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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2440966 - 03/16/04 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
Who knows how the world would have evolved without money.



It did evolve without money for the longest time. However, specialization and a division of labor necessitated the development of a universally accepted medium of exchange.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2440972 - 03/16/04 10:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Good points! true that, fuck barter too!

Shroomism said it best:

Quote:

Or imagine if everyone just provided their services free of charge, and everyone got what they needed for free.




let's do that then, everything has no value. Lose "value" as a concept entirely. :thumbup: :sun:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2440975 - 03/16/04 10:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Money isn't the root of all evil. Advertising is.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2440982 - 03/16/04 10:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
Good points! true that, fuck barter too!

Shroomism said it best:

Quote:

Or imagine if everyone just provided their services free of charge, and everyone got what they needed for free.






Please! Lots of people have shitty jobs, and the only reason they do them is for the money. I have a friend in Sacramento who would quit his job at WalMart immediately if he didn't need the money.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2440983 - 03/16/04 10:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Three prime colors: red, blue, yellow.

Three prime evils: money, government, military


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2440987 - 03/16/04 10:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

To clarify my point lets imagine a society that functions somewhat like this.
You do your job, whatever it is that you do, based on what you choose to do.. and it is a job that in some way or another, benefits the community. When people need your service or product, they come to you, and get it for free.

Since you provide this service to the community, when you need food, or shoes, or whatever, you go to similar places and get them for free. If everyone is providing their services to the community for free, everyone gets stuff for free, just by contributing to the community. The only way it could possibly work is if everyone in the community was contributing to everyone else in the community. All your 'basic' needs like food, water, shelter, clothing and such, should be a given.. 'extras' could be acquired through the barter system or similar means of trade. It's pretty simple really.


--------------------


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2440996 - 03/16/04 10:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

As I pointed out, there are certain jobs that no sane person would do if they didn't need the money. Try finding a proctologist who will do that job just out of the goodness of their heart.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2441002 - 03/16/04 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Please! Lots of people have shitty jobs, and the only reason they do them is for the money. I have a friend in Sacramento who would quit his job at WalMart immediately if he didn't need the money.





So we abolish money, give everyone whatever they want out of Walmart for free, and set up a new way of doing things.

Of course such a change would involve a lot! You could not just remove money and expect things to stay the same, only better.

We would need an entire makeover of the way we as human beings do things. But it would be worth it and insane things like plants and fungi being illegal would NEVER happen again.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2441015 - 03/16/04 10:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Of course such a change would involve a lot! You could not just remove money and expect things to stay the same, only better.



Face it. There's some jobs that nobody would want to do if they didn't get paid. Garbage man, proctologist, plumber, etc. And on what basis are you making your claim that things could only get better? I see them getting a lot worse.

Quote:

We would need an entire makeover of the way we as human beings do things. But it would be worth it and insane things like plants and fungi being illegal would NEVER happen again.



How can you possibly make a correlation between a lack of currency and the legality of drugs?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2441016 - 03/16/04 10:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
As I pointed out, there are certain jobs that no sane person would do if they didn't need the money.




There is absolutely no shortage of insane people in this world.

Quote:

Try finding a proctologist who will do that job just out of the goodness of their heart.




I'm sure you could find a couple. As long as their are services which need to be provided.. there will be people willing to do them. Whether it is because they need the money to survive, or because they are getting free healthcare, food, clothes, shelter, etc because of it..or simply because they like to help other people. In the first case, most people working minimum wage dead end shithole jobs (which there are millions of) cannot afford to live on their own, pay for healthcare, pay for food, let alone all the other 'neccessities' for life in modern soceity. You give them everything they need to live well, and they will work happilly. It's better than working some shithole job all day just to afford to be in debt.


--------------------


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2441040 - 03/16/04 10:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

so you're saying that if we abolished money as a medium and went back to bartering then people would stop stealing from eachother, ganging up on eachother, and using force to intimidate eachother into non- mutually amicable arrangements?





Sort of, yes.

See, some people instinctively know that the monetary system is corrupt and screwing them.

When someone works hard all their life and yet dies poor, but some lucky asshole hits the lottery after sitting on his ass all his life and then continues to sit on his ass in style...

...people notice these types of things. then they decide to roll armored cars, rob banks, or sell crack.

They feel that it's just a game, and that it's not a fair game, so why should they be fair?

Why should some bullshit McDonalds executive get paid millions while the ones who actually cook and sell the food can't even afford to eat there?

Why is money bad? I mean come on!! It's a fucking terrible idea, and like was said it's a means for fat slobs to sit on their asses while someone else works!!

Fuck having a value system at all.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2441043 - 03/16/04 10:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"To clarify my point lets imagine a society that functions somewhat like this.
You do your job, whatever it is that you do, based on what you choose to do.. and it is a job that in some way or another, benefits the community. When people need your service or product, they come to you, and get it for free.

Since you provide this service to the community, when you need food, or shoes, or whatever, you go to similar places and get them for free. If everyone is providing their services to the community for free, everyone gets stuff for free, just by contributing to the community. The only way it could possibly work is if everyone in the community was contributing to everyone else in the community. All your 'basic' needs like food, water, shelter, clothing and such, should be a given.. 'extras' could be acquired through the barter system or similar means of trade. It's pretty simple really. "

Simple but impossible. Commune living has been tried, and heck, I'll even say that in certain situations with smaller communities, and with specific people, it works great!

however, widespread? no way man. people like me would ruin it for the rest, and I'll even concede that point.

It's not that I'm a worthless pile of crap, I'm just lazy. My dream is to do nothing, and if it was possible for me to do nothing yet still live comfortably?

Not sayin I'd never do ANYTHING, but there's no way I'd hold a steady job. Task-based random work -- dig a ditch, design a bridge, and tomorrow, babysit these kids and then go kill dinner? that'd work. but generally I'd be sitting around taking all of ya'lls weed and trying to figure out a way to extrude tastycakes DIRECTLY into my mouth.

And there's people much worse than I am.. I'll own up to the fact I'm lazy, and it's not because I think I'm owed anything by anyone and it's not because I think I deserve to not have to work.. I just dislike it but work anyway. And I'd only take what I really needed to survive, plus as I said above all the weed I can find.. there's greedy people out there that would take much more than that, just so they would have more than anyone else, just so they would feel important, and they'd lord that over everyone else..

and then we've basically already progressed away from communism and took the first step back to where we are. One person would take all the things, take all the power, and fux0r it all up.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2441046 - 03/16/04 10:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's just the cast(sp?) system evolved. There are still peasants and kings and heiarchies of wealth.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2441057 - 03/16/04 10:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

And on what basis are you making your claim that things could only get better?




I'm not saying that at all, re-read what i said. It's a bad tasting medicine, but the longer we wait, the greater the initial damage will be. We should dump the whole stinking system and take the consequences.


Quote:


How can you possibly make a correlation between a lack of currency and the legality of drugs?




Not just lack of currency, lack of government too. No rules just right, like Outback Steakhouse.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2441063 - 03/16/04 10:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

nah I think the idea of money was nice at first - its just mankind's unfortunate drive to COMPETE that totally fucked this up and turned money into the biggest force on this planet.

Money, in my opinion, causes and effects more stuff on this planet than anything else currently, and I think its grown totally out of our control, which means hopefully it should DIE!

DIE, MONEY! DIE!

VEE MUST KEEEEL FRANKENSTEIN!


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2441068 - 03/16/04 10:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

This is understandable. But let's say a system was in place whereby you could not receive such free services if you did not contribute to the community. No one said anything about a steady job, just that you benefit the community.

People that abused and manipulated the system, and did not contribute to the community, would be banished. A service-to-other community cannot properly function with service-to-self individuals running around, corrupting the system.

Service-to-self citizens would have to form their own community, where they could lie and cheat and steal from each other to their heart's content. While the service-to-other community would be everyone helping each other. It does not work any other way, the two groups would have to be identified and isolated.


--------------------


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2441087 - 03/16/04 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

But let's say a system was in place whereby you could not receive such free services if you did not contribute to the community.




Bums would get up and start working!! Good idea!!


Quote:

Service-to-self citizens would have to form their own community, where they could lie and cheat and steal from each other to their heart's content. While the service-to-other community would be everyone helping each other. It does not work any other way, the two groups would have to be identified and isolated.




There would not be "service to self" people in the absence of a monetary system. just like there are no poker players in the absence of playing cards.


Money is the root of all evil, just admit it people.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2441093 - 03/16/04 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

and what would all the "banished" do for food? rob the unbanished?


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2441099 - 03/16/04 10:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
As I pointed out, there are certain jobs that no sane person would do if they didn't need the money.




There is absolutely no shortage of insane people in this world.



There is an even bigger supply of lazy people.

Quote:

Quote:

Try finding a proctologist who will do that job just out of the goodness of their heart.




I'm sure you could find a couple. As long as their are services which need to be provided.. there will be people willing to do them.



The question is: Will there be enough? I highly doubt it.

Quote:

Whether it is because they need the money to survive, or because they are getting free healthcare, food, clothes, shelter, etc because of it..or simply because they like to help other people. In the first case, most people working minimum wage dead end shithole jobs (which there are millions of) cannot afford to live on their own, pay for healthcare, pay for food, let alone all the other 'neccessities' for life in modern soceity. You give them everything they need to live well, and they will work happilly. It's better than working some shithole job all day just to afford to be in debt.



So you're saying they only get those benefits if they work? I suppose that might work out, but then they'd all try to get the easy jobs, instead of the ones that require more labor that might pay more. Also, certain jobs like doctors and lawyers require more rigorous education and training than others. What incentive would you give these people to spend all that extra time in graduate school?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool".... [Re: silversoul7]
    #2441125 - 03/16/04 10:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What incentive would you give these people to spend all that extra time in graduate school?




Maybe make graduate school a lot of fun. Put lots of beers and pussy there.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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