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 jkz
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 Cedar mulch for oysters? 
#24478083 - 07/12/17 02:06 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey all.
I'm wondering if anyone has had success using cedar mulch as an oyster substrate, either as pure mulch or mixed with verm and/or cardboard/newspapers.
I have a ton of it, but read earlier that cedar contains natural anti fungals, but this is mulch and not just wood chips so I have no idea if this still applies.
So, should I leech the mulch before using it?
Should I mix it with cardboard/verm/newspaper/coir? A combo?
And should I pasteurize it, or sterilize It?
In this TEK, Eatyu uses his straight out of the bag, but it's Scott's mulch, not cedar so I'm sure somethings will be different.
I guess I should mention I'm working with gold oysters and plan to fruit in a bucket.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Edited by jkz (07/12/17 03:06 PM)
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 Quadman
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 Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24478291 - 07/12/17 03:44 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do not use .Like you said anti fungal properties. There is a reason cedar is prized for ground contact.
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Edited by Quadman (07/12/17 03:45 PM)
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Quadman]
#24478302 - 07/12/17 03:48 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well damn.
Guess it'll be used for my cacti.
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Ferather
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 Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24478362 - 07/12/17 04:10 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cedar has a pH of, 2.9 - 4.7, like pine you will need to add CaCO3 to neutralize the inhibitors and acids.
I suggest trying only a small amount if possible, modify it to pH 7-8 (oysters), and try it.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24478396 - 07/12/17 04:24 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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The easiest way to do it, which is what I do with pine, is measure your water for hydration, add lime to pH 9-10, roughly.
Now you simply hydrate your wood pellets with the water, and you keep the broken down materials.
No fuss, no bathing or long soak periods, simply measure with pH strips.
About 8-12g of CaCO3 to 100g of water, for a weight guide.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24478459 - 07/12/17 04:57 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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This helps so much.
You're the man!
Now, I need to find ph strips lol
Lime should be pretty easy to get.
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vatman
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24478575 - 07/12/17 05:42 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have a post in regards to fermnation of softwood and also helps with oils inside the wood that might still be there.
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Quadman
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24478660 - 07/12/17 06:13 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have never seen a recommendation to use cedar to grow mushrooms on . pH or not. I'm talking Western red cedar , white cedar is same family as Western red ( thuja)and eastern red cedar( juniper) I just trashed a eastern red cedar picnic table that sat outside for 30 years with no paint or sealer. The heartwood protected can last up to a 100 years.Your going to have a long compost session to try to break it down.
Vatman may have a possible solution. The best is find different substrate.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Quadman]
#24479762 - 07/13/17 08:15 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm going to pick up a bunch of stuff tomorrow, for cacti and other mushroom species.
I'll probably just get some better mulch as well.
Just gotta avoid the cedar. Good to know.
Any other subs you guys would recommend?
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24479822 - 07/13/17 08:49 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm going to try pH modified cedar at some point, and see if I can make it work.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24480363 - 07/13/17 01:58 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ya know what? Since I have a ton of this mulch, and enough GO spawn/plates to make more spawn, I'm going to try it as well.
I'll add some lime water to the mulch to bring it to field capacity, I'm also going to add newspaper and cardboard and verm and some gypsum, then sterilize it in jars in the PC before spawning to a bucket.
Worst thing that happens, I have to make more spawn.
Worth a try!
I'll also run them on a substrate made of coir, verm, newspaper and cardboard and see how that works. Since I have two jars that were shook today, and will be ready to spawn in a week or so.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24480405 - 07/13/17 02:16 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Since you are happy to experiment with it, I can help if you like. Your data will be very informative regardless of the result.
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First you will need to test the mulches holding capacity, we will use 10g samples (cheap and easy).
Using my water guide (see my signature), start with 80% water and reduce to suit.
Measure everything by weight, and take note of the water value.
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Now you have the water value, you will need to test various amounts of CaCO3 added to hot water, and test the end result.
When the mulch pH (once cooled) meets the required value (for oysters about pH 7-8), note the amount added.
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You have now established both water content and amount of CaCO3 needed for your mulch.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24480414 - 07/13/17 02:19 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks dude!
I love experimenting, if I succeed or fail miserably, it's information that can be used.
I get paid tomorrow, so I'll be picking up some CaCO3 then (I assume gardening lime will do the trick?)
I'm going to need to order ph strips tho, since I live in a tiny farm town, I doubt anywhere here will carry them.
I'll continue to update this thread as I go.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24480423 - 07/13/17 02:25 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Gardening lime is another name, annoyingly there are many names and sources for CaCO3.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24480437 - 07/13/17 02:35 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah it's stupid, but if I ask the person working their for pure CaCO3 I'm sure they'll hook me up.
Lots of gardening stores here. I know the farmers here use lime in their fields for something or another.
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Quadman
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24480499 - 07/13/17 02:58 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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pH test strips. In swimming pool supplies.
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Quadman]
#24480509 - 07/13/17 03:02 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Keep in mind that you can grow oysters on the cardboard and paper waste as well. Seems like you have access to that and its easy to work with.
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jkz
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Quote:
Quadman said:
pH test strips. In swimming pool supplies.
There ya go! That'll work. That's dude!
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
Keep in mind that you can grow oysters on the cardboard and paper waste as well. Seems like you have access to that and its easy to work with.
I have access to tons of it. I work at a fast food restaurant and I take all the cardboard egg cartons and anything else I want from their that's just going to be disposed of anyway.
And newspapers are free, delivered to the apartment building every day. I've been saving them for his purpose exactly.
I just feel as tho I'll need to add something other then cardboard and paper, or I'm going to need a fucking load of it for my buckets. Also, I have no idea if paper waste needs to be pasteurized/sterilized.
This is what happens when a cube grower branches out and tries to grow his own food lol
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Ferather
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He's right though, unless the cedar is cheap, not going to be worth it, especially if you need to modify it.
However if you are getting it silly cheap or for free, it's worth investigating on making it work.
Just don't waste your time with large amounts, 10g in a petri dish and one grain.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24480555 - 07/13/17 03:24 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
He's right though, unless the cedar is cheap, not going to be worth it, especially if you need to modify it.
However if you are getting it silly cheap or for free, it's worth investigating on making it work.
Just don't waste your time with large amounts, 10g in a petri dish and one grain.
Completely agree. I won't buy any more, but I can't justify tossing 60L of it cuz I can't grow oysters on it. And I got that bag for 2.99 and tax so, dirt cheap.
I'm going to use some of it in my cacti pots eventually.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24480573 - 07/13/17 03:31 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Consider yourself community informed. Good luck with your trials.
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24480604 - 07/13/17 03:40 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I rip up cardboard and put it in a 5 gallon bucket. Then submerge it all in boiling water. Works just fine for me consistently. I do go with a relatively high spawn ratio for oysters though. Typically about 1:4 sometimes less if I'm running short.
Add some gypsum if you have it. Corrugated cardboard compresses significantly when its wet, plan about 2 buckets of dry cardboard for 1 bucket of hydrated substrate.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/upload.php?action=viewthumb&folder=Various+Oysters
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jkz
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Quote:
Ferather said:
Consider yourself community informed. Good luck with your trials.
Thanks! I've got a ton of GO myc, might as well try some stuff.
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
I rip up cardboard and put it in a 5 gallon bucket. Then submerge it all in boiling water. Works just fine for me consistently. I do go with a relatively high spawn ratio for oysters though. Typically about 1:4 sometimes less if I'm running short.
Add some gypsum if you have it. Corrugated cardboard compresses significantly when its wet, plan about 2 buckets of dry cardboard for 1 bucket of hydrated substrate.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/upload.php?action=viewthumb&folder=Various+Oysters
This is perfect.
I've got a feeling I'm going to end up with more oysters then I'll ever eat lol
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TravelAgency
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24481194 - 07/13/17 07:39 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
jkz said:
This is what happens when a cube grower branches out and tries to grow his own food lol
Very cool! I made the switch about 2.5 years ago and couldn't be happier- that decision has led me to the realization that I want to start my own mushroom farm and cultivate full time. It was a big learning curve as GMM are more varied and demanding but it opened the door to so much new and exciting knowledge and the experience has been wonderful. I actually have a standing offer for people making the switch of some cultures. Take a look at my trade list in my journal and shoot me a  if you want anything!
As far as substrates go- if you live in a rural area you might be able to get Pine Pellet Horse Bedding which I have proven in my side by sides (you can see the Bratslavian Trial here) to be just as effective if not better than Hardwood for oysters. I get them for about $3 for 50lbs.
I look forward to seeing your progress!
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jkz
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I ed you and read that post.
Awesome shit dude!
Now I wanna try pine pellets haha
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24482458 - 07/14/17 10:21 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pine pellets are so cheap and easy to get, even kitty litter wood pellets are £3 for 8kg.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24482465 - 07/14/17 10:24 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm going shopping shortly, gonna see what I can find.
Kitty litter wood pellets? I don't think I've ever seen that honestly. Worth a look tho.
I might check out the pet store for some shavings as well, since I need to grab some coir anyways.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24482466 - 07/14/17 10:26 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I can get this from my local general store. As normal mod the pH to desired levels.
"Highly absorbent" - "Biodegradable" - "Recycled"
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24482488 - 07/14/17 10:35 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude, I might just get some of that for my cat lol
She's a stinky ass, and hates the feel of the normal litter on her feet.
Modding ph is my only issue right now. mostly cuz my setup is for actives.
Could I mod the ph with the soak water?
I don't have bags or a flow hood, so I rely on spawning in open air to fully colonized grains.
Would this stuff need to be sterilized or pasteurized? If pasteurization is all that's needed, I can do that in a bucket and should be able to spawn it in open air, correct?
I think I'm getting modding of ph mixed up with supplementing tho tbh.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24482518 - 07/14/17 10:47 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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100% wood "can" be assembled open air, plenty of videos on that, and requires just pasteurization.
Adding grain enrichment (bran, flour, and so on) will need fully aseptic conditions.
TravelAgency got plenty of fruits from no pH modification, can be done.
Use the cedar test guide I gave you to mod the pH of the pine.
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TravelAgency
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24482821 - 07/14/17 01:24 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said:
100% wood "can" be assembled open air, plenty of videos on that, and requires just pasteurization.
Adding grain enrichment (bran, flour, and so on) will need fully aseptic conditions.
TravelAgency got plenty of fruits from no pH modification, can be done.
Use the cedar test guide I gave you to mod the pH of the pine.
Yep, I just toss a little gypsum and have gotten good fruits so far. I will be doing Side by sides soon to see the efficacy of oyster shell. But yeah if you are doing straight wood/paper/cardboard you can pasteurize and spawn in open air. I would highly recommend getting bags. They are a pain in the ass to use in an SAB but for Grain to Grain they are amazing. I currently do 1 jar to 2 6lbs bags- 1 bag to 8 sawdust bags.
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jkz
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Awesome. I just got some hardwood fuel pellets, and the pine kitty litter ones. I'm going to do just that, wood, paper and cardboard. Seems to be a good way to start.
I'm going to get some bags eventually, it's just money is real tight right now and I spent more then I should have today lol but I'm stocked up for quite a while.
Couldn't get my hands on any lime today, and I had to order in gypsum. I only have a little gypsum left, and I'm probably going to use it when I prep grain tonight so.
I have a lot more confidence now cuz of you guys <3
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24483595 - 07/14/17 06:59 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you haven't worked with wood pellets before, go slow when you start. Those things expand a lot.
I had the idea recently of doing some Reishi bottles, with the sub prepped in the bottle. I used 1 cup dry pellets expecting them to double in size. That didnt work as exoected. Have you ever seen a snowcone of hydrated sawdust before?
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jkz
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Lol that's crazy!
I'm going to follow I believe is lipas tek for them. And I'll probably hydrate them in a bucket like I do with everything else.
Good to know tho!
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24484484 - 07/15/17 05:53 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Lipa tek, is perfect for beginners with pellets. A warning about gypsum though, here.
Gypsum will not neutralize any acids, or balance pH, it's more of an issue.
CaCO3 (Calcium carbonate), not CaSO4 (Calcium sulfate).
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather] 1
#24486912 - 07/16/17 09:48 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's what I'm going to follow!
Going to give it a good read here now that I'm off work.
And I use gypsum to make it easier to shake jars. That's about it.
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TravelAgency
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24486928 - 07/16/17 09:56 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I got in the habit of adding small amounts of gypsum back in my cube days and just haven't broken the habit yet. Really need to run some side by sides on that to see if I'm just wasting money now. The list of experiments just keeps getting longer 
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Ferather
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Well it's ok for plants, as they intake CO2, whereas mycelium will expel CO2, thus creating sulfuric acid.
It's good for grit, for sure, and will add sulfur, however sulfur is not on the "need" to add list.
The choice at the end of the day is yours, just be aware of the sulfur issue.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather] 1
#24486979 - 07/16/17 10:16 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Agreed!
I literally add very little to anything I use. It's expensive, but really helps with grain for cubes. Mostly why I use it. I still grow dem cubes haha
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TravelAgency
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz] 1
#24487025 - 07/16/17 10:42 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have an apprentice who just got their first fruits- a couple of cakes thrown in an SGFC. I had given them all my old half pint jars, monotubs (except two I kept for Reishi), spore syringes, perilite, vermiculite, SGFCs, and SAB, as well as soaked and sterilized grain for them and gave them some Lion's Mane grain spawn. They've been just like I was when I first started cultivating- ever excited and nervous simultaneously- so they've had me check on their progress frequently. I forgot how fascinating cubes were to watch grow - after redirecting my efforts and research for 2.5 years I forgot the subtleties to the fruits and how you can observe some of them actually wiggling larger. Don't blame you at all for continuing to cultivate those majestic mushrooms- hell they are the only reason I developed such a passion for cultivating- I just have decided I want to make a living off of cultivating mushrooms, and really, really, REALLY wanted to be able to talk to people about that which I was so passionate about, as well as realizing that the process was more rewarding than the experience (granted after having those experiences over 200 times) so therefore decided it was time to go legit and come out of the closet as it were.
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Ferather
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jkz
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That's cool man!
I grow them, and have no idea what to do with them lol my lady and I don't trip a whole lot, and I refuse to sell them. That's when it gets sketchy and you get in trouble. I've been giving some to a few friends, just to get them outta the house haha.
Honestly, I just love growing things.
One day I'd love to be able to do this for a living too honestly.
My boss already wants to buy my Gold Oysters off me, since his wife is really into homegrown foods and such.
I'm gonna get into the farmers markets I think, just for some extra cash and so I never had mushies expire. Since I'm gonna go hard on these oysters now haha
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24487036 - 07/16/17 10:50 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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I love the branched oyster varieties, they are nutritional, medicinal and easy to grow.
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jkz
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24487042 - 07/16/17 10:53 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Had no Idea they were medicinal.
I just like the taste of them haha
I wanna try King again, but it's so hot here they hate it.
I have LM and Sheemji on grain, but they're either super slow colonizers, or I'm super unlucky.
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Ferather
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24487055 - 07/16/17 10:58 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oysters are both gourmet and medicinal, a food that really helps you, see here.
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TravelAgency
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz] 1
#24487097 - 07/16/17 11:15 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah I am trying to start to hit the local Farmer's Market here soon. We actually have a really good one here. There is "competition" but they are my good friends- they have helped me out a lot- so I figured I'd just coordinate with them which species/strains to cultivate so we never directly compete. I'm just so limited by space and time I've had to back up my launch date by months- but I really want to come out swinging. I'm also super interested in the Medicinal qualities of many mushrooms. I have heard amazing anecdotal evedince from users and general population as well as Paul Stamet's Mother's Story as to the unbelievable possibilities of these glorious creatures- plus I have a few friends who could use some new hope right about now.... I have a ton of TurkeyTail going now that I'm going to make triple extractions of- and have three species of Ganoderma waiting in the wings as well as Cordyceps militaris master jars that just got to 100% (I'm extra interested in these for my ow personal health as I have chronic fatigue and these are supposed to be great for energy and I just quit a 2 large Monster Energy Drink a day minimum habit so I'm dying for something).
I have a very strained relationship with "God" or whatever you want to call "it" - religion horrified me but I think it comes from a good place- a step in Man's evolution- but cubensis brought me closer in an odd way and I always thought "God" - even at my most atheistic point- put them there for Man to better understand "Him" (Ug I hate gendering a being supposedly so grate that they created all realities in existence and infinite and eternal but still has the need for genitalia)- but when I did more research into the Fungal Kingdom, it's history, it's interaction with Man, it's potentially life saving Medicinal benefits that could end up on an immense scale - the more I saw Fungi as a crucial part of what we call "God". I firmly believe that life on Earth originated from extraterrestrial spores (based on the history of life on this planet not on faith) - I believe in the Stoned Ape Theory - I believe for every ailment this planet naturally will have a solution and I bet most of it will lie in Fungi- I truly think that mushrooms can cure cancer - I truly believe that mushrooms can extend the average mortality by 50 years - I truly believe that perhaps at the beginning of our universe, the Big Bang, in that collection of energy that exploded outward, that spores were present, and that their eternal purpose was to shoot through space until every planet with the capability of supporting life is reach, colonized, and terraformed, setting off the evolution of all of life in our entire universe. And we are barely getting started understanding them.
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jkz
Padawan
Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 1,910
Loc: Coruscant
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: Ferather]
#24487099 - 07/16/17 11:16 AM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow.
That's amazing. The pinks are gorgeous, I need that in my life.
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jkz
Padawan
Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 1,910
Loc: Coruscant
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24487382 - 07/16/17 01:01 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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So, hardwood pellets expand super quick haha
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jkz
Padawan
Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 1,910
Loc: Coruscant
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24489486 - 07/17/17 01:04 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do I tape the holes on the bucket for colonization?
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jkz
Padawan
Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 1,910
Loc: Coruscant
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24543670 - 08/10/17 12:22 PM (6 years, 8 months ago) |
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The bucket has been fully colonized for a while now.
Dunked it Tuesday for 14.5 hours and wrapped it in cling wrap after I took it outta the dunk. Proceeded to make tiny X's in the cling wrap where the holes are.
Am I expecting pinning to soon?
I'm misting the plastic cuts a few times a day to try to maintain moisture.
It's getting ample light.
Should I put it outside and let nature take care of it? Or wait a bit longer and see what happens with it inside.
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jkz
Padawan
Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 1,910
Loc: Coruscant
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz] 1
#24595510 - 09/01/17 09:20 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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So, my oysters fruited lol
Left them on the balcony and woke up to this. Stoked 
It's been getting really cold over night lately and I'm guessing that's what caused it.
They look like blues to me.
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"
Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Cedar mulch for oysters? [Re: jkz]
#24597382 - 09/02/17 01:32 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Woah! Great looking fruits mate! Egads their beautiful! Good job!
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Ferather
Mycological
Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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