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OfflinePsychonaught98
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Ergot wine
    #24381224 - 06/06/17 01:49 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Has anybody ever tried this I've read online it can cause loss of limbs and everything but i heard about it from watching this vid on the underground LSD mega lab in Kentucky I'm just curious about it there's no personal account on its effects


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24381375 - 06/06/17 04:01 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ergot if eaten in sufficient amounts will definitely cause ergot poisoning. It's well documented. I wouldn't recommend it. I can't conceive of why someone would want to do ergot instead of LSD.


Edited by nooneman (06/06/17 04:02 AM)


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: nooneman]
    #24381610 - 06/06/17 09:15 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Some ergot strains are alkaloid blocked mutants with only the biosynthetic pathways for making ergine and other nontoxic compounds. Stephens and Hall strain of C. Paspali comes to mind. This is the only reasonable way to do it seeing as other species of ergot can produce horrible side effects from vasoconstrictors and toxins.


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Re: Ergot wine [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #24381780 - 06/06/17 10:59 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

See St Anthony's fire for more details lol


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InvisibleIbex-Trismegistus
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Steveinshell]
    #24381821 - 06/06/17 11:21 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

There was a theory that ergot infected rye was used to brew a beer, and that this "ergot beer" was "Kykeon", the psychedelic drink consumed at eleusis.

So, others began to ask "if this ergotized beer was Kykeon, than how did it not gain a reputation of danger? A reputation of producing seizures, vasoconstriction, necrosis, and other features of ergotism?

The response was "a hot oil was floated on top of the ergotized beer, and was then removed, this layer of hot oil would remove all the convulsive or dangerous alkaloids while leaving the psychoactive compounds.

This is all just theory of coarse, I think it was Gordon wasson in "the road to eleusis" where this is discussed.

Any way, if you did create an ergot wine, you would better hope that floating hot oil on its surface would leach out the dangerous alkaloids, or it may be the last wine you would ever drink.

Several species of climbing vine produce lysergic acid and lysergic acid amide amoung other ergoline alkaloids in their seeds, and small amounts through out the general plant matter, such as Turbina corymbosa, Ipomoea tricolor, Ipomoea violacea, and Argyreia nervosa.

I have heard of wines being made from Ipomoea tricolor and Ipomoea violacea leaf, however I do not believe these wines contain significant quantities of any lysergic alkaloid.


--------------------
I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious, and when they're serious, they're usually pretty funny.-Jim Morrison

'Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.-Confucius —

When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”― John Lennon

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OfflinePsychonaught98
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Ibex-Trismegistus]
    #24382401 - 06/06/17 02:54 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I have no plan to try it as the side effects seem too far not worth it but it still sounded like a pretty interesting chemical none the less


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InvisibleIbex-Trismegistus
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24384555 - 06/07/17 09:40 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Ergot can be quite dangerous to work with. I used to work with Claviceps purpurea and Claviceps paspali cultures, but ultimately found that the seeds of Turbina corymbosa, Ipomoea tricolor, Ipomoea violacea, and Argyreia nervosa to be a much safer source of lysergamide alkaloids.

Doing anything with ergot is not recommended, even in modern LSD chemistry ergot is rarely the source of the lysergamide precursor compounds. Ergot is hazardous to handle and difficult to work with in that regard.

In the 16th century ergot was used to induce childbirth, and even in more modern times was used to treat post-partum hemorrhage. Ergot had sporadic use in medicine for various purposes over time. In 1918 ergot was first  isolated by Arthur Stoll, who was working for sandoz (this is the same company that Albert Hofmann was working for when he first synthesized LSD from ergot derived lysergic acid) in times as modern as 1921 ergot was used medically, marketed as "Gynergen". Related compounds such as Ergotamine tartrate were used in modern times for treatment of migraine headaches, ergotamine tartrate can also be used in the synthesis of LSD.

There are even lysergamide/ergoline alkaloids present in marine organisms, ergosinine strongly resembles ergotamine.
Quote:

Among the prenylated indole alkaloids, ergot alkaloids are a well-established group of natural products, known for their potent and manifold biological activities. Ergot alkaloids have been isolated from terrestrial sources exclusively until Pibocin A (483), the first representative of marine ergoline alkaloids, was obtained from extracts of the Far-Eastern ascidian Eudistoma sp. (Figure 78) [205]. Pibocins A (483) and B (484) [206] were found to show antimicrobial and cytotoxic effects against mouse Ehrlich carcinoma cells [205,206]. 2-(3,3-Dimethylprop-1-ene)-costaclavine (485) and 2-(3,3-dimethylprop-1-ene)-epi-costaclavine (486) were isolated from the marine-derived fungus Aspergillus fumigatus, together with known clavine-type alkaloids costaclavine (487) and fumigaclavines A (488) [207] and C (489) [208]. Except of fumigaclavine A, all of them were found to show weak cytotoxicity against the mouse leukemia cell line P388 [209]. Additionally, fumigaclavine C (489) was found to induce apoptosis in MCF-7 breast cancer cells [210]. Ergosinine (490), which was isolated from the marine mollusc Pleurobranchus forskalii, is the first ergot peptide alkaloid (ergopeptine) found in marine life. The authors propose that ergot alkaloids may play a defensive or protective role in mollusks and other marine organisms
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26287214





Ok, enough about ergot, and related compounds. LSD chemistry is an area which I spend a good deal of time in, so I enjoy information regarding all things related to it, such as ergot and morning glories.


Any way, regarding ergotized fermented drink, I am very curious about this "morning glory wine"
Quote:

The flowers of the morning glory may be steeped in water for a week or two to produce a mildly alcoholic wine with a distinctively pleasant flavor and very mild psychedelic effect, on the order of hemp. Once again herbs and/or honey can be added to good effect
https://erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory.shtml





Again, when working with morning glory vines you obtain access to lysergamide alkaloids without the potential hazards and dangers associated with ergot. So while ergot wine may be a venture too dangerous to attempt, morning glory wine exists and has been explored by humans.

Keep it in mind, there may be something of value here.


--------------------
I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious, and when they're serious, they're usually pretty funny.-Jim Morrison

'Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.-Confucius —

When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”― John Lennon

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24386156 - 06/07/17 08:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Well, if any of you do decide to do ergot, be sure to report back here and give us a detailed trip report. But again, I highly, highly do not recommend it and would advise against it.

If you do ergot you could die, lose limbs, break teeth, break bones, have seizures, end up in the hospital, or end up getting arrested. The symptoms of ergot poisoning include seizures, severe vasoconstriction, severe muscle spasms sometimes resulting in broken teeth and broken bones, etc. etc. I wouldn't be surprised if ergot poisoning looks a lot like an overdose on a psychedelic like 25i, DOx, or bromo dragonfly. And then of course, there are the hallucinations probably because it's quite psychedelic. I can't even imagine the hellish nightmare of experiencing that level of side effects while tripping.

Nevertheless, most of the medical records of ergot poisoning are from a very long time ago. I'd be interested what someone had to say about the effects first hand. It is at least conceivable that you could ingest it in small enough amounts to have a manageable level of side effects.

But again, I would advise against this. You'd be potentially taking your life into your own hands.


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OfflinePsychonaught98
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: nooneman]
    #24386567 - 06/07/17 11:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I as well would love to hear a detailed trip report I'm to much of a pussy to try that shit myself @nooneman look up neuro soup on YouTube she does a lot of trip reports she ever did one about plugging dmt up her ass LOL i think you'll appreciate her


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Re: Ergot wine [Re: nooneman]
    #24388763 - 06/08/17 06:43 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Well, if any of you do decide to do ergot, be sure to report back here and give us a detailed trip report. But again, I highly, highly do not recommend it and would advise against it.

If you do ergot you could die, lose limbs, break teeth, break bones, have seizures, end up in the hospital, or end up getting arrested. The symptoms of ergot poisoning include seizures, severe vasoconstriction, severe muscle spasms sometimes resulting in broken teeth and broken bones, etc. etc. I wouldn't be surprised if ergot poisoning looks a lot like an overdose on a psychedelic like 25i, DOx, or bromo dragonfly. And then of course, there are the hallucinations probably because it's quite psychedelic. I can't even imagine the hellish nightmare of experiencing that level of side effects while tripping.

Nevertheless, most of the medical records of ergot poisoning are from a very long time ago. I'd be interested what someone had to say about the effects first hand. It is at least conceivable that you could ingest it in small enough amounts to have a manageable level of side effects.

But again, I would advise against this. You'd be potentially taking your life into your own hands.



Sounds like some of the crazy fits you'd hear about suspected witches having.


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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24389823 - 06/09/17 01:02 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Psychonaught98 said:
I as well would love to hear a detailed trip report I'm to much of a pussy to try that shit myself @nooneman look up neuro soup on YouTube she does a lot of trip reports she ever did one about plugging dmt up her ass LOL i think you'll appreciate her




Yeah I was about to say, according to her she was fed ergot wine by that crazed lunatic Skinner when they were holed up in that Kansas missile silo


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OfflinePsychonaught98
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Niffla]
    #24389887 - 06/09/17 01:43 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I wouldnt say help up she did me tion many timed that she enjoyed being there but hes still a wack job but shit I woulda been his boo thang if he fed me molly and made me go sit by myself in a room lol


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InvisibleIbex-Trismegistus
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24431232 - 06/24/17 11:36 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think at somepoint there is a crucial misunderstand here, I can glean from the conversation that this involves Gordon t. Skinner, and Leonard pickard, and probably Crystal or one of the other girls they had around.

Pickard was caught with ergotamine tartrate when he was busted. Which means he was not cultivating Claviceps purpurea or Claviceps paspali (ergot). He was likely smuggling his ET in from over seas.

He was likely taking KOH and H2O which was being stirred under an inert atmosphere, then adding the ET, then the mixture is stirred, cooled, and acidified with H2SO4, at this point solids will form, the reaction is further cooled so the solids can be retrieved, and the solids are removed by filtration, the filter cake is then washed with Et2O. The solids are dried, transformed to a beaker, suspended in ammonia in anhydrous EtOH, stirred, and separated by decantation, this extraction is then repeated, the original decantation and this second extraction are then combined and filtered, then the filtrate is evaporated. The resulting residue is then dissolved in ammonia and acidified with H2SO4, the precipitated solids are filtered out, washed, and dried, giving d-lysergic acid hydrate which is then used to produce LSD.

It appears that he was producing lysergic acid hydrate from ergotamine tartrate, which was then used to make the LSD, The point being that Skinner, or pickard, manufacturing from ET, never would have had any ergot, let alone any ergot wine.

Since they were using ET rather than lysergic acid derived from morning glory seeds, Hawaiian baby Woodrose seeds, or claviceps fungi, it seems that even morning glory wine would have been out of the question.

I have never heard of "ergot wine" ( aside from some anecdotal nonsense online, which I am still very skeptical towards ) and still have trouble believing that anybody would prepare or consume such a thing.

Ergot is celebrated in the psychedelic community as a source for the lysergic acid precursor needed to manufacture LSD, not as something that is consumed, and I think that some may not understand this, some might think that ergot is actually consumed, or may even think that they actually consumed argot.


--------------------
I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious, and when they're serious, they're usually pretty funny.-Jim Morrison

'Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.-Confucius —

When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”― John Lennon

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OfflinePsychonaught98
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Ibex-Trismegistus]
    #24432535 - 06/24/17 08:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well ibex that was an awesome reply but people eat Jimson weed so i dont find it too hard to believe that people consume ergot


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InvisibleIbex-Trismegistus
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24434375 - 06/25/17 03:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychonaught98 said:
Well ibex that was an awesome reply but people eat Jimson weed so i dont find it too hard to believe that people consume ergot




I do.

Datura species have a long history of medicinal and ceremonial use. Datura species have a long history in Vedic medicine as treatment for skin diseases, motion sickness and asthma. Scopolamine and atropine are still used in modern medicine:
Quote:

scopolamine, is a medication used to treat motion sickness and postoperative nausea and vomiting. It is also sometimes used before surgery to decrease saliva
Atropine is a medication to treat certain types of nerve agent and pesticide poisonings as well as some types of slow heart rate and to decrease saliva production during surgery -Wikipedia




Aside from religious use in India from ancient times until today, datura and related plants have been in use as ceremonial psychoactives from what is today California down to south America
Quote:

The Gabrielino occupied some of the most fertile and pleasant land in California, and, because they were among the wealthiest and most technologically advanced Native Americans in the region, they exercised considerable influence on all their neighbours. In religion, for instance, the Gabrielino were the source of the jimsonweed cult, a widely practiced southern California religion that involved various sacred and esoteric rituals and the drinking of toloache, a hallucinogen made from the jimsonweed (Datura stramonium).
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Gabrielino#ref797925




Quote:

In the Amazon, Brugmansia is used in magical practices for visionary journeys, shape-shifting, divination, clairvoyance, love magic, aphrodisiac, amulets, and incense. Scopolamine is responsible for the visionary effects and is the alkaloid occurring in highest concentration. The use of Toé for magical purposes is the province of master curanderos (healers) and brujos (witches). Curanderos respect it as very powerful plant and use it cautiously and sparingly. On the other hand, Brujos, individuals engaged in the practice of black magic, may use Toé frequently with little discrimination or integrity in its applications
http://biopark.org/peru/toe.html





It does not surprise me that A plant with such an extensive history of human use is still being used today.

Where ergot has never been intentionally consumed as a psychoactive.

Ergot was used as a medicine involving childbirth:
Quote:

Midwives and doctors have used extracts from ergots to hasten childbirth or to induce abortions for centuries.[23] Previous research has shown that the prophylactic use of uterotonic agents in the third stage of labour reduces both postpartum blood loss and postpartum haemorrhage.

However, until anesthesia became available, there was no antidote or way of controlling the effects of ergot. So if the fetus did not move as expected, the drug could cause the uterus to mold itself around the child, rupturing the uterus and killing the child. Eventually, doctors determined that the use of ergot in childbirth without an antidote was too dangerous. They ultimately restricted its use to expelling the placenta or stopping hemorrhage.

-Wikipedia




Again, intentional consumption of error as a psychoactive is historically unheard of.

Wasson speculated that the mysteries at eleusis, where a psychoactive drink called "Kykeon" was consumed, was a cult if ergotized beer. His speculation was that ergot infected rye was brewed into a beer, hot oil was then floated on the surface of this ergot beer to remove dangerous alkaloids, this beer was then served at eleusis as "Kykeon". This is all speculation.

There have been historical incidents of accidental ergot ingestion, "saint Anthony's fire", again, these symptoms were mostly physical and unintentional.

Albert hofmann was researching ergot for rather mundane reasons, when LSD and it's psychoactive effects were stumbled upon.

At no point have humans ever been known to consume ergot intentionally as a psychoactive, so I see a huge difference between datura and ergot.

I think this person simply did not know what they were consuming, I seriously doubt it was "ergot wine"

Maybe wine brewed from morning glory flowers? ( Which actually does exist )
Quote:

The flowers of the morning glory may be steeped in water for a week or two to produce a mildly alcoholic wine with a distinctively pleasant flavor and very mild psychedelic effect, on the order of hemp. Once again herbs and/or honey can be added to good effect -erowid




Maybe wine spiked with lysergic acid amide or LSD?

But ergot wine? I doubt it.


--------------------
I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious, and when they're serious, they're usually pretty funny.-Jim Morrison

'Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.-Confucius —

When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”― John Lennon

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OfflinePsychonaught98
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Ibex-Trismegistus]
    #24435259 - 06/25/17 09:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

What are the effects like of morning glory wine? I just dont think its so far fetched to say people have done it seriously if youre willing to go eat some night shade I wouldnt put it past someone to go get some ergot


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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24436360 - 06/26/17 12:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I actually just read that thing about Scopolamine and got it prescribed to me when I was in the ER last night.. may be different but it's Butyl Scopolamine. Used to treat inflammation and muscle tension within the digestive system. Well for me anyway haha.


--------------------
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: AstralAndrew]
    #24437135 - 06/26/17 06:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/paspali.htm

The ancient greek kykeon is theorized by some to be a preparation of claviceps paspali which is native to the mediterranean. I could see humans consuming a sophisticated ergot preparation as an entheogen.


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Re: Ergot wine [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #24458650 - 07/05/17 10:13 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/paspali.htm

The ancient greek kykeon is theorized by some to be a preparation of claviceps paspali which is native to the mediterranean. I could see humans consuming a sophisticated ergot preparation as an entheogen.




Yeah, I mentioned this earlier about kykeon.
Quote:

There was a theory that ergot infected rye was used to brew a beer, and that this "ergot beer" was "Kykeon", the psychedelic drink consumed at eleusis.

So, others began to ask "if this ergotized beer was Kykeon, than how did it not gain a reputation of danger? A reputation of producing seizures, vasoconstriction, necrosis, and other features of ergotism?

The response was "a hot oil was floated on top of the ergotized beer, and was then removed, this layer of hot oil would remove all the convulsive or dangerous alkaloids while leaving the psychoactive compounds.

This is all just theory of coarse, I think it was Gordon wasson in "the road to eleusis" where this is discussed.




--------------------
I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious, and when they're serious, they're usually pretty funny.-Jim Morrison

'Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.-Confucius —

When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”― John Lennon

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InvisibleIbex-Trismegistus
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Re: Ergot wine [Re: Psychonaught98]
    #24458664 - 07/05/17 10:22 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychonaught98 said:
What are the effects like of morning glory wine? I just dont think its so far fetched to say people have done it seriously if youre willing to go eat some night shade I wouldnt put it past someone to go get some ergot




Quote:

The flowers of the morning glory may be steeped in water for a week or two to produce a mildly alcoholic wine with a distinctively pleasant flavor and very mild psychedelic effect, on the order of hemp. Once again herbs and/or honey can be added to good effect -erowid.




Again,

Datura species have a long history of medicinal and ceremonial use. Datura species have a long history in Vedic medicine as treatment for skin diseases, motion sickness and asthma. Scopolamine and atropine are still used in modern medicine:

Quote:


scopolamine, is a medication used to treat motion sickness and postoperative nausea and vomiting. It is also sometimes used before surgery to decrease saliva
Atropine is a medication to treat certain types of nerve agent and pesticide poisonings as well as some types of slow heart rate and to decrease saliva production during surgery -Wikipedia






Aside from religious use in India from ancient times until today, datura and related plants have been in use as ceremonial psychoactives from what is today California down to south America

Quote:



The Gabrielino occupied some of the most fertile and pleasant land in California, and, because they were among the wealthiest and most technologically advanced Native Americans in the region, they exercised considerable influence on all their neighbours. In religion, for instance, the Gabrielino were the source of the jimsonweed cult, a widely practiced southern California religion that involved various sacred and esoteric rituals and the drinking of toloache, a hallucinogen made from the jimsonweed (Datura stramonium).
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Gabrielino#ref797925








Quote:



In the Amazon, Brugmansia is used in magical practices for visionary journeys, shape-shifting, divination, clairvoyance, love magic, aphrodisiac, amulets, and incense. Scopolamine is responsible for the visionary effects and is the alkaloid occurring in highest concentration. The use of Toé for magical purposes is the province of master curanderos (healers) and brujos (witches). Curanderos respect it as very powerful plant and use it cautiously and sparingly. On the other hand, Brujos, individuals engaged in the practice of black magic, may use Toé frequently with little discrimination or integrity in its applications
http://biopark.org/peru/toe.html





It does not surprise me that A plant with such an extensive history of human use is still being used today.

Where ergot has never been intentionally consumed as a psychoactive.

That is kind of like saying "well people eat datura, so why not Cicuta maculata"

It's not a sound argument.

Morning glories do not produce ergotism, and have been consumed as psychoactives, but ergot itself has no history of use in this way.


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