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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452371 - 03/19/04 07:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I think the issue here is the right to keep and bear arms, not the right to not have the government know about it.



As we were talking about licenses, it is the point that a paper trail of your purchase now exists.



No, there is now a paper trail to the fact that you are legally allowed to own a gun, not to any specific gun purchases you've made.

Quote:

Quote:

When they come to confiscate your guns(and by that I don't mean preventing you from future purchases), let me know.



I won't need to.



I doubt you'd need to even if you were required to get a license.

Quote:

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Also, requiring a license to purchase a gun doesn't mean tracking every gun purchase you make, just as requiring ID to buy alcohol doesn't mean tracking every one of those purchases.



It's apparent you've never bought a gun. Read up on Form 4473.



So? I'm not talking about the laws as they exist, I'm talking about the general idea of requiring a license. In fact, it seems to me that this form already leaves a paper trail to your purchase, so I don't see what further harm it could do if you had to get a license to buy a gun.

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And to drive a car, you need a license. Also, guns are more dangerous as weapons than baseball bats.



Weak. You don't need a license to purchase a car.



It's quite easy to tell if someone is driving a car, unless they're off-roading. Therefore, it's easy for a police officer to see if someone doesn't know what they're doing, and he can pull them over and ask to see their driver's license. If someone has a gun, they could keep it in their house, and no one outside would know about it--until they end up doing something stupid with it, in which case either they or one of their family members gets killed or injured. But I'll offer a compromise: Don't require a license to buy a gun, but require one to buy bullets. After all, there's no danger in having an unloaded gun(unless someone pisto-whips you, but that's not likely).

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That's why you have a standardized safety test, so that they don't discriminate by occupation, gender, race, etc.



Weaker. Perhaps then you'd care to explain why in areas of the country police are allowed to decide who gets permits? And perhaps you'd then tell us why celebs and friends of those who issue the licences get them but others do not?



Again, I'm not talking about laws as they are, but rather as they should be. A standardized safety test and criminal background check should be sufficient for getting a license.

Quote:

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If someone doesn't know basic gun safety they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Plain and simple. As for the black market, if idiots want to purchase a gun illegally and end up shooting their children by accident, then they get charged with both manslaughter and owning a gun without a license.



Again with the "allowed to own a gun". When the gov can decide who is allowed and who isn't, there is no telling when they will stop.



Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me. In this nation, we vote. If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452403 - 03/19/04 07:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Personally, I don't own a gun, mostly because they're so expensive. If I had the money, however, I'd get a good shotgun just for home protection. Of course, I'd take a few gun safety and maintainance courses afterwards.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452438 - 03/19/04 07:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

  Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me. In this nation, we vote. If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.



I'll merely laugh at this bit and let the rest slide.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,780
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2452549 - 03/19/04 08:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have no fears of my government coming to my house to take away my guns. They haven't done this to anyone yet, and don't look like they ever should.

If society/government degrades to the point where the government starts confiscating weapons from civilians, do you really think they will need to look for a gun licence to find your guns?

Also, my government does not confiscate gun purchase records from gun dealers except when required for specific cases under investigation (ie: when a gun death has occured). Your BATF has a habit of running around taking purchase lists from gun dealers without having any good reason to do so.

Unless you buy your weapons from the black market, there is a record of you buying that gun. :lol:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2452669 - 03/19/04 09:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:

Can you drive a car without a licence? No. Why? Because cars are dangerous and a person who does not know how to safely operate a vehicle could injure or kill other people.

Well I think the same thing applies to guns. A person who does not know how to properly and safely use a firearm has a much HIGHER chance of killing someone than a person driving a car does.





Owning and driving a car is not a right guarenteed by the constitution, it is a privilage and therfore licenseable. Keep and bear arms is a right and therfore no subject to liscensing. May times in history would be dictators confiscated the citizens guns first thing. So clearly it is in the publics intrest to have the citizens armed without any knowledge of the gov. This is the reason that the founding fathers ensured us the right to be armed. No to protect us from foreign invaders but to protect us from our government.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
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Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mescalinemark]
    #2452676 - 03/19/04 09:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mescalinemark said:
i live in a very wealthy city in texas actually the weakthiest, and i go to school with a lot of conservitive rich kids, most of the hunt family that arent in private school go here, some bush family members, tricky dick chainey used to live here, and i know alot of these people, my step dad is a for sucessful lawyer and very conservitive, we have lots of guns in our house(their is an elephant gun above my dinner table). some people own them for protection and i will not deny that, but conservitives arent to good with logic so im pretty sure thats not the reason most consercitives have them. I think it has more to do with them being subconciousley agresive and having a seriously complex inferiority complex its root in the king of all hypocracies, illogic, and other plauges to the development of the human race RELIGEON. I wont even participate in this forum because the only thing i dont like more than a conservitive is a drugged conservitive. normally i dont like to use the words like conservitive because they are marginalizing i dont feel that conservitives have any opinions of their own and that they are mearly bricks that give the nazi movement weight and sheep. I end this rant with a quote by John stuart mills "It isn't that most conservitives are stupid people, its just that most stupid people are conservitives."g




You go to a school that the Bush "family" (aren't they all in college? maybe you could name this fantasy school) sends their kids to, and this is the best you can type and express yourself? Either the school is failing miserably, or you are.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452694 - 03/19/04 09:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No, there is now a paper trail to the fact that you are legally allowed to own a gun, not to any specific gun purchases you've made.




How I dearly love it when you type such bullshit, how sweet your ignorance is to my ears.

How many guns have you purchased?

Where do you draw the information that their isn't a paper trail for any specific gun purchases? I really want to hear this, further insults and facts proving your assinine subjective guestimes wrong to follow, stay tuneD!
Quote:


So? I'm not talking about the laws as they exist, I'm talking about the general idea of requiring a license. In fact, it seems to me that this form already leaves a paper trail to your purchase, so I don't see what further harm it could do if you had to get a license to buy a gun.




Uh, this actually contradicts your own statement a little big back. When you purchase a firearm, a copy of the form goes to your state and local police. The state police keep it on record for tracking purposes (i.e. to call in a serial number of a firearm and locate the registered owner) and the local police keep track of it to identify any possible firearm trafficking rackets. When you transfer ownership of a firearm, you have to go to a FFL (or the state police in some states) and have them do the legal transfer so the firearm with serial number 'x' is registered to person 'y'. Instead of saying all of these things, why not just put "I have no idea how guns are used, bought or sold, but that won't stop me from having a bias opinion based on my random guesses as to the procedures" in your signature line, it would make it much easier for those of us that do own guns and know the law. Thanks
Quote:


But I'll offer a compromise: Don't require a license to buy a gun, but require one to buy bullets. After all, there's no danger in having an unloaded gun(unless someone pisto-whips you, but that's not likely).




And what about home reloaders? Oh, hah, wait, I assumed you had some knowledge of firearms and related accessories, something you've shown you don't have. See, people, ok, like the redneck idiots that own guns, they have thingies, ok, called 'reloading machines", that like, reload the bullet thingies with the black stuff that goes bangybangband and the tips that go into people and the thingy that makes the powder stuff go bangybangbang. Is that simple and bias enough for you yet?
Quote:


Again, I'm not talking about laws as they are, but rather as they should be. A standardized safety test and criminal background check should be sufficient for getting a license.




A car dealer can sell you a car without ensuring you are properly aware of the safe operation of it. And, guess what, you showed your ignorance of the gun buying experience and related laws YET AGAIN, to purchase firearms, YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK! Boy, this is the best post you've made yet! hah, geez.
Quote:


Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me. In this nation, we vote. If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.



Ok, you and your hippy, tree-hugging, know-noting gun haters can walk up to my house and vote my guns away from me. But, to paraphrase whacko survivalist Kurt Saxon "Some people store gold, some people store guns, but I know that when the fall comes, those with guns won't have any trouble getting gold". :-) Maybe you could make paper airplanes out of the voting slip thing and throw them at me, right?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,780
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2452707 - 03/19/04 09:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

There is no "right" to own firearms in Canada :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452717 - 03/19/04 09:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
No, there is now a paper trail to the fact that you are legally allowed to own a gun, not to any specific gun purchases you've made.




How I dearly love it when you type such bullshit, how sweet your ignorance is to my ears.

How many guns have you purchased?

Where do you draw the information that their isn't a paper trail for any specific gun purchases? I really want to hear this, further insults and facts proving your assinine subjective guestimes wrong to follow, stay tuneD!



Read my reply to luvdemshrooms regarding this.  Thanks.

Quote:

Quote:


So?  I'm not talking about the laws as they exist, I'm talking about the general idea of requiring a license.  In fact, it seems to me that this form already leaves a paper trail to your purchase, so I don't see what further harm it could do if you had to get a license to buy a gun.




Uh, this actually contradicts your own statement a little big back.  When you purchase a firearm, a copy of the form goes to your state and local police.  The state police keep it on record for tracking purposes (i.e. to call in a serial number of a firearm and locate the registered owner) and the local police keep track of it to identify any possible firearm trafficking rackets.  When you transfer ownership of a firearm, you have to go to a FFL (or the state police in some states) and have them do the legal transfer so the firearm with serial number 'x' is registered to person 'y'.  Instead of saying all of these things, why not just put "I have no idea how guns are used, bought or sold, but that won't stop me from having a bias opinion based on my random guesses as to the procedures" in your signature line, it would make it much easier for those of us that do own guns and know the law. Thanks



:yawn:  You have a very difficult time with comprehension, I see.  Once again, I am NOT talking about how things are done now.  I'm talking theoretically here.

Quote:

Quote:


But I'll offer a compromise: Don't require a license to buy a gun, but require one to buy bullets.  After all, there's no danger in having an unloaded gun(unless someone pisto-whips you, but that's not likely).




And what about home reloaders? Oh, hah, wait, I assumed you had some knowledge of firearms and related accessories, something you've shown you don't have.  See, people, ok, like the redneck idiots that own guns, they have thingies, ok, called 'reloading machines", that like, reload the bullet thingies with the black stuff that goes bangybangband and the tips that go into people and the thingy that makes the powder stuff go bangybangbang.  Is that simple and bias enough for you yet?



Maybe if you said it in plain english instead of baby talk.

Quote:

Quote:


Again, I'm not talking about laws as they are, but rather as they should be.  A standardized safety test and criminal background check should be sufficient for getting a license.




A car dealer can sell you a car without ensuring you are properly aware of the safe operation of it.  And, guess what, you showed your ignorance of the gun buying experience and related laws YET AGAIN, to purchase firearms, YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK! Boy, this is the best post you've made yet! hah, geez.



I'm well aware of the background check.  I don't know why I bother responding to your posts.  You never comprehend a damn thing I say anyway.

Quote:

Quote:


Sorry, but the slippery slope argument isn't going to work on me.  In this nation, we vote.  If the government is being too unfair in deciding who can own a gun and who can't, we can vote them out.



Ok, you and your hippy, tree-hugging, know-noting gun haters can walk up to my house and vote my guns away from me.  But, to paraphrase whacko survivalist Kurt Saxon "Some people store gold, some people store guns, but I know that when the fall comes, those with guns won't have any trouble getting gold". :-) Maybe you could make paper airplanes out of the voting slip thing and throw them at me, right?



They can vote your guns away, but they haven't.  If they do, then whether you're required to have a license or not will not make a difference.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2452728 - 03/19/04 09:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I have no fears of my government coming to my house to take away my guns. They haven't done this to anyone yet, and don't look like they ever should.




I see your "tag" is "Canadian bacon". IF you are in Canada, that might be true. If you are in the USA, i'd refer you to Randy Weaver and numerous other gun-owning "white supremacists" that were arrested, or better, had their families killed (fucking FBI) for "gun violations".
Quote:


If society/government degrades to the point where the government starts confiscating weapons from civilians, do you really think they will need to look for a gun licence to find your guns?




No, they'll go to the gun store, the state police, or the local sherrifs office, all three of whom keep copies of firearm transfer papers on hand, and find out what you own and where you live and work. However, if you buy a gun illegally, none of this is true.
Quote:


Also, my government does not confiscate gun purchase records from gun dealers except when required for specific cases under investigation (ie: when a gun death has occured). Your BATF has a habit of running around taking purchase lists from gun dealers without having any good reason to do so.




No, they don't. This is absurd. When you purchase a firearm, a copy of your name, SSN, address, DOB, race, height, weight, dviers license number, work address and serial number, make and model of the firearm you purchased gets put on file at the local sheriff, and the state police. Gun stores have the option of keeping or destroying their records. The BATF would have as much need to go to a gun store to get lists of who owns guns as the DOT would have to go to car dealerships to see who owns what vehicles.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,780
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452745 - 03/19/04 09:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I am from Canada and as I said I have no fears of my government coming to arrest me for owning guns or of them trying to take those guns away from me.

Most people seem to think that we here in Canada have some crazy strict gun-control system that makes it so hard to get a gun. We do require a gun licence to own or purchase firearms (it's called a FAC - Firearm Aquisition Certificate).

However Canada has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. Actually I think we're right behind the US :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2452751 - 03/19/04 09:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Read my reply to luvdemshrooms regarding this.  Thanks.




I didn't see one that addresses this issue of your lack of ability to properly expres your thoughts, or your lack of knowledge about this particular situation.  How about I read the copy of the paperwork I signed four days ago when I bought a new pistol, then you do the same, and we'll compare results? Oh, hah, you don't own guns and you enjoy talking out of your ass. Thanks.
Quote:


:yawn:  You have a very difficult time with comprehension, I see.  Once again, I am NOT talking about how things are done now.  I'm talking theoretically here.




You might think you are, but you aren't. This theoretical form that you fill out *Gasp* actually exists!  What good would a license do? All you have to do to have a concealed carry permit is pass the EXACT same background check that you do to purchase firearms (pistols, to be precise).  So if you can pass the check to get a pistol, you are, ipso facto, passing the test to have a permit. What difference would you recommend in the requirements to purchase a firearm and the requirements to have a permit allowing you to own guns (since, apparently, the constitution doesn't do that for you)?
Quote:


Maybe if you said it in plain english instead of baby talk.




Plain english, baby talk, you'll respond more with your in-depth knowledge of how the gun purchasing process goes down, and I'll just laugh at it either way.  Why would you require people to have a license to buy bullets when they can be easily fabricated in the home? What part of the home manufacture would you require a license to purchase? Since this involves a knowledge of the parts of a round of ammunition, I'm sure your answer will be quite idiotic and not in step with reality. Am I right aagain? Will Mr "I know 2 people that own guns" impress us all with his wit and wisdom of firearms? Stay tuned!
Quote:


I'm well aware of the background check.  I don't know why I bother responding to your posts.  You never comprehend a damn thing I say anyway.




Good of you to dodge the issue here. Since you "well aware", not just simply aware of the check, why don't you tell us all what the check entails? Thanks.  Maybe you can ask one of your two shady friends that owns guns.
Quote:


They can vote your guns away, but they haven't.  If they do, then whether you're required to have a license or not will not make a difference.



Actually, wether or not they vote to take them away won't make a difference.  Cops, most likley, would never enforce such a law, and if they did, well, heh, they have 9mm pistols, and, while I do to, I also have a myraid of other weapons. "from my cold dead fingers..." and all.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2452791 - 03/19/04 09:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Read my reply to luvdemshrooms regarding this.  Thanks.




I didn't see one that addresses this issue of your lack of ability to properly expres your thoughts, or your lack of knowledge about this particular situation.  How about I read the copy of the paperwork I signed four days ago when I bought a new pistol, then you do the same, and we'll compare results? Oh, hah, you don't own guns and you enjoy talking out of your ass. Thanks.



I was referring to the fact that I'm talking in theoretical terms.  Forget the restrictions that exist now when you purchase a gun and replace those with having to get a license to buy one.
Quote:

Quote:


:yawn:  You have a very difficult time with comprehension, I see.  Once again, I am NOT talking about how things are done now.  I'm talking theoretically here.




You might think you are, but you aren't. This theoretical form that you fill out *Gasp* actually exists!  What good would a license do? All you have to do to have a concealed carry permit is pass the EXACT same background check that you do to purchase firearms (pistols, to be precise).  So if you can pass the check to get a pistol, you are, ipso facto, passing the test to have a permit. What difference would you recommend in the requirements to purchase a firearm and the requirements to have a permit allowing you to own guns (since, apparently, the constitution doesn't do that for you)?



See above.  And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.

Quote:

Quote:


Maybe if you said it in plain english instead of baby talk.




Plain english, baby talk, you'll respond more with your in-depth knowledge of how the gun purchasing process goes down, and I'll just laugh at it either way.  Why would you require people to have a license to buy bullets when they can be easily fabricated in the home? What part of the home manufacture would you require a license to purchase? Since this involves a knowledge of the parts of a round of ammunition, I'm sure your answer will be quite idiotic and not in step with reality. Am I right aagain? Will Mr "I know 2 people that own guns" impress us all with his wit and wisdom of firearms? Stay tuned!



I don't pretend to know what it's like to buy a gun as things are.  I'm simply talking about a hypothetical scenario, so please cut the arrogant bullshit now.  As for the license, there are things that can be done to make a license more difficult to duplicate, such as holograms and such.  Also, could you PLEASE tone down the attitude?  If you expect me to continue to reply to your posts, your going to have to learn to be civil and stop belittling people.

Quote:

Quote:


I'm well aware of the background check.  I don't know why I bother responding to your posts.  You never comprehend a damn thing I say anyway.




Good of you to dodge the issue here. Since you "well aware", not just simply aware of the check, why don't you tell us all what the check entails? Thanks.  Maybe you can ask one of your two shady friends that owns guns.



First of all, quit nitpicking.  All I meant by "well aware" was that I was aware that they had a background check.  Second, those two guys I know who have guns are not my friends.  I don't have any shady friends.

Quote:

Quote:


They can vote your guns away, but they haven't.  If they do, then whether you're required to have a license or not will not make a difference.



Actually, wether or not they vote to take them away won't make a difference.  Cops, most likley, would never enforce such a law, and if they did, well, heh, they have 9mm pistols, and, while I do to, I also have a myraid of other weapons. "from my cold dead fingers..." and all.



Good.  Glad to hear it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453620 - 03/20/04 07:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

See above. And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.




Needed a license to buy pot recently?

Look man, it's obvious your gun knowledge is lacking. It's no harder to buy a gun in many cities than it is to buy pot.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2453715 - 03/20/04 10:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I was referring to the fact that I'm talking in theoretical terms. Forget the restrictions that exist now when you purchase a gun and replace those with having to get a license to buy one.




What would the requirements be for this license? If it's the exact same as the background check now, wouldn't it be just changing the name of the process?
Quote:


See above. And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.




So how would this differ from the background check that occurs now? I recommend going to agun store today and asking the people that run it how a background check operates. It's not the responsibility of the gun store, the gun manufacturer, or the ammunition company to ensure you know how to use their products "safely". Would background checks and safety lessons be required for any weapon ?Anything dangerous? how about for beer? Knives? Why do you think that MORE fgovernment involvement will help out?
Quote:


I don't pretend to know what it's like to buy a gun as things are. I'm simply talking about a hypothetical scenario, so please cut the arrogant bullshit now. As for the license, there are things that can be done to make a license more difficult to duplicate, such as holograms and such. Also, could you PLEASE tone down the attitude? If you expect me to continue to reply to your posts, your going to have to learn to be civil and stop belittling people.




I will be happy to agree to those conditions, on the condition that you only speak about issues you know about. When you say that X event cannot happen, and you admit your lack of emperical knowledge about said event and have never experienced said event, it becomes quite hard to not want to show you how wrong you are. Lets say that I was saying, oh, that 98% of "niggers" enjoy raping white women. you'd CERTAINTLY get upset about that, and you'r just as certaintly ask me where I obtained this statistic out. I'm just doing the same for you.

You still haven't shown the difference between this "license" that would be needed and teh current background check. A gun store located in the middle of a town can't possibly ensure you know your gun safety around loaded firearms, because 1) They, most likley, don't want people that they don't know carrying loaded firearms in their store 2) They don't want the liability if something were to happen on the range they use for firearm instruction and 3) It's not their damn job. A background check ensureing that you aren't a convicted criminal, that you don't have charges pressed against you that could result in a one year + jail sentance, that you have never been convicted of child-molestation or related charges, etc, should be sufficient for them to sell you the firearm.

Let me say here, before I am misunderstood, that I am a strong advocate of gun safety. If a person wants to take a gun safety class, the NRA has wonderful instructors that operate on qualified ranges that they are paying insurance on to absovle them of liability. It is their job to teach you how to shoot safely, it is NOT the job of the person selling you the gun.

Also, the ability to handle a gun properly and safely on the range or in the field still doesn't preclude one from waking up and hearing a bump in the night, coming downstairs and shooting their child that is sneaking in late at night.
Quote:


First of all, quit nitpicking. All I meant by "well aware" was that I was aware that they had a background check. Second, those two guys I know who have guns are not my friends. I don't have any shady friends.




Again, I am sorry for being rude to you in this post. I just strongly dislike when people that don't exercize their right to bear arms tell me what it's like to purchase a gun. Would you like it if I told you about something you are good at, that I've never done, like being a commie pinko :-) Just kidding.
Quote:


Good. Glad to hear it.




I wonder if anyone can find some stats that show the % of gun owners that voluntarily paid for classes to own their guns. Most gun owners DO take these classes, and most guns are sold with a law-required (in my state) copy of a safety manual that some gov't agency deems appropriate to package with firearms detailing safety techniques. I'm not opposed to a background check, but I don't think that a gun shop owner should eb required to ensure that their customers are certified in gun safety.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2453725 - 03/20/04 10:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
There is no "right" to own firearms in Canada :smirk:



Sorry.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,780
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2454018 - 03/20/04 12:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hey, it doesn't bother me one bit. It's still just about as easy to get a gun here as it is un the US, and we have almost as high of a gun ownership rate as you guys do.

And yet, we have a fraction of the gun deaths that you guys do...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: trendal]
    #2454091 - 03/20/04 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Hey, it doesn't bother me one bit. It's still just about as easy to get a gun here as it is un the US, and we have almost as high of a gun ownership rate as you guys do.

And yet, we have a fraction of the gun deaths that you guys do...




Odd that nations (or parts of nations, or cities, or parts of cities) that have equal gun ownership but alot more, well, lets just say "cullurds", have alot more violence and gun crimes. Really odd. Really odd indeed.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2454373 - 03/20/04 03:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheOneYouKnow said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I was referring to the fact that I'm talking in theoretical terms. Forget the restrictions that exist now when you purchase a gun and replace those with having to get a license to buy one.




What would the requirements be for this license? If it's the exact same as the background check now, wouldn't it be just changing the name of the process?



Does the current background check require a gun safety test?

Quote:

Quote:


See above. And I'll tell you what good a license will do: it will ensure that only those that can pass a gun safety test(and have no criminal record) can buy a gun.




So how would this differ from the background check that occurs now? I recommend going to agun store today and asking the people that run it how a background check operates. It's not the responsibility of the gun store, the gun manufacturer, or the ammunition company to ensure you know how to use their products "safely". Would background checks and safety lessons be required for any weapon ?Anything dangerous? how about for beer? Knives? Why do you think that MORE fgovernment involvement will help out?



See my question above. I don't have the time to find a gun store and go just to ask a question like that. If you could fill me in on this, since you know so much about it, I'd appreciate it.

Quote:

Quote:


I don't pretend to know what it's like to buy a gun as things are. I'm simply talking about a hypothetical scenario, so please cut the arrogant bullshit now. As for the license, there are things that can be done to make a license more difficult to duplicate, such as holograms and such. Also, could you PLEASE tone down the attitude? If you expect me to continue to reply to your posts, your going to have to learn to be civil and stop belittling people.




I will be happy to agree to those conditions, on the condition that you only speak about issues you know about. When you say that X event cannot happen, and you admit your lack of emperical knowledge about said event and have never experienced said event, it becomes quite hard to not want to show you how wrong you are. Lets say that I was saying, oh, that 98% of "niggers" enjoy raping white women. you'd CERTAINTLY get upset about that, and you'r just as certaintly ask me where I obtained this statistic out. I'm just doing the same for you.



But I'm not making statistics up off the top of my head. I'm going by what little I do know(or what I've been told) about guns, and don't try to present myself as any kind of authority on this. If I make a mistake, feel free to correct me. I don't mind, as long as you're not condescending about it.

Quote:

You still haven't shown the difference between this "license" that would be needed and teh current background check. A gun store located in the middle of a town can't possibly ensure you know your gun safety around loaded firearms, because 1) They, most likley, don't want people that they don't know carrying loaded firearms in their store 2) They don't want the liability if something were to happen on the range they use for firearm instruction and 3) It's not their damn job. A background check ensureing that you aren't a convicted criminal, that you don't have charges pressed against you that could result in a one year + jail sentance, that you have never been convicted of child-molestation or related charges, etc, should be sufficient for them to sell you the firearm.



Again, does the background check ensure that they know how to use the gun safely? If so, then I'll drop the discussion right here.

Quote:

Let me say here, before I am misunderstood, that I am a strong advocate of gun safety. If a person wants to take a gun safety class, the NRA has wonderful instructors that operate on qualified ranges that they are paying insurance on to absovle them of liability. It is their job to teach you how to shoot safely, it is NOT the job of the person selling you the gun.



I'm not asking that the person selling you the gun teach you how to use it. I'm saying all they'd have to do is ask to see your license, which you obtain by passing a safety test and background check(thus eliminating the need to do it when you buy the gun).

Quote:

Also, the ability to handle a gun properly and safely on the range or in the field still doesn't preclude one from waking up and hearing a bump in the night, coming downstairs and shooting their child that is sneaking in late at night.



I realize this, but it might at least lower such instances.

Quote:

Quote:


First of all, quit nitpicking. All I meant by "well aware" was that I was aware that they had a background check. Second, those two guys I know who have guns are not my friends. I don't have any shady friends.




Again, I am sorry for being rude to you in this post. I just strongly dislike when people that don't exercize their right to bear arms tell me what it's like to purchase a gun. Would you like it if I told you about something you are good at, that I've never done, like being a commie pinko :-) Just kidding.



I understand why you'd think I'm just bullshitting about something I know nothing about, but please understand that this is a learning process for me. I go into debates like this with what little knowledge I have, and if someone has some information that puts it in a new perspective, well then I come away having learned something new, and may or may not change my views based on that information.

Quote:

Quote:


Good. Glad to hear it.




I wonder if anyone can find some stats that show the % of gun owners that voluntarily paid for classes to own their guns. Most gun owners DO take these classes, and most guns are sold with a law-required (in my state) copy of a safety manual that some gov't agency deems appropriate to package with firearms detailing safety techniques. I'm not opposed to a background check, but I don't think that a gun shop owner should eb required to ensure that their customers are certified in gun safety.



Interesting. I didn't know that bit about the safety manual. Well then, I'm satisfied. I'll drop the discussion now.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
addict
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Why do you own firearms? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2454447 - 03/20/04 03:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Does the current background check require a gun safety test?




No, it does not.
Quote:


Quote:


But I'm not making statistics up off the top of my head. I'm going by what little I do know(or what I've been told) about guns, and don't try to present myself as any kind of authority on this. If I make a mistake, feel free to correct me. I don't mind, as long as you're not condescending about it.




Even tho we disagree on a regular basis, I think you are extremely intelligent. I apologize for my eariler attitude and assure you I'll treat you with the same respect that you have afforded me.
Quote:


Again, does the background check ensure that they know how to use the gun safely? If so, then I'll drop the discussion right here.




No. what do you define as 'safely'? Most gun incidents could have been prevented with common sense, which you can't teach. Do you mean how to clear your weapon of a jammed bullet, or what?


Again, I publicly apolgize for my demeaning and condecending remarks. In certain situations (read: Alex) they are useful and pertanent, you, however, are very intelligent and I should not have behaved in the way that I did.


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