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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
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Why do you own firearms?
    #2448012 - 03/18/04 06:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I am wondering, for those of you that do own guns or that plan on owning them in the future, what your motivation for doing so is. Please, if you do not fall into this category, do not answer. Debate to follow :smile:
What was the motivating factor that lead you to decide you wanted to own a firearm?
You may choose only one
Sport and self-defense (You purchased the gun to enjoy shooting it, to hunt, and for protection)
You honestly believe that the chances of you being attacked are so high that to not carry a gun would be foolish


Votes accepted from (03/18/04 02:00 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448061 - 03/18/04 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Mostly I just enjoy the feel of a well made machine and guns are some of the most tactilely satisfying artifacts we have ever produced. The feel and sound of a well oiled pump is sublime


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2448074 - 03/18/04 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Mostly I just enjoy the feel of a well made machine and guns are some of the most tactilely satisfying artifacts we have ever produced.  The feel and sound of a well oiled pump is sublime




I was helping out at Church Bingo last night with my father and a policeman that always is there had his new babyGlock (the 9mm, shitty decision in my opinon).  We talked for a while and ended up going shooting today. Long story short, hes a member of the SRT (SWAT team, basically) and he brought his MP5 with the built in sound suppressor.  Shooting HK firearms is better than sex! :smile:


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448121 - 03/18/04 06:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't own a gun but voted for the last option because I wanted to see the results, which you chose to only make available to people who have voted.  :rolleyes:


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448137 - 03/18/04 06:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I own guns because I like target shooting, and if anyone ever breaks into my house and puts me or anyone in my family in immediate danger I can blow their brains out all over the place.


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OfflineMetaShroom
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2448155 - 03/18/04 06:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blacksabbathrulz said:
I own guns because I like target shooting, and if anyone ever breaks into my house and puts me or anyone in my family in immediate danger I can blow their brains out all over the place.




You sound like you are looking forward to such an event with relish.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2448166 - 03/18/04 06:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MetaShroom said:
I don't own a gun but voted for the last option because I wanted to see the results, which you chose to only make available to people who have voted.  :rolleyes:




Oh, heh, yea, I guess that would make more sense to do.  I'll make another post later on, the new and improved version 2.0 post.  Thanks for voting to spite me, really shows your ego-identification :-)


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Anonymous

Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448293 - 03/18/04 07:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

an option for "both" would have been nice.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448333 - 03/18/04 07:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

where's the 'for killing niggers' option?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: afoaf]
    #2448343 - 03/18/04 07:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

where's the 'for killing niggers' option?

guns don't kill people. black people do.

seriously though... most of the violence in this country is black on black. it's pretty sad.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2448533 - 03/18/04 08:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MetaShroom said:
Quote:

blacksabbathrulz said:
I own guns because I like target shooting, and if anyone ever breaks into my house and puts me or anyone in my family in immediate danger I can blow their brains out all over the place.




You sound like you are looking forward to such an event with relish.



Nah, I dont want to ever be in the situation, however if it arose I would not think twice about using deadly force if anyone had the gall to put any of my family members in danger. I hate violence, but it is a neccessity in many instances, that would be one of them.


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448653 - 03/18/04 08:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i own over 20 shotguns, muzzle loaders, handguns, and rifles because they have been passed down in my family.


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No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Anonymous

Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448660 - 03/18/04 09:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i enjoy firearms because:

1. i am paranoid about being attacked, what with all those negros running about these days...

2. i am insecure, and having a gun helps me feel like more of a man.

3. i enjoy death and destruction.

:wink:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: ]
    #2448670 - 03/18/04 09:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

4. I'm a wigger looking for "street cred."


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinemescalinemark
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448753 - 03/18/04 09:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i live in a very wealthy city in texas actually the weakthiest, and i go to school with a lot of conservitive rich kids, most of the hunt family that arent in private school go here, some bush family members, tricky dick chainey used to live here, and i know alot of these people, my step dad is a for sucessful lawyer and very conservitive, we have lots of guns in our house(their is an elephant gun above my dinner table). some people own them for protection and i will not deny that, but conservitives arent to good with logic so im pretty sure thats not the reason most consercitives have them. I think it has more to do with them being subconciousley agresive and having a seriously complex inferiority complex its root in the king of all hypocracies, illogic, and other plauges to the development of the human race RELIGEON. I wont even participate in this forum because the only thing i dont like more than a conservitive is a drugged conservitive. normally i dont like to use the words like conservitive because they are marginalizing i dont feel that conservitives have any opinions of their own and that they are mearly bricks that give the nazi movement weight and sheep. I end this rant with a quote by John stuart mills "It isn't that most conservitives are stupid people, its just that most stupid people are conservitives."g


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2448777 - 03/18/04 09:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I own shotguns for small game and bird hunting.

I own my Intra-Tec Tec 9 for plinking and for large capacity of the magazine. I have a 32 round and a 50 round magazine for it.

I own my Ruger 10/22 w/ volquartsen muzzle weighted barrel and 3-9 x 40mm simmons scope for target shooting and squirrel hunting.

I own my Ruger 10/22 w/ bullpup stock, 50 rd drum magazine, and scope for hunting and as a neat little very functional oddity.

I own my Marlin 30-30 for deer hunting.

I own my SKS for deer hunting and plinking. I'm looking forward to replacing the original wood stock with a synthetic camouflage stock and replace the factory 10 rd magazine with a flush mount 5 round.

I own Thompson Center Contender w/ 14" 30-30 bull barrel for deer and other large game hunting.

I own my double barrel .410/.45 derringer style pistol just because it's damn fun. It'd also turn an intruder into hamburger if needed.

I also have a little .22 caliber pistol that has 10 barrels that the shooter must revolve by hand after each shot. It is not accurate at any distance and is a real pain to extract the empty cartridges from, but it looks cool.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2448819 - 03/18/04 09:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Do you believe that only conservatives own guns?

I own plenty and I don't consider myself a conservative.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Anonymous

Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2448875 - 03/18/04 09:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I end this rant with a quote by John stuart mills "It isn't that most conservitives are stupid people, its just that most stupid people are conservitives."g

"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."

-john stuart mill, 1866

in his time, john stuart mill was considered a liberal. i myself am a huge fan of john stuart mill and his peice, "on liberty" is one of my favorite peices of political writing. i am certainly no liberal.

guys like john stuart mill, john locke, thomas paine, and benedictus spinoza were considered liberals in their day, but their work forms most of the philosophical background for modern day libertarianism, a political school that is labelled as "conservative" by today's definitions.


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Offlinemescalinemark
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: ]
    #2448948 - 03/18/04 09:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

no of course not, as I said, protection of family is a great reason and the reason most often given, but if you live in a very wealthy comunity you dont need enough weapons to suply a swat team. criminals also have them. It takes all kind, but it is kindof a popular thing with conservitives, its part of their sick joke, of all the amendments to suport of advocate they choose the right to bear arms?
I like libertarianism, its not my favorite pollitical party or phillosophy, but i do like it and kind of consider it the party for conservitives who actually use their brains


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2449043 - 03/18/04 10:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mescalinemark said:
i live in a very wealthy city in texas actually the weakthiest, and i go to school with a lot of conservitive rich kids, most of the hunt family that arent in private school go here, some bush family members, tricky dick chainey used to live here, and i know alot of these people, my step dad is a for sucessful lawyer and very conservitive, we have lots of guns in our house(their is an elephant gun above my dinner table). some people own them for protection and i will not deny that, but conservitives arent to good with logic so im pretty sure thats not the reason most consercitives have them. I think it has more to do with them being subconciousley agresive and having a seriously complex inferiority complex its root in the king of all hypocracies, illogic, and other plauges to the development of the human race RELIGEON. I wont even participate in this forum because the only thing i dont like more than a conservitive is a drugged conservitive. normally i dont like to use the words like conservitive because they are marginalizing i dont feel that conservitives have any opinions of their own and that they are mearly bricks that give the nazi movement weight and sheep. I end this rant with a quote by John stuart mills "It isn't that most conservitives are stupid people, its just that most stupid people are conservitives."g




That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read on these boards.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2449325 - 03/18/04 11:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Then you haven't been here long.... :smirk:

Guns are Fun!!!!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: afoaf]
    #2449472 - 03/18/04 11:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Guns are fun. I love shooting targets, and other crap like broken tv's


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2451666 - 03/19/04 03:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Because it is my right to do so. I don't think I need any more reason or justification.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2451677 - 03/19/04 03:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I plan on getting my gun licence and buying a few shotguns and rifles.

Why?

I'm fairly certain we're living in the decline of western society, and I'd like to have some personal protection for when things get really bad. Until that day I'll keep them locked in a safe, unloaded.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451814 - 03/19/04 04:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, get a license so that when they decide to ban firearms they will know who house to go to.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2451838 - 03/19/04 04:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mntlfngrs said:
Yes, get a license so that when they decide to ban firearms they will know who house to go to.



If you go by that logic, then why not just buy the gun illegally on the black market?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2451853 - 03/19/04 04:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Here in Canada you can't purchase firearms or ammunition without a gun licence.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451903 - 03/19/04 04:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And for the record: I don't think that a gun licence is a bad thing at all. Guns are dangerous. Plain and simple.

Can you drive a car without a licence? No. Why? Because cars are dangerous and a person who does not know how to safely operate a vehicle could injure or kill other people.

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.

So here in Canada, you are required to take a course on gun safety then pass a test to prove that you know how to safely store and operate firearms. Then you can go buy your guns. I don't see anything wrong with that.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451953 - 03/19/04 05:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Here in Canada you can't purchase firearms or ammunition without a gun licence.



:lol:

Does that mean you can't purchase "illegal" drugs without a license as well?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2451971 - 03/19/04 05:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
And for the record: I don't think that a gun licence is a bad thing at all.



Nope. Not as long (as was pointed out earlier) you don't mind giving a road map to your house when the government comes looking for you.


Quote:

Guns are dangerous. Plain and simple.



No, people are dangerous. Guns are merely inanimate objects.


Quote:

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.



Nah. Compare the rate of deaths per car owned against the rate of deaths per gun owned and I suspect you'll see a far different picture.

Quote:

So here in Canada, you are required to take a course on gun safety then pass a test to prove that you know how to safely store and operate firearms. Then you can go buy your guns. I don't see anything wrong with that.



See above.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/19/04 05:21 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2451999 - 03/19/04 05:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

deaths per car owned and deaths per gun owned
is a terrible comparison.

how many people shoot their guns for at least
2 hours a day 7 days a week among hundreds
of other people doing the same thing?

and in the states, you have to have a license to
buy a gun, don't you? I mean, I had to take that
stupid test to get my safety license....is that the
license we're talking about here?


--------------------
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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452003 - 03/19/04 05:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

trendal said:
And for the record: I don't think that a gun licence is a bad thing at all.



Nope. Not as long (as was pointed out earlier) you don't mind giving a road map to your house when the government comes looking for you.



The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down. How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?

Quote:

Quote:

Guns are dangerous. Plain and simple.



No, people are dangerous. Guns are merely inanimate objects.



A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).

Quote:

Quote:

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.



Nah. Compare the rate of deaths per car owned against the rate of deaths per gun owned and I suspect you'll see a far different picture.



Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands. I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: afoaf]
    #2452020 - 03/19/04 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
deaths per car owned and deaths per gun owned
is a terrible comparison.



Not in response to this:
Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.


Quote:

how many people shoot their guns for at least
2 hours a day 7 days a week among hundreds
of other people doing the same thing?



Not the same thing. Then you'd be comparing deaths per mile driven vs. deaths per round fired. In that case the numbers would probably be even more in favor of guns being safer.

Quote:

and in the states, you have to have a license to
buy a gun, don't you?



Not all of them Where I live you have to have a license to carry concealed. Not to purchase, not to carry openly. An instant background check is done but that's not the same thing as a license.


Quote:

I mean, I had to take that
stupid test to get my safety license....is that the
license we're talking about here?



As I said, depends on the state.

Even in states where one is required it often doesn't apply to private sales or transfers between family members.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: automan]
    #2452035 - 03/19/04 05:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

automan said:
i own over 20 shotguns, muzzle loaders, handguns, and rifles because they have been passed down in my family.




Oh, well, the only reason I said "no inheritance" is because some people might dislike firearms, but grandpappy left them one, and it's rotting in the closet. Bah, this poll is all fucked up. BTw, where ya been in the cult evador channel on irc recently, we miss ya.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2452046 - 03/19/04 05:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
I own my Ruger 10/22 w/ volquartsen muzzle weighted barrel and 3-9 x 40mm simmons scope for target shooting and squirrel hunting.

I own my Ruger 10/22 w/ bullpup stock, 50 rd drum magazine, and scope for hunting and as a neat little very functional oddity.




I heart my 10/22.  They are great for anything, and ammo is cheap.
Quote:


I own my SKS for deer hunting and plinking. I'm looking forward to replacing the original wood stock with a synthetic camouflage stock and replace the factory 10 rd magazine with a flush mount 5 round.




Choate (might be spelled wrong) makes a stock that looks like the dragnov stock, but it's totally Kevlar.  It's bad-ass :smile:


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452051 - 03/19/04 05:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down.



Holy shit man, the gov tracks you down because of the paper trail, which is exactly what a license to purchase a gun is. The trail head. If there is no license to purchase, there is no trail head when they want to confiscate your guns.Thanks for making my point.

Quote:

How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?



See above.

Quote:

A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).



So is a person with a knife or baseball bat. Or even a car.

Quote:

Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands.



No shit?


Quote:

I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



Me neither. It's just the govs involvement I have a problem with. What if they decide that the hands of college students are the wrong hands? Or women? Or newspaper editors who print articles they don't like?

I'd like to see some people that are careless not get guns. How would a course weed them out when most people are capable of behaving well for at least limited periods of time? And how do you deal with the black market? Pass more laws than the 14,000 already on the books?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/19/04 05:46 PM)


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452064 - 03/19/04 05:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down. How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?




I think that he meant that the "invaders" would know where to find gun owners. Good job missing the point, I'm proud of you!
Quote:


A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).




Yes, but if person A with the gun is planning on using it on innocent people, and person B happens to be in the nearby vicinity with his gun, he can stop person A from using theirs.
Quote:


Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands. I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



you used the word "nonetheless", as if a car isn't dangerous in teh wrong hands. If I am intelligent and well versed in firearm shooting and a convicted felon for armed robbery, i'd still be someone who knows how to safely use a firearm, so you'd think I should own guns right? OH, now it's the time where you re-say this, and blame it on me for not reading your mind. Wow, this seems familiar, glitch in the MAtrix I guess.


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452104 - 03/19/04 06:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway. Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down.



Holy shit man, the gov tracks you down because of the paper trail, which is exactly what a license to purchase a gun is. The trail head. If there is no license to purchase, there is no trail head when they want to confiscate your guns.Thanks for making my point.



I think the issue here is the right to keep and bear arms, not the right to not have the government know about it. When they come to confiscate your guns(and by that I don't mean preventing you from future purchases), let me know. Also, requiring a license to purchase a gun doesn't mean tracking every gun purchase you make, just as requiring ID to buy alcohol doesn't mean tracking every one of those purchases.

Quote:

Quote:

A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).



So is a person with a knife or baseball bat. Or even a car.



And to drive a car, you need a license. Also, guns are more dangerous as weapons than baseball bats.

Quote:

Quote:

I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



Me neither. It's just the govs involvement I have a problem with. What if they decide that the hands of college students are the wrong hands? Or women? Or newspaper editors who print articles they don't like?



That's why you have a standardized safety test, so that they don't discriminate by occupation, gender, race, etc.

Quote:

I'd like to see some people that are careless not get guns. How would a course weed them out when most people are capable of behaving well for at least limited periods of time? And how do you deal with the black market? Pass more laws than the 14,000 already on the books?



If someone doesn't know basic gun safety they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Plain and simple. As for the black market, if idiots want to purchase a gun illegally and end up shooting their children by accident, then they get charged with both manslaughter and owning a gun without a license.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452125 - 03/19/04 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The government can find you anyway.  Drivers licenses, social security numbers, bank accounts--all that stuff can be used to trace you down.  How do you think the IRS knows where to send the tax audit/refund?




I think that he meant that the "invaders" would know where to find gun owners.  Good job missing the point, I'm proud of you!



What "invaders" are you talking about?  Black people, I presume? :smirk:

Quote:

Quote:


A person with a gun is more dangerous than an unarmed person(unless that person's a ninja or something like that).




Yes, but if person A with the gun is planning on using it on innocent people, and person B happens to be in the nearby vicinity with his gun, he can stop person A from using theirs.



Which is why I don't support banning guns.  I just support requiring the people who buy them to demonstrate that they know how to use them properly.

Quote:

Quote:


Maybe so, but nonetheless, a gun is dangerous in the wrong hands.  I have no problem keeping guns out of the hands of idiots who don't know how to safely operate them.



you used the word "nonetheless", as if a car isn't dangerous in teh wrong hands.  If I am intelligent and well versed in firearm shooting and a convicted felon for armed robbery, i'd still be someone who knows how to safely use a firearm, so you'd think I should own guns right? OH, now it's the time where you re-say this, and blame it on me for not reading your mind. Wow, this seems familiar, glitch in the MAtrix I guess.



Of course a car is dangerous in the wrong hands.  That's why they require you to get a license to drive one, just as they should require a license to have a firearm.  And just because I want people to know gun safety to purchase a gun doesn't mean I support violent felons owning firearms.  Take a course in logic sometime, okay? :smile:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452232 - 03/19/04 06:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I think the issue here is the right to keep and bear arms, not the right to not have the government know about it.
Quote:


As we were talking about licenses, it is the point that a paper trail of your purchase now exists.



Quote:

When they come to confiscate your guns(and by that I don't mean preventing you from future purchases), let me know.



I won't need to.


Quote:

Also, requiring a license to purchase a gun doesn't mean tracking every gun purchase you make, just as requiring ID to buy alcohol doesn't mean tracking every one of those purchases.



It's apparent you've never bought a gun. Read up on Form 4473.


Quote:


And to drive a car, you need a license. Also, guns are more dangerous as weapons than baseball bats.



Weak. You don't need a license to purchase a car.

Quote:


That's why you have a standardized safety test, so that they don't discriminate by occupation, gender, race, etc.



Weaker. Perhaps then you'd care to explain why in areas of the country police are allowed to decide who gets permits? And perhaps you'd then tell us why celebs and friends of those who issue the licences get them but others do not?

Perhaps a little research on the terms "may issue" and "must issue" will clear things up for you.

Quote:

If someone doesn't know basic gun safety they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Plain and simple. As for the black market, if idiots want to purchase a gun illegally and end up shooting their children by accident, then they get charged with both manslaughter and owning a gun without a license.



Again with the "allowed to own a gun". When the gov can decide who is allowed and who isn't, there is no telling when they will stop.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452371 - 03/19/04 07:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I think the issue here is the right to keep and bear arms, not the right to not have the government know about it.



As we were talking about licenses, it is the point that a paper trail of your purchase now exists.



No, there is now a paper trail to the fact that you are legally allowed to own a gun, not to any specific gun purchases you've made.

Quote:

Quote:

When they come to confiscate your guns(and by that I don't mean preventing you from future purchases), let me know.



I won't need to.



I doubt you'd need to even if you were required to get a license.

Quote:

Quote:

Also, requiring a license to purchase a gun doesn't mean tracking every gun purchase you make, just as requiring ID to buy alcohol doesn't mean tracking every one of those purchases.



It's apparent you've never bought a gun. Read up on Form 4473.



So? I'm not talking about the laws as they exist, I'm talking about the general idea of requiring a license. In fact, it seems to me that this form already leaves a paper trail to your purchase, so I don't see what further harm it could do if you had to get a license to buy a gun.

Quote:

Quote:


And to drive a car, you need a license. Also, guns are more dangerous as weapons than baseball bats.



Weak. You don't need a license to purchase a car.



It's quite easy to tell if someone is driving a car, unless they're off-roading. Therefore, it's easy for a police officer to see if someone doesn't know what they're doing, and he can pull them over and ask to see their driver's license. If someone has a gun, they could keep it in their house, and no one outside would know about it--until they end up doing something stupid with it, in which case either they or one of their family members gets killed or injured. But I'll offer a compromise: Don't require a license to buy a gun, but require one to buy bullets. After all, there's no danger in having an unloaded gun(unless someone pisto-whips you, but that's not likely).

Quote:

Quote:


That's why you have a standardized safety test, so that they don't discriminate by occupation, gender, race, etc.



Weaker. Perhaps then you'd care to explain why in areas of the country police are allowed to decide who gets permits? And perhaps you'd then tell us why celebs and friends of those who issue the licences get them but others do not?



Again, I'm not talking about laws as they are, but rather as they should be. A standardized safety test and criminal background check should be sufficient for getting a license.

Quote:

Quote:

If someone doesn't know basic gun safety they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Plain and simple. As for the black market, if idiots want to purchase a gun illegally and end up shooting their children by accident, then they get charged with both manslaughter and owning a gun without a license.



Again with the "allowed to own a gun". When the gov can decide who is allowed and who isn't, there is no telling when they will stop.



Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me. In this nation, we vote. If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452403 - 03/19/04 07:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Personally, I don't own a gun, mostly because they're so expensive. If I had the money, however, I'd get a good shotgun just for home protection. Of course, I'd take a few gun safety and maintainance courses afterwards.


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452438 - 03/19/04 07:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

  Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me. In this nation, we vote. If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.



I'll merely laugh at this bit and let the rest slide.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452549 - 03/19/04 08:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have no fears of my government coming to my house to take away my guns. They haven't done this to anyone yet, and don't look like they ever should.

If society/government degrades to the point where the government starts confiscating weapons from civilians, do you really think they will need to look for a gun licence to find your guns?

Also, my government does not confiscate gun purchase records from gun dealers except when required for specific cases under investigation (ie: when a gun death has occured). Your BATF has a habit of running around taking purchase lists from gun dealers without having any good reason to do so.

Unless you buy your weapons from the black market, there is a record of you buying that gun. :lol:


--------------------
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But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2452669 - 03/19/04 09:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:

Can you drive a car without a licence? No. Why? Because cars are dangerous and a person who does not know how to safely operate a vehicle could injure or kill other people.

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.





Owning and driving a car is not a right guarenteed by the constitution, it is a privilage and therfore licenseable. Keep and bear arms is a right and therfore no subject to liscensing. May times in history would be dictators confiscated the citizens guns first thing. So clearly it is in the publics intrest to have the citizens armed without any knowledge of the gov. This is the reason that the founding fathers ensured us the right to be armed. No to protect us from foreign invaders but to protect us from our government.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2452676 - 03/19/04 09:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mescalinemark said:
i live in a very wealthy city in texas actually the weakthiest, and i go to school with a lot of conservitive rich kids, most of the hunt family that arent in private school go here, some bush family members, tricky dick chainey used to live here, and i know alot of these people, my step dad is a for sucessful lawyer and very conservitive, we have lots of guns in our house(their is an elephant gun above my dinner table). some people own them for protection and i will not deny that, but conservitives arent to good with logic so im pretty sure thats not the reason most consercitives have them. I think it has more to do with them being subconciousley agresive and having a seriously complex inferiority complex its root in the king of all hypocracies, illogic, and other plauges to the development of the human race RELIGEON. I wont even participate in this forum because the only thing i dont like more than a conservitive is a drugged conservitive. normally i dont like to use the words like conservitive because they are marginalizing i dont feel that conservitives have any opinions of their own and that they are mearly bricks that give the nazi movement weight and sheep. I end this rant with a quote by John stuart mills "It isn't that most conservitives are stupid people, its just that most stupid people are conservitives."g




You go to a school that the Bush "family" (aren't they all in college? maybe you could name this fantasy school) sends their kids to, and this is the best you can type and express yourself? Either the school is failing miserably, or you are.


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452694 - 03/19/04 09:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No, there is now a paper trail to the fact that you are legally allowed to own a gun, not to any specific gun purchases you've made.




How I dearly love it when you type such bullshit, how sweet your ignorance is to my ears.

How many guns have you purchased?

Where do you draw the information that their isn't a paper trail for any specific gun purchases? I really want to hear this, further insults and facts proving your assinine subjective guestimes wrong to follow, stay tuneD!
Quote:


So? I'm not talking about the laws as they exist, I'm talking about the general idea of requiring a license. In fact, it seems to me that this form already leaves a paper trail to your purchase, so I don't see what further harm it could do if you had to get a license to buy a gun.




Uh, this actually contradicts your own statement a little big back. When you purchase a firearm, a copy of the form goes to your state and local police. The state police keep it on record for tracking purposes (i.e. to call in a serial number of a firearm and locate the registered owner) and the local police keep track of it to identify any possible firearm trafficking rackets. When you transfer ownership of a firearm, you have to go to a FFL (or the state police in some states) and have them do the legal transfer so the firearm with serial number 'x' is registered to person 'y'. Instead of saying all of these things, why not just put "I have no idea how guns are used, bought or sold, but that won't stop me from having a bias opinion based on my random guesses as to the procedures" in your signature line, it would make it much easier for those of us that do own guns and know the law. Thanks
Quote:


But I'll offer a compromise: Don't require a license to buy a gun, but require one to buy bullets. After all, there's no danger in having an unloaded gun(unless someone pisto-whips you, but that's not likely).




And what about home reloaders? Oh, hah, wait, I assumed you had some knowledge of firearms and related accessories, something you've shown you don't have. See, people, ok, like the redneck idiots that own guns, they have thingies, ok, called 'reloading machines", that like, reload the bullet thingies with the black stuff that goes bangybangband and the tips that go into people and the thingy that makes the powder stuff go bangybangbang. Is that simple and bias enough for you yet?
Quote:


Again, I'm not talking about laws as they are, but rather as they should be. A standardized safety test and criminal background check should be sufficient for getting a license.




A car dealer can sell you a car without ensuring you are properly aware of the safe operation of it. And, guess what, you showed your ignorance of the gun buying experience and related laws YET AGAIN, to purchase firearms, YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK! Boy, this is the best post you've made yet! hah, geez.
Quote:


Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me. In this nation, we vote. If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.



Ok, you and your hippy, tree-hugging, know-noting gun haters can walk up to my house and vote my guns away from me. But, to paraphrase whacko survivalist Kurt Saxon "Some people store gold, some people store guns, but I know that when the fall comes, those with guns won't have any trouble getting gold". :-) Maybe you could make paper airplanes out of the voting slip thing and throw them at me, right?


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2452707 - 03/19/04 09:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There is no "right" to own firearms in Canada :smirk:


--------------------
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But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452717 - 03/19/04 09:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No, there is now a paper trail to the fact that you are legally allowed to own a gun, not to any specific gun purchases you've made.




How I dearly love it when you type such bullshit, how sweet your ignorance is to my ears.

How many guns have you purchased?

Where do you draw the information that their isn't a paper trail for any specific gun purchases? I really want to hear this, further insults and facts proving your assinine subjective guestimes wrong to follow, stay tuneD!



Read my reply to luvdemshrooms regarding this.  Thanks.

Quote:

Quote:


So?  I'm not talking about the laws as they exist, I'm talking about the general idea of requiring a license.  In fact, it seems to me that this form already leaves a paper trail to your purchase, so I don't see what further harm it could do if you had to get a license to buy a gun.




Uh, this actually contradicts your own statement a little big back.  When you purchase a firearm, a copy of the form goes to your state and local police.  The state police keep it on record for tracking purposes (i.e. to call in a serial number of a firearm and locate the registered owner) and the local police keep track of it to identify any possible firearm trafficking rackets.  When you transfer ownership of a firearm, you have to go to a FFL (or the state police in some states) and have them do the legal transfer so the firearm with serial number 'x' is registered to person 'y'.  Instead of saying all of these things, why not just put "I have no idea how guns are used, bought or sold, but that won't stop me from having a bias opinion based on my random guesses as to the procedures" in your signature line, it would make it much easier for those of us that do own guns and know the law. Thanks



:yawn:  You have a very difficult time with comprehension, I see.  Once again, I am NOT talking about how things are done now.  I'm talking theoretically here.

Quote:

Quote:


But I'll offer a compromise: Don't require a license to buy a gun, but require one to buy bullets.  After all, there's no danger in having an unloaded gun(unless someone pisto-whips you, but that's not likely).




And what about home reloaders? Oh, hah, wait, I assumed you had some knowledge of firearms and related accessories, something you've shown you don't have.  See, people, ok, like the redneck idiots that own guns, they have thingies, ok, called 'reloading machines", that like, reload the bullet thingies with the black stuff that goes bangybangband and the tips that go into people and the thingy that makes the powder stuff go bangybangbang.  Is that simple and bias enough for you yet?



Maybe if you said it in plain english instead of baby talk.

Quote:

Quote:


Again, I'm not talking about laws as they are, but rather as they should be.  A standardized safety test and criminal background check should be sufficient for getting a license.




A car dealer can sell you a car without ensuring you are properly aware of the safe operation of it.  And, guess what, you showed your ignorance of the gun buying experience and related laws YET AGAIN, to purchase firearms, YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK! Boy, this is the best post you've made yet! hah, geez.



I'm well aware of the background check.  I don't know why I bother responding to your posts.  You never comprehend a damn thing I say anyway.

Quote:

Quote:


Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me.  In this nation, we vote.  If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.



Ok, you and your hippy, tree-hugging, know-noting gun haters can walk up to my house and vote my guns away from me.  But, to paraphrase whacko survivalist Kurt Saxon "Some people store gold, some people store guns, but I know that when the fall comes, those with guns won't have any trouble getting gold". :-) Maybe you could make paper airplanes out of the voting slip thing and throw them at me, right?



They can vote your guns away, but they haven't.  If they do, then whether you're required to have a license or not will not make a difference.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2452728 - 03/19/04 09:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I have no fears of my government coming to my house to take away my guns. They haven't done this to anyone yet, and don't look like they ever should.




I see your "tag" is "Canadian bacon". IF you are in Canada, that might be true. If you are in the USA, i'd refer you to Randy Weaver and numerous other gun-owning "white supremacists" that were arrested, or better, had their families killed (fucking FBI) for "gun violations".
Quote:


If society/government degrades to the point where the government starts confiscating weapons from civilians, do you really think they will need to look for a gun licence to find your guns?




No, they'll go to the gun store, the state police, or the local sherrifs office, all three of whom keep copies of firearm transfer papers on hand, and find out what you own and where you live and work. However, if you buy a gun illegally, none of this is true.
Quote:


Also, my government does not confiscate gun purchase records from gun dealers except when required for specific cases under investigation (ie: when a gun death has occured). Your BATF has a habit of running around taking purchase lists from gun dealers without having any good reason to do so.




No, they don't. This is absurd. When you purchase a firearm, a copy of your name, SSN, address, DOB, race, height, weight, dviers license number, work address and serial number, make and model of the firearm you purchased gets put on file at the local sheriff, and the state police. Gun stores have the option of keeping or destroying their records. The BATF would have as much need to go to a gun store to get lists of who owns guns as the DOT would have to go to car dealerships to see who owns what vehicles.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452745 - 03/19/04 09:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I am from Canada and as I said I have no fears of my government coming to arrest me for owning guns or of them trying to take those guns away from me.

Most people seem to think that we here in Canada have some crazy strict gun-control system that makes it so hard to get a gun. We do require a gun licence to own or purchase firearms (it's called a FAC - Firearm Aquisition Certificate).

However Canada has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. Actually I think we're right behind the US :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452751 - 03/19/04 09:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Read my reply to luvdemshrooms regarding this.  Thanks.




I didn't see one that addresses this issue of your lack of ability to properly expres your thoughts, or your lack of knowledge about this particular situation.  How about I read the copy of the paperwork I signed four days ago when I bought a new pistol, then you do the same, and we'll compare results? Oh, hah, you don't own guns and you enjoy talking out of your ass. Thanks.
Quote:


:yawn:  You have a very difficult time with comprehension, I see.  Once again, I am NOT talking about how things are done now.  I'm talking theoretically here.




You might think you are, but you aren't. This theoretical form that you fill out *Gasp* actually exists!  What good would a license do? All you have to do to have a concealed carry permit is pass the EXACT same background check that you do to purchase firearms (pistols, to be precise).  So if you can pass the check to get a pistol, you are, ipso facto, passing the test to have a permit. What difference would you recommend in the requirements to purchase a firearm and the requirements to have a permit allowing you to own guns (since, apparently, the constitution doesn't do that for you)?
Quote:


Maybe if you said it in plain english instead of baby talk.




Plain english, baby talk, you'll respond more with your in-depth knowledge of how the gun purchasing process goes down, and I'll just laugh at it either way.  Why would you require people to have a license to buy bullets when they can be easily fabricated in the home? What part of the home manufacture would you require a license to purchase? Since this involves a knowledge of the parts of a round of ammunition, I'm sure your answer will be quite idiotic and not in step with reality. Am I right aagain? Will Mr "I know 2 people that own guns" impress us all with his wit and wisdom of firearms? Stay tuned!
Quote:


I'm well aware of the background check.  I don't know why I bother responding to your posts.  You never comprehend a damn thing I say anyway.




Good of you to dodge the issue here. Since you "well aware", not just simply aware of the check, why don't you tell us all what the check entails? Thanks.  Maybe you can ask one of your two shady friends that owns guns.
Quote:


They can vote your guns away, but they haven't.  If they do, then whether you're required to have a license or not will not make a difference.



Actually, wether or not they vote to take them away won't make a difference.  Cops, most likley, would never enforce such a law, and if they did, well, heh, they have 9mm pistols, and, while I do to, I also have a myraid of other weapons. "from my cold dead fingers..." and all.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452791 - 03/19/04 09:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Read my reply to luvdemshrooms regarding this.  Thanks.




I didn't see one that addresses this issue of your lack of ability to properly expres your thoughts, or your lack of knowledge about this particular situation.  How about I read the copy of the paperwork I signed four days ago when I bought a new pistol, then you do the same, and we'll compare results? Oh, hah, you don't own guns and you enjoy talking out of your ass. Thanks.



I was referring to the fact that I'm talking in theoretical terms.  Forget the restrictions that exist now when you purchase a gun and replace those with having to get a license to buy one.
Quote:

Quote:


:yawn:  You have a very difficult time with comprehension, I see.  Once again, I am NOT talking about how things are done now.  I'm talking theoretically here.




You might think you are, but you aren't. This theoretical form that you fill out *Gasp* actually exists!  What good would a license do? All you have to do to have a concealed carry permit is pass the EXACT same background check that you do to purchase firearms (pistols, to be precise).  So if you can pass the check to get a pistol, you are, ipso facto, passing the test to have a permit. What difference would you recommend in the requirements to purchase a firearm and the requirements to have a permit allowing you to own guns (since, apparently, the constitution doesn't do that for you)?



See above.  And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.

Quote:

Quote:


Maybe if you said it in plain english instead of baby talk.




Plain english, baby talk, you'll respond more with your in-depth knowledge of how the gun purchasing process goes down, and I'll just laugh at it either way.  Why would you require people to have a license to buy bullets when they can be easily fabricated in the home? What part of the home manufacture would you require a license to purchase? Since this involves a knowledge of the parts of a round of ammunition, I'm sure your answer will be quite idiotic and not in step with reality. Am I right aagain? Will Mr "I know 2 people that own guns" impress us all with his wit and wisdom of firearms? Stay tuned!



I don't pretend to know what it's like to buy a gun as things are.  I'm simply talking about a hypothetical scenario, so please cut the arrogant bullshit now.  As for the license, there are things that can be done to make a license more difficult to duplicate, such as holograms and such.  Also, could you PLEASE tone down the attitude?  If you expect me to continue to reply to your posts, your going to have to learn to be civil and stop belittling people.

Quote:

Quote:


I'm well aware of the background check.  I don't know why I bother responding to your posts.  You never comprehend a damn thing I say anyway.




Good of you to dodge the issue here. Since you "well aware", not just simply aware of the check, why don't you tell us all what the check entails? Thanks.  Maybe you can ask one of your two shady friends that owns guns.



First of all, quit nitpicking.  All I meant by "well aware" was that I was aware that they had a background check.  Second, those two guys I know who have guns are not my friends.  I don't have any shady friends.

Quote:

Quote:


They can vote your guns away, but they haven't.  If they do, then whether you're required to have a license or not will not make a difference.



Actually, wether or not they vote to take them away won't make a difference.  Cops, most likley, would never enforce such a law, and if they did, well, heh, they have 9mm pistols, and, while I do to, I also have a myraid of other weapons. "from my cold dead fingers..." and all.



Good.  Glad to hear it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453620 - 03/20/04 07:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

See above. And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.




Needed a license to buy pot recently?

Look man, it's obvious your gun knowledge is lacking. It's no harder to buy a gun in many cities than it is to buy pot.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453715 - 03/20/04 10:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I was referring to the fact that I'm talking in theoretical terms. Forget the restrictions that exist now when you purchase a gun and replace those with having to get a license to buy one.




What would the requirements be for this license? If it's the exact same as the background check now, wouldn't it be just changing the name of the process?
Quote:


See above. And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.




So how would this differ from the background check that occurs now? I recommend going to agun store today and asking the people that run it how a background check operates. It's not the responsibility of the gun store, the gun manufacturer, or the ammunition company to ensure you know how to use their products "safely". Would background checks and safety lessons be required for any weapon ?Anything dangerous? how about for beer? Knives? Why do you think that MORE fgovernment involvement will help out?
Quote:


I don't pretend to know what it's like to buy a gun as things are. I'm simply talking about a hypothetical scenario, so please cut the arrogant bullshit now. As for the license, there are things that can be done to make a license more difficult to duplicate, such as holograms and such. Also, could you PLEASE tone down the attitude? If you expect me to continue to reply to your posts, your going to have to learn to be civil and stop belittling people.




I will be happy to agree to those conditions, on the condition that you only speak about issues you know about. When you say that X event cannot happen, and you admit your lack of emperical knowledge about said event and have never experienced said event, it becomes quite hard to not want to show you how wrong you are. Lets say that I was saying, oh, that 98% of "niggers" enjoy raping white women. you'd CERTAINTLY get upset about that, and you'r just as certaintly ask me where I obtained this statistic out. I'm just doing the same for you.

You still haven't shown the difference between this "license" that would be needed and teh current background check. A gun store located in the middle of a town can't possibly ensure you know your gun safety around loaded firearms, because 1) They, most likley, don't want people that they don't know carrying loaded firearms in their store 2) They don't want the liability if something were to happen on the range they use for firearm instruction and 3) It's not their damn job. A background check ensureing that you aren't a convicted criminal, that you don't have charges pressed against you that could result in a one year + jail sentance, that you have never been convicted of child-molestation or related charges, etc, should be sufficient for them to sell you the firearm.

Let me say here, before I am misunderstood, that I am a strong advocate of gun safety. If a person wants to take a gun safety class, the NRA has wonderful instructors that operate on qualified ranges that they are paying insurance on to absovle them of liability. It is their job to teach you how to shoot safely, it is NOT the job of the person selling you the gun.

Also, the ability to handle a gun properly and safely on the range or in the field still doesn't preclude one from waking up and hearing a bump in the night, coming downstairs and shooting their child that is sneaking in late at night.
Quote:


First of all, quit nitpicking. All I meant by "well aware" was that I was aware that they had a background check. Second, those two guys I know who have guns are not my friends. I don't have any shady friends.




Again, I am sorry for being rude to you in this post. I just strongly dislike when people that don't exercize their right to bear arms tell me what it's like to purchase a gun. Would you like it if I told you about something you are good at, that I've never done, like being a commie pinko :-) Just kidding.
Quote:


Good. Glad to hear it.




I wonder if anyone can find some stats that show the % of gun owners that voluntarily paid for classes to own their guns. Most gun owners DO take these classes, and most guns are sold with a law-required (in my state) copy of a safety manual that some gov't agency deems appropriate to package with firearms detailing safety techniques. I'm not opposed to a background check, but I don't think that a gun shop owner should eb required to ensure that their customers are certified in gun safety.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2453725 - 03/20/04 10:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
There is no "right" to own firearms in Canada :smirk:



Sorry.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2454018 - 03/20/04 12:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hey, it doesn't bother me one bit. It's still just about as easy to get a gun here as it is un the US, and we have almost as high of a gun ownership rate as you guys do.

And yet, we have a fraction of the gun deaths that you guys do...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2454091 - 03/20/04 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Hey, it doesn't bother me one bit. It's still just about as easy to get a gun here as it is un the US, and we have almost as high of a gun ownership rate as you guys do.

And yet, we have a fraction of the gun deaths that you guys do...




Odd that nations (or parts of nations, or cities, or parts of cities) that have equal gun ownership but alot more, well, lets just say "cullurds", have alot more violence and gun crimes. Really odd. Really odd indeed.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454373 - 03/20/04 03:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I was referring to the fact that I'm talking in theoretical terms. Forget the restrictions that exist now when you purchase a gun and replace those with having to get a license to buy one.




What would the requirements be for this license? If it's the exact same as the background check now, wouldn't it be just changing the name of the process?



Does the current background check require a gun safety test?

Quote:

Quote:


See above. And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.




So how would this differ from the background check that occurs now? I recommend going to agun store today and asking the people that run it how a background check operates. It's not the responsibility of the gun store, the gun manufacturer, or the ammunition company to ensure you know how to use their products "safely". Would background checks and safety lessons be required for any weapon ?Anything dangerous? how about for beer? Knives? Why do you think that MORE fgovernment involvement will help out?



See my question above. I don't have the time to find a gun store and go just to ask a question like that. If you could fill me in on this, since you know so much about it, I'd appreciate it.

Quote:

Quote:


I don't pretend to know what it's like to buy a gun as things are. I'm simply talking about a hypothetical scenario, so please cut the arrogant bullshit now. As for the license, there are things that can be done to make a license more difficult to duplicate, such as holograms and such. Also, could you PLEASE tone down the attitude? If you expect me to continue to reply to your posts, your going to have to learn to be civil and stop belittling people.




I will be happy to agree to those conditions, on the condition that you only speak about issues you know about. When you say that X event cannot happen, and you admit your lack of emperical knowledge about said event and have never experienced said event, it becomes quite hard to not want to show you how wrong you are. Lets say that I was saying, oh, that 98% of "niggers" enjoy raping white women. you'd CERTAINTLY get upset about that, and you'r just as certaintly ask me where I obtained this statistic out. I'm just doing the same for you.



But I'm not making statistics up off the top of my head. I'm going by what little I do know(or what I've been told) about guns, and don't try to present myself as any kind of authority on this. If I make a mistake, feel free to correct me. I don't mind, as long as you're not condescending about it.

Quote:

You still haven't shown the difference between this "license" that would be needed and teh current background check. A gun store located in the middle of a town can't possibly ensure you know your gun safety around loaded firearms, because 1) They, most likley, don't want people that they don't know carrying loaded firearms in their store 2) They don't want the liability if something were to happen on the range they use for firearm instruction and 3) It's not their damn job. A background check ensureing that you aren't a convicted criminal, that you don't have charges pressed against you that could result in a one year + jail sentance, that you have never been convicted of child-molestation or related charges, etc, should be sufficient for them to sell you the firearm.



Again, does the background check ensure that they know how to use the gun safely? If so, then I'll drop the discussion right here.

Quote:

Let me say here, before I am misunderstood, that I am a strong advocate of gun safety. If a person wants to take a gun safety class, the NRA has wonderful instructors that operate on qualified ranges that they are paying insurance on to absovle them of liability. It is their job to teach you how to shoot safely, it is NOT the job of the person selling you the gun.



I'm not asking that the person selling you the gun teach you how to use it. I'm saying all they'd have to do is ask to see your license, which you obtain by passing a safety test and background check(thus eliminating the need to do it when you buy the gun).

Quote:

Also, the ability to handle a gun properly and safely on the range or in the field still doesn't preclude one from waking up and hearing a bump in the night, coming downstairs and shooting their child that is sneaking in late at night.



I realize this, but it might at least lower such instances.

Quote:

Quote:


First of all, quit nitpicking. All I meant by "well aware" was that I was aware that they had a background check. Second, those two guys I know who have guns are not my friends. I don't have any shady friends.




Again, I am sorry for being rude to you in this post. I just strongly dislike when people that don't exercize their right to bear arms tell me what it's like to purchase a gun. Would you like it if I told you about something you are good at, that I've never done, like being a commie pinko :-) Just kidding.



I understand why you'd think I'm just bullshitting about something I know nothing about, but please understand that this is a learning process for me. I go into debates like this with what little knowledge I have, and if someone has some information that puts it in a new perspective, well then I come away having learned something new, and may or may not change my views based on that information.

Quote:

Quote:


Good. Glad to hear it.




I wonder if anyone can find some stats that show the % of gun owners that voluntarily paid for classes to own their guns. Most gun owners DO take these classes, and most guns are sold with a law-required (in my state) copy of a safety manual that some gov't agency deems appropriate to package with firearms detailing safety techniques. I'm not opposed to a background check, but I don't think that a gun shop owner should eb required to ensure that their customers are certified in gun safety.



Interesting. I didn't know that bit about the safety manual. Well then, I'm satisfied. I'll drop the discussion now.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2454447 - 03/20/04 03:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Does the current background check require a gun safety test?




No, it does not.
Quote:


Quote:


But I'm not making statistics up off the top of my head. I'm going by what little I do know(or what I've been told) about guns, and don't try to present myself as any kind of authority on this. If I make a mistake, feel free to correct me. I don't mind, as long as you're not condescending about it.




Even tho we disagree on a regular basis, I think you are extremely intelligent. I apologize for my eariler attitude and assure you I'll treat you with the same respect that you have afforded me.
Quote:


Again, does the background check ensure that they know how to use the gun safely? If so, then I'll drop the discussion right here.




No. what do you define as 'safely'? Most gun incidents could have been prevented with common sense, which you can't teach. Do you mean how to clear your weapon of a jammed bullet, or what?


Again, I publicly apolgize for my demeaning and condecending remarks. In certain situations (read: Alex) they are useful and pertanent, you, however, are very intelligent and I should not have behaved in the way that I did.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454532 - 03/20/04 03:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Odd that nations (or parts of nations, or cities, or parts of cities) that have equal gun ownership but alot more, well, lets just say "cullurds", have alot more violence and gun crimes. Really odd. Really odd indeed.




Canada is a multicultural country. I'm pretty sure we allow more immigration than the US does :wink:

racist pig...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454554 - 03/20/04 03:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Does the current background check require a gun safety test?




No, it does not.



Then that would be the difference between the background check and a license, now wouldn't it?

Quote:

Quote:

But I'm not making statistics up off the top of my head. I'm going by what little I do know(or what I've been told) about guns, and don't try to present myself as any kind of authority on this. If I make a mistake, feel free to correct me. I don't mind, as long as you're not condescending about it.




Even tho we disagree on a regular basis, I think you are extremely intelligent. I apologize for my eariler attitude and assure you I'll treat you with the same respect that you have afforded me.



Thank you. I appreciate it.

Quote:

Quote:


Again, does the background check ensure that they know how to use the gun safely? If so, then I'll drop the discussion right here.




No. what do you define as 'safely'? Most gun incidents could have been prevented with common sense, which you can't teach. Do you mean how to clear your weapon of a jammed bullet, or what?



Well, just as an example, some people keep their gun in an unlocked drawer where their children can find them, fully loaded with the safety off. I'm sure you can see where that might have some negative consequences.

Quote:

Again, I publicly apolgize for my demeaning and condecending remarks. In certain situations (read: Alex) they are useful and pertanent, you, however, are very intelligent and I should not have behaved in the way that I did.



Again, thank you. I have no problem debating with people who can keep things civil.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2455084 - 03/20/04 06:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Guns are a remarkable piece of engineering. The noise they make when you arm them, the muzzle flash, hot lead flying through the air. Guns are fucking amazing. The knowledge that you could kill anyone at a whim is very satisfying.

I can't keep my good guns in this country but I keep a musket round the house for laughs. I'm thinking about getting a cannon as well for defense against burglars.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2462060 - 03/23/04 12:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:

Well, just as an example, some people keep their gun in an unlocked drawer where their children can find them, fully loaded with the safety off. I'm sure you can see where that might have some negative consequences.






Many people who know that things are unsafe, still do them every day. Having someone learn safe proccedures doen't make that person safe. The fact is that people are falible and therefore mistakes will happen. Should I have to take a tricycle safety course just because I could possibly ride my tricycle out into the highway, in effect, killing myself and causing other deaths and injuries in the insuing accident, or should I just be expected to have common sense to know better than to do something dumb.

How much government do we need? At what point do we, as individuals, say,"OK, I can take it from here". I'm tired of loosing liberties in order for others to feel safe. It's all an illusion anyways.

Any new gun laws need to focus on punishment rather than prevention. Criminals will break the laws. We should not therefore regulate law abiding citizens to stop them. We should excercise swift and meaningfully harsh punishment against the offenders.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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