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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Suffering for Others
    #2446500 - 03/18/04 10:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

According to many spiritual people (Jesus, Ghandi, etc), the act of suffering for the benefit of other people is supposed to be spiritually rewarding.

I dont get this. I have suffered a lot for other people. And it hasnt gotten me any closer to God. If anything, it has driven me further away from him. Because I have done the right thing in the face of pain and never recieved any reward, spiritual or otherwise. Sacrificing myself for others has seriously hampered my faith. In God, in humanity, and in myself.

So many trimes I take bullets of pain for others, and it has left me a twisted wreck of a person. Emotionally scarred, paranoid, neurotic, and closed off. That is what suffering for others has left me. There has been no revelation, no light at the end of the tunnel. There has been no enlightenment. There is only me, feeling ripped off and cheated for all the good deeds I've done which have come at a great personal price, and have been largely unappreciated.

why is it that the more I try to be a godly person, the more I lose faith in God?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446505 - 03/18/04 10:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You are not pure in your suffering. You do it for reward. It must be it's own reward.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2446524 - 03/18/04 10:58 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I dont expect a reward. Its not like I read a bunch of books about enlightenment and said to myself one day: "I'm going to suffer for others so I can get rewarded spiritually!"

I've just always been like this. I am an empath and I literally feel other people's pain. It pains me when something is not right in the world, and often I take on burdens that I shouldnt for the sole purpose of "doing the right thing". Its just in my nature.

But, after the fact, I go out and read books and hear people say things like: "Suffering brings you closer to God, man." And I just dont agree. The most faithful times in my life have been times when I wasnt in pain. All the periods in my life where I have suffered heavily have been marked by bouts of nihilism and despair.

And ultimately, I dont think my suffering has really helped anyone. Its like giving a crackhead money. He's just gonna go spend it on more crack and come back. Suffering for others is not teaching them how to fish, you know?

Its not like I do the right thing and get let down when there is no reward. I get let down because doing the right thing at my personal expense doesnt seem to help much. It just hurts me without getting anything done.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446571 - 03/18/04 11:20 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The reward you are looking for could be the feeling that you are closer to god. You're not getting it so you are mad. Suffering is it's own reward


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2446589 - 03/18/04 11:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

suffering isnt a reward. suffering is pain. its punishment.

and I dont even want a personal reward. I just want to see the right things done. but it seems all in vain.

Its not that I suffer and dont get a reward, its that I suffer and no one gets a reward.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446596 - 03/18/04 11:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I bet your sign is a Cancer.  :grin:

In all seriousness, I believe in the "If you don't suffer you won't get ahead" sorta thing in the sense that making sacrifices is an essential key to success.  And furthermore..I take it you believe in reincarnation, yes? Did it ever occur to you that you chose to undertake the trials and tribulations (suffering) in this lifetime to learn and evolve more (success),? See this is the funny thing about life...the easier your life is, the less likely you truly learn. How can you learn from experiences that you don't experience? People learn from their mistakes, people learn from negativity, people learn from pain, people learn and evolve from all of the above. Problems are essentially your teachers, they help you learn and grow. Without them, you would be going nowhere..With them you're truly moving forward in your goals and evolving.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446626 - 03/18/04 11:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Its just in my nature.

See thread on Free Will...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446678 - 03/18/04 12:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If everyone in the world thought of others instead of themselves...then what pain would one have to endure by himself? Live life yourself so that others may understand why life is so precious.

Leading by example is the most powerful and most passionate method of teaching because it takes time and understanding. The love you give to others will ultimately come around full circle, I promise.

You already know what you believe, living it is a completely different story; and that takes true guts and remarkable vision.

Peace.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Offlinepeleg
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: psyka]
    #2446741 - 03/18/04 12:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

We all have our own cross to bear, it's by faith that it gets lighter and lighter, or lack of faith that it get heaver, ya know.....Christ says to cast your cares and burdens upon Him for His load is light, and He is easy in His ways...not to let your heart be troubled trust in Christ and also in God :grin:


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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2446757 - 03/18/04 12:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bet your sign is a Cancer.





No, actually I'm a pisces. a pretty typical one too, from what I've heard. But cancers and I are very similar. theyre both water signs.

Quote:

And furthermore..I take it you believe in reincarnation, yes? Did it ever occur to you that you chose to undertake the trials and tribulations (suffering) in this lifetime to learn and evolve more (success),?




actually that has occured to me. pisces are supposed to be living their last lives on earth. I dont know if thats true, but this life sure does feel a lot like the last level of Space Invaders... everything is coming down at once and I have to deal with it all... its like the ultimate test.

Quote:

See this is the funny thing about life...the easier your life is, the less likely you truly learn. How can you learn from experiences that you don't experience? People learn from their mistakes, people learn from negativity, people learn from pain, people learn and evolve from all of the above. Problems are essentially your teachers, they help you learn and grow. Without them, you would be going nowhere..With them you're truly moving forward in your goals and evolving.





I think pain is teaching me the wrong lessons. I'm growing very tired of doing the right thing at great personal cost and watching evil triumph anyway...Its like the more I sacrifice, the more bitter and callous I become... doesn't seem very "close to God" to me... but maybe my understanding of God is just wrong...


--------------------
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Offlineergot
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446772 - 03/18/04 12:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Evil wins, good suffers. It's not a hard concept. Your perception to the situation needs to be altered... the life of good is not "rewarding," it is fulfilling. You will become a better person... and that is the ultimate reward.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: ergot]
    #2446829 - 03/18/04 01:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I fail to see how suffering is making me a better person.

Its seems to be filling me with pain and hate.

I mean, I understand the whole concept of putting pressure on a muscle and making it stronger. But I feel like I'm getting weaker, not stronger. It doesnt feel like building muscle, it feels like being scarred and disfigured.


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Offlinepeleg
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446839 - 03/18/04 01:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

feelings will lie to you


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2446849 - 03/18/04 01:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How do you generally deal with these problems? Do you have any certain technique or methodology?
How would you describe your dietary habits? Do you feel that you are giving your body the sufficient energy it needs from proper and balanced diet? Do you drink water in healthy amounts? Do you indulge in any health-damaging habits?
Do you excercise? Are you physically in adequate shape?
Do you have any close ties, romantic, platonic, or otherwise that you normally seek solace to during tough times of trials and tribulations?
Do you meditate?

I have many questions, but no answers.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2447074 - 03/18/04 02:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It pains me when something is not right in the world, and often I take on burdens that I shouldnt for the sole purpose of "doing the right thing". Its just in my nature.




Is it your nature or is this something you have incorporated into yourself as a result of experiences in life?
Do you realize that ultimately everything is always "as it should be"? In other words, the Tao is always preserving balance and although something may apppear to be out of order, it actually could not be any other way. I realize that it is hard to reconcile this understanding with the empathy that you feel for others who are suffering.
I feel the same as you in that I tend to spiral towards nihilism and fatalism when I am suffering heavily in life. I feel more connected to source when things are looking up, but things usually look up or down as a result of one's own choices. I guess we always have to examine our suffering -- most of it can be wiped away by simply realizing a)the inevitability of it and b)comparing it to the suffering of others and realizing that we all experience it to differing degrees in different areas of ourlife.


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2447097 - 03/18/04 02:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Read some Nietzsche, he?ll remedy your ascetic complex.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2447121 - 03/18/04 02:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Nietzsche tends to make it worse. I swore that shit off cuz its just too depressing.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2447318 - 03/18/04 03:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Alright man, let's see here..

I've mentioned to you before in threads that you think A LOT like me. One day (a frustrating day) I had a conversation with my dad. I told him pretty much everything you just said. I told him I try so hard to be a good person and to do the right thing all the time, and that it feels like I don't get a damn thing in return.

What he told me was that I was acting the role of a Christian without the support of god. Have you ever heard christians say "my cup is empty" or similar? Think about it.. if you choose to live a morally "right" life in the face of reality without "refilling the cup" spiritually, you will always feel empty and used.

I don't know if this information will help you, because I don't know whether or not it helped me yet. But it's just some food for thought.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2447337 - 03/18/04 03:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

No, you were acting the role of the martyr. A certain level of selfishness is required for most people's mental health. The purest love is self-love.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Suffering for Others [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2447368 - 03/18/04 03:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That didn't make that much sense to me, sorry.. are you trying to say that the reason I'm unhappy is because I don't love myself, and that by looking for "return" on my "investments" I am missing the issue?


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