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 mescalator
Stranger
Registered: 09/19/16
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 ANTIFA   2
#24443774 - 06/29/17 04:01 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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These guys are ironically the biggest fascists around. I've just been going through lots of vidoes of them getting owned by patriots, which is satsfying. They don't have any arguments and everyone who disagrees with their far left views is somehow a Nazi who is a worhty target for violence.
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
Edited by mescalator (06/29/17 04:03 AM)
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 Mad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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Quote:
mescalator said:
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
there are some pretty big retards on this site yeah
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF 
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"Don't touch me!!!"
Fog horn. Whistle.
"Don't touch me!!!"
Every YouTube video is the same. Get right in someone's face then cry foul if they touch you.
They come marching up in black pretending to be anarchists but every move they make rests on assault laws and not getting touched. Chickenshit suburban twats.
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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.
You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.
I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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I know there's at least 1 person who claims to actually be one of them, but I think there's a few others who support them.
ANTIFA videos make for some decent entertainment though because they're pretty much always just getting destroyed in arguments or getting their asses kicked for starting shit and then trying to either run away or hide. But I'm pretty disgusted at how ANTIFA is defended in the news though, like that one chick with the dreads who was throwing bottles at people and threatening them with wine bottle/M80 bombs who ended up getting punched in the face, the news said nothing about what she was doing to other people and never showed her FB posts admitting she was just going to stir shit up with people and she ended up getting probably over $100k in crowd funding for medical bills and trauma or some shit when she only got her face bruised up a little bit.
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djbluntmagic
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/15
Posts: 395
Last seen: 4 days, 10 hours
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ITT: Position of perfect ignorance
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
mescalator said:
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
There's plenty, they're the "enlightened" people that support Islam and every other culture that disagrees with true liberal Western values. 
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Mad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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Quote:
djbluntmagic said:
ITT: Position of perfect ignorance
t. passive aggressive person who can't defend his indefensible position
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ballsalsa 
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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 Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24444156 - 06/29/17 09:52 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
mescalator said:
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
There's plenty, they're the "enlightened" people that support Islam and every other culture that disagrees with true liberal Western values.
name names or keep your insinuations to yourself.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Herbologist
Grrratata
Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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The top Urban Dictionary definition:
Quote:
Antifa
Short for (militant) anti-fascists.
Middle-class champagne socialist/communist/anarchist white boys who don't like nationalists or fascists. They consider themselves to be rebelling against the establishment, whilst upholding all of its ultra-politically correct views.
Antifa only dislike racism when its carried out by whites, and do not have the bottle to stand up against anti-white racism; leading to many people on the right to refer to them as 'traitors'. I'd rather just call them morons.
Most are teenagers and university students who grow out of the fad when they start paying taxes.
Antifa is stupid.
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Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends! 
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
mescalator said:
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
There's plenty, they're the "enlightened" people that support Islam and every other culture that disagrees with true liberal Western values.
name names or keep your insinuations to yourself.
You also know who they are, I'm not here to call out specific members and digging through their posting history to satisfy your needs.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman] 1
#24444844 - 06/29/17 02:56 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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that's a chickenshit excuse.
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Mad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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you're a chickenshit excuse
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:
you're a chickenshit excuse
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Look at how physically inferior these people are. They're "training" to fight fascism, and want to open anti-fascist training gyms around the country
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,476
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 hours, 5 minutes
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the only one I have met was basically just an anarchist LARPer who associated with antifa out of convenience. but he did live in germany (I met him in spain where we were both traveling) and did talk about fascism being a real thing there against which it was necessary to organize and fight. but then he would just go to all sorts of riots even there in Barcelona and he didnt seem to know what they were about, he just liked to go fight with cops
I get the impression that for the overwhelming majority of them, the desire to go around and stir shit up is the #1 priority, and ideology is somewhere further down the list. but it's there.
I don't think they are fascists, though. that is a misappropriate, conflated use of the word.
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Mad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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the term LARPing sums it up
also the middle link in your sig is broken
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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He's probably like a lot of them then. A lot of them just seem like angry kids looking for a way to justify letting out their anger on other people. I mean, if you're really against fascism you're not gonna burn shit and attack people just for not having the same beliefs as you.
I got called a nazi by one once without me even saying a word to him, he just saw that I shave my head They're so lost.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 15 hours, 12 minutes
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Being violent against fascists makes YOU a fascist.
Just ask the Allied powers of WW2.
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schwarg
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 2,817
Loc: San Diego
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Quote:
Eminence said:
Look at how physically inferior these people are. They're "training" to fight fascism, and want to open anti-fascist training gyms around the country
Beta males gonna beta.
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Bubbles85
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,884
Loc: England 
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Antifa are a bunch of fucking pussy's. An inferior group of beta males, studying liberal arts and shit.
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Bubbles85
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,884
Loc: England
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: schwarg] 1
#24450046 - 07/01/17 04:02 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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A whole thread of people complaining about the Antifa.
Just tell me when the aggro starts so I can leave you all to it.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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schwarg
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 2,817
Loc: San Diego
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 1
#24450145 - 07/01/17 04:41 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
A whole thread of people complaining about the Antifa.
I'm sure if you look you'll find a plethora of "whole threads" about invisible Nazis.
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: schwarg] 2
#24450228 - 07/01/17 05:21 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Fuck fascists
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Being violent against fascists makes YOU a fascist.
Just ask the Allied powers of WW2.
Sounds like you're attempting to justify the violent actions of "ANTIFA" groups, is that the case?
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Fuck fascists
I agree, who are they today?
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24450405 - 07/01/17 06:33 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Fuck fascists
I agree, who are they today?
stop it please my sides
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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ANTIFA is a fascist ideology that's reactionary, just the same.
Edited by akira_akuma (08/31/17 12:54 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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WE CLEAR?
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Fuck fascists
I agree, who are they today?
stop it please my sides
Well you seem to have identified fascists, I'm just wondering in your opinion who they happen to be and why?
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JustATourist
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/15
Posts: 10
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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As far as I know "Antifa" is not a specific organisation, only very different people and groups that call themselves "anti-fascists".
Pretty much all antifa protestors in the US are just SJW anti-free speech silly kids.
Around the world other groups that call themselves "anti-fascists" don't seem to have anything to do with these people.
Here is a group calling themselves "anti-fascists" who fought and won against an ISIS group in Syria:
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24450468 - 07/01/17 07:09 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Fuck fascists
I agree, who are they today?
stop it please my sides
Well you seem to have identified fascists, I'm just wondering in your opinion who they happen to be and why?
Look man if your going to play dumb I won't bite.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Cyrus19] 2
#24450508 - 07/01/17 07:40 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Fuck fascists
I agree, who are they today?
stop it please my sides
Well you seem to have identified fascists, I'm just wondering in your opinion who they happen to be and why?
Look man if your going to play dumb I won't bite.
Who's playing dumb, it's a sincere question.
If you want to make a bunch of generalizations without any meaning or substance to it, why waste the time?
If you have something to say just say it, why the apprehension?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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jesus christ if there is one thing i can't fucking stand it's (nope!) when someone fucking blocks my freedom of movement.
 HULK MAD, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24450553 - 07/01/17 07:59 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everyone knows who fascists are, they are anyone who voted for trump, silly. Right cyrus?
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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dude he's christian. just chill.
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Everyone knows who fascists are, they are anyone who voted for trump, silly. Right cyrus?
Well we know Trump voters are deplorable and irredeemable. 
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Everyone knows who fascists are, they are anyone who voted for trump, silly. Right cyrus?
I wouldn't say that many trump supporters are misinformed working class voters who mistankingly assumed Trump would help them. I would say the real fascists are stormfront types alt right youtube personalities.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Or they were informed well enough to know the hill-billy was no good and took a chance on the trumpster. I'm already disillusioned but would not take the nasty bitch if I could do it over again.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Or they were informed well enough to know the hill-billy was no good and took a chance on the trumpster. I'm already disillusioned but would not take the nasty bitch if I could do it over again.
You are right Hillary was not working for the working class. As I have said before on here the US has two right wing parties the far right republicans and the center right democrats. Americans deserve a real choice not just two right wing parties.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 15 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman] 4
#24450598 - 07/01/17 08:15 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Being violent against fascists makes YOU a fascist.
Just ask the Allied powers of WW2.
Sounds like you're attempting to justify the violent actions of "ANTIFA" groups, is that the case?
No im just ridiculing the idiots who equivocate them with fascists.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman] 1
#24450604 - 07/01/17 08:16 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
mescalator said:
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
There's plenty, they're the "enlightened" people that support Islam and every other culture that disagrees with true liberal Western values.
name names or keep your insinuations to yourself.
You also know who they are, I'm not here to call out specific members and digging through their posting history to satisfy your needs.
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
that's a chickenshit excuse.
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
Fuck fascists
I agree, who are they today?
stop it please my sides
Well you seem to have identified fascists, I'm just wondering in your opinion who they happen to be and why?
Look man if your going to play dumb I won't bite.
Who's playing dumb, it's a sincere question.
If you want to make a bunch of generalizations without any meaning or substance to it, why waste the time?
If you have something to say just say it, why the apprehension?</font>
you're serious right now.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Errl_Shmirl
New Kid On The Block
Registered: 03/25/17
Posts: 263
Loc: Southern Plains
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You guys need to try Alex Jones "super cuck beta male vitality" it'll put hair on the Antifa chest
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Being violent against fascists makes YOU a fascist.
Just ask the Allied powers of WW2.
Sounds like you're attempting to justify the violent actions of "ANTIFA" groups, is that the case?
No im just ridiculing the idiots who equivocate them with fascists.
They're fascist wannabes.
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24451470 - 07/02/17 08:03 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are people in ANTIFA mainly angry white male homosexuals?
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 11 hours, 28 minutes
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Remember, antifascist action (antifa) is a decentralized entity centred around militant resistance to fascism. You could possibly understand 'antifa' to serve the function of an early #hashtag; using a collective label to describe autonomous groups made cohesion and solidarity simpler in an era before social media. But it is wrong to understand antifa as a cohesive entity operating off of a single playbook.
It is fair to criticize individual actions claimed by antifascists, but fairly ridiculous to oppose the premise of antifascism in principle; and that's what you're doing when you attempt to blanket criticize antifa, because the only thing that truly unites antifascist activists everywhere is our opposition to fascism. For example, do you feel antifascists fighting against ISIS in Rojava are subject to these criticisms of yours?
Yes, violence plays its character throughout these stories of antifascist resistance. Physical confrontation is not only a common part of antifa organizing, but is central to its praxis. The antifa project itself is founded on a “no platform” principle, which means halting fascist organizing, speech, and public expression through any available means. This tactic is not meant just to create a counter-narrative, but to sever fascist access to any form of speech and to keep militancy as a central tenet. This strategy of organizing has been successful through the early days of the National Front, into the veneer of respectability with the British National Party (BNP), and later into groups like Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West (PEGIDA), the English Defense League (EDL), and the UK Independence Party (UKIP). These nationalist groups were founded through connections between the mainstream political sphere on the one hand, and violent racist street gangs on the other; and antifascist groups, using the "no platform" principal, have had documented success in destroying/preventing these connections.
Antifascist direct action movements like AFA and Red Action have not been fully replicated in the US or Canada. This is not to say, however, that anti-racist organizing has not been successful there; SHARP and RASH toeing up to neo-Nazi skinhead culture in the 90's is a good example, but this was mostly contained within a subculture and did not feature the widespread attention current antifascist action in the USA does. In the US, the racial street terrorists primarily take the forms of various incarnations of the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi skinheads. There is a history of crossover into political movements, notably with organizations like the Council of Conservative Citizens’ connections to the KKK and the American Freedom Party with Golden State Skinheads in California. Those connections are real, but the political organizations they prop up have little to no actual crossover into the general political sphere. This is a large difference from Europe where fascist parties hold representative positions; and probably a large reason behind the noticeable difference between antifascist action taking place in N. America and the rest of the world.
What you are seeing happening in American politics today, though - and this is well documented - is that openly fascist elements are seeing widespread acceptance among the less extreme members of the right to a degree not seen before. It has reached the point to where the far-rights candidate of choice now holds power in the USA; and what you are seeing is the antifascist resistance rise in response. Someone who is comfortable marching with open neo-Nazis is not convinced that antifascists are the real fascists when they get punched in the face later that day; if you are comfortable marching with neo-Nazis, you have already made up your mind.
Remember, statistically it is elements of the far-right who are currently perpetrating the greatest violence (up to and including killings). If the violent actions of antifa (mostly limited to physical assault and harassment) is enough for you to consider a violent reaction towards antifascists as being appropriate, what kind of response does the greater violence of the far-right endorse?
I think it is fair to criticize individuals actions, so that we can better improve our effectiveness. This is especially true when you consider that a large number of people now repping antifa have been only very recently turned on to the concept; no point being arrested for sloppy actions. That being said, you must also remember that the media slant towards antifascist and anarchist organizing is a very heavy one. If your main source of information on an action is through news reports and youtube videos, perhaps it is better to leave the criticism for those with direct experience.
If you want to have a better grasp of what actually constitutes antifascist action, I recommend the documentary "Antifa: Chasseurs de Skins"; a 2008 French documentary on how groups of youth in 1980's Paris generated a backlash against the neo-Nazi skinhead subculture, and by doing so earned themselves the nickname Chasseurs de Skins or ‘Skinhead Hunters’.
Also, antifascists make better music than fascists:
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Bubbles85
Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,884
Loc: England
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Quote:
JustATourist said:
As far as I know "Antifa" is not a specific organisation, only very different people and groups that call themselves "anti-fascists".
Pretty much all antifa protestors in the US are just SJW anti-free speech silly kids.
Around the world other groups that call themselves "anti-fascists" don't seem to have anything to do with these people.
Here is a group calling themselves "anti-fascists" who fought and won against an ISIS group in Syria:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom
For example, do you feel antifascists fighting against ISIS in Rojava are subject to these criticisms of yours?
Of course not. These are real men, fighting real fascism. Just like my Granddad and his brother fighting the Nazis in WW2.
The pencil necked "antifascist" faggots of today in our country's, are for the most part, nothing but a bunch of self hating, middle class white kids, who have been indoctrinated at university into the retarded life of political correctness and speech censorship. Sounds kinda fascist to me 
Radical Jihadists regularly hold hate filled rallies across the UK and the rest of Europe for that matter. Do Antifa show up to voice their opposition? Do they fuck. And people wonder why know one takes these little bitches seriously.
Ironically, the only ones who do voice their opposition to these radical Jihadists, are the ones labeled as fascists and racists by the so called Antifa fags ..... I guess the irony is lost on these self entitled little girls.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Remember, antifascist action (antifa) is a decentralized entity centred around militant resistance to fascism. You could possibly understand 'antifa' to serve the function of an early #hashtag; using a collective label to describe autonomous groups made cohesion and solidarity simpler in an era before social media. But it is wrong to understand antifa as a cohesive entity operating off of a single playbook.
It is fair to criticize individual actions claimed by antifascists, but fairly ridiculous to oppose the premise of antifascism in principle; and that's what you're doing when you attempt to blanket criticize antifa, because the only thing that truly unites antifascist activists everywhere is our opposition to fascism. For example, do you feel antifascists fighting against ISIS in Rojava are subject to these criticisms of yours?
Yes, violence plays its character throughout these stories of antifascist resistance. Physical confrontation is not only a common part of antifa organizing, but is central to its praxis. The antifa project itself is founded on a “no platform” principle, which means halting fascist organizing, speech, and public expression through any available means. This tactic is not meant just to create a counter-narrative, but to sever fascist access to any form of speech and to keep militancy as a central tenet. This strategy of organizing has been successful through the early days of the National Front, into the veneer of respectability with the British National Party (BNP), and later into groups like Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West (PEGIDA), the English Defense League (EDL), and the UK Independence Party (UKIP). These nationalist groups were founded through connections between the mainstream political sphere on the one hand, and violent racist street gangs on the other; and antifascist groups, using the "no platform" principal, have had documented success in destroying/preventing these connections.
Antifascist direct action movements like AFA and Red Action have not been fully replicated in the US or Canada. This is not to say, however, that anti-racist organizing has not been successful there; SHARP and RASH toeing up to neo-Nazi skinhead culture in the 90's is a good example, but this was mostly contained within a subculture and did not feature the widespread attention current antifascist action in the USA does. In the US, the racial street terrorists primarily take the forms of various incarnations of the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi skinheads. There is a history of crossover into political movements, notably with organizations like the Council of Conservative Citizens’ connections to the KKK and the American Freedom Party with Golden State Skinheads in California. Those connections are real, but the political organizations they prop up have little to no actual crossover into the general political sphere. This is a large difference from Europe where fascist parties hold representative positions; and probably a large reason behind the noticeable difference between antifascist action taking place in N. America and the rest of the world.
What you are seeing happening in American politics today, though - and this is well documented - is that openly fascist elements are seeing widespread acceptance among the less extreme members of the right to a degree not seen before. It has reached the point to where the far-rights candidate of choice now holds power in the USA; and what you are seeing is the antifascist resistance rise in response. Someone who is comfortable marching with open neo-Nazis is not convinced that antifascists are the real fascists when they get punched in the face later that day; if you are comfortable marching with neo-Nazis, you have already made up your mind.
Remember, statistically it is elements of the far-right who are currently perpetrating the greatest violence (up to and including killings). If the violent actions of antifa (mostly limited to physical assault and harassment) is enough for you to consider a violent reaction towards antifascists as being appropriate, what kind of response does the greater violence of the far-right endorse?
I think it is fair to criticize individuals actions, so that we can better improve our effectiveness. This is especially true when you consider that a large number of people now repping antifa have been only very recently turned on to the concept; no point being arrested for sloppy actions. That being said, you must also remember that the media slant towards antifascist and anarchist organizing is a very heavy one. If your main source of information on an action is through news reports and youtube videos, perhaps it is better to leave the criticism for those with direct experience.
If you want to have a better grasp of what actually constitutes antifascist action, I recommend the documentary "Antifa: Chasseurs de Skins"; a 2008 French documentary on how groups of youth in 1980's Paris generated a backlash against the neo-Nazi skinhead subculture, and by doing so earned themselves the nickname Chasseurs de Skins or ‘Skinhead Hunters’.
Also, antifascists make better music than fascists:
QUOTED FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING TRUTH.
The fact that a number of antifa are a bit of a disgrace, which is mirrored among the fascists, I think in the Reich a lot of neonazis would find themselves on the same one way track to Poland as the antifa, does not negate the fact that their uniting factor is an opposition against fascism.
Antifascism is a movement born out of need to counter upsurging force of fascism, national socialism and other totalitarianism, which is why you also have Antifa fighting ISIS, antifascism is more a form of antitotalitarianism, and Antifa are a riotous autonomous and decentralized branch thereof who are willing to get on the barricades and physically confront and drive back this force of oppression.
That the Shroomery would have a thread devoited to an almost unanymous belittling of antifa is a CRAZY development. Its completely opposed to the values that the community held dear in the early years.
Rallying against antifascists?
I know you got another civil war coming and are ramping up to rage it out in the streets but, really? 
If we have to choose sides between Antifascism and being opposed to Antifascism, I'll choose Antifascism.
 was a very outspoken antifascist, so this is not about left or right, he was more republican than the republican party is today. He would not hesitate to call many Antifa heinous but he had a clear enough view on the force of fascism in history and today, to oppose it.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24451827 - 07/02/17 11:35 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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differences.
Edited by akira_akuma (08/31/17 12:53 PM)
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Cyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope
Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
all of this crap is "fascism-lite"...i mean, Trump supporters? REALLY? they aren't fucking fascists. hell, some of them probably don't even know what the fuck it is, and just claim it because it's meme worthy.
the antifascist belittling are over those whom are trying to beat up Trump supporters for simply supporting their NON-FASCIST president. i think that's why they are being belittled. because they don't know what the fuck they are doing, in that regard. Zappa would have recognized that too, at least, who knows...but i think! he probably would have been no fan of Trump either (not conservative enough) but he wouldn't have thought he or his supporters were actual fascists.
Yea I don't consider Trump a real fascist like you said fascist lite. His supporters are primarily the working class who have been duped by a slick con man.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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NO.... NAZIS.. THEY ARE ALL FASCIST NAZIS.. EVERY LAST ONE. PUNCH THEM ALL IN THE FACE. DONT LET THEM SPEAK. NO SPACE FOR FASHES@!!!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Gotta watch out for those Clock 19s
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
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Loc: Richmond, VA
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See...any sane person is against fascism. But you defend the degenerates that throw home made bombs at average Trump supporters and set buildings on fire because you are so easily triggered by words. That's why "Antifa" is a laughing stock. None of you even know what you're doing, and none of you are the slightest bit intimidating! I would "Sieg Heil" to your face just to watch you get slapped down instantly
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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I'm pretty sure Hitler would consider Trump an undisciplined sack of shit, so the comparison goes astray.
Nazism is defined by ORDER, neat rows of people locked in iron lockstep.
Trumpism (lets call it that) is defined by CHAOS, everybody doing whatever and the president addressing the world from the bathroom on twitter.
That's a big difference.
A Nazi rally resembles a running machine, everybody doing exactly their part and the rest is focus. A Trump rally is inbetween a town hall meeting and a lynching mob.
Order and Chaos, two opposites.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 1
#24451919 - 07/02/17 12:12 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/feminist-explains-why-she-left-social-justice-cult
Quote:
“I see increasing numbers of so-called liberals cheering censorship and defending violence as a response to speech. I see seemingly reasonable people wishing death on others and laughing at escalating suicide and addiction rates of the white working class. I see liberal think pieces written in opposition to expressing empathy or civility in interactions with those with whom we disagree. I see 63 million Trump voters written off as “nazis” who are okay to target with physical violence. I see concepts like equality and justice being used as a mask for resentful, murderous rage.
How easy is it for ordinary humans to commit atrocious acts? History teaches us it’s pretty damn easy when you are blinded to your own hypocrisy. When you believe you are morally superior, when you have dehumanized those you disagree with, you can justify almost anything. In a particularly vocal part of the left, justification for dehumanizing and committing violence against those on the right has already begun.
The ideology is post-modernist cultural marxism, and it operates as a secular religion. Most are indoctrinated in liberal elite colleges, though many are being indoctrinated online these days. It has its own dogma and jargon, meant to make you feel like a good person, and used to lecture others on their ‘sin.’ “Check your privilege”- much like “mansplaining” and “gaslighting”- all at one time useful terms- have over time lost a lot of their meaning."
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Quote:
Eminence said:
you defend the degenerates that throw home made bombs at average Trump supporters and set buildings on fire because you are so easily triggered by words
Where's Shivas.Wisdom doing that? He very clearly distinguishes between the wheat and the chaff of antifascism.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24451933 - 07/02/17 12:19 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Eminence said:
you defend the degenerates that throw home made bombs at average Trump supporters and set buildings on fire because you are so easily triggered by words
Where's Shivas.Wisdom doing that? He very clearly distinguishes between the wheat and the chaff of antifascism.
You haven't seen his other posts on this topic have you?
Also..do you really think my Hitler comment was meant to be taken seriously? No..I said that because so many of them love to compare people who are against them to Hitler.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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I was just addressing the notion that you brought up that compares Trump and Hitler.
I have done it myself, but now felt the need to highlight a crucial difference between the two.
Mentally, you dress up for a Nazi rally and you dress down for a Trump rally.
Its a big difference, that of Order and Chaos.
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qman
Stranger
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24451969 - 07/02/17 12:34 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
I was just addressing the notion that you brought up that compares Trump and Hitler.
I have done it myself, but now felt the need to highlight a crucial difference between the two.
Mentally, you dress up for a Nazi rally and you dress down for a Trump rally.
Its a big difference, that of Order and Chaos.
So why do you continue to claim that there's some dangerous fascist movement out there that needs to be addressed by a bunch of nut cases?
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
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Quote:
Eminence said:
Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Eminence said:
you defend the degenerates that throw home made bombs at average Trump supporters and set buildings on fire because you are so easily triggered by words
Where's Shivas.Wisdom doing that? He very clearly distinguishes between the wheat and the chaff of antifascism.
You haven't seen his other posts on this topic have you?
Please quote me where I state I support throwing home made bombs at average Trump supporters.
I have always been very clear that I don't support any antifa action outright, nor do I believe antifascists above reproach or error; you just seem to always ignore this.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24451972 - 07/02/17 12:36 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mescalator said:
These guys are ironically the biggest fascists around. I've just been going through lots of vidoes of them getting owned by patriots, which is satsfying. They don't have any arguments and everyone who disagrees with their far left views is somehow a Nazi who is a worhty target for violence.
Does anyone on this site actually agree with ANTIFA?
Probably the virtue signallers and terrorist defenders. Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Being violent against fascists makes YOU a fascist.
Just ask the Allied powers of WW2.
Triggered
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
all of this crap is "fascism-lite"...i mean, Trump supporters? REALLY? they aren't fucking fascists. hell, some of them probably don't even know what the fuck it is, and just claim it because it's meme worthy.
the antifascist belittling are over those whom are trying to beat up Trump supporters for simply supporting their NON-FASCIST president. i think that's why they are being belittled. because they don't know what the fuck they are doing, in that regard.
Admittedly, the beginning of Trumps presidency was a clusterfuck of aggression from both camps, and I can't say I necessarily support every action claimed by 'antifa', but I also don't know enough to be willing to denounce them either.
But let me assure you that, at least in the anarchist circles I run in, a distinction is held between your average Republican, and the crypto-fascist (sometimes out and out fascist) members of the alt-right. Part of antifascist action is intelligence gathering, and familiar faces are popping up at every "free speech protest". This is actually an intentional tactic used by legitimate fascists (and other political movements), entryism.
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 1
#24451995 - 07/02/17 12:42 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Somehow it comes as no surprise that you are in favor of the antifa punks. No, we are not talking about some group in another country fighting isis. We are talking about young punks shutting down free speech as you know very well. They only get brave when its 10 of them against 1
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Admittedly, the beginning of Trumps presidency was a clusterfuck of aggression from both camps, and I can't say I necessarily support every action claimed by 'antifa', but I also don't know enough to be willing to denounce them either.
But let me assure you that, at least in the anarchist circles I run in, a distinction is held between your average Republican, and the crypto-fascist (sometimes out and out fascist) members of the alt-right. Part of antifascist action is intelligence gathering, and familiar faces are popping up at every "free speech protest". This is actually an intentional tactic used by legitimate fascists (and other political movements), entryism.
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
We get it. Everybody that disagrees with you is a fascist, and therefore should be silenced.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: lowbrow] 4
#24452036 - 07/02/17 01:00 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not sure if intentionally misconstrued or just poor reading comprehension.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
This is exactly what I was talking about. Trying to justify any random person getting maced or having bottles thrown at their heads just because they're associated or even just standing near other people who YOU consider fascist. People that are going to free speech rallies are considered "fascist" to you?
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Here's another video I find hilarious. This white savior Antifa coward doesn't say a thing when confronted by a black dude He's like "oh shit, my pet wasn't supposed to turn on me!"
There's countless videos of these jokers just like this.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,803
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
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Naw, it's cool, I got your underlying message. Support antifa or we're fascists.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within.
Average trump supporters? How about normal people just trying to go to work?
Attacking a women
Pepper spraying a women who is just talking to a reporter
Targeted the woman who filmed this video
Antifa protestors pepper spray and throw rocks at homeless people, because they got pissed at Antifa for leaving their trash all over the place
Yeah fuck those fascist homeless people for wanting clean streets where they live 
When average fucking street urchins are attacking Antifa and telling them to get the fuck out... MAYBE IT'S TIME TO SIT BACK AND REFLECT A LITTLE BIT ON TERRIBLE LIFE CHOICES
The list goes on and fucking on. Shall I continue?
Go ahead and try to justify those. Go on.. show me all the fascist elements within
The only real fascists in this country are "Antifa". Bunch of over-privileged cunts. Antifa is nothing but a really bad joke.
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qman
Stranger
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 1
#24452241 - 07/02/17 02:41 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:[/b
QUOTED FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING TRUTH.
The fact that a number of antifa are a bit of a disgrace, which is mirrored among the fascists, I think in the Reich a lot of neonazis would find themselves on the same one way track to Poland as the antifa, does not negate the fact that their uniting factor is an opposition against fascism.
Antifascism is a movement born out of need to counter upsurging force of fascism, national socialism and other totalitarianism, which is why you also have Antifa fighting ISIS, antifascism is more a form of antitotalitarianism, and Antifa are a riotous autonomous and decentralized branch thereof who are willing to get on the barricades and physically confront and drive back this force of oppression.
That the Shroomery would have a thread devoited to an almost unanymous belittling of antifa is a CRAZY development. Its completely opposed to the values that the community held dear in the early years.
Rallying against antifascists?
I know you got another civil war coming and are ramping up to rage it out in the streets but, really?
If we have to choose sides between Antifascism and being opposed to Antifascism, I'll choose Antifascism.
"born out of need to counter upsurging force of fascism"
Give us a break, these ANTIFA fools are "protesting" conservative speakers like Ann Coulter and Ben Shapiro, that's pathetic.
"That the Shroomery would have a thread devoited to an almost unanymous belittling of antifa is a Crazy development"
No it's not, believers of freedom value free speech, we value non-violent protests, we value the exchange of ideas, these morons in ANTIFA are the opposite of those human rights, that's why we stand up to those losers.
"Rally against antifascists"
But they're not antifascists, they're the complete opposite, open your eyes.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 1
#24452296 - 07/02/17 03:07 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I opened my eyes in the swimming pool today, and I saw a Jewish gentleman with the concentration camp serial number tattoo on him. Not making that up for dramatic effect.
"Fascist" has an entirely different meaning when World War II was your home front, than when it was a horrid conflict overseas. The remnants of the Reich are all around us, here.
I speak from the European perspective where marauding gangs of neonazis are a problem, where the cancer of fascism is rotting away at every major parliament, where this talk of fascism and antifascism isnt as academic as in the US.
Here, amidst the remnants of the Reich, the Antifa were born. The US culturally appropriated that. There is a difference.
USA-logic in action:
The Worst Of Them Define Them So They Are All Fascists Themselves Therefore They Are A Threat And We Must Unite Against Them.
No wonder you guys have been at constant war since the stone age!
There is a bit more to antifa than hooligans being hooligans under the guise of activism. Unlike the TV screen of the evening news, the world is three dimensional.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24452308 - 07/02/17 03:14 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Antifaschistische Aktion, Antifascistische Aktie, Antifascist Action or Antifascistisk Aktion — abbreviated as Antifa (German/Dutch/English) or AFA (Scandinavian) — is a far-left, extra-parliamentary, anti-fascist network in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Australia, Canada, and the United States of America whose stated goal is to "smash fascism in all its forms".[1] Some of its members are influenced by the theory of triple oppression, and all of its members claims to oppose sexism, racism, and classism. The point of the organization is to exchange information and to coordinate activities between local groups.
The group's activities have included handing out flyers, organizing demonstrations, direct action, and property destruction. They believe that physical aggression and violence are necessary to achieve their goals, due to the violence and aggression minority groups face at the hands of fascists and the far-right[citation needed]. In line with their ideology, and as a consequence of being constantly monitored by the police, the group has no central authority. This means it has a flat organization consisting of many independent groupings, without a board or leader. AFA works with other anti-racist groups all over Europe.[2][3] It is also described as a heterogeneous group which in the late 1930s and early 1940s was mostly made up of social democrats, communists, and progressive Christians following the collapse of Nazi government and civil society after World War Two.[4]
Germany
The first German movement to call itself Antifaschistische Aktion was proclaimed by the German Communist Party (KPD) in their newspaper Rote Fahne in 1932 and held its first rally in Berlin on 10 July 1932, then capital of the Weimar Republic. During the early 1930s amidst rising tensions between Nazis and the communists, Berlin in particular has been the site of regular and often very violent clashes between the two groups. In May 1932, the communist paramilitary organisation Rotfrontkämpferbund had been banned and, following a skirmish between Nazi and communist members in the parliament, the Antifaschistische Aktion was founded to ensure that the communists had still a militant wing to rival the paramilitary organisations of the Nazis. After the forced dissolution in the wake of the Machtergreifung in 1933, the movement was revived during the 1980s
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,173
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Quote:
Eminence said:
See...any sane person is against fascism. But you defend the degenerates that throw home made bombs at average Trump supporters and set buildings on fire because you are so easily triggered by words. That's why "Antifa" is a laughing stock. None of you even know what you're doing, and none of you are the slightest bit intimidating! I would "Sieg Heil" to your face just to watch you get slapped down instantly
What a tough guy.
In my mind's eye I'm seeing a fat hillbilly with a buzz-cut and a flannel with the sleeves cut off. Probably sitting around in a Sonic parking lot and mad-dogging anyone who doesn't look like they're from there.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
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Think what ya want man
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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this is ridiculous.
Edited by akira_akuma (07/02/17 04:32 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24452486 - 07/02/17 04:32 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
not in reality.
in reality, if i'm not one, i'm not one.
you organize the pursuit of ID'ing those whom you call fascists, as well...dude, who are you trying to convince? I'VE SEEN IT.
and what, they aren't allowed, but ANTIFA is?
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
I have always been very clear that I don't support any antifa action outright, nor do I believe antifascists above reproach or error; you just seem to always ignore this.
yes, the same exact problem can be found within the alt-right.
there is only fractured pursuits.
Quote:
Asante said:
I opened my eyes in the swimming pool today, and I saw a Jewish gentleman with the concentration camp serial number tattoo on him. Not making that up for dramatic effect.
"Fascist" has an entirely different meaning when World War II was your home front, than when it was a horrid conflict overseas. The remnants of the Reich are all around us, here.
fascism =/= national socialism
fascism arises when a nations sovereignty is at risk to forces beyond it's control, so people insularize.
it doesn't arise out of bubblegum lovedrops.
you see protests erupting the the street in order to take out a DULY ELECTED PRESIDENT, democratically selected by the people who WON, in a race, mind you...you're gonna get burned. it's a reactionary movement...and also, with no real HISTORICAL precedent being an example. ie, it's not even CLOSE to what happened in the past...this is simply a confusion of terms to even THINK that it's anything like the rise of fascism in the early last century.
this is people getting mad at the president elect and the free-citizens whom elected him...and lashing out...and the reaction therefrom of said "lashing out". it's purely defensive.
and that's really the nitty-gritty of it. ^
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Can anyone find me antifa video where they actually fight the police? It looks like they're either crying about one of their own being arrested or actually asking the police to arrest the people they're fighting against. They complain about living in a police state but instead of fighting the police they start shit with random people they don't know. Not only are they not scratching the power structure, the appear to be afraid to try to scratch the power structure. If you disagree show me a video of them fighting anyone who is part of the organized establishment.
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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.
You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.
I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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I got you bro
"The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists". - Winston Churchill, Prophet
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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A lot of the posters get it, but a few like asante are living in ww2 or something. The antifa here are spoiled brats and punks who like to gang up on innocent people and to shut down speakers they do not agree with. Comparing them to the ones in europe who actually stood up to fascists is delusional. If the real antifascists saw what the punks are doing here who appropriated their name, the punks might have a real fight on their hands.
Shutting down speakers the uni invited to speak is the same as fighting nazis in ww2? I don't think so. Its funny how the msm refuses to report on their atrocities. But the latest rumor of the day about trump gets front page coverage. I'm waiting for sunshine to attend one of the rallies and 2 or 3 punks get the idea they can mess with him because its 3 - 1. Might be funny to watch, would love so see a video of that. Good quote, shroomism
Antifa = anti free speech.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
I got you bro
"The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists". - Winston Churchill, Prophet
Cameras or not, where I live if you call the cops "fucking pigs" like that they would fucking destroy you. Going to jail would be the least of your concerns. Those cops in Portland are easy going as shit. It's weird to side with the cops but I don't think they should be instructed to not react if they're being taunted and blasted with verbal abuse. If someone cusses at them they should arrest them for disorderly conduct then...you know, get coppy
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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.
You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.
I disendorse you.[/quote]
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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This is great, ANTIFA is now protesting Muslims that want Western liberal values, you didn't know that ANTIFA is a huge supporter of Sharia Law so any Muslims that oppose it are now being labeled as Islamophobia!!
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24452906 - 07/02/17 07:20 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
This is great, ANTIFA is now protesting Muslims that want Western liberal values, you didn't know that ANTIFA is a huge supporter of Sharia Law so any Muslims that oppose it are now being labeled as Islamophobia!!
i hate this timeline.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,476
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 3 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24452928 - 07/02/17 07:28 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
This is great, ANTIFA is now protesting Muslims that want Western liberal values, you didn't know that ANTIFA is a huge supporter of Sharia Law so any Muslims that oppose it are now being labeled as Islamophobia!!
I dunno man I think most of these people just want to make themselves feel better about themselves by telling themselves a story about themselves about how they defend others. childish but not fascist
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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the thing is, Morrowind: do you understand the Conservative/Republican Dialectic?
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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I said it before and I'll say it again...
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 11 hours, 28 minutes
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 2
#24454376 - 07/03/17 11:50 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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It does seem a little hypocritical.
If I understand things, they don't oppose antifa because of their opposition to fascists; instead, they oppose antifa because indiscriminate application of "no platforming" oftens leads to innocent, non-fashy, people being targeted with violence. In response to this, violence towards antifa is not just acceptable, but celebrated.
To that I have to wonder, do they believe that every individual they identify as antifa is personally guilty of this indiscriminate violence? Or perhaps it is guilt through association, where standing with or dressing alike is sufficient to warrant physical removal?
If it is indiscriminate violence that they oppose, and not the fact that antifa is opposed to fascism, what extra knowledge do they have to know that every blackclad individual being attacked in these celebrated youtube videos was guilty of indiscriminate violence, rather than the victim?
What is the different between antifa indiscriminately grouping all opposition as violent fascists versus anti-antifa indiscriminately grouping all opposition as violent antifascists, if not the groups they indiscriminately target?
Take this thread for example, despite my repeated attempts to admit that I do not support every antifa action outright and that I don't consider anyone I disagree with a nazi, I am continually looped into this group of supporting "throwing homemade bombs at average Trump supporters" and calling everyone I disagree with a "nazi"; and thus, I can only assume, deserving of the same celebrated violence. Exactly the type of indiscriminate actions that these very users claim to oppose. I don't believe I've once called a user on this site nazi or fascist (though I did once insinuate that a member may be friends with a few).
So what am I missing here?
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Quote:
So what am I missing here?
Once any movement catches on enough to get famous it goes to shit so if you associate with anything that's known you become another turd in the portajohn.
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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.
You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.
I disendorse you.[/quote]
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Im against all of these unorganized pseudo movements
Set down rules, regulations, a hierarchy and recruit with conscience
Otherwise you get ineffective bullshit like this, its one thing to protest anonymously, but when you give yourself a label, you are associating with everyone else wearing that label. Thats how the public perceives you and thats really how they should.
Its called accountability.
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GripOfDeath
SWIM
Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 45
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Quote:
Set down rules, regulations, a hierarchy and recruit with conscience
That's what George Washington did and look at this shit hole he created.
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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.
You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.
I disendorse you.[/quote]
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
In response to this, violence towards antifa is not just acceptable, but celebrated.
not from me. but self-defense is accepted.
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Quote:
GripOfDeath said:
https://i.imgflip.com/1qfa6j.jpg
Lol, you sound like a Maoist
"WITH US OR AGAINST US"
Go back to China MF
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter
Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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They totally remind me of the Red Guard.
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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.
You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.
I disendorse you.[/quote]
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Antifa? Surely you mean dumbass infoshop kids.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
GripOfDeath said:
https://i.imgflip.com/1qfa6j.jpg
Lol, you sound like a Maoist
"WITH US OR AGAINST US"
Go back to China MF
Oh you...You've never actually studied Chinese history, have you?
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Quote:
chibiabos said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
GripOfDeath said:
https://i.imgflip.com/1qfa6j.jpg
Lol, you sound like a Maoist
"WITH US OR AGAINST US"
Go back to China MF
Oh you...You've never actually studied Chinese history, have you?
Because Maoists were reknown for their tolerance of opposing points of view werent they?
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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I'll take that as a no.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada 
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 This thread was moved from The Pub.
Reason:
Moved to Political Discussion
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Lol, you sound like a Maoist
"WITH US OR AGAINST US"
Quote:
Either you are with us or you're with the enemies of freedom.
Quote:
Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24454636 - 07/03/17 01:58 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I cant agree with those statements 
People should be free to protest the wars etc
Should have invaded Saudi Arabia, considering they're the heartland of Wahabbism, rather than relatively secular Iraq. Afghanistan is another story.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24454819 - 07/03/17 03:31 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
I said it before and I'll say it again...
Not judging by the worst, I'm judging by them all. Every sane person is against fascism, but "Antifa" is its own thing, and they don't know what the hell they're doing, as shown by multiple videos in this thread.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,803
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
It does seem a little hypocritical.
If I understand things, they don't oppose antifa because of their opposition to fascists; instead, they oppose antifa because indiscriminate application of "no platforming" oftens leads to innocent, non-fashy, people being targeted with violence. In response to this, violence towards antifa is not just acceptable, but celebrated.
To that I have to wonder, do they believe that every individual they identify as antifa is personally guilty of this indiscriminate violence? Or perhaps it is guilt through association, where standing with or dressing alike is sufficient to warrant physical removal?
If it is indiscriminate violence that they oppose, and not the fact that antifa is opposed to fascism, what extra knowledge do they have to know that every blackclad individual being attacked in these celebrated youtube videos was guilty of indiscriminate violence, rather than the victim?
What is the different between antifa indiscriminately grouping all opposition as violent fascists versus anti-antifa indiscriminately grouping all opposition as violent antifascists, if not the groups they indiscriminately target?
Take this thread for example, despite my repeated attempts to admit that I do not support every antifa action outright and that I don't consider anyone I disagree with a nazi, I am continually looped into this group of supporting "throwing homemade bombs at average Trump supporters" and calling everyone I disagree with a "nazi"; and thus, I can only assume, deserving of the same celebrated violence. Exactly the type of indiscriminate actions that these very users claim to oppose. I don't believe I've once called a user on this site nazi or fascist (though I did once insinuate that a member may be friends with a few).
So what am I missing here?
There's some major backpedaling going on here.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: lowbrow] 1
#24454956 - 07/03/17 04:36 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Could you please post direct quotes from Shiva where he says stuff you claim hes now backpedaling away from?
I think hes quite consistent.
I haven't seen this whole pro-numbnut posting of his. He never to my knowledge justified the excesses shown in these videos.
He's clearly antifsacist, but that doesnt make him someone who's all for these excesses.
You guys keep -not getting- that what you see in those videos are excesses by a fringe of Antifa. Antifa is not about harrassing good citizens.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24454970 - 07/03/17 04:41 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Shiva: "the sky is blue."
Other1: "he says the sky is brown!"
Other2: "he says the sky is brown!"
Shiva: "I merely said that the sky is light blue."
Other3: "backpedal alert!"
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Quote:
Eminence said:
Quote:
Asante said:
I said it before and I'll say it again...
Not judging by the worst, I'm judging by them all. Every sane person is against fascism, but "Antifa" is its own thing, and they don't know what the hell they're doing, as shown by multiple videos in this thread.
No, you're doing exactly what I'm meming out to you: you take a small sample group and conclude that all antifa dont know what they're doing.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24454984 - 07/03/17 04:48 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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And you take a small sample selected for good behavior and claim they are all like that so you can't say anything to eminence.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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GripOfDeath
SWIM
Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 45
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24454995 - 07/03/17 04:53 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Antifa does about as much to stop fascism as alt right people do to push it. Which means not really anything at all. I do wish they would actually do stuff besides just drink 40s and whine.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante] 1
#24455130 - 07/03/17 05:55 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
You guys keep -not getting- that what you see in those videos are excesses by a fringe of Antifa. Antifa is not about harrassing good citizens.
You're the one not getting it. Of course Antifa isn't about "harassing good citizens" it's about harassing people they think are fascist but considering all the people they've attacked, tried to force out of a certain area or tried to force to keep quiet, they don't know who real fascists are. The way you speak makes it seem like you think Antifa represents the average person who is against fascism (basically anyone who knows what it is).
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,803
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24455138 - 07/03/17 05:59 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Admittedly, the beginning of Trumps presidency was a clusterfuck of aggression from both camps, and I can't say I necessarily support every action claimed by 'antifa', but I also don't know enough to be willing to denounce them either.
But let me assure you that, at least in the anarchist circles I run in, a distinction is held between your average Republican, and the crypto-fascist (sometimes out and out fascist) members of the alt-right. Part of antifascist action is intelligence gathering, and familiar faces are popping up at every "free speech protest". This is actually an intentional tactic used by legitimate fascists (and other political movements), entryism.
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
Right here. He basically called all Trump supporters guilty by association fascists and implied it's okay to shut them up by force, and at the end of it implies support antifa or you're a fascist.
Then completely backpedaled here.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
It does seem a little hypocritical.
If I understand things, they don't oppose antifa because of their opposition to fascists; instead, they oppose antifa because indiscriminate application of "no platforming" oftens leads to innocent, non-fashy, people being targeted with violence. In response to this, violence towards antifa is not just acceptable, but celebrated.
To that I have to wonder, do they believe that every individual they identify as antifa is personally guilty of this indiscriminate violence? Or perhaps it is guilt through association, where standing with or dressing alike is sufficient to warrant physical removal?
If it is indiscriminate violence that they oppose, and not the fact that antifa is opposed to fascism, what extra knowledge do they have to know that every blackclad individual being attacked in these celebrated youtube videos was guilty of indiscriminate violence, rather than the victim?
What is the different between antifa indiscriminately grouping all opposition as violent fascists versus anti-antifa indiscriminately grouping all opposition as violent antifascists, if not the groups they indiscriminately target?
Take this thread for example, despite my repeated attempts to admit that I do not support every antifa action outright and that I don't consider anyone I disagree with a nazi, I am continually looped into this group of supporting "throwing homemade bombs at average Trump supporters" and calling everyone I disagree with a "nazi"; and thus, I can only assume, deserving of the same celebrated violence. Exactly the type of indiscriminate actions that these very users claim to oppose. I don't believe I've once called a user on this site nazi or fascist (though I did once insinuate that a member may be friends with a few).
So what am I missing here?
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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They're just hiding from accountability, I would approve of groups like this beig labelled terrorist organizations considering that is essentially their platforn (to use violence and intimidation)
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schwarg
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 2,817
Loc: San Diego
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Quote:
Cyrus19 said:
You could easily change it and substitute "wage slavery" for "property forfeiture" and "starvation" for "imprisonment"
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Quote:
Eminence said:
Quote:
Asante said:
I said it before and I'll say it again...
Not judging by the worst, I'm judging by them all. Every sane person is against fascism, but "Antifa" is its own thing, and they don't know what the hell they're doing, as shown by multiple videos in this thread.
"Every sane person is against fascism"
Apparently not, otherwise why would we need this "special" group of intellectuals called ANTIFA? They're the only people insightful enough to recognize this huge fascism threat today that the other 99.99% of the population just ignores it, I mean everyone can see the harm that Ben Shapiro causes to the world. 
"they don't know what the hell they're doing"
Just because they support Militant Islam that pisses on women, homosexuals and non-believers while protesting liberal Muslims who want to embrace Western values doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. 
Edited by qman (07/03/17 06:40 PM)
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Asante]
#24455252 - 07/03/17 06:57 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
You guys keep -not getting- that what you see in those videos are excesses by a fringe of Antifa. Antifa is not about harrassing good citizens.
No offense, but actually talking to people involved in that group just makes it look like another psuedo-anarchist circle jerk. All they're doing is screwing the poor (seriously), offering a solid excuse for an overbearing police presence and giving people a reason to finally shoot themselves some "libtards."
It's really going to suck for the kid who decides to smash up a storefront because Chomsky said bad things about global investment strategies, only to find out that the owner is waiting for them with a riot gun. And, of course, all of the people who egged the poor bastard on are going to go through all sorts of "logical" acrobatics to make it seem like their shitty, awful, practically nonexistant concepts of organization and leadership pretty much built the the kid's coffin, nailed it shut and buried it deep in the earth.
Hunter Thompson's essay on the aftermath of Ruben Salazar's murder (Strange Rumblings in Aztlan) is worth reading, here.
Edited by chibiabos (07/03/17 06:58 PM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 15 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman] 1
#24455255 - 07/03/17 06:58 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Asante dont just leave this flaming bag of shit on our doorstep.
Youre the one who let it burn for 5 pages, just throw it in the dumpster.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,803
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Asante dont just leave this flaming bag of shit on our doorstep.
Youre the one who let it burn for 5 pages, just throw it in the dumpster.
Translation: 'Asante, they are making too much sense, shut it down(silence their voices, after all it's the ANTIFA way.)
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 11 hours, 28 minutes
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
Right here. He basically called all Trump supporters guilty by association fascists and implied it's okay to shut them up by force, and at the end of it implies support antifa or you're a fascist.
Note I say "mistaken for one".
What I intended by that paragraph is this: people and groups known to antifascists since before Trumps election - people with a known history of violence, intimidation, and organizing - are showing up to the various 'pro-Trump' rallies. In some cases, their presence is explicitly announced with the open display of white supremacist and fascist symbols. These are the groups that are directly targeted by antifa no-platforming, not the average Trump supporter.
The issue is that the legitimate fascists are using these rallies as a platform for their organization and recruitment. This is not something antifascists will allow. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the average Trump supporter has not rejected these elements directly, instead choosing to stand together against the antifascists. When the inevitable street melee begins, it is only inevitable that a non-fashy Trump supporter standing amid the fascists will be caught up in the action.
This doesn't mean that the individual was directly targeted because their disagreement made them a nazi, guilty by association (in this instance) means that when a street brawl goes down, you will be lumped in with those you stand with. I will repeat again, although I'm sure some instances (especially directly after the inauguration) probably had over zealous antifa intentionally targeting undeserving individuals, I do not support that nor think it a practical tactic. But street brawls are confusing, and shit happens.
As to why the more moderate Republicans have chosen to not distance themselves from the extreme elements could be for a few reasons. One growing trend of the antifascist camp is that these black clad individuals are providing an outside enemy that is able to unite the disparate members of the right together. This has been reflected in the words of far-right organizers. This is being responded to; if you pay attention to these events in the USA, you will see that (despite still preparing for the worst) a movement had been made away from physical direct confrontation, to remove this unifying pressure. A great example of this can be seen from the recent rallies in DC. Antifascists had a completely separate rally, and in response to the removal of an outside threat, the one original rally devolved into two separate and opposed ones. The first being organized by the people opposed to the open racism of the alt-right, including much of the constitutionalist militias, while the second rally featured those who hold very little back in their rhetoric, Richard Spencer being one headliner. The purity cycle continues to this day, with the likely result that eventually the true fascists will find themselves rejected from the more moderate camp.
It becomes a lot easier to target fascists when they don't have public acceptance to hid behind.
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Edited by shivas.wisdom (07/04/17 01:34 AM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Im against all of these unorganized pseudo movements
Set down rules, regulations, a hierarchy and recruit with conscience
Otherwise you get ineffective bullshit like this, its one thing to protest anonymously, but when you give yourself a label, you are associating with everyone else wearing that label. Thats how the public perceives you and thats really how they should.
I mean, the anarchist view would be that lack of hierarchy and centralized leadership is one of the greatest strengths of these groups. Consolidated power inevitably leads to stagnation and corruption.
The affinity group is the basic building block and can be (and has been) quite effective. Solidarity and mutual support allows for greater coalitions to be built without removing this initial autonomy.
It is true, that an inability to control who wears this label can affect public opinion, this doesn't really phase anarchists. Public opinion (through endless state propaganda) is usually turned against anarchism. This isn't a battlefield most care to fight on. The ability for anarchists to act is not affected by public opinion, and recruiting happens through non-hierarchical channels.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Kind of embarrassing watching you try so hard to come off as a real activist.
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schwarg
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 2,817
Loc: San Diego
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I still don't understand how Anarcho-Communists seek to instate their society without a governing body and military to ensure it's kept in place and not overthrown by sane people.
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Cinnamon
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Show me the antifa counter demonstration, seemingly against your average Trump supporters, and I will show you the fascist elements within. Guilty by association, I suppose. If you are comfortable marching with fascists, don't be surprised if you are mistaken for one.
Right here. He basically called all Trump supporters guilty by association fascists and implied it's okay to shut them up by force, and at the end of it implies support antifa or you're a fascist.
Note I say "mistaken for one".
What I intended by that paragraph is this: people and groups known to antifascists since before Trumps election - people with a known history of violence, intimidation, and organizing - are showing up to the various 'pro-Trump' rallies. In some cases, their presence is explicitly announced with the open display of white supremacist and fascist symbols. These are the groups that are directly targeted by antifa no-platforming, not the average Trump supporter.
The issue is that the legitimate fascists are using these rallies as a platform for their organization and recruitment. This is not something antifascists will allow. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the average Trump supporter has not rejected these elements directly, instead choosing to stand together against the antifascists. When the inevitable street melee begins, it is only inevitable that a non-fashy Trump supporter standing amid the fascists will be caught up in the action.
This doesn't mean that the individual was directly targeted because their disagreement made them a nazi, guilty by association (in this instance) means that when a street brawl goes down, you will be lumped in with those you stand with. I will repeat again, although I'm sure some instances (especially directly after the inauguration) probably had over zealous antifa intentionally targeting undeserving individuals, I do not support that nor think it a practical tactic. But street brawls are confusing, and shit happens.
As to why the more moderate Republicans have chosen to not distance themselves from the extreme elements could be for a few reasons. One growing trend of the antifascist camp is that these black clad individuals are providing an outside enemy that is able to unite the disparate members of the right together. This has been reflected in the words of far-right organizers. This is being responded to; if you pay attention to these events in the USA, you will see that (despite still preparing for the worst) a movement had been made away from physical direct confrontation, to remove this unifying pressure. A great example of this can be seen from the recent rallies in DC. Antifascists had a completely separate rally, and in response to the removal of an outside threat, the one original rally devolved into two separate and opposed ones. The first being organized by the people opposed to the open racism of the alt-right, including much of the constitutionalist militias, while the second rally featured those who hold very little back in their rhetoric, Richard Spencer being one headliner. The purity cycle continues to this day, with the likely result that eventually the true fascists will find themselves rejected from the more moderate camp.
It becomes a lot easier to target fascists when they don't have public acceptance to hid behind.
So Trump rallies fester with fascists
and ANTIFA rallies fester with communists.
Both equally gross, the amount of hammer and sickle flags in ANTIFA rallies makes me barf, but I'm yet to see a swastika being flown in a Trump rally or 'freedom rally'.
Antifa is fighting a nonexistent enemy, so it has to come up with these silly ideas that Trump rallies 'hide', 'true' fascists, so what?
Who cares?
Do you not believe people are capable of their own thought?
That if Richard Spencer tried to recruit them, they don't have the capacity to think he's a dopey idiot?
Thank God those masked anarchists showed up and saved me, I was being mentally subdued by a fascist and almost threw up a sieg heil.
How are we even allowing people to pretend fascists exist in any kind of measurable quantity in the U.S?
We've totally accepted this lefty premise than anyone who disagrees with race baiting is a fascist, which inflates the numbers of 'fascists'.
it's a self-inflating, self-justifying system.
I think you'll find ANTIFA's attempts at 'smashing fascism' has created more of this objective 'fascism' than it's stopped.
Richard Spencer is low hanging fruit, that's not an ANTIFA victory, that's just pointing out the obvious and throwing a single guy into the public eye.
No one is worried about Spencer so much as people are worried about the Klan today.
Even so, people like Spencer have the right to assembly and the right to their views, this is where ANTIFA fails wildly, they can't accept that simple fact, that people can be as extreme and hateful in their views as they like, just as people can be extreme and kind in their views also.
ANTIFA is a meme group that should be classified as domestic terrorism, it's cancer.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Asante dont just leave this flaming bag of shit on our doorstep.
Youre the one who let it burn for 5 pages, just throw it in the dumpster.
Translation: 'Asante, they are making too much sense, shut it down(silence their voices, after all it's the ANTIFA way.)
Yeah its this type of stupid bullshit we try to keep out of Political Discussion.
But everyone in the pub saw that one antifa guy throw that trash can that one tome, and are henceforth sociopolitical experts.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Asante dont just leave this flaming bag of shit on our doorstep.
Youre the one who let it burn for 5 pages, just throw it in the dumpster.
Translation: 'Asante, they are making too much sense, shut it down(silence their voices, after all it's the ANTIFA way.)
Yeah its this type of stupid bullshit we try to keep out of Political Discussion.
Are you making a reference to my sarcasm, like this.....
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Being violent against fascists makes YOU a fascist.
Just ask the Allied powers of WW2.
Staying objective in these discussions doesn't seem to be your thing.
Also, by your logic, a thread that prominently produces an opinion other than your own should be shut down, but if anybody points out that's what you're saying, they're in the wrong.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
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he's not saying that it should necessarily be shut down. He's saying that it is dumb to let this thread live in the pub until trendal doesn't like it anymore, and then toss it into political discussion once it becomes a trainwreck.
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shivas.wisdom
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Quote:
schwarg said:
I still don't understand how Anarcho-Communists seek to instate their society without a governing body and military to ensure it's kept in place and not overthrown by sane people.
Anarchists have fielded non-hierarchical armies in the past. The Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine, and the Durruti Column are two common examples; as well as present day incarnations such as the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.
Anarchism does not mean chaotic disorder, it means non-hierarchical organizing.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
he's not saying that it should necessarily be shut down. He's saying that it is dumb to let this thread live in the pub until trendal doesn't like it anymore, and then toss it into political discussion once it becomes a trainwreck.
I don't even understand why he would of moved it.
Some political discourse, IMO, should stay in the pub.
It's better than a sheekle 'look at me cum on my own face' thread.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Stonehenge
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Loc: S.E.
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: lowbrow] 1
#24456577 - 07/04/17 11:13 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its really cause staff is in favor of all left wing lunatics so moving this to politics or conspiracy is a way of putting down opposition to the anti free speech crowd.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Its really cause staff is in favor of all left wing lunatics so moving this to politics or conspiracy is a way of putting down opposition to the anti free speech crowd.
The snowflakes in the Pub can't handle people disagreeing with their liberal positions, but as a result traffic is now down in the Pub as viewers don't have any real content to read.
So "the vibe" is now "positive" but viewership is down, why am I not surprised? BTW, I'm assuming traffic is down because it's dead in there now, I don't think it's a wild speculation on my part.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24456672 - 07/04/17 11:59 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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youre right, the pub must be dead because its been strangled by snowflake safe space liberals.
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akira_akuma
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Qman has actually taken on the persona of a propaganda outlet.
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Stonehenge
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Loc: S.E.
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24456716 - 07/04/17 12:17 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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>The snowflakes in the Pub can't handle people disagreeing with their liberal positions
When you think about it, antifa represents the core of liberal principals and values
1. extremely left wing
2. shuts down dissent against their beliefs
3. name calling, a liberal tactic since forever
The left usually will not come out and say anyone with a different point of view should be silenced but that is what they want. Antifa is doing it which gladdens the hearts of the LL. They will never say moderates or conservatives should be beaten up, but they cheer out loud or silently when antifa does it. Who has known a liberal who didn't call people with other viewpoints bad names? "fascist, nazi, etc" I would not be surprised if soros is funding the anti speech crowd right now.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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akira_akuma
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
>The snowflakes in the Pub can't handle people disagreeing with their liberal positions
When you think about it, antifa represents the core of liberal principals and values
1. extremely left wing
2. shuts down dissent against their beliefs
3. name calling, a liberal tactic since forever
The left usually will not come out and say anyone with a different point of view should be silenced but that is what they want. Antifa is doing it which gladdens the hearts of the LL. They will never say moderates or conservatives should be beaten up, but they cheer out loud or silently when antifa does it. Who has known a liberal who didn't call people with other viewpoints bad names? "fascist, nazi, etc" I would not be surprised if soros is funding the anti speech crowd right now.
and the KKK represents the "core" of right-wing values. that too, right? can't forget hardened support to lynch laws for the sake of preserving traditional values.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman] 4
#24456727 - 07/04/17 12:22 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Its really cause staff is in favor of all left wing lunatics so moving this to politics or conspiracy is a way of putting down opposition to the anti free speech crowd.
The snowflakes in the Pub can't handle people disagreeing with their liberal positions, but as a result traffic is now down in the Pub as viewers don't have any real content to read.
So "the vibe" is now "positive" but viewership is down, why am I not surprised? BTW, I'm assuming traffic is down because it's dead in there now, I don't think it's a wild speculation on my part.
its driving traffic to political discussion, but that's a double edged sword. You had been becoming gradually more credible until so many far-rightwingers started showing up. the viktors and eminences have been a bad influence on you. You've been running with a bad crowd, Q. It's not that I'm mad, I'm just disappointed.
We used to have real discussions around here sometimes. People would make claims that they could back up with sources. We might not ever agree, but at least we would have something to think about. Now everyone is too busy shouting slogans at each other. Even the Shroomery has fallen victim to the trumpification of the political discourse.
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qman
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Its really cause staff is in favor of all left wing lunatics so moving this to politics or conspiracy is a way of putting down opposition to the anti free speech crowd.
The snowflakes in the Pub can't handle people disagreeing with their liberal positions, but as a result traffic is now down in the Pub as viewers don't have any real content to read.
So "the vibe" is now "positive" but viewership is down, why am I not surprised? BTW, I'm assuming traffic is down because it's dead in there now, I don't think it's a wild speculation on my part.
its driving traffic to political discussion, but that's a double edged sword. You had been becoming gradually more credible until so many far-rightwingers started showing up. the viktors and eminences have been a bad influence on you. You've been running with a bad crowd, Q. It's not that I'm mad, I'm just disappointed.
We used to have real discussions around here sometimes. People would make claims that they could back up with sources. We might not ever agree, but at least we would have something to think about. Now everyone is too busy shouting slogans at each other. Even the Shroomery has fallen victim to the trumpification of the political discourse.
"bad influence on you. You're running with a bad crown, Q"
Too funny, my positions haven't changed. In fact, I had those positions years before Trump ever entered the picture, if others happen to agree or disagree with me I don't really care. I'm not here to be popular, I'm here to voice my opinions.
"Even the Shroomery has fallen victim to the trumpification of the political discourse"
Why wouldn't it since it's taken place everywhere else in this nation, if not most of Western culture?
I didn't need Trump to tell me about economic tariffs, illegal immigration and the harm of liberal nut cases like ANTIFA.
You see Trump didn't create Trumpism, the backlash to The Establishment and political correctness did, it's just nature taking its course.
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akira_akuma
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24457607 - 07/04/17 06:00 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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didn't need him to warn about conservative nutcases either. like the Ten Monuments guy.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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I'm a bad influence? Lol. I'm glad you think highly enough of me to consider me influential here, but I'm pretty sure people all over the country are coming to their own conclusions about these things if they hadn't already been thinking it for years.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
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You're right about that. People who dont think are arriving at those conclusions everyday.
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qman
Stranger
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
You're right about that. People who dont think are arriving at those conclusions everyday.
What conclusions?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24458762 - 07/05/17 09:14 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Conclusions like "Antifa are just as bad as actual fascists."
Or its fraternal twin: "the people who call out racism are the real racists."
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qman
Stranger
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Conclusions like "Antifa are just as bad as actual fascists."
Or its fraternal twin: "the people who call out racism are the real racists."
In many cases those statements have lots of evidence and validity behind them.
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tjackjack
Stranger
Registered: 05/08/17
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dont forget culture studies
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Conclusions like "Antifa are just as bad as actual fascists."
ANTIFA attempts to shut down free speech. That is an element of fascist doctrine.Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Or its fraternal twin: "the people who call out racism are the real racists."
What are you talking about? We are mainly talking about ANTIFA in America. You know, the ANTIFA that protested a professor's refusal to participate in 'A DAY WITHOUT WHITES DAY' by trying to get him fired.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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ballsalsa
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the ninjas are mostly idiots probably, but they are really a response to asshole "oathkeepers" and other rabble-rousers who travel across the country starting shit at "free speech rallies". It's no different than what would happen if berkeley liberals went to montana to promote gun control or something. Mind your own business and protest where you actually live, and dumbass ninjas won't show up to your rally.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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It has nothing to do with where they're from. Plenty of people are protesting in their own states/cities.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Conclusions like "Antifa are just as bad as actual fascists."
Or its fraternal twin: "the people who call out racism are the real racists."
It's true in some cases. Antifa is bad and resemble fascists more than the people they're fighting, but not as bad as actual fascists though because they're too stupid to be nearly as threatening. Just a little note on "racism" though..that word barely means anything to a lot of people anymore because it's used in the wrong context constantly. Like how CNN is blackmailing the dude on Reddit who made the Trump/CNN wrestling gif. Calling him a racist and a nazi and only didn't doxx him because he actually bitched out and apologized for it.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
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It has everything to do with the craziness in berkeley. Without the out of town scumbags rolling in, there is no real demand on the ground for these rallies. Without the skinhead/biker rallies, the dipshit ninjas just stay home and take bong rips instead of throwing m-80s at other dipshits.
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Eminence
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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No, you haven't seen all the videos then. They were doing this dumb shit before Berkley. And the bikers and "skinheads" as you call them were a response to Antifa in the first place I'm pretty sure. Plenty of videos of Antifa coming around and harassing old women as well. Lots of these "scumbags" are actually people from around the area just joining in on these free speech and whatever other rallies they've come to. You are completely wrong to suggest it's just a bunch of people who have no business there trying to stir shit up.
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qman
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
It has everything to do with the craziness in berkeley. Without the out of town scumbags rolling in, there is no real demand on the ground for these rallies. Without the skinhead/biker rallies, the dipshit ninjas just stay home and take bong rips instead of throwing m-80s at other dipshits.
The "protests" at places like Berkeley started way before the "skinheads" rolled into town to counter protest, I think you're confusing the time line story on this issue.
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qman
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Quote:
Eminence said:
No, you haven't seen all the videos then. They were doing this dumb shit before Berkley. And the bikers and "skinheads" as you call them were a response to Antifa in the first place I'm pretty sure. Plenty of videos of Antifa coming around and harassing old women as well. Lots of these "scumbags" are actually people from around the area just joining in on these free speech and whatever other rallies they've come to. You are completely wrong to suggest it's just a bunch of people who have no business there trying to be stir shit up.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24458957 - 07/05/17 10:56 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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decentralized, cementralized.
Edited by akira_akuma (08/31/17 12:55 PM)
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Registered: 09/12/08
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
It has everything to do with the craziness in berkeley. Without the out of town scumbags rolling in, there is no real demand on the ground for these rallies. Without the skinhead/biker rallies, the dipshit ninjas just stay home and take bong rips instead of throwing m-80s at other dipshits.
Bullshit. They shut down free speech before that when their was no counter protesters. Remember the riot over Milo Yiannopolis? There was no counter protesters when that got shut down, and that in turn, ralled up the right to make a trip to commieland(berkely).
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24458965 - 07/05/17 10:59 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
It has everything to do with the craziness in berkeley. Without the out of town scumbags rolling in, there is no real demand on the ground for these rallies. Without the skinhead/biker rallies, the dipshit ninjas just stay home and take bong rips instead of throwing m-80s at other dipshits.
The "protests" at places like Berkeley started way before the "skinheads" rolled into town to counter protest, I think you're confusing the time line story on this issue.
Maybe the first ninja protest where they smashed the atms, but without "oathkeepers" and others traveling in to throw fuel on the fire, this shit would have petered out long ago. At least in the Bay Area.
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qman
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
It has everything to do with the craziness in berkeley. Without the out of town scumbags rolling in, there is no real demand on the ground for these rallies. Without the skinhead/biker rallies, the dipshit ninjas just stay home and take bong rips instead of throwing m-80s at other dipshits.
The "protests" at places like Berkeley started way before the "skinheads" rolled into town to counter protest, I think you're confusing the time line story on this issue.
Maybe the first ninja protest where they smashed the atms, but without "oathkeepers" and others traveling in to throw fuel on the fire, this shit would have petered out long ago. At least in the Bay Area.
So according to your logic, Milo could now speak at Berkeley without any protests or issues IF the "oathkeepers" didn't "throw fuel on the fire"? You're wrong.
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lowbrow
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Maybe the first ninja protest where they smashed the atms, but without "oathkeepers" and others traveling in to throw fuel on the fire, this shit would have petered out long ago. At least in the Bay Area.
You can't say that for a fact.
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ballsalsa
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24458999 - 07/05/17 11:15 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, I'm saying that there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with, which was the whole purpose of the publicity stunt in the first place, to get a rise out of the vast majority of locals. My point was that we wouldn't be having these dueling rallies if out-of-towners would stay home to protest.
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lowbrow
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They were requested to speak by berkely students.
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qman
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
No, I'm saying that there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with, which was the whole purpose of the publicity stunt in the first place, to get a rise out of the vast majority of locals. My point was that we wouldn't be having these dueling rallies if out-of-towners would stay home to protest.
"there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with"
Total nonsense, you do realize that there are conservative student organizations at Berkeley?
You do realize there are plenty of conservative students at Berkeley?
"publicity stunt...to get a rise"
So now this is a conspiracy by a small group of students? I'm sorry, but Milo, Coulter and Shapiro speak at LOTS of different universities across the country, these speaking engagements are NOT "publicity stunts".
The violent protests were there way before the counter protesters came onto the scene.
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ballsalsa
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24459032 - 07/05/17 11:31 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
No, I'm saying that there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with, which was the whole purpose of the publicity stunt in the first place, to get a rise out of the vast majority of locals. My point was that we wouldn't be having these dueling rallies if out-of-towners would stay home to protest.
"there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with"
Total nonsense, you do realize that there are conservative student organizations at Berkeley?
You do realize there are plenty of conservative students at Berkeley?
hence, "little demand"
Quote:
"publicity stunt...to get a rise"
So now this is a conspiracy by a small group of students? I'm sorry, but Milo, Coulter and Shapiro speak at LOTS of different universities across the country, these speaking engagements are NOT "publicity stunts".
I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, and i'm not sure which student group requested the speaking engagement. I do know that student groups like various "young republican" groups are just extensions of the local party apparatus because i have a buddy that was president of a neighboring county's "young republican" group.
Quote:
The violent protests were there way before the counter protesters came onto the scene.
I didn't suggest otherwise. Those protests were a local response to an unwanted visiting speaker/speakers. The counter-protests are being propped up by outsiders of the same ilk as the dumbshit oregon standoff hillbillies.
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Repertoire89
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Conclusions like "Antifa are just as bad as actual fascists."
ANTIFA attempts to shut down free speech. That is an element of fascist
Agreed, thats pretty damn clear and there needs to be accountability for this. Decentralizing to avoid that accountability is a deception as far as Im concerned.
Repeatedly and violently disrupting free speech makes this organization a terrorist organization, especially as that seems to be their only tennant "non-platform" (PC for violent intimidation aka terrorism)
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The Ecstatic
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Every single political group on the planet has elements that overreact to dissenting speech.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24459123 - 07/05/17 12:27 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Conclusions like "Antifa are just as bad as actual fascists."
Or its fraternal twin: "the people who call out racism are the real racists."
In many cases those statements have lots of evidence and validity behind them.
In many cases, priests rape children.
Is it fair for me to go around saying Catholics are child rapists?
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lowbrow
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Every single political group on the planet has elements that overreact to dissenting speech.
ANTIFA appears to be a major culprit and your not owning up to the fact that they attempt to shut down free speech.
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Amanita86 said:
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lowbrow
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
In many cases, priests rape children.
Is it fair for me to go around saying Catholics are child rapists?
Your not making sense. Nobody said every member of ANTIFA participated in the riots and civil rights violations. Just the ones that showed up.
Edited by lowbrow (07/05/17 01:18 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Every single political group on the planet has elements that overreact to dissenting speech.
ANTIFA appears to be a major culprit and your not owning up to the fact that they attempt to shut down free speech.
Appears to be != is.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: lowbrow] 1
#24459260 - 07/05/17 01:36 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
In many cases, priests rape children.
Is it fair for me to go around saying Catholics are child rapists?
Your not making sense. Nobody said every member of ANTIFA participated in the riots and civil rights violations. Just the ones that showed up.
So when you say things like Antifa is trying to shut down free speech, what exactly are you saying?
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The Ecstatic
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From what I gather, Antifa is the only group we're allowed to paint with a broad brush.
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qman
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
No, I'm saying that there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with, which was the whole purpose of the publicity stunt in the first place, to get a rise out of the vast majority of locals. My point was that we wouldn't be having these dueling rallies if out-of-towners would stay home to protest.
"there is little demand for Milo or Ann in that town to begin with"
Total nonsense, you do realize that there are conservative student organizations at Berkeley?
You do realize there are plenty of conservative students at Berkeley?
hence, "little demand"
Quote:
"publicity stunt...to get a rise"
So now this is a conspiracy by a small group of students? I'm sorry, but Milo, Coulter and Shapiro speak at LOTS of different universities across the country, these speaking engagements are NOT "publicity stunts".
I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, and i'm not sure which student group requested the speaking engagement. I do know that student groups like various "young republican" groups are just extensions of the local party apparatus because i have a buddy that was president of a neighboring county's "young republican" group.
Quote:
The violent protests were there way before the counter protesters came onto the scene.
I didn't suggest otherwise. Those protests were a local response to an unwanted visiting speaker/speakers. The counter-protests are being propped up by outsiders of the same ilk as the dumbshit oregon standoff hillbillies.
"little demand"
So minorities don't deserve a voice?
"not sure what student group requested the speaking engagement"
It's immaterial, it could be BLM's, it doesn't matter.
"dumbshit...hillbillies"
Reported for geographical bigotry.
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lowbrow
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
So when you say things like Antifa is trying to shut down free speech, what exactly are you saying?
That they're trying to limit the points they don't like by not allowing dialogue.
Ya know, trying to shut down free speech.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
Edited by lowbrow (07/05/17 02:36 PM)
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ballsalsa
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24459417 - 07/05/17 02:43 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Those protests were a local response to an unwanted visiting speaker/speakers. The counter-protests are being propped up by outsiders of the same ilk as the dumbshit oregon standoff hillbillies.
"dumbshit...hillbillies"
Reported for geographical bigotry.
report away. I stand by my statement.
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akira_akuma
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they not only disrupt and destroy, they beat people up, dox people, assign rank and file troop support at rallies, and they've been defrauding the people since before Trump was elected (Nazi symbols in front of a church, found to be hoax, ect ect)
Edited by akira_akuma (08/31/17 12:56 PM)
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chibiabos
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They'll probably stop after they start getting shot and the courts start coming to the conclusion that dinging chunks of bone, viscera, meat and vital organs out of somebody is a proportionate response to having them hurl explosives at you.
Oh yeah, throwing firecrackers at somebody doesn't make you look cheeky. It just makes you look like a fucking idiot who really wants to be shot to death.
Edited by chibiabos (07/05/17 03:07 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
So when you say things like Antifa is trying to shut down free speech, what exactly are you saying?
That they're trying to limit the points they don't like by not allowing dialogue.
Ya know, trying to shut down free speech.
So it WOULD be fair to say Catholics are trying to rape children, then.
We can use a small minority of one group to stereotype the whole.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
So when you say things like Antifa is trying to shut down free speech, what exactly are you saying?
that people under the ANTIFA banner/moniker are trying to influence the free speech of others, and not JUST infuriating everyone, but RESTRICTING people's MOVEMENT (which is also unconstitutional; Enlil, would this fall under free speech? freedom of expression?) with their drums and their "ANTI-FASISTA!" rabbl-rousing [by SURROUNDING PEOPLE and shouting in their face, trying to COVER THEIR CAMERA (you have RIGHTS to film, again; Enlil- this falls under freedom of speech, right? freedom of the press), and then they act all glib and/or they strive to get angrier until...], oh yeah, and they attack people. that's pretty stifling for free speech, obviously, because who else are they attacking but people? and for what? just being there. like a mob.
Just like Trump supporters, the most loud and violent and attention-seeking ones get the publicity.
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akira_akuma
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yeah, right and they are stupid as well, i mean, loud-mouthed ones are arrogant and stupid sometimes, but the ones who'd resort violence- as idiots go- are big-time. they should be stopped.
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Cinnamon
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Its really cause staff is in favor of all left wing lunatics so moving this to politics or conspiracy is a way of putting down opposition to the anti free speech crowd.
The snowflakes in the Pub can't handle people disagreeing with their liberal positions, but as a result traffic is now down in the Pub as viewers don't have any real content to read.
So "the vibe" is now "positive" but viewership is down, why am I not surprised? BTW, I'm assuming traffic is down because it's dead in there now, I don't think it's a wild speculation on my part.
its driving traffic to political discussion, but that's a double edged sword. You had been becoming gradually more credible until so many far-rightwingers started showing up. the viktors and eminences have been a bad influence on you. You've been running with a bad crowd, Q. It's not that I'm mad, I'm just disappointed.
We used to have real discussions around here sometimes. People would make claims that they could back up with sources. We might not ever agree, but at least we would have something to think about. Now everyone is too busy shouting slogans at each other. Even the Shroomery has fallen victim to the trumpification of the political discourse.
This is a bit unfair ballsalsa.
This forum has been dominated by liberals for so long that qman and any other conservative would be an exceptional minority.
it comes off like you miss the days where the sheer amount of liberals made him keep quiet about what he thinks so as not to be ridiculed by half this website, ergo fall in line and tow the narrative.
That might not be what you are intending but it's how it came across to me at least.
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ballsalsa
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I don't think it is unfair at all.
When ZiG died, Q started to try to pick up the slack and become the respected conservative voice around here. He was making reasoned arguments. Even when it was just outlandishly clownish caricatures like HU and burgerbrain, qman had too much dignity to throw in with them whole-hog, and seemed to attempt to keep a level of sophistication to differentiate himself from their buffoonery. But with guys like viktor around, smart enough to cover their belligerent arguments with a thin veneer of wit, he's been backsliding.
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Enlil
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This forum has long had more conservatives than liberals, although the liberals have usually been more intelligent.
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qman
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
I don't think it is unfair at all.
When ZiG died, Q started to try to pick up the slack and become the respected conservative voice around here. He was making reasoned arguments. Even when it was just outlandishly clownish caricatures like HU and burgerbrain, qman had too much dignity to throw in with them whole-hog, and seemed to attempt to keep a level of sophistication to differentiate himself from their buffoonery. But with guys like viktor around, smart enough to cover their belligerent arguments with a thin veneer of wit, he's been backsliding.
I don't represent conservatism because I'm not a conservative, I could make a very long list of positions that are the polar opposite of mainstream conservative ideology. Myself and Zig actually disagreed on plenty of different issues.
"he's been backsliding"
How many people who voted for Trump have called out his bullshit like I have? 
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ballsalsa
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24460406 - 07/05/17 09:26 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'll give you that.
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ballsalsa
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I'm not saying this stuff to troll you. I'm saying it because i respect your opinion, and i liked the way your posting style was trending a month ago. It just seems like having radicals around has been radicalizing you.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
yeah, right and they are stupid as well, i mean, loud-mouthed ones are arrogant and stupid sometimes, but the ones who'd resort violence- as idiots go- are big-time. they should be stopped.
Of course.
I just dont think we should equivocate someone punching Richard Spencer with someone suckerpunching a dude at a Truml rally simply for being black.
One of those punchees was asking for it way more than the other.
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Eminence
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 Really? Are you sure it was "just because he was black"? You know..not every altercation that involves a black man and a white man has to do with race. There's been a few out of line people on the right too, but not nearly as many. Even if that attack was based off of race alone, how much do you want to bet that more people at a Trump rally would defend the black guy as opposed to how many Antifa would defend the numerous people that were attacked by them for no good reason?
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The Ecstatic
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How much do I want to bet? Seriously?
Theres no way to know, but considering theres about 30 million Trump supporters and not even one tenth the Antifa, youre probably right. But missing the point nonetheless.
How many people would advocate punching Richard Spencer compared to that black man?
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Eminence
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Ok, percentage wise then..there'd be a much higher percentage of Trump supporters defending some black dude getting punched just because he was black, compared to the amount of Antifa that would defend some random woman getting maced or hit in the face with a flag pole just for standing in line at a speech they didn't like. And no not seriously, it's an expression.
And probably more people would advocate punching Spencer even though I don't think he's ever advocated violence towards anyone. I could be wrong but I've never heard about it. I'm pretty sure the black guy you're talking about was disrupting a rally and some old white guy just got angry and lashed out like an idiot as he was getting escorted out. It's easy to say it's "just because he was black." People eat that sensational BS up.
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The Ecstatic
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As easy as it is to say antifa are fascists who hate free speech
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qman
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
As easy as it is to say antifa are fascists who hate free speech
Are there any positive aspects to ANTIFA that some of us might be missing? Every time someone points out what the members of this group does in public, your reply is "it's not representation of the group as a whole", what are these great things from ANTIFA that everyone is missing?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24461412 - 07/06/17 08:38 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think theyre a bunch of idiots with no message and thats why they have people taking up their flag with the express purpose of being violent idiots.
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Mad_Larkin
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Cinnamon
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
How much do I want to bet? Seriously?
Theres no way to know, but considering theres about 30 million Trump supporters and not even one tenth the Antifa, youre probably right. But missing the point nonetheless.
How many people would advocate punching Richard Spencer compared to that black man?
Depends how much of a cunt the black guy was being at the time.
neither is warranted but you're race baiting here unless you can prove he was punched solely for being black.
How about ANTIFA punching a black guy?
Tit for tat
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Enlil
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Why does it have to be "solely" for being black? If the color of his skin played any role at all, it's still racist.
By the way, that video shows just the opposite of what you claim it shows.
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Cinnamon
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461452 - 07/06/17 09:03 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Why does it have to be "solely" for being black? If the color of his skin played any role at all, it's still racist.
Exactly, but it seems to be falling under the same logic that claims any black person shot by cops it must be an inherent race issue.
I need to see proof it was unprovoked or slurs were use prior/during, any indication it was racially motivated and I'll retract my position.
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Enlil
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The absence of slurs doesn't make it not racially motivated.
And that video shows the black guy punching the antifa dude...not the other way around.
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Eminence
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461462 - 07/06/17 09:10 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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The black guy just hit the trans guy back. Also, how do you decide something is racist if there isn't clear evidence of racism anyway?
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Cinnamon
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461465 - 07/06/17 09:13 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
The absence of slurs doesn't make it not racially motivated.
And that video shows the black guy punching the antifa dude...not the other way around.
how the fuck would you determine it's racially motivated or not based on no evidence for either?
Are we all just pretending every black guy that gets punched is down to racism?
And uhh.. what?Uhh..
what?
4min 15 seconds?
Pretty clear the dudette swung first.
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Enlil
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Hitting someone back is called battery. The video doesn't show him being hit, though. Even if it did, it wouldn't be self-defense. It would be battery. I watched that video frame by frame and saw no swing by the white person. When the black person attacks, the white guy isn't doing anything.
How do I decide? From all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the event. If I see a black man hung at a klan rally, I don't need to hear racial slurs to infer it's racially motivated.
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Cinnamon
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461483 - 07/06/17 09:20 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Hitting someone back is called battery. The video doesn't show him being hit, though. Even if it did, it wouldn't be self-defense. It would be battery.
How do I decide? From all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the event. If I see a black man hung at a klan rally, I don't need to hear racial slurs to infer it's racially motivated.
I watched that video frame by frame and saw no swing by the white person.
Who gives a shit what it would be called, no one is arguing self defense or not.
It's very clear the black guy got hit, to which he replied "is that the best you got?" and then hit back.
Frame by frame... second angle.
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Enlil
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So you admit that the video shows a black guy hitting an ANTIFA dude.
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Cinnamon
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461494 - 07/06/17 09:24 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by Cinnamon (07/06/17 09:29 AM)
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Enlil
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Who cares who swung first? The fact is that both of those dudes are violent criminals. It's not even clear that the white dude even connected with his punch.
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Cinnamon
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461519 - 07/06/17 09:37 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Who cares who swung first? The fact is that both of those dudes are violent criminals.
You care who swung first, as per your response to the video.
Quote:
And that video shows the black guy punching the antifa dude...not the other way around.
Quote:
I watched that video frame by frame and saw no swing by the white person. When the black person attacks, the white guy isn't doing anything.
And the stealth edit
Quote:
So you admit that the video shows a black guy hitting an ANTIFA dude.
I see a video of a dudette swinging on a black guy, which was exactly why I posted the video initially.
Quote:
How about ANTIFA punching a black guy?
[Insert video]
It was you who asserted the video wasn't demonstrating my point, then falsely claimed frame by frame you didn't witness what everyone else witnessed.
Let's not change the subject here and get caught in legality.
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Enlil
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But that's not what you said. You said it showed the antifa guy punching the black guy. I don't think it does. I think it shows the antifa guy swinging at the black guy and missing and then the black guy punching the antifa guy.
This looks like a clear miss to me:
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Cinnamon
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461565 - 07/06/17 09:49 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Who cares who swung first? The fact is that both of those dudes are violent criminals.
You care who swung first, as per your response to the video.
Quote:
And that video shows the black guy punching the antifa dude...not the other way around.
Quote:
I watched that video frame by frame and saw no swing by the white person. When the black person attacks, the white guy isn't doing anything.
Quote:
Enlil said:
But that's not what you said. You said it showed the antifa guy punching the black guy. I don't think it does. I think it shows the antifa guy swinging at the black guy and missing and then the black guy punching the antifa guy.
This looks like a clear miss to me:
Looks like it connected in my previously posted shot, then traverses downward along the jawline.
Come on dude...
Prove to me the black guy connected with his, for what I see it was the flag pole that connected, not the black guys fist.
The second punch is obscured by the flag, therefore black guy never connected with either punch and is absconded.
Should we commission experts to analyze the motion of the black guy in relation to the speed of the dudette's punch?
How about we request the police reports and testimony of all who were there, let's have video analysts break it down and give their conclusion.
I suppose the black guy was just acting, his brain was so quick he could act out the reverse motion in flawless fashion to give the impression he was punched, knowing the camera angle would be just right to obscure the fist IN HIS FACE for those microseconds.
Actor of the year tbh.
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Enlil
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The black guy clearly connected, and you're being intentionally obtuse about it. The white guy may have, but I don't think it's clear in the photos.
Still, if you wanna go Rodney King on this and do this with experts in open court, come at me, bro. I'll fucking drop $50k just to prove a point on the internet....
In any case, your video 100% proves that black people are bad and white people are good. It also proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that 100% of ANTIFA supporters are fine people without whom the world would be an ugly place.
I think we can both agree on this.
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461583 - 07/06/17 09:57 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
But that's not what you said. You said it showed the antifa guy punching the black guy. I don't think it does. I think it shows the antifa guy swinging at the black guy and missing and then the black guy punching the antifa guy.
This looks like a clear miss to me:
so if someone takes out a gun, shoots at you and misses, and you shoot back and kill him, that makes you a violent criminal?
why don't you understand the concept of self defense? 
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lowbrow
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
As easy as it is to say antifa are fascists who hate free speech
Their actions speak for themselves.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Enlil
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Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:
why don't you understand the concept of self defense?
It sounds like you don't.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: qman]
#24461616 - 07/06/17 10:13 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Are there any positive aspects to ANTIFA that some of us might be missing?
Community defence against violent fascists?
Since Trumps inauguration, the waters have become very muddied. Legitimate fascists have intentionally stopped using their historical hate symbols as part of a campaign to garner greater public acceptance. For example: the National Socialist Movement, a major neo-Nazi umbrella group, declared its intent to stop using the swastika. NSM stated it has "every intention to bring our Party... into the halls of government here in the United States, and to do that we must reach more of the public. The masses believe exactly as we do, but have steered clear of us due to our use of the swastika. Your Party Platform remains the same, for Party remains unchanged, it is a cosmetic overhaul only." (I'm not going to link to their site but it was published on November 4th, 2016 and easy to verify). Another example, from the younger /pol/ delegation, is the "just trolling liberals" claim; aka the "it was just a prank" defense. This has given rise to, among other things, the Kekistan flag, directly based off the Reichskriegsflagge (Nazi war flag) but not quite an undeniable hate symbol.
So now we have groups of legitimate fascists who are commingled with your average non-fashy Republican/conservative/Trump supporter. When antifascists respond with force, the claims that Antifa is targeting anyone they disagree with is only too easy to make. Antifascists in the USA have clued into this and tactics are already changing. If you note, by and large "antifa" has stopped taking the bait to engage in street brawls at these various Trump rallies and free speech protests.
But beyond the recent events, which seem to be when the general public has become aware of antifascist action, antifa has successfully countered less tenuous incarnations of fascist organizing and street violence.
If you are curious, probably the largest incarnation (until now) of this movement in the North America occured in the 1990's in response to an increasingly violent neo-Nazi skinhead subculture amongst the punk and oi! music scenes. This occurred within a subculture and was against fascists who wore their beliefs openly, so it never garnered the same media attention we see currently.
Beyond that, antifascism has a longer history in Europe and the UK. From the days of the National Front, to 1980's Paris, to modern day Greece and the Golden Dawn. Antifascists have demonstrably had positive effects on their communities.
Also, remember, the antifa label is generally only used when engaging in militant confrontation with fascists. These same people may be taking part in other, less militant, activities (and the anarchists I know definitely do) and simply don't attach the "antifa" label to these actions.
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Repertoire89
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Neo-Nazis have freedom of speech and assembly as well
No one has the right to violently disrupt a lawful assembly, nor should they
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lowbrow
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461627 - 07/06/17 10:18 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
So you admit that the video shows a black guy hitting an ANTIFA dude.
Self defense.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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schwarg
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Anyone who thinks the National Socialist party could garner any sort of sizeable public support here in the United States is deluding themselves. The biggest non major party, the Libertarian party, can barely reach 3% in a national election. The only way those kinds of policies would come into effect is if they are implemented into one of the two major parties, and we've seen them both change quite a bit lately.
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Enlil
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Clearly you don't understand self defense either.
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lowbrow
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461661 - 07/06/17 10:35 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Looks like self defense to me. Stand your ground is a thing. I think there was plenty of fear the duddette might of continued the exchange.
Definitely self defense.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Enlil
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Only in your layman's opinion. Certainly not under the laws of any state.
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461681 - 07/06/17 10:46 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Mad_Larkin said:
why don't you understand the concept of self defense?
It sounds like you don't.
all you have is "no u"? shame.
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Enlil
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Yeah, some people engage in discussions. Others just call people "king tard." The latter doesn't usually get more than a dismissive one-liner from me.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
As easy as it is to say antifa are fascists who hate free speech
Their actions speak for themselves.
No, the actions of a few speak for the many.
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461690 - 07/06/17 10:49 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Yeah, some people engage in discussions. Others just call people "king tard." The latter doesn't usually get more than a dismissive one-liner from me.
sounds like you know you're in the wrong and can't defend your position 
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Enlil
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Lol, okay. Keep telling yourself that.
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461701 - 07/06/17 10:56 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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there's still time to make a cogent point bro
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Enlil
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Exactly. So what are you waiting for?
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461754 - 07/06/17 11:20 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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i already made my point, it was short and simple, and unlike your sloppy attempts it had the added bonus of actually making sense
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Enlil
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All you did was state an absurd and irrelevant hypothetical followed by an accusation that I don't understand self-defense. If that's what you call a "cogent point", then your rhetoric needs work.
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24461778 - 07/06/17 11:28 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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it was hardly absurd or irrelevent, it was merely a hyperbolic version of the situation you seemed to be having trouble understanding. i thought by exaggerating i might help you along a little. apparently not.
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Enlil
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It was both. There is no gun in the video at all. No one is shot. No one is shot at. No one is killed. The fact that you think it's relevant only shows how little you understand the self-defense framework.
If you make a reasoned argument for self-defense, I'll be glad to respond in kind. You haven't done that, and I suspect you can't/won't.
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shivas.wisdom
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Neo-Nazis have freedom of speech and assembly as well
No one has the right to violently disrupt a lawful assembly, nor should they
And this is where we will disagree, but my view is that this is self-defense; albeit a less direct, pre-emptive form than responding to an immediate physical threat.
At what point can I take someone's threat to do harm to me as sufficient reason to act in defense? If someone says "I'm going to stab you." do I need to wait until I see the knife; perhaps until the first attempt (successful or not) at stabbing has been made; maybe I saw them stab someone else after saying the same thing; or do I need to be personally physically harmed before I can respond in like?
When can we say fascist rhetoric and ideology has made the jump from philosophy to reality? Remember, although there may not currently be a mass coordinated movement of genocide taking place in the USA, fascists are targeting and killing people in a more haphazard way; do we need to wait until a government implemented plan for genocide occurs before we can physically respond? Some may consider that point already too late.
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schwarg
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The USA operates under rule of law. We guarantee an individual's fundamental right to life, aside for the death pentalty. I don't see how that's just going to get thrown out the window to conduct a mass genocide, especially in the information age.
It would take a civil war and a subsequent abandonment of the US constitution to carry out something like that. And that's given the rest of the world doesn't try to intervene.
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Edited by schwarg (07/06/17 12:37 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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But outside of that political conjecture, care to answer the question I pose regarding responding to someone threatening to stab you?
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akira_akuma
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who cares, you are not the law.
*insert Dredd meme here*
i just realized something. if we weren't in the media age...i wouldn't doubt we wouldn've already seen undue warring parties seeking to indemnify themselves their source of "income". all this for beliefs. overarching beliefs that should work in tandem but people are too gummed up with pride to care.
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shivas.wisdom
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That's a lame response that adds nothing to the conversation. I am honestly interested in how you folks decrying antifascist action draw your own personal line in the matter of self-defense. It's not a difficult question, I see no reason for this evasiveness.
Quote:
At what point can I take someone's threat to do harm to me as sufficient reason to act in defense? If someone says "I'm going to stab you." do I need to wait until I see the knife; perhaps until the first attempt (successful or not) at stabbing has been made; maybe I saw them stab someone else after saying the same thing; or do I need to be personally physically harmed before I can respond in like?
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akira_akuma
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this conversation is always given to your "so what do you think punching people in the face when it's not me? is it wrong?" bullcrap. so...whatever. it's nonsense.
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Mad_Larkin
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24462152 - 07/06/17 01:53 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
It was both. There is no gun in the video at all. No one is shot. No one is shot at. No one is killed. The fact that you think it's relevant only shows how little you understand the self-defense framework.
If you make a reasoned argument for self-defense, I'll be glad to respond in kind. You haven't done that, and I suspect you can't/won't.
it's totally relevant. you can kill someone easily with your bare hands. if you are attacked you have the right to take measures to stop the threat. it's that simple.
i'm not interested in your semantic games and "no u" one-upmanship. judging by the thread most people would agree with me (which is why you're attempting to take the contrarian position).
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shivas.wisdom
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My question is clearly trying to ascertain your perceived limits of self-defense. My perspective would be that someone verbally threatening to stab me is enough to garner a physical response, and this extends to my willingness to respond physically to fascist organizing (which in my opinion constitutes an equivalent threat to someone merely talking about stabbing me).
You, and others in this thread, state that fascists should be free to organize; given this difference of opinion, I am curious to see where your own personal limitations to free speech and self-defense are drawn.
I'm not sure how you think your quoted text relates to what I said. Perhaps your conversations with other people have gone in that direction, but in my case physical response to the threat of stabbing would be considered appropriate if it was in response to my own words as well. It's not a one way street. Fortunately, I'm not one to flippantly threaten people.
Why bother giving a non-answer to a question that wasn't even directed at you, if you care so little?
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Repertoire89
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Neo-Nazis have freedom of speech and assembly as well
No one has the right to violently disrupt a lawful assembly, nor should they
And this is where we will disagree, but my view is that this is self-defense; albeit a less direct, pre-emptive form than responding to an immediate physical threat.
At what point can I take someone's threat to do harm to me as sufficient reason to act in defense? If someone says "I'm going to stab you." do I need to wait until I see the knife; perhaps until the first attempt (successful or not) at stabbing has been made; maybe I saw them stab someone else after saying the same thing; or do I need to be personally physically harmed before I can respond in like?
When can we say fascist rhetoric and ideology has made the jump from philosophy to reality? Remember, although there may not currently be a mass coordinated movement of genocide taking place in the USA, fascists are targeting and killing people in a more haphazard way; do we need to wait until a government implemented plan for genocide occurs before we can physically respond? Some may consider that point already too late.
I've had two people pull knives on me this year, in neither case would I have been morally justified to shoot them as there was plenty of room for discussion still. If they advanced or gave any reasonable indication of doing so, then lethal force would instantly be justified.
If the fascists threaten violence, then they should be treated as terrorists and sent to Gitmo, otherwise they can talk about black and jewish conspiracies all they like. That mentality has been defeated in the US and not through violence, its actually fed by violence like the LA Riots or 911
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shivas.wisdom
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Thank you for actually answering,
FYI, when I talk about a physical response, it doesn't necessarily mean a lethal one. I'm not sure if I would condone gunning a person down solely over a threat to stab me, but neither do I condone gunning down groups of fascists attempting to publicly organize.
So would an actionable fascist threat, in your opinion, constitute an indirect threat such as "kill all the jews" or a direct one such as "kill this jew"?
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lowbrow
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Re: ANTIFA [Re: Enlil]
#24462219 - 07/06/17 02:11 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
It was both. There is no gun in the video at all. No one is shot. No one is shot at. No one is killed. The fact that you think it's relevant only shows how little you understand the self-defense framework.
If you make a reasoned argument for self-defense, I'll be glad to respond in kind. You haven't done that, and I suspect you can't/won't.
The mentally ill man threatened the black guy.
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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Repertoire89
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Thank you for actually answering,
FYI, when I talk about a physical response, it doesn't necessarily mean a lethal one. I'm not sure if I would condone gunning a person down solely over a threat to stab me, but neither do I condone gunning down groups of fascists attempting to publicly organize.
So would an actionable fascist threat, in your opinion, constitute an indirect threat such as "kill all the jews" or a direct one such as "kill this jew"?
I definetely condone lethal force if someone attacks you with a knife, even after restraining or disabling them, but not torture. Same goes for unarmed unprovoked strangers.
If someone just says it should be done in private, then I think nothing. If they are suggesting it to a group, then they should be jailed. If plans are made, jail. If plans are set in motion: gitmo or death.
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Repertoire89
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If you're with family (like your kids or wife), I think someone making threats or pulling a knife justifies lethal force. Not sure how that translates.
Its all pretty difficult to determine
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shivas.wisdom
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Yeah and I'm with you there. My experience with antifascist action is that it is mostly focused on preventing the public expression of such ideology.
The main departure is that I don't believe in the effectiveness of the carceral state, nor do I have a desire to rely on police protection. Direct action baby.
Yes, this has the potential to devolve into vigilante lynch mobs - not ideal - but I don't think that the police force is free of fault either. I prefer the option that doesn't reduce my ability to act.
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Repertoire89
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This is why I dont like decentralized groups though, the outliers should never get in the group, or they should be kicked out and disowned by officials from a group. Along with having rules about when one type of action or another is justified.
Violence or disruption though, is impossible to justify in the US atm. There are no centralized violent fascists here, only the occasional drunk skinhead or some such. If we had a serious problem and the gov did nothing about it, then I would definitely condone it being ended by non-government entities, but nothing remotely close to that exists out here and a few racist/fascist groups are on terrorist watch lists
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chibiabos
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Yeah and I'm with you there. My experience with antifascist action is that it is mostly focused on preventing the public expression of such ideology.
The main departure is that I don't believe in the effectiveness of the carceral state, nor do I have a desire to rely on police protection. Direct action baby.
I hope that you enjoy figuring out what "direct action" actually entails, way too late for that knowledge to actually do you any good. This incompetent, childish bullshit is exactly why Antifa is doing way more harm than good. Antifa isn't protecting anything. They're just egging on violent confrontations that they are neither prepared for nor that they appear capable of even comprehending in the first place. I mean jesus, Antifa can't even hit people with a stick the right way. They'd be torn up like thin shit if any of the people they attacked actually knew how to play hit-with-stick. A hot day is probably enough to take out a lot of the people in the Antifa crowd though. Most people (in general) these days appear to be too stupid to even avoid dehydration, left to their own devices.
Antifa must put a lot of effort into finding a way to give the Trumpsters the moral highground, in my opinion. Otherwise it's possible that it just comes naturally to the people who get wrapped up in that crap.
Edited by chibiabos (07/06/17 04:36 PM)
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
If you're with family (like your kids or wife), I think someone making threats or pulling a knife justifies lethal force. Not sure how that translates.
Its all pretty difficult to determine
Yeah...You usually have to put a lot of effort into getting somebody to pull a weapon out on you. This is veering into "twenty-seven ninjas" territory. I say that it's veering in that direction because somehow you've got it in your head that homicide (which will probably end up just being straight up murder) is a proportional response to somebody belching mean, scary words at you. Even if they follow you there are so fucking many ways to deal with it that will:
- Hurt less
and
- Make life a lot less complicated
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I accept your surrender.
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Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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People kill strangers without any provocation all the time.
Its a matter of context, and as far as having to protect kids go, the line is moved. I wasnt afraid when either knife was pulled on me, words were enough to deescalate the situation, but if someone were to threaten my kid and I had reason to take them serious, yeah that may justify lethal force.
Its hard to imagine a scenario where that would be necessary, my point being more that you can take more risks with yourself than with the lives of people you're responsible for.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
People kill strangers without any provocation all the time.
Very rarely.
And acting like having a weapon somehow reduces danger when you're doing risky things means that your family is not safer on account of you being armed and willing kill somebody. Having a gun isn't going to stop somebody from ambushing you. Fortunately you're pretty unlikely to be ambushed. Your more likely to shoot your dick off than you are to be ambushed.
Edited by chibiabos (07/06/17 04:24 PM)
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Quote:
chibiabos said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
People kill strangers without any provocation all the time.
Very rarely.
In civilian US maybe, I never limited the scope of context.
This is a general moral question, which could cover genocidal massacres to terrorists, muggers and serial killers
People kill without provocation all the time in the grand scheme of things, if you want to dismiss the possibility, why discuss the subject at all? We were talking about potentially violent encounters.
As far as gun control, make another thread, this is already straying off topic enough.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum
Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
In civilian US maybe
Pour vous.
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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You know there are courses for reading comprehension out there, you could be reading adult literature in only a few years.
Yes there is a world out there, the holocaust was real, so was the genocide in Rawanda and 911, none of those people asked for it. Not to mention your every day mugging gone wrong.
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