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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: LizardWizard]
#24750080 - 10/31/17 02:33 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ohh I guess that does make sense, indeed they don't have much of a stem, the ones I see in stores. I'd be mostly curious about more obscure Pleurotus species but I have no idea if any others are very tasty and worth going out of your way for.
Saw baby king oysters at the market today but I couldn't make out what they called it. I've seen some widely varying names for king oysters to begin with..
Oysters are nice but just very common and I am very into novelty... almost makes me forget that Oysters taste good IMO. White button mushrooms though I actually dislike the taste of, and not because they are the #1 most common of all here. If there are other gourmet mushrooms much like those I'd like to know so at least I don't get my hopes up growing em or something.. 
Do Fly Agarics taste similarly scallopy as Lion's Mane? My own LM doesn't have that much taste unfortunately but I was told it probably has something to do with my high CO2 levels (hopefully that is in the past). Are there no Amanitas that have no GABAergic compounds nor ones that slowly molest your liver that taste like A. Muscaria? In any case I have a policy that I don't eat mushrooms with toxic lookalikes or in a family with very toxic ones, especially if they don't seem to be worth the risk.
Do you guys think any Russulas are worth IDing and munching on for example?
Thnx ferather Will post pics if I have something to show... right now not much more than my martha and LM / Bear's Heads. Came up with a good risotto recipe for the Hericium!
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower




Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,688
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: Solipsis]
#24750151 - 10/31/17 03:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not much of a stem is the same for Ostreatus and Pulmonarius, it's the Kings that have a very meaty stem and no real shelf. Eryngii is what they call them, from Pleurotus Eryngii. They grow as a parasite on the roots of Eryngium Campestre, a thistle species.
The small ones from the store, ime, don't taste very great. Growing out fresh Kings to full size should be worth the effort.
Hericium is not really scallopy. It's really more between lobster and regular button mushrooms in taste, and very lobstery in texture. There is an edible amanita that tastes very similar to the fly agaric, but it only grows in California and parts of Oregon if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember the name right now. I think Amanita Caesaria would taste the same as well, but it's really rare, you'd really have to go south for it to be possible to find it, and even then chances are you won't for the first few years. It's a highly prized edible. Maybe in some gourmet markets in the more Southern European countries.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower




Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,688
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: LizardWizard]
#24750156 - 10/31/17 03:24 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wonder about Russula's as well. The most likely to be interesting are probably Russula Esculenta (or Aurea) and Russula Vesca.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
Edited by LizardWizard (10/31/17 03:27 PM)
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: LizardWizard]
#24750255 - 10/31/17 04:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pulmonariuus have very good tender stems. Just short shelf life.
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Steevo
Just a cog in the death wheel



Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 2,702
Loc: Here and There
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: Quadman]
#24750271 - 10/31/17 04:31 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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LizardWizard
GnomeGrower




Registered: 01/07/15
Posts: 13,688
Loc: the parking lot
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: Quadman]
#24750290 - 10/31/17 04:40 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not saying the stems aren't tasteful, I'm saying there's not a lot of stem there, the stems are small in relation to the shelves, in contrast to Kings, where it's almost all stem and no shelf.
-------------------- The best things in life can be smelled on one's fingers.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: The Gourmet Cultivation Discussion Thread [Re: Steevo]
#24750330 - 10/31/17 05:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those antlers are beasts!
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Data dump:
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Cellulose takes a while to decay and release carbon, in an enriched state, growth increases in potential over time. Depending on the level of enrichment, growth will indicate total quality of fruit mass and total yield.
Note: Wood also suffers from a low nitrogen content, paper has a slightly better end ratio.
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This is WBS onto WL-Tek @ 0.2% nitrogen:

And this is WL-Tek @ 1.2% nitrogen:

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Beneficial bacteria, improves mycelial growth in less time:

Without beneficial bacteria it takes longer:

The improved decay speeds up colonization, and adds defenses, however reduces total fruiting yield. The best end result was when grain spawn was used at 10%+ onto enriched paper-wood.
This due to the starch, which is faster to decay and release nutrients.
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I suggest 1.2 - 2.4% nitrogen or roughly 20:1 carbon-nitrogen. And using clean grain spawn, as it takes 2-3 weeks.
Paper to paper, without aid, takes 2 months.
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Lignin-other can also be used instead of starch or sugar. However lignin can cause mold to germinate.


50/50 Paper pellets + pine pellets, paper spawn.



Sugar can be used if working aseptically.
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Working with T-Gel antibacterial agar, and wood pegs:
T-Gel agar uses no added starch or sugar, laccase enzymes and the mycelium produce sugars via oxidization.
Here is oyster, strong enough to "selectively" devour mold, and a bacterial competitor. This is infected WBS (wild bird seed) and T-Gel agar (modified camera settings).

 ---- Also, green mold is a wood loving mycelium, see some pics here, it will therefor germinate on pretty much any substrate supporting germination. In my above pictures, its producing soluble food via enzymes, so not only is it being devoured, but it's also attracting oyster growth. The oyster will produce the same enzymes as the mold (both wood loving, and both are primary decomposers).
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Here are some images of oyster oxidizing T-Gel (extra strong) using laccase.
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Ideal for cleaning lignicolous mycelium. Caution: Can germinate spores.
Risk factor, exposed: Low.
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Wood, untreated is about 50% carbon (from cellulose, lignin, other), and 0.1% nitrogen: [500:1] = bad yield, weak-slow growth. All wood loving types benefit from the addition of missing, low nutrients, wood has a very low nitrogen ratio (cold).
Many species can be picky about what proteins they detect, sometimes in specific format. Oysters will trap nematodes, and digest them as a source of protein (nitrogen).
The most universal format, is soluble ammoniacal or ureic nitrogen. Dung contains both ammoniacal and ureic nitrogen.

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Manure (decayed foods), note the three main nutrients, contains both ammoniacal and ureic nitrogen, high water content.

Alternative sources, note matching nutrients, plus many more:

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Straw analysis:

Wood analysis:

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Paper pellets:

Basic nutrient list, plant fiber based: Carbon, Potassium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Chromium, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Silicon.
If you don't add fast carbon (starch, sugar, lignin, other solubles), you don't get contamination germinating. Using spawn, you have two potential options, enriched and 10%+ spawn, or 50/50 unchanged.
Convert spawn as, roughly: -55.55% carbs = carbon, -84% proteins = nitrogen. Convert paper as, roughly: -64.55% dry = carbon, -99.8% dry = nitrogen.
20:1 for best yield, 40-60:1 for faster colonization.
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If that fails, seek bacteria, or specific woods.
Also wood is acidic, check the best pH.

For live oyster mycelium, pH 7-8 produced the most vigorous growth. Calcium carbonate, powdered, can be used to increase pH.
Most acidic materials decay above pH 6.5-7.
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Multiple data sites stated an increase in laccase production with the addition of wheat bran.
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Rough carbon to nitrogen guide:
Wood products: Contain about 50% carbon, 0.1% nitrogen, this is a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 500:1 (0.1 x 10, until 1%, 50 x 10 = 500). Paper products: Contain about 40% carbon, 0.2% nitrogen, this is a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 200:1 (0.2 x 5, until 1%, 40 x 5 = 200).
Wheat bran, example:
Here is wheat bran, with total nitrogen of 2.560g per 100g. Wood has about 0.1g of nitrogen per 100g.
100g wood + 100g bran = 200g, 0.1 + 2.560 = 2.660, 2.660 / 2.00 = 1.33% nitrogen. 100g wood + 75g bran = 175g, 0.1 + 1.920 = 2.020, 2.020 / 1.75 = 1.15% nitrogen. 100g wood + 50g bran = 150g, 0.1 + 1.280 = 1.380, 1.380 / 1.50 = 0.92% nitrogen. 100g wood + 25g bran = 125g, 0.1 + 0.640 = 0.740, 0.740 / 1.25 = 0.59% nitrogen.
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Some species-strains may like nitrogen rich leaves with their wood. An example would be tea leaves, nice and rich in nutrients.
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Wood ash, composition data here.
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Pinning, my interpretation:
Medium-High O2: Surface, and many other reasons. Temperature: Biological rate vs water loss. Humidity: Fruit bodies supported.
Light: Catalyze materials.
Materials leeching: Alter the C:N ratio, add nutrients, lower the pH. Wood ash, from fire: The same as above, but increases pH.
Increasing the pH causes some materials to decay.
Wood ash is full of oxides (oxygen).
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Drayce
Spidget Finner



Registered: 10/07/17
Posts: 260
Loc: Gaia
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Holy shit!! That's a big load of data. Charts, numbers, graphs and whatnot its in there....
But hey- Ferather: What do You grow on paper pellets, besides Oysters?
I've been using 'hardwood fuel pellets' because a 40# bag was <$5. Supplemented with some 'organic wheat bran' and that's about it....
But if paper is faster maybe, or easier maybe, or less likely to contam maybe...? And I learned a new word today: lignicolous. Thanks.
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LemurLemur
Pray for Boog



Registered: 01/30/17
Posts: 6,004
Loc: Drinking on the roof
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Re: Exports [Re: Drayce]
#24753383 - 11/01/17 10:52 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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My reishi is in love with paper/verm mush
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 (when my data is fast play Lemur in chess at chess.com)[ [gradient:#D40B29,#18C418]Any1 expecting a trade from me i havent forgot about you pinky promise, i fr promise shits just shit rt now[/gradient]
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Drayce
Spidget Finner



Registered: 10/07/17
Posts: 260
Loc: Gaia
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Reishi is next on the list... Blue oyster (black) pins growing on straw:
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Exports [Re: Drayce]
#24753793 - 11/02/17 07:41 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am curious of what spawn ratio you used. I inoculated some oats with BO 2 days ago and have 1/2 inch+ of growth off the agar into the grains all ready. As soon as they are ready I want to spawn to pasteurized straw that I have in the garage.
-------------------- JOIN THE POW WOW
Edited by TheMadHatter420 (11/02/17 07:57 AM)
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Steevo
Just a cog in the death wheel



Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 2,702
Loc: Here and There
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Those are some beautiful blues there Drayce I streaked ham’s pink oysters on agar the other day and I have a jar of oyster spawn from a grocery store fruit I cloned ready to go. I made up some bags I’m going to test out. I soaked oats overnight and used the water to hydrate fuel pellets and wheat pellets. I made 4 bags 1ea of supplemented fuel pellets and oats, wheat pellets and oats and 1ea without the grain. I’m planning on using the wheat pellet bags for oysters and was hoping a shiitake I cloned would be viable but theres nothing going on with those plates yet
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Drayce
Spidget Finner



Registered: 10/07/17
Posts: 260
Loc: Gaia
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: I am curious of what spawn ratio you used. I inoculated some oats with BO 2 days ago and have 1/2 inch+ of growth off the agar into the grains all ready. As soon as they are ready I want to spawn to pasteurized straw that I have in the garage.
For the Blue's bag'o'straw? IDK. I did the 'let do straw' method, only I used an old galvanized metal water cooler (like those gatorade coolers, but 1950's). Boiled my biggest pot full w/water and pushed as much rinsed straw I could until submerged. Put plate on top, closed lid. About 1:5 I'd guess.
I don't follow any specific techniques, just ballpark. Just like the vid, I threw a handful of Hydrated lime, hot water and let sit.
The notes I DO have are: 140-160F for 60-90min. 1 cup Lime to 10 gallons. that's it.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Exports [Re: Drayce]
#24754577 - 11/02/17 01:36 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok, yea I was just looking for rough ratio. I know we can get away with a much lower ratio than say cubes because the oysters are far more aggressive and colonize much faster.
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Drayce
Spidget Finner



Registered: 10/07/17
Posts: 260
Loc: Gaia
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Since It was an still is my first BO grow, I bought `2.5# spawn for $10 from a secret vendor named Tony.
Dumped the whole thing in, and my large myco bag/loggish container weighs approx 12#. I didn't weigh anything, just went by Tony's info and RR's info. And every other gazillion links to about the same procedure using different tactics according to scale. I wasn't about try heating up a 55gallon drum or building some apparatus... lol. And I bought pre-chopped and 'cleaned' straw too. 'cuz I'm lazy and live metro.
Edited by Drayce (11/02/17 01:51 PM)
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Exports [Re: Drayce]
#24754804 - 11/02/17 03:15 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey what every works. I totally understand buying pre chopped straw, specially if you live in the city.
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CapnCrown



Registered: 03/30/17
Posts: 111
Loc: Phoenix Arizona USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
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Re: Exports [Re: Drayce]
#24754827 - 11/02/17 03:26 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I used one quart of colonized milo per super packed 3 gallon bucket with pasteurized wheat straw and got a few pounds per bucket. worked well, but we're switching to poly tubing instead of buckets. I was wanting to source some wheat straw that's been used as bedding for horses.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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I cant wait to watch some blue oysters fruit.
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Lions mane is loving these cooler temps. Today's pick.
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Edited by Quadman (11/02/17 03:59 PM)
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