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Konyap said:
Datura's pretty dangrous wonder if it's ever been substituted for ayuhuascha

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I've heard a few reports over the years of "Toé" (Brugmansia...contains scopolamine) being found in ayahuasca brews that "ayahuasca-tourists" have drank. Pretty sure at least a few people have died from drinking ayahuasca down in Peru, I forget all the details but recall that Toé/brugmansia was a likely culprit in those cases.



Some shamans do traditionally add Toé to ayauhuasca, or for certain situation/specific uses (aya can be a mixture of plants beyond the usual caapi & chacruna)...but what I think happens is, some people take advantage of tourists that are seeking ayahuasca and they give them a brew of Toé/brugmansia calling it ayahuasca. ...and/or some "shamans" think the "aya-tourists" are seeking a trip that's as crazy & far out as possible so they throw some brugmansia into the mix .








-OM


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openmind said:

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Konyap said:
Datura's pretty dangrous wonder if it's ever been substituted for ayuhuascha

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I've heard a few reports over the years of "Toé" (Brugmansia...contains scopolamine) being found in ayahuasca brews that "ayahuasca-tourists" have drank. Pretty sure at least a few people have died from drinking ayahuasca down in Peru, I forget all the details but recall that Toé/brugmansia was a likely culprit in those cases.



Some shamans do traditionally add Toé to ayauhuasca, or for certain situation/specific uses (aya can be a mixture of plants beyond the usual caapi & chacruna)...but what I think happens is, some people take advantage of tourists that are seeking ayahuasca and they give them a brew of Toé/brugmansia calling it ayahuasca. ...and/or some "shamans" think the "aya-tourists" are seeking a trip that's as crazy & far out as possible so they throw some brugmansia into the mix .








-OM


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The James-Town Weed (which resembles the Thorny Apple of Peru, and I take to be the plant so call'd) is supposed to be one of the greatest coolers in the world. This being an early plant, was gather'd very young for a boil'd salad, by some of the soldiers sent thither to quell the rebellion of Bacon (1676); and some of them ate plentifully of it, the effect of which was a very pleasant comedy, for they turned natural fools upon it for several days: one would blow up a feather in the air; another would dart straws at it with much fury; and another, stark naked, was sitting up in a corner like a monkey, grinning and making mows [grimaces] at them; a fourth would fondly kiss and paw his companions, and sneer in their faces with a countenance more antic than any in a Dutch droll.

In this frantic condition they were confined, lest they should, in their folly, destroy themselves—though it was observed that all their actions were full of innocence and good nature. Indeed, they were not very cleanly; for they would have wallowed in their own excrements, if they had not been prevented. A thousand such simple tricks they played, and after eleven days returned themselves again, not remembering anything that had passed.

— Robert Beverley, Jr., The History and Present State of Virginia, Book II: Of the Natural Product and Conveniencies in Its Unimprov'd State, Before the English Went Thither, 1705

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c10h12n2o said:
scopolamine as a weapon, the way it is used in south america, is absolutely terifying. it completely erodes your free will: people will literally help robbers load all their furniture onto trucks, then go to various atms until they have cleaned out their accounts, often perform sex acts or whatever else the attackers encourage, its absolutely fucked up

the worst part is the way it fucks people up afterward, they seem like a whole part of their brain is just fried, they are never right again. the doses these people are given, and the behaviors they engage in (seeminglyy of their own volition) cause permenant psychological/psichiatric and neurological issues. i read an article on this med student that had his mind destroyed by it, cries at home with his mom every night since, its some of the most horrible  shit ive ever read

the cartels and similar types have been using this stuf for a while, and it appeared in some of those old cia studies that got declassified as well. unfortunately, now even random hookers know about it and use it regularly to pay the bills. i think vice did a bit on it where they show how easy it is to get in certain areas

the people dosing and robbing these folks have no concern for proper dosing or the long term damage they do to their victims. hell, they think its funny

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Wiiiiilson said:
Heh, I guess it's just my ignorance.

I once thought ecstacy would drain your spinal fluid, since that's what the government told us. I never thought I'd one day try it myself *gasp*!

I guess it all comes down to dosage.

Even meth. I once thought it was the scariest thing, but then I found at that a few people I know have been functional users who weren't addicted on their first try and didnt lose all their teeth or get paranoid psychosis.
I'd still be very wary of scopolamine in any form.

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3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), a major drug of abuse and a main metabolite after 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) intake, provokes a loss of dendritic spine-like protrusions in primary cultures of rat cortical neurons
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21075084

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Occasionally, people claim that LSD has been found in spinal fluid years after the last time LSD was taken. There is no support for this claim. If anyone knows of a research article that has looked at spinal fluid of LSD users for LSD, please let us know
https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml

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"The observation of strychnine as being present in any street drug, as a by-product, or a contaminant, or an impurity has never been documented. It is a natural plant product, as are the ergots which are used in the synthesis of LSD. But they come from totally unrelated plants; there has never been a report of strychnine and an ergot alkaloid co-existing in a single species. So if the two materials are together in a drug sample, it could only be by the hand of man. I have personally looked a large number of illicit street offerings and have never detected the presence of strychnine

The same argument applies to the myth that occasionally surfaces, that strychnine occurs in the white tufts of peyote. This is equally fraudulent -- it has never been reported in that cactus or any other cactus."
Furthermore, it should probably be spelled out that strychnine is not needed to bond LSD to blotter paper, nor is strychnine a breakdown product of LSD. these are probably the two most commonly repeated gross misconceptions.
https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth5.shtml

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