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 Dreamfarer
rover
Registered: 08/21/16
Posts: 27
Loc: WA, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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 How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? 
#24468340 - 07/08/17 06:29 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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like,
when I've had a long day of free diving into my within and without,
and a heavy part of me just wants to sit down and watch clips from The Court Jester,
is that something that, now that I'm on the trail, I should muscle through?
mostly just a question of "if this is a thing that can happen, then... well, what happens?"
--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.
https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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 Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Dreamfarer]
#24468383 - 07/08/17 06:55 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've dealt with this extensively, even when I was a teen (14-15) I would spend 2-3 days alone in the forest on long hikes, and I often found myself with those weird feelings of cultural withdrawl, and an intense loneliness from lack of human interaction, I always managed to push it out of my mind and kept going but it was often an overpowering experience.
It can all be boiled down to one word, attachment.
Attachment is like wearing chains, it's very similar to slavery. A slave to your own attachments you are.
Luckily these attachments are just thoughts and can be let go of.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Dreamfarer
rover
Registered: 08/21/16
Posts: 27
Loc: WA, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Tmethyl]
#24468440 - 07/08/17 07:20 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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1. thanks for the speedy read and speedier reply!
2. from what you write, I picture that you're suggesting that culture withdrawal is really a rough equivalent to community withdrawal?
and is fo, or if so, then what does that mean for attachments? is this the internal struggle between a complete release of attachments and all the comforting, silken shadowshackles that keep us hooked to the detritus of the fall-away past and the pull of the ever-farther-flinging future?
what is the attachment to, is what I think my question is?
--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.
https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Dreamfarer]
#24468448 - 07/08/17 07:27 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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The human is a social animal, there are instinctual attachments that come with that.
What are the attachments to? What happens when you're watching "The Court Jester"?
Perhaps some relaxation, but more importantly distraction. Distraction from your stress, your problems, your depression perhaps.
Watching T.V/Movies/Internet are exactly like a drug, a temporary relief, your brain becomes very attached to them.
A few beers or a few puffs of weed may bring you the exact same kind of relief a T.V show might, and they are both chemical distractions from your problems, they are a type of running away.
In fact I believe it was Terence McKenna who stated "The only difference between drugs and computers is that one of them is to big to swallow.".
You are fighting your attachments because you are harboring something else, something like depression or being unfulfilled, a feeling of something lacking.
I'm not claiming to be a psychologist, this all becomes obvious when you're far enough away from it all, it's the clarity that some distance can bring.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Dreamfarer
rover
Registered: 08/21/16
Posts: 27
Loc: WA, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Tmethyl]
#24468474 - 07/08/17 07:42 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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merci, my voice in the wilderness
and received with thanks
--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.
https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword
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Dreamfarer
rover
Registered: 08/21/16
Posts: 27
Loc: WA, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Dreamfarer]
#24468481 - 07/08/17 07:46 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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"You are fighting your attachments because you are harboring something else, something like depression or being unfulfilled, a feeling of something lacking."
is the line that sticks out to me
reflects very much something i've been asking myself lately
something along the lines of "why am I looking so hard for something?"
Every question I ask ultimately boils back and down to “Why am I asking.”
I find it an interesting question. Am feeling it out.
--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.
https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Dreamfarer]
#24468506 - 07/08/17 07:57 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well you've made it further than most just by asking yourself these things.
Do you know how many people just go with the demands of culture until they die?
Never questioning the most basic assumptions of their own minds.
Keep in mind that seeking is a sort of enemy to finding.
In a way, you are knocking from the inside. Be sure that your happiness isn't resting on the future, never tell yourself:
"once this thing happens then I'll feel better" or "after I do this, I will be happy" the future does not exist, it's a continuation of the present moment.
If you cannot make peace with the present moment, no matter what it entails, you can very easily go your entire life seeking and never finding.
Most do.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh
Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,655
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Tmethyl]
#24469283 - 07/09/17 03:53 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'd say it's like bleeding from the vag
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R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
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That Kid With The face
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split_by_nine
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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many 
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 laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#24469294 - 07/09/17 04:05 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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'cultural withdrawal'?
I don't think so
after all your dialoguing on the internet
I think what your doing is 'worrying'
many folks go back and forth between solitude and the company of society quite easily
its your thoughts that are causing the 'problem'
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,170
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: laughingdog]
#24469442 - 07/09/17 07:09 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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When discussing attachments - unless you have evidence produced by an attachment viewer - some way of measuring the force of each linkage - and some way of resolving the effect that each linkage can produce - every comment about 'attachment' becomes too generalized - and the very meaning of "attachment" becomes distorted to match one or two thin examples or definitions.
In my definition, attachment is fundamental to memory, all the linkages are personal history, including those that concern "cultural" experiences and influences, as well as those that concern "family" and "self" etc. It is all very mixed, and any withdrawal needs to be a withdrawal from all (like a meditation "retreat" is supposed to be) influences (memory triggers).
Attachment then to material abundance (as 'attachment' is normally illustrated - and often extrapolated to 'materialism' and 'hoarding' or 'greed'), is really about all your ideas that connect to that sphere of involvement.
But, that type of thinking and examination is quickly upended by how many memories and ideas are linked to 'involvement with material abundance' which actually deal with other topics besides 'avarice' or 'lust' or even just 'having enough' such as 'rationing' etc. while under siege or when you need a job!
In the popular and simplified legends of the Buddha, as with much mythology from the east, 'attachment' is demonized and while it may help to portray a benefit in morality (for generosity specifically) it clouds understanding of what is really at play, which is mind, and it's fundamental way of managing memory and learning.
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 _  🧠 _ 
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: redgreenvines]
#24470315 - 07/09/17 02:26 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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'attachment' is just one aspect, or view point, or yardstick
(its not a concept we need to be attached to ! ! ! )
another view point, is the term 'the doer' or perhaps 'doership'
which is denied in Advaita vedanta or nondual view, as well as in Buddhism;
if all action in the field of phenomena is due to prior causes
then all must be as the heart sutra says:
neither attainment nor nonattainment
as there can be no separate inviolate autonomous essences anywhere
whether or not, we say in modern terms; matter is energy
or 'its all fractal', or 'quantum spooky action at a distance'
it seems it was all anticipated by the ancient terms:
emptiness, void, impermanence, or
all manifest phenomenon are composite and without an intrinsic self
on the one hand this view seems harsh
on the other hand it is very freeing
as
the universe is seen to be endlessly spontaneous
and guilt becomes irrelevant
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Dreamfarer
rover
Registered: 08/21/16
Posts: 27
Loc: WA, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: laughingdog]
#24474792 - 07/11/17 09:43 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks again to all..
Was digging back in my notes, found this:
If you spend all your time trying to know, then all you’re ever doing is trying to know and there’s nothing growing for you to know. And you become trapped in trying to know mind, when there’s nothing to know.
You know?
If you keep trying to capture, to hold on to the appreciation of a moment, then not only have you missed the experience but the moment is gone just like this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this and this one and this one and this one and so on and on and on and on andonandonandonandonandonandonand...
Which is hardly new news. But there's that old parable in Judaism that says an angel visits us in the womb, teaches us the entire Torah, and then puts a finger to out lips and makes us forget.
"The question at the heart of the quest is to renew our power of vision." Which strikes me as a matter of 1. de-clouding what obscures said inherent capability of vision and 2. welcoming and encouraging it through our actions, allies, journeys, challenges, and felt experiences, as these all can lead to shifts in our own perspective - and thereby revealing the wisdom, potential, confidence, courage, and connectivity already alive within.
AH! But going back and re-reading some of the comments above, it strikes me that perhaps I'm confusing - or at least correlating - "attachment" with addiction, and judging addiction as an ultimately unconscious need for something. Which is to say, perhaps one of the many places to which it all boils down is the question of unconscious vs conscious living. Conscious as one can be amidst any set of given life circumstances...
--------------------
art and psychedelics help
they don't just “let you” have an experience.
they help you have your own experience.
https://alejoleo.wixsite.com/thespokenword
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Deadfrancis
I am you
Registered: 03/18/17
Posts: 690
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Dreamfarer]
#24477023 - 07/12/17 02:02 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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there is only one experience and if we do not seek the truth then we will be doomed to a life of confusion, dark days, and illusionary separations of time and space, and also death, which none of the three exist, we are all instances of the same life, we we're just born a little while ago, and we're practically standing next to each other, it's not two places there is only the universe, that is our location.
We only crave new experiences and want more out of life because we believe that there is something better and/or that we need to hurry up and do all the great things before we die so that we are fulfilled when we do die. It is such a conditioned way to live, and few people are willing to pay any attention to the Bible because we don't like the idea of a controlling God, which doesnt exist, but the nature of sin is real, only it isn't wrong or evil or bad, it's perceptual, we have to abandon reality to sin, and reality is disguised as God. No one wants to listen to anything about sin because we automatically assume that it's going to be about how if we don't turn to God we go to hell.
All paths of knowledge lead here. The truth is a place, and there are beings here that want to keep us away from it with as much deception as possible, because fear makes them money and keeps us loyal to the enslavement
Edited by Deadfrancis (07/12/17 04:27 AM)
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viktor
psychotechnician
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Re: How would you qualify the experience of culture withdrawal? [Re: Dreamfarer]
#24477218 - 07/12/17 04:29 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Probably little different to withdrawal from any other drug/habituation.
I walked for about 45-50 hours by myself once in Northern Scandinavia one summer. That was very interesting as I didn't see another person this whole time, and when I did see one it was kind of like seeing a large domestic animal, like a highly intelligent pet pig or similar.
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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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