinker?
If you look where the spores are smeared thin in the one pic I think you could easily call that pinkish.
I see what you're saying.
EDIT: Now that I think about, I've had Pluteus print kind of salmon-orange I think.
Edited by breeg89 (07/29/17 01:10 PM)
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doctorghosty
is the name of me



Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 11,420
Loc: North GA, God's fav
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: breeg89]
#24516176 - 07/29/17 01:08 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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DNA analysis ftw
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: doctorghosty]
#24516788 - 07/29/17 06:49 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
doctorghosty said: DNA analysis ftw
Is that something I could have done?
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#24516806 - 07/29/17 06:55 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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There's a place named alvalab look'em up
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: doctorghosty]
#24516929 - 07/29/17 08:12 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
doctorghosty said: DNA analysis ftw
Op might get help from Alan rockefeller.
-------------------- ©️
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rhizoRider
Mycorrhizally expanding



Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 1,915
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Lucis]
#24518593 - 07/30/17 04:39 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Whoa worth popcorn
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: rhizoRider]
#24518613 - 07/30/17 04:45 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think alans gone for the next five months
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (07/30/17 04:46 PM)
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rhizoRider
Mycorrhizally expanding



Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 1,915
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: rhizoRider]
#24518633 - 07/30/17 04:52 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The caps still screams inocybe.
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5alamander
Wanderer

Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: rhizoRider]
#24520698 - 07/31/17 03:17 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The spore print color looks pretty close to this Pluteus Americanus print.
Pluteus Americanus:

Compared to:

I've checked the location a third time, but nothing jumped out at me. I'll look into alvalab and try to remember to hit up Alan when he's back. Still keeping my eyes open for Caerulipes and Gyms.
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5alamander
Wanderer


Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#27391544 - 07/17/21 04:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Reviving this old thread with the possibility that this is Inocybe insignis.
-------------------- Finds:
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bloodycarcass
Stranger Danger



Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 2,724
Loc: the sticks in GA
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander] 1
#27391602 - 07/17/21 05:30 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
5alamander said: Reviving this old thread with the possibility that this is Inocybe insignis.
Alan just posted on Instagram about Inocybe insignis. And it looks like it too me
-------------------- Back at it like a crack addict, with asthmatic lung disease
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HAKR ELITE
"Sure. Mushrooms Friends."

Registered: 08/18/18
Posts: 1,143
Loc: Under The Gills...
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: bloodycarcass]
#27391607 - 07/17/21 05:35 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Id stamp it as Inocybe insignis after taking a good look through the photos...Which only means Ill be picking every Inocybe I see from now on I wonder just how widespread these actually are 🤣😂
Anywho this was an amazing find 💯
--------------------
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bloodycarcass
Stranger Danger



Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 2,724
Loc: the sticks in GA
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: HAKR ELITE] 1
#27391636 - 07/17/21 06:23 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HAKR ELITE said: Id stamp it as Inocybe insignis after taking a good look through the photos...Which only means Ill be picking every Inocybe I see from now on I wonder just how widespread these actually are 🤣😂
Anywho this was an amazing find 💯
If I find some Im sending him some to keep testing. Same for all of y'all. Alan want to test these if you find some hit him up send him some samples to keep testing.
-------------------- Back at it like a crack addict, with asthmatic lung disease
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,271
Last seen: 6 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander] 1
#27391760 - 07/17/21 07:57 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
5alamander said: Reviving this old thread with the possibility that this is Inocybe insignis.
Inocybe insignis is correct, nice find! If you still have the collection I'd like to study it, if not please recollect.
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HAKR ELITE
"Sure. Mushrooms Friends."

Registered: 08/18/18
Posts: 1,143
Loc: Under The Gills...
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27391769 - 07/17/21 08:06 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for chiming in Alan...You da man and thanks for the studies in them this is big right here Ill be picking any I see now 😂🤣 If so happen I can locate then on this side Ill be sure to send em you way
--------------------
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5alamander
Wanderer


Registered: 07/27/17
Posts: 42
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: HAKR ELITE]
#27392628 - 07/18/21 03:49 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dug through my old pictures and found a picture of the spores. I'll be sending the dried specimens off to Alan shortly.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,271
Last seen: 6 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander]
#27392731 - 07/18/21 05:32 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whoa cool, nice nodules. It helps to press down firmly on the coverslip to separate the spores a bit so they aren't stuck in a pile. I press with my tshirt so I don't leave a fingerprint, and press almost hard enough to break the spores but not quite.
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CHUCK.HNTR
feral urbanite



Registered: 09/30/19
Posts: 2,254
Loc: SF, CA, USA
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27392918 - 07/18/21 07:41 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- "What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
   
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mycosavant
ॐ


Registered: 02/18/20
Posts: 39
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: 5alamander] 1
#27395271 - 07/20/21 02:57 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow. That 3-year resurrection WIN on the Inocybe insignis, though.
Definitely mentally uploading this search image since near that geographical region. Great find, Excellent resurrection.
-------------------- ☮ॐ -नाद
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,271
Last seen: 6 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: mycosavant]
#27500331 - 10/11/21 03:03 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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I got a DNA sequence for this one, it matches other Inocybe insignis sequences.
TGACaGGCTGTTTTTGCTGGCCCCCCCTAGGGCATGTGCACGCTTGTCATTTTTTTGTTTCTCCAACCATGTGCACACATTGTAGACTCCCTGGTTTAGAATTGTACAGATTTGATTGAGGACTGCGCTATGCCGCTTTCCTTGCAAAAAAGGGGTCTATGCTTTTCACTACCTTTATTTTGTTTTTTGAAATGGCAATAATAAAATTTATACAACTTTCAGCAACGGATCTCTTGGCTCTCGCATCGATGAAGAACGCAGCGAAATGCGATAAGTAATGTGAATTGCAGAATTCAGTGAATCATCGAATCTTTGAACGCATCTTGCGCTCCTTGGTATTCCGAGGAGCATGCCTGTTTGAGTGTCATTAAAGCTTCTCAAAGCCCCATGTTATATATGTATATGATTGTGGCTTTGGATGATGGGGGTTTTTGCAGGCTTTAGAAAAAGGTCGGCTCTCCTGAAATGTATTAGTGGTATCCAAGGGGGGGACTACTTTTGGGCATGATAAAATTTGTCTATGTCTCTAAGTTCCAATATGAGTGCCACTTAAAAAATCACTTTTGTTGACTTGACCTCAAATCAGGTAGGACTACCCGCTGAACTTAAGCATA
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Unknownfungi
Amateur mycologist



Registered: 09/28/21
Posts: 584
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27500708 - 10/11/21 11:44 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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PTreeDish


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 353
Last seen: 3 months, 14 days
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27501237 - 10/11/21 07:34 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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I blasted that sequence and it came back 91.61% Inocybe suecica for type sequences and the same for the top 4 non-type matches. Wonder why we're getting such different results?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,271
Last seen: 6 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: PTreeDish]
#27501528 - 10/12/21 02:09 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PTreeDish said: I blasted that sequence and it came back 91.61% Inocybe suecica for type sequences and the same for the top 4 non-type matches. Wonder why we're getting such different results?
I am seeing an 82% match for Inocybe suecica, and nothing in Genbank matches more than 89%, and there's only 56% query coverage on that one. I am using the default NCBI blast settings. Are you using default NCBI BLAST settings?
It's not surprising that you didn't get Inocybe insignis in your matches because there are no Inocybe insignis ITS sequences in Genbank yet. I uploaded this one the other day so it'll be there in about a week.
Here is an Inocybe insignis sequence you can compare against: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/27732456
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PTreeDish


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 353
Last seen: 3 months, 14 days
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27501805 - 10/12/21 10:01 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am indeed using the default blast settings. Here's a brief video showing how I blasted your sequence and the results I'm receiving. Perhaps you can spot where we're doing things differently.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,271
Last seen: 6 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: PTreeDish]
#27503341 - 10/13/21 04:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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The answer is in the query coverage. Query coverage tells us how much of the sequence is overlapping and is being compared. In your case, it's 51% query coverage, so it's only comparing half of the sequence, and of that 51%, you are seeing a 91% match.
On my BLAST my query coverage is 78%, and since these sequences don't match well at all, comparing more of the sequence leads to a lower ident percentage.
I don't know why my BLAST search is comparing more of the sequence than yours - to really compare them well you should download the sequences and load them into an alignment so you can compare the whole thing. Are you using the default BLAST parameters?
I notice that when I ask for 1000 BLAST matches the query coverage is 77%, so it compares different amounts of the sequence based on the other results.
Sometimes I ask for 1000 or more results and sort by ident - this includes sequences that are normally omitted due to low query coverage, for example short sequences that match well but are normally not in the top 100 because it scores query coverage heavily, (these are good useful matches) or longer sequences where only a short more conserved part of the sequence matches. (these are typically unhelpful matches)
When looking at BLAST results, pay close attention to the query coverage - a good match with low query coverage is not usually actually a good match when you compare the whole sequence - unless the query coverage is low because the sequence in Genbank is short.
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PTreeDish


Registered: 04/22/18
Posts: 353
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27503630 - 10/13/21 08:37 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well hmm. I'm familiar with what Query coverage is. It makes complete sense that one would want to match the longest query sequences with the longest sequences of record for specificity.
I'm using default search params but still unable to replicate your results. Not sure what you mean by your query coverage is 78%. When I sort by qc, I see 1 result with 100% covered, a dozen or so 99% and so forth. I'm guessing there is some other search config or sorting you have that I'm missing.
Is this sequence tied to a mushroomobserver record by chance? They provide a link to a saved search for the sequence. If that matches your results, I could use it to compare with my manual search and possibly figure out the difference.
Edited by PTreeDish (10/15/21 04:20 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: PTreeDish]
#27507910 - 10/17/21 12:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am using the default BLAST settings, so I am not sure why you are getting different results.
There is a sequence in this MO record: https://mushroomobserver.org/472389
However it doesn't save BLAST results, it's a new BLAST each time you click the link.
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PTreeDish


Registered: 04/22/18
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27508085 - 10/17/21 03:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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We have the same results as I'm seeing the 78% Inocybe suecica you are. We just aren't seeing the same when it comes to Inocybe insignis.
You said "it matches other Inocybe insignis sequences." I'm trying to find how? There are only two accessions for I. insignis in GenBank (KM245989.1, KP170913.1) and when I blasted your sequence against these two, there were no matches.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: PTreeDish]
#27508515 - 10/17/21 09:30 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PTreeDish said: We have the same results as I'm seeing the 78% Inocybe suecica you are. We just aren't seeing the same when it comes to Inocybe insignis.
You said "it matches other Inocybe insignis sequences." I'm trying to find how? There are only two accessions for I. insignis in GenBank (KM245989.1, KP170913.1) and when I blasted your sequence against these two, there were no matches.
That is because the other Inocybe insignis sequences in Genbank are different genes. When they wrote the paper on it they weren't able to get ITS to amplify. Try the sequence from https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/27732456.
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undersativaskies
blue ridgerepresent



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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27508537 - 10/17/21 09:54 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nerds
-------------------- The wolves howl, the sheep dwell, and the fool casts his whom.
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PTreeDish


Registered: 04/22/18
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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27508994 - 10/18/21 11:56 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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That would indeed explain the difference in results! I see 93% query coverage and 99.49% match blasting those two sequences together. Much better.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: ID in the Ohio Valley. Possible P. Caerulipes? [Re: PTreeDish]
#27511882 - 10/20/21 10:50 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
PTreeDish said: That would indeed explain the difference in results! I see 93% query coverage and 99.49% match blasting those two sequences together. Much better. 
And if you look at the alignment, you'll see that they really match 100%.

R is the ambiguity code for A or G, so the first mismatch isn't a real difference.
With the second mismatch it's a difference in a long repeat of G's, and Sanger has trouble reading the exact number of bases in a long string of repeats, so that's not a real difference.
In the last one, I have two T's where they have 1 T - and since it's at the end of the sequence, that's almost certainly the same thing two. I looked at my chromatogram and saw two clear T's there, so Steve's basecaller misread the double T, which is common at the end of a Sanger read.
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