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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Penis Envy Teks?
    #24478157 - 07/12/17 02:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

My PE syringe has been shipped and I was hoping that by the time it gets to my home, that I would actually have a PE Tek to execute. I have been scouring the Shroomery for days now for an end-to-end PE tek, to no avail. Could someone kindly point me to one?

Couple of tek questions:
1) Does PE fruit on horse poo? Is that the recommended substrate?

2) If cakes are not recommended, and if I should spawn to a monotub, what exact constituents for a substrate mix should I use and what mix proportions? 50/50/ 60/40? 70/30?

Thanks.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478195 - 07/12/17 03:12 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I dint think there are any teks perse and pe will fruit on coir or hpoo .. i use professor pinheads bulk sub tek .. its a half brick coir 2lbs hpoo 2qts course verm and a half pint gypsum and i add about 4.t to 5qts water for a 66qt tub... and i do 5 qts spawn to that its about 10qts sub give or take


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478208 - 07/12/17 03:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You can use any cubensis tek.  Some people have pulled of epic cake grows of PE, but I think they tend to flop more often than win.  I would suggest you make several mini monotubs.  Multispore syringe to grain is not a foolproof method, you will prolly get some good jars, some bad jars, and some jars that look okay that are bad.  By compartmentalizing them into several minis you can avoid one big fail.  You can also do shoeboxes in a regular mono, or just use say vegetable section bags from the grocery store to make blocks with a jar of spawn a piece in a mono.

Generally speaking, I think most agree that a peat based casing is ideal for PE, and potentially a higher spawn ratio.  You can use poo, but afaik it doesn't have any special advantage for PE.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...

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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24478235 - 07/12/17 03:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks BoogieMan47. I'll check that out!

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478239 - 07/12/17 03:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I would not try horse poo unless your pasteurization tek is spot on and you are sure. CVG works fine. Also don't do cakes, PE require a lot of water, more than cakes will hold. Do shoe boxes, like below or a tub. Let them colonize to 100% then case them with about 1/2" casing layer. Then fruit.



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Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...

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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #24478254 - 07/12/17 03:29 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Some great advice there. Thank you.

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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24478259 - 07/12/17 03:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Ok. Thanks. What's CVG?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478263 - 07/12/17 03:32 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

PE is a cube.  Use a cube tek.  Not anything special to grow, until it fruits :freewilly:

HPOO is prime, either ask around for a pile or peruse a pasture for the fuzzy white firefang.  Straw works fine too.  If you're doing a custom mix with what you have on hand, I'd just go by consistency.  Include about 5% gypsum.

Start MS --> Agar

After a transfer or two, Agar --> LC

You can keep isolating on other plates if you're looking for a master culture.

LC --> Grains

Grain --> Bulk sub

Skip the cakes, unless you're making them birthday sized.  It's all about the spawn bags these days.


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O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478268 - 07/12/17 03:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

LotKid does alot of pe, look through his grow logs maybe he'll pop in the tread.
But pretty much what they said.

Coir/verm/gypsum


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(when my data is fast play Lemur in chess at chess.com)[ [gradient:#D40B29,#18C418]Any1 expecting a trade from me i havent forgot about you pinky promise, i fr promise shits just shit rt now[/gradient]

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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24478289 - 07/12/17 03:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks. But re The horse poo thing. But don't some of these suppliers e.g Outgrow sell their horse poo already pasteurized? Or is that not to be trusted? And if not, why wouldn't 5mins in the microwave do the trick?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478321 - 07/12/17 03:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

No hpoo needs to be pasteurized at 14 to 165 for atleast 1 hour


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24478389 - 07/12/17 04:22 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

CVG = coir / vermiculite / gypsum. The shrooms will get the bulk of their nutrients from grain you use for spawn. Neither coir nor vermiculite require complete pasteurization because they don't naturally allow contaminates to grow on them. Check out Bods bucket tek for prepping the substrate. I use a 5 gallon water cooler.

For a 66 quart tub - 650 grams dry coir, 2 quarts dry vermiculite, handful of gypsum. 4 quarts boiling water. Check for proper field capacity. You can search a lot of this info on this site with the search function.

Yoosername makes a good point. You up your chances of achieving clean spawn considerably if you learn to use agar. Not saying MS to grain won't work, but if you go that route I would do shoeboxes

Also make sure your spawn to bulk substrate ratio is good. At least 1 quart jar of spawn per shoe box.

Good luck!


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Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24478460 - 07/12/17 04:57 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LemurLemur]
    #24478524 - 07/12/17 05:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LemurLemur said:
LotKid does alot of pe, look through his grow logs maybe he'll pop in the tread.
But pretty much what they said.

Coir/verm/gypsum




:hi:

Don't believe the hype, PE is not very difficult. So far a lot of good advice has been given.
Here's something I posted in another thread.
Quote:

LotKid said:
Okay y'all. Here's :2cents:

Clean it up on agar if you can.

IME PE benefits from consolidation. Let your spawn sit for a week or more after it's 100% colonized, I do.
I highly recommend going to bulk with it. I use CVG. I also case with 50-50+.
Peat/Verm @ 1:1
Hydrated lime @ 1 tsp per cup of dry peat
Gypsum @ 5-10% total dry volume (gypsum doesn't need to be exact the hydrated lime does)
I don't use oyster shell.

I mix my dry peat, lime and gypsum together and mix it really well then hydrate to field capacity.
I hydrate my verm separately. When both are properly hydrated I mix them together and pasteurize.
You may find this helpful:


I don't add my casing until the bulk sub is 100% colonized. I even let it sit for a couple days at 100%.
I like to add my casing at about 1/2" thick. I like to mist my sub before adding my casing and mist it again after I apply the casing.

Example:



After I apply my casing I keep FAE low and no direct light until the casing is partially colonized.
This also helps consolidate the myc which in my experience reduces or eliminates blobs.
Once my casing looks like this:


(see the myc just staring to peak out in spots?)
I increase FAE and start with direct light.
IME PE requires more water than classic cubes so make sure to keep them hydrated.
They also seem to like a little more FAE too. 

I highly recommend using 50-50+ casing. When using coir as a casing PE tends to rip through it and fully colonize it.
At that point the coir casing is acting as an extension of the sub and not as a casing.

You need a little patience with PE if you want it to turn out right.
If you're in a rush you can expect a blobset instead of a pinset.

Also yes, 6500k cfl for lighting on 12/12

Hope you find some of this helpful. :goodluck:




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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LemurLemur]
    #24478529 - 07/12/17 05:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the info. Agar is a bit advanced for me. I will branch out, but baby steps.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478547 - 07/12/17 05:33 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

No! No! It is not advanced! It is basic an easy! Search pasty plates.
Your gonna do agar 1 day an wonder why tf u didnt do it earlier haha. Seriously get some agar it is easy an makes things so much easier, faster N CLEANER, personally i see as a necessity if u wanna grow more than a few quarters at a time an hate dealing with mold n bacteria constantly


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LemurLemur]
    #24478560 - 07/12/17 05:38 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24478574 - 07/12/17 05:41 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You'll need agar skills for this, but a good way of getting constant first flushes with PE varities is to start a bunch of multi spore projects at once, and which ever cultures fruit regular fruits first under normal conditions, and fast, clone.


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: hamloaf]
    #24478600 - 07/12/17 05:51 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

they will fruit on manure

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OfflineGalaxytripper
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LemurLemur]
    #24478941 - 07/12/17 08:23 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Oh alright. Thanks. I actually tried agar ages ago. I must have done it wrong. I waited for the agar to solidify, but then I think I squirted the spore syringe into it, but wasn't sure at the time whether that was the correct thing to do, or whether to prick the surface of the agar. Anyway, it failed, with contamination. Maybe my "sterile" technique wasn't up to much at the time.

So would you recommend Agar to start with rather than liquid culture in terms of ease of use and more importantly, benefit?

Edited by Galaxytripper (07/12/17 08:45 PM)

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478955 - 07/12/17 08:27 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes. Prep some agar and put a drop of spore solution on it.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24478974 - 07/12/17 08:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Go agar>agar>agar>grain>spawn your just getting it clean with agar for now, start a thread when u start it so these ppl can help ya.
When u get fruits do what Ham said n clone your first,fastest n biggest fruits by splitting it open in your SAB cut a peice out an place on agar.
You have several types of agar, pda/mea are commonly used.


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(when my data is fast play Lemur in chess at chess.com)[ [gradient:#D40B29,#18C418]Any1 expecting a trade from me i havent forgot about you pinky promise, i fr promise shits just shit rt now[/gradient]

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24479000 - 07/12/17 08:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, thanks, LotKid. I did find that helpful. I was looking around for your PE tek, but you beat me to the punch.

Quote:

I highly recommend going to bulk with it. I use CVG.




I get the casing thing, and the proportions etc.

But so Coir/Verm/Gypsum for the substrate. I've been trying to get an answer on here as to what exact proportions too: 60/40, 70/30 or what? (leaving aside the gypsum in the equation like Willy Myco does!)

I was getting set on hpoo as a substrate, but now I'm getting mixed signals here. (Thing, is I'll be buying hpoo anyway because I'm simultaneously growing Pan cyans, so I'll have it at least).

But so what's your take on hpoo then for PE? Or do you get great results from just the Coir/Verm/Gypsum?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479016 - 07/12/17 08:49 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If your not using horse poo then skip the gypsum

Follow any proven cube Tek

The reason people think PE is so hard and fail is because it fruits way slower than other cubes. Someone trys PE fr the first time and after 3 weeks of no pins they bug out and start misting too much, or not enough, of they freak out and add a casing when it's already past casing time etc

Just keep the fruiting conditions correct and consistent no matter what and eventually they will grow. PE really takes it's time, but if done right the rewards are worth it

--BG--

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479033 - 07/12/17 08:56 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You're welcome. I don't have a PE tek because you just follow any tek for cubes. That's just some tips I have for the PE variety since some aspects of that variety differ slightly from other cubes. I do the basic prep for my sub, nothing fancy. 2 dry qts of verm to 1 brick of coir. Then I throw in .5-1 quart of gypsum when the coir verm is cool.

Bucket TEK

Hpoo is unnecessary for PE. Great for Pans.

Willy Myco... :smbfacepalm:


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479049 - 07/12/17 09:02 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

As everyone else is saying, agar is pretty much essential to this hobby.  Once you get agar going, it's much easier to continue your grows without starting from the very beginning. 

Try shooting spores onto an agar plate again.  Just a couple drops.  You don't want a puddle in there, but a little water is ok.  You'll probably end up getting some bacteria growing on the plate too, but that's ok.  That's when you transfer the good mycelium to a clean plate. 

IMO, you should skip the LC your first few tries, just because it's an extra step.  Just cut a wedge from your agar and drop it into your grain.

Casing is also highly recommended, if not imperative for PE grows.  Some say it helps prevent mutant blobs, but that's not a proven fact.  At the very least, a casing layer holds in the moisture that PE craves. 

If you're not tight on money, purchase one of the agar kits from one of the shroomery sponsors (PM me for who I use).  The one I got when starting out comes with pre-poured plates, scalpel, and an alcohol lamp.  Great for learning.  The same vendor also sells pre-made/pre-sterilized mushroom substrate (base of manure, vermiculite, gypsum and coir) and casing mix (peat, verm, lime, and gypsum) that I have used with great success.  In fact, it's what I used first time I successfully grew PE.  Buying a bunch of pre-made shit is not ideal, budget-wise, but, it's a quick way to get some fruits and experience under your belt.

Another thing that I like to do is 'consolidate' the colonized grain jars longer than I normally would with regular cubes.  I actually do everything a little later than I normally would when I do PE.  I haven't had mutant blob flushes yet and I attribute that to delayed spawning, fruiting and casing.  Patience is key with PE, but they are so worth the wait.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Bird_Guts]
    #24479053 - 07/12/17 09:03 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, LotKid. I was looking for your PE tek based on the recommendations here, but you beat me to the punch. Thanks for the good info.

The casing thing/proportions I get. But I had questions about the substrate. So do you, for example, get better results with Coir/Verm/Gypsum than with hpoo?

(Thing is, I'm doing a simultaneous grow with Pan cyans so I'll need the hpoo for that anyway).

Is the CVG formula easier/better than hpoo? Less hassle? Less contams? Faster? -Like, what's an objective basis for choosing one over the other for PE?

Lastly, I've been asking about the proportions for the PE substrate for a bit. Leaving aside the gypsum element, is it a 50/50 Coir/Verm, or 60/40 mix or what?

Thanks!

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479058 - 07/12/17 09:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, LotKid. I was looking for your PE tek based on the recommendations here, but you beat me to the punch. Thanks for the good info.

The casing thing/proportions I get. But I had questions about the substrate. So do you, for example, get better results with Coir/Verm/Gypsum than with hpoo?

(Thing is, I'm doing a simultaneous grow with Pan cyans so I'll need the hpoo for that, anyway).

Is the CVG formula easier/better than hpoo? Less hassle? Less contams? Faster?

-Like, what's an objective basis for choosing one over the other?

Lastly, I've been asking about the proportions for the substrate for a bit. Leaving aside the gypsum element, is it a 50/50 Coir/Verm, or 60/40 mix or what?

Thanks.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479065 - 07/12/17 09:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a fruit at spawn tek from azure for PE and cubes.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22315950/fpart/1/vc/1


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479073 - 07/12/17 09:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Imo use poop if you can get it and don't mind the extra step to pasturize, I wouldn't ever even consider buying pre pasturize substrate from a vendor.

I notice a difference when I use poop, I also believe poop based subs grow way less blobs.

Cubes grow in dung enriched subs in nature, it's what they want, give it to them if you are able

--BG--

Edited by Bird_Guts (07/12/17 09:10 PM)

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479077 - 07/12/17 09:09 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

2 quarts of dry verm to 1 brick of coir. The gypsum isn't necessary. It's easier than hpoo and works just as well.

Edit: Unless you think your pasteurization game is up to par.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24479091 - 07/12/17 09:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

.5-1 quart of gypsum? Wow. That's a helluvalotta gypsum. That much?

Willy Myco - He calls Panaeolus Cyanescens "Panaylius Sciences" -Lol!
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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479101 - 07/12/17 09:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cookies said:
they will fruit on manure



I love your sig

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479107 - 07/12/17 09:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's what I use. It's really not a big % by total volume.

Willy Myco has some valid info but a lot of cringe worthy stuff too. Like what you just quoted. I wanted to reach through the screen and smack him when I heard that. :facepalm:


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: unfortunategent]
    #24479116 - 07/12/17 09:26 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

That's great. Thanks for the pointers. That's a great help. A lot to digest with everyone's kind contributions.

I had some unpleasant experiences on the Shroomery when I first started, people being nasty to me and telling me to use the Search function, and basically RTFM. People seem to be a lot more helpful when you're not a noob.

Thanks for the tips!

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24479135 - 07/12/17 09:34 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'll let y'all know what I decide on!

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24479139 - 07/12/17 09:36 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I'm sure you'll make it work. :super:


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24479330 - 07/12/17 11:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yup agar allows you to grow mycelium on a 2 dimensional surface allowing you to separate the mycelium growth from contamination. Showing some contamination on the 1st plate from a spore syringe is kinda the point, since most syringes have some bacteria or other contam. You separate the clean growth to another plate, and do that a couple times to get clean agar to use for grain spawn.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ] * 1
    #24479332 - 07/12/17 11:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I like when will myco says " yous guys"

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Bird_Guts] * 1
    #24479661 - 07/13/17 06:19 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

WM: "What chu-gotta-doooo"


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24480200 - 07/13/17 12:28 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I thought gypsum was the extra magic ingredient that mushrooms loved. I mean, wouldn't you use it anyway, rather than say it's not necessary?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24480232 - 07/13/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
I thought gypsum was the extra magic ingredient that mushrooms loved. I mean, wouldn't you use it anyway, rather than say it's not necessary?




I have never noticed any difference at all adding gypsum unless it's a poo based sub. What's weird to me is all the people saying coir performs as well as poop, it's just not true, poop Trump's coir

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper] * 1
    #24480240 - 07/13/17 12:54 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

If you have it or can get it then use it. If you don't have any you can still prep your substrate without it.
That's why I said that's it's not necessary because you can proceed without it.
I use it in both my sub and casing. Others don't use it in their sub and some don't do a 50/50+ casing so they don't use it period. So you can get away without it. But, I like to throw it in.

Edit: I think coir is just easier to prep and gets good results. Poo is great though. If you can get it and prep it right do it.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #24480881 - 07/13/17 05:20 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks Machiavelliavore.

I haven't done a monotub or a shoebox before, so I'm stretching out. But from what I've seen, I'm guessing for a shoebox, we do alternate layers, first of substrate, then grain, then substrate, then more grain etc. Is that right?

1) And would there some benefit to that rather than just mix it all together homogeneously, in terms of colonozation?

2) What substrate depth to use for PE? 2 inches? 3 inches?
I'm doing Pan cyans right now, and they're maximum 2 inches in depth.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24481006 - 07/13/17 06:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You can layer or mix, whichever you prefer.

I like a nice thick sub for my PE 3-4"


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24481408 - 07/13/17 09:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Cool. That was an important detail. Thanks!

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: JHOVA]
    #24481835 - 07/14/17 12:35 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Lol!

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24482974 - 07/14/17 02:18 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

With everyone's talk about substrate and casing methods, I nearly forgot to ask? I presume I am going to initially use quart jars of rye grain on its own for spawn, correct?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24483022 - 07/14/17 02:42 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
With everyone's talk about substrate and casing methods, I nearly forgot to ask? I presume I am going to initially use quart jars of rye grain on its own for spawn, correct?



I use oats but yes that will work fine. Make sure you properly prepare your grain. A lot of people soak and simmer their rye. For oats I just boil for 30 min or so stirring almost constantly. You want the grain to be cooked thru with the hull intact. Then drain and dry - big spaghetti strainer works well - till the grain passes the paper towel test. Fill your jars 2/3 of the way, seal with your lid / filter combo of choice, cover with foil  and PC for at least 90 min @ 15 psi. I usually go 2 hours at 20......


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24483399 - 07/14/17 05:35 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Great. Thanks. Perfect. See, I'm doing grains for the first time with my other Pan Cyan project. Following Willy Myco (facepalm!) I boiled the rye berries initially for 10 mins, then PC'd 8 quart jars. They're colonizing pretty ok. About a third colonized in some cases, since June 25th 2017. Colonized fast in the beginning, I get the impression they should be farther along because of the more "aggressive" myc of pans, and that they have slowed.

From what I've explained, do you think the colonization should be happening quicker? Or do you reckon the grain might not be sufficiently cooked? (Thanks Willy!)

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24483407 - 07/14/17 05:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

By the way, is there a reason you use oats? Is that because it's quicker, less boiling/requirements?Or does it matter which grain, unless a particular grain is unsuitable?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24483414 - 07/14/17 05:40 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I use WBS it works great. Oats can be finicky. WBS is more forgiving IMO.

I use This


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24483418 - 07/14/17 05:43 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I use oats primarily because

1). They are cheap - about $14 for 50 lbs which makes about 110 quart jars
2). They are readily available.
3). Less prep than rye

If you do decide to try oats you need WHOLE oats, what they use for horse feed. It has to have the hull on it and cannot be rolled oats.

Check out Bods EAF oat tek. Do a search for it. It works very well.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24483420 - 07/14/17 05:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

You're rye doesn't sound like it was properly prepared. You could also have dirty spawn or not enough FAE if the myc stalled.
If you already have rye then use it but prepare it this way:


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24483422 - 07/14/17 05:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
I use WBS it works great. Oats can be finicky. WBS is more forgiving IMO.

I use This



I hear ya, but I've been having great luck with oats! Just picked up another 50 lb bag. My jars colonize in 2 to 2.5 weeks. Since I started using oats I have not looked back...


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24483425 - 07/14/17 05:48 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
You're rye doesn't sound like it was properly prepared. You could also have dirty spawn or not enough FAE if the myc stalled.
:whathesaid:
Any of those are good reasons for stalled jars. But from what you said I bet the grain was undercooked....you want it completely cooked thru with the hull still intact.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24483440 - 07/14/17 05:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I've seen a few people try switching to oats and have problems. That makes me a little hesitant.
The cost difference between oats and the WBS I use is peanuts. I get 40lbs of WBS for $12.88 and 50lbs of oats for $12.50.
And the Tractor Supply is about 1 min farther down the road then Wally world from me. So both are cheap and convenient in my neck of the woods. :shrug:


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24483483 - 07/14/17 06:13 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
I've seen a few people try switching to oats and have problems. That makes me a little hesitant.
The cost difference between oats and the WBS I use is peanuts. I get 40lbs of WBS for $12.88 and 50lbs of oats for $12.50.
And the Tractor Supply is about 1 min farther down the road then Wally world from me. So both are cheap and convenient in my neck of the woods. :shrug:



Hey man whatever works! We all have our techniques. I kinda a felt the same way about WBS. Granted both are pretty economical. All that's important is it works!


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24483516 - 07/14/17 06:25 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Indeed. I have thought about giving them a try tho.
Who knows maybe I'll like them more than WBS.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24484946 - 07/15/17 11:38 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Well I did follow RR's video (courtesy of Willy Myco) and boiled the grain for 10 minutes. Then PC'd the mix for 90 mins @ 15psi.

Where I may have fallen down, now that I think about it, was when I strained the grain into a colandar. I poured cold water onto the grain to cool it down. Remind me (and others) not to do that again (assuming that contributed to the cooking condition of the grain.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24484956 - 07/15/17 11:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Rinsing with cold water after boiling :nono:
Did you soak them for 12-24?


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24484991 - 07/15/17 11:57 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Good luck with your new project.  I have some growlogs in my journal section if you want to check them out.

Back after a long hiatus, have many plates done up. PE (Chief), Ovoid and some Huatla

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24485207 - 07/15/17 01:44 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I am doing a BRF/gypsum Cake for PE how long before colonization starts...its been six days and 4 jars don't show any sign of well anything but the other 8 do and there doing great...also what would you use for a casing in a SGFC?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: BuildZWall]
    #24485215 - 07/15/17 01:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Never done cakes but a dunk and roll in fine verm will do. Make sure to keep your cakes well hydrated. PE is thirsty and will suck the moisture out of you cakes causing aborts.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485234 - 07/15/17 01:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks and I don't think ill have a problem with watering, should i be concerned about the four jars not showing any signs of growths on the 6th day thus far...i know it moves slow so im expecting it but the other jars are just moving along fine.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: JHOVA]
    #24485359 - 07/15/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

I looked at this hpoo tek you shared for cubes incl. PE. Just when I thought I had the hpoo thing solid (using rye berries for spawn), I see this tek, to confuse matters, has us put the hpoo and with verm into quart jars. Thing is, I need to stick to either one thing or the other. Too many teks out there. Hard to know at time which to go with.

Or is there some advantage to doing hpoo and verm inside the jars?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485391 - 07/15/17 03:16 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes I did.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24485396 - 07/15/17 03:19 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

This time don't rinse with cold water. The steam helps dry the outside of the rye.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24485461 - 07/15/17 03:39 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
Well I did follow RR's video (courtesy of Willy Myco) and boiled the grain for 10 minutes. Then PC'd the mix for 90 mins @ 15psi.

Where I may have fallen down, now that I think about it, was when I strained the grain into a colandar. I poured cold water onto the grain to cool it down. Remind me (and others) not to do that again (assuming that contributed to the cooking condition of the grain.



So, you boiled the grain for 10 min. Did you pre soak and if so how long? The cold water rinse would have minimal effect IMO.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24485472 - 07/15/17 03:45 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
I looked at this hpoo tek you shared for cubes incl. PE. Just when I thought I had the hpoo thing solid (using rye berries for spawn), I see this tek, to confuse matters, has us put the hpoo and with verm into quart jars. Thing is, I need to stick to either one thing or the other. Too many teks out there. Hard to know at time which to go with.

Or is there some advantage to doing hpoo and verm inside the jars?



Your shrooms will get the bulk of their nutrition from the grain you use for spawn. One reason why you want a proper spawn ratio. Hpoo works fine, but has a higher risk of contamination than CVG. Your pasteurization technique  needs to be spot on with Horse poop. You can grow monster shrooms and big grows with CVG.




These were all CVG grows....


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485476 - 07/15/17 03:46 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CapnZ said:
The cold water rinse would have minimal effect IMO.




Quote:

LotKid said:
The steam helps dry the outside of the rye.




Rinsing with cold water would increase the time it takes for the outside of the grains to dry. Rinsing with cold water and then not letting the grains properly dry would leave them too wet which is asking for bacillus or other bacteria.

When in doubt use the tissue test.


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Edited by LotKid (07/15/17 03:47 PM)

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485493 - 07/15/17 03:55 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

After I apply my casing I keep FAE low and no direct light until the casing is partially colonized. This also helps consolidate the myc which in my experience reduces or eliminates blobs.




I was struck by this step, which is usually not mentioned in standard teks.

So this is just a continuation of the colonization process except with the casing applied. You wait a couple of days after full colonization and let the mycelium consolidate, then apply your casing, then let that sit again until it's partially colonized before applying any light.

So you don't put your shoeboxes into the SGFC until all of this is done, correct?

So do you just keep the shoeboxes in a darkened area until you're ready for the SGFC?

Thing is, usu. we'd use tin foil to cover the boxes, but the shoeboxes have transparent lids incorporated into them. So what do you do? Do you cover them with some opaque material?

And when you say you keep FAE low, do I take it you mean just not fanning the substrate, keeping the boxes covered with whatever you cover them, right?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24485517 - 07/15/17 04:05 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:

So you don't put your shoeboxes into the SGFC until all of this is done, correct?




correct

Quote:

So do you just keep the shoeboxes in a darkened area until you're ready for the SGFC?




No. Ambient light is fine.

Quote:

Thing is, usu. we'd use tin foil to cover the boxes, but the shoeboxes have transparent lids incorporated into them. So what do you do? Do you cover them with some opaque material?




You can just keep them covered with the lid. Clear is fine.

Quote:

And when you say you keep FAE low, do I take it you mean just not fanning the substrate, keeping the boxes covered with whatever you cover them, right?




Yes keeping the lids on. Putting them in a SGFC with the lids off the shoeboxes ups the FAE. If you have enough FAE you don't need to fan. If you're using a SGFC, just put them in there and mist them when they start looking dry.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485546 - 07/15/17 04:15 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Quote:

CapnZ said:
The cold water rinse would have minimal effect IMO.




Quote:

LotKid said:
The steam helps dry the outside of the rye.




Rinsing with cold water would increase the time it takes for the outside of the grains to dry. Rinsing with cold water and then not letting the grains properly dry would leave them too wet which is asking for bacillus or other bacteria.

When in doubt use the tissue test.




You always use the paper towel test. Yeah a lot of variables there. I'm assuming he was drying properly which might not be the case.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24485548 - 07/15/17 04:17 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Keep the FAE low while colonizing. When I do shoe boxes I keep the lids on till the surface is 100% colonized.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24485557 - 07/15/17 04:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CapnZ said:
I'm assuming he was drying properly which might not be the case.




Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24485707 - 07/15/17 05:52 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Keep the lids on? No airholes?  It's just that I hear so many teks that use tinfoil and say to poke 4 or 5 holes in the foil for FAE.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485708 - 07/15/17 05:53 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks LotKid. That's great.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24485762 - 07/15/17 06:21 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

The lids don't make an air tight seal so there is still GE.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24485832 - 07/15/17 07:07 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I pre-soaked the grain for 24 hrs.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24485862 - 07/15/17 07:24 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

And I did use the tissue test, which told me I didn't have excess moisture. Still, I'm getting a fair amount of condensation in the jars, but then again, I don't have a temperature-controlled environment. Just taking advantage of the higher temps. I only do one or two grows a year.
What amazed me about the people on here is that they have so many grows under their belt. They must be all working at this full-time, supplying half of America.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24485874 - 07/15/17 07:30 PM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
Just taking advantage of the higher temps.




At what temp are your jars sitting while colonizing?


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24486388 - 07/16/17 12:44 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

It's around 70 plus up to 75 I'd say on average, when we don't have a heat wave, which happened the day after I inoculated when I got up to the mid-nineties.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24486557 - 07/16/17 03:14 AM (7 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
By the way, is there a reason you use oats? Is that because it's quicker, less boiling/requirements?Or does it matter which grain, unless a particular grain is unsuitable?




Most people use oats cause they are the cheapest high quality grain.


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24486759 - 07/16/17 07:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Galaxytripper said:
Keep the lids on? No airholes?  It's just that I hear so many teks that use tinfoil and say to poke 4 or 5 holes in the foil for FAE.



Correct. Like Lotkid said the lids are not completely air tight. It just allows CO2 levels to stay higher and keep evaporation to a minimum. Once fully colonized take the lids off and place in a SGFC or mono tub. I used a SGFC last time and it worked great....


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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24486852 - 07/16/17 09:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Oats, due to the hull, will inherently have less surface starch, which has many benefits.

Also when used as g2g, the hull acts like a shell for the colonized grain kernel. Recovery seems quicker imho.

Although my ultimate combo is to start with grass seed then g2g to Oats. Crazy easy to get perfect distribution where each kernel only has to colonize an inch or so in each direction.

Oats also have more staying power for multi flushes when using a low nutrient bulk sub like coir

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24486885 - 07/16/17 09:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Jars look wet when they come out of the PC, the moisture will re distribute threw the grain

Just started using oats, easy fast prep but they burst easy so you have to keep an eye on them

No one here supply's anyone but their friends, for free

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: CapnZ]
    #24487250 - 07/16/17 12:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So you're saying that this business (in the case of trays with tin foils)of poking holes is unnecessary? I thought the whole premise was that mycelium needs FAE while colonizing as well. Maybe I need to understand the mushroom life cycle better.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Bird_Guts]
    #24487261 - 07/16/17 12:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I must give oats a try.

Quote:

No one here supply's anyone but their friends, for free




(They must have lots of friends!)

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24487280 - 07/16/17 12:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

FAE is a fruiting trigger.

Gas exchange is all you need prior.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24487284 - 07/16/17 12:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oats, due to the hull, will inherently have less surface starch, which has many benefits




Interesting. What are the benefits of oats, then? Speed of colonization? Less likelihood of contamination?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24487301 - 07/16/17 12:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FAE is a fruiting trigger. Gas exchange is all you need prior.




So all that's necessary during colonization is for the CO2 to escape when it builds up? I though myc needed air during that stage.

I must say I've always found this distinction between gas exchange and FAE to be a bit nebulous. That is, if (let's say in your jars) you have a hole for "air exchange" what else is it exchanging except C02 for fresh air?

Or is this distinction really just one of degree?

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24487311 - 07/16/17 12:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Starch is sticky which can lead to clumping.

Plus it's an easy food source for any contams that survived. A lot harder for rivals to eat when all the surface area is non-nutritious.

Rarely are cultures and your sterilization 100% contam-free, so providing an optimal environment for your fungi, but not bacteria can tilt the odds in your favour.  Bacteria normally has the upper hand due to replication speed. Fungi has to mature in order to have good defenses

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24487332 - 07/16/17 12:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Gas exchange is because you need oxygen. Mycelium lives underground, so it won't get huge exchange normally.  When it gets to the surface and wants to reproduce, then mushrooms appear :smile:

It is sensing changes in ratios for humidity, temp and gas composition.  We are just trying to simulate such things

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz] * 1
    #24487343 - 07/16/17 12:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Cool. That's interesting. Thank you.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24487356 - 07/16/17 12:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You're welcome :toast:

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24487365 - 07/16/17 12:53 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

RE: oats
Quote:

A lot harder for rivals to eat when all the surface area is non-nutritious




So the oats aren't nutritious to the bacteria but they are to the mycelium? You've lost me there.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: LotKid]
    #24487396 - 07/16/17 01:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the current state o' me jars.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24487418 - 07/16/17 01:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Says I only have read-only rights and can't upload images. Hmm...

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #24487446 - 07/16/17 01:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Surface area = hull

Bacteria live in a 2D world where surface area = pretty well everything.

Mycelium can hunt inside to the kernel.

Comparatively, a bare grain kernel is just 100% food everywhere

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Snazz]
    #24488075 - 07/16/17 06:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting.

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Re: Penis Envy Teks? [Re: Galaxytripper]
    #27018917 - 11/03/20 08:44 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The prepped substrate you can get from shroomsupply works great for these, just an fyi. Easy peasy. Just need some patience...but once they pin, you're in like flynn.

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