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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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I feel like I should get a service dog
    #24374145 - 06/03/17 04:07 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

As some of you know I have pretty serious anxiety and depression as well as a chronic illness that causes pain, weakness, cramps and muscle spasms.

In no small part does that make the depression and anxiety worse. I mean I need to go to the store. What happens if I don't have the energy to do all my shopping, put everything in the basket, on the counter, back in the basket, in the car, and then get it into the home? I've not had that happen before but I have to push it pretty often, to the point where I black out some times. I've been forced to stop entirely and sit down right then and there to keep from passing out after my eyes try to roll up in my head.


Let me tell you it's pretty embarrassing to do that in the middle of a grocery store.


More than a few times I've thought "it would be so much easier if I had someone to help me with this stuff."
But I cannot and will not have someone take care of me. I don't need that. I don't want that. I, grudgingly, admit I could really use some help on my bad days.


I couldn't get one right now, because you need a proper diagnosis in order to 'hire' a service dog, and the right kind of service dog, but after I do... It would be nice. I don't mean a therapy dog, though that would be nice too, I mean a big dog that could help me push, pull, lift, sit, stand, ect. I have thankfully gotten better and not worse in recent years but I have this constant looming fear of getting worse. Of being too unwell to say I don't need the help (and stubbornly push on till I hurt myself.) I think having a dog would also help give me a much needed dose of confidence. And security.



Do any of you have experience with service animals?


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24374247 - 06/03/17 04:44 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Like I've been reading things like how you pay for the training of the animal and it can be $20,000 a year for a minimum of 2 years. I don't have $40,000. I know people on disability don't have $40,000. And there is often a waiting list of 5-7 years. Wut???

So I assume there has to be some organizations that aren't ridiculously insane.


I've also read that sometimes you can train your own but... well like I already struggle to do what is already on my plate most days could I really add to that in taking up advanced training for a dog/puppy that will need to grow up to be able to immediately listen and obey both my verbal commands and the needs my body language expresses.

Thinking about that seems pretty fucking overwhelming.


I've also read some people kind of do a mix of the 2. They get a puppy and take it to service training instead of obedience training.


But yeah that's part of the reason I'm asking the questions now. Because if things were to get worse in the future or I decide I do need the help I may want to pick up a puppy and start training it sooner rather than later.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Offlinegillaputty
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24375493 - 06/04/17 03:16 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

A pet trainer will only erect a substantial adjustment in your pets diet.

If you can't own the pet sell it to the dope man.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24375512 - 06/04/17 03:37 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

40,000 $ for a service dog?!

:whattefuck2:

There must be another way....


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"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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OfflineBig Worm
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #24375517 - 06/04/17 03:44 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

My friend creates false paperwork that allows any dog to be a service dog. 


There is always a way. 


:cookiemonster:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: Big Worm]
    #24375528 - 06/04/17 03:52 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Hey :awehigh:

U ready to do some illegal stuff Cookies, for the better good? Cause Big Worm knows a guy...


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24375587 - 06/04/17 04:30 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

From what I understand there is no federal registry for service animals. You can strap a vest on an animal and say it's a service animal. All you need is approval from a doctor to have one. Or rather a disability that an animal can help with.

Of course most establisments look for and accept the unofficial or fraudulent papers/tags.

AFAIK every registry that doesn't train the animal themselves is fake. They give out certificates to anyone who pays for one.


http://servicedogcentral.org/content/fake-service-dog-credentials


The ONLY organizations that have legitimate certification are the ones that train their own dogs. But that for me only raises more questions. Like how the hell do you even tell if they might accept animals they didn't train? they make 40,000 dollars per dog, and have people on a several year wait list, I'm sure they don't like people strolling up and saying their dog does what a 40 grand dog does and demanding it receive the same papers one of the "official" (officially trained) dogs do.

I don't think that's wrong so much as the entire situation revolving around getting and using a service animal is. So many people abuse the right, so many businesses have no idea how to legally handle it, and so many people can't get the "official" service dogs because they're fucking disabled and can't afford to pay for them.



Having to challenge the grocery store manager about whether my dog is able to help with a disability (when they are not legally allowed to ask what my disability is) isn't likely gonna help with those anxiety issues. They usually ask for tags or IDs because they're not legally allowed to ask if I have a disability. So I probably would get the bullshit papers if it came down to it. Tho I'd prefer not to. I'd rather do it "the right way." but it's looking like even "the right way" seems wrong.


At least if I were to go that route I'd be doing it "the wrong way" for the right reasons.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24375609 - 06/04/17 04:43 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Ouuu, a moral deliema.

Those are the worst.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #24375644 - 06/04/17 05:20 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Do it.  Life is hard enough, this could be an oppurtunity to lessen the brunt.  If someone were to come to my store with a dog, vest or not, I have and would let them in.  Especially due to the way the law is, no one would challenge you. Often throughout my day, I try to practice selflessness and keep in mind the greater good.

I dont need to see papers, if your ten min visit in my store will keep you happy and coming back, you can do anything- as long as it doesnt infringe on other patrons.

Anyone looking to cause a problem or make someone's already tough life tougher is missing the big picture, big time.

Not sure about tens of thousands, but if it were me I would train my own.  Certain breeds will be better than others, sounds like you are thinking critically to project what your needs would be.

What is the additional anxiety over? How people will look at you? The cost?
Sounds like your legitimate need would outweigh monetary or cultural stigma, no?


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #24376307 - 06/04/17 10:50 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Well I'm sure that part of it will come into play but for the moment I'm focusing on the more immediate issues. Like I'm not sure how to go about it.

Definitely need a big dog to really physically help me out (which is perfect because I'm not fond of ankle biters :lol:) so I know I'd want to look for a big dog with a strong back. A lab or maybe even a mastiff. Shit if I got a mastiff that grew big enough I could saddle it and not have to worry about walking :lol:

So that much I know.
The more immediate issue I worry about is how to go about training. I have experience training dogs with the basics, sit, shake, lay down, but I don't know how to go about training a dog to help me stand up. I imagine training it to pick things up and carry them for me would be some alternative training to fetch. Though I don't know of any any dog that would want to pick up a plastic bag full of groceries so that might be a challenge too.



Ideally if I were to get a pup to start training as a service dog I'd like to have some sort of professional resource to help me out with that.. Living so close to DC I imagine I'd be able to find some sort of something for that but so far, with my web searching, I haven't been able to. Maybe I should call but I will admit I have terrible phone anxiety so I like to have a really good idea of wtf I'm calling about before I start dialing.
Have an audio disorder that is worse on the phone since I can't read lips and body language. I've kinda sorta started to get over it and call when it's important or when I really want to talk to someone but I still hate it. If I have a really good idea of what to expect on the phone then it kind of makes up for the inevitable misunderstanding.

Anyways, I haven't found a resource on this yet and that's probably my biggest obstacle to begin with.


With as much as my family has already spent on my medical bills I'm not gonna make them spend thousands of dollars on a dog. They probably would be happy to help me train it though so there is that.
And my Meat would probably be happy to train the little baby how to be a dog. He'll hate it when it grows up but he'll momma the shit out of it until it does.


I am going to get a dog soon regardless since I'm moving soon and have to leave Meat ^ with my parents. And he's getting right old and... well it's not going to be remotely good for my mental health when he passes. So yes I do need a pup soon. And I've realized that it's going to be difficult for me to take care of the house and the cat and the dog by myself but I've also come to the realization that a smart enough and big enough dog would be able to help take care of me in turn. Which I admit is something I will definitely need. The more I think about it the more certain I become on the idea.

There is still the question: HOW?


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Offlinegillaputty
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24376679 - 06/04/17 01:15 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I knew a lady secretary alike who had a Roghdesian Ridgeback.  They have very tender spines. I wouldn't like to see a unhealthy.

Search it.


I wonder how well they would be at service dogs.


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: gillaputty] * 2
    #24376802 - 06/04/17 02:08 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

My buddy used to have this special giant breed of German shepherd. Thing was fucking HUGE. Looked like this



He wasn't a service dog but he was a very well behaved gentle dog and they literally took him (sammy) everywhere.

He used to shop at Wal-Mart with him. I'm like they allow that? He's like well they never told us to leave or anything, actually everyone (employees included) LOVED him.

If your dog is well behaved and you act like he belongs, no one will give you shit most of the time.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: gillaputty]
    #24376835 - 06/04/17 02:20 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

They're beautiful dogs, and definitely have the muscle to do what I would like it to do. But they seem to have too much energy. From what I've read they're heavy working dogs and need regular and vigorous exercise. My needs are not so heavy that I'd be pushing the dog every day but I likely would not be able to go out and give it the exercise it needs every day either.


I'd be more confident to go out and get a short walk in on my bad days if I had a properly trained pooch along but... well I baby sit my brothers pit at times and he's a very emotionally sensitive dog. He's attuned to my needs and knows that some day's Aunt Cookie can't go on walks with him. But if I try to take him on a short light walk he quickly forgets that I can't walk like his dad (which is often near jogging pace) and starts pulling on me like crazy. I have to constantly correct him.
If I tell him "no we're not walking today." He get's so fucking sad. He will pout for the rest of the day.


But I realize that every dog kind of has it's own personality so I wouldn't totally write off either breed. I think maybe I should work with local shelters and the ASPCA to help find a puppy (any dog not quite full grown) that has the kind of traits I would be looking for. A calm temperament, not prone to distraction, good with new people and dogs, and of course physically well built.


I think maybe a lab mix with another relatively large healthy breed would be the best option.


Mush4: I've read that shepards can make good service dogs but I have no personal experience with them. I'd always assumed they made better guard dogs and their naturally defensive demeanor might be bad to have in public. I'd also wondered because their jaws seem quite small in comparison to other breeds and seem better suited to ripping instead of carrying. But the one in your picture looks like he has much wider jaws than alot of the shepards I've seen.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24377689 - 06/04/17 07:44 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Perhaps a Rottie-Lab mix.  Good temperament with genetics bred to pull carts.

I wouldnt exclude certain breeds for their temperament, or even activity level. Especially if you go for a rescue, their personalities will vary. Early socialization will overcome inate temperament. Case in point: Bully Breeds. I've seen blue nosed service dogs.

Even if you can't always walk it- I have someone come and walk my dog when I'm working a double and am unable. Local kid who charges $10/walk- not bad. Mine takes it very personally if she doesn't get daily exercise, and I wholeheartedly believe every dog needs daily activity.

My neighbor trained his lab to trot next to him as he rides his bike. I am sure you know, but I'm putting it out there- chronic pain is best treated with exercise.  Its a cruel reality, but my pup motivates me to push myself when I'd rather be curled up with a heating pad.  If I absolutely cannot during a flair up, we go across the way to the lake so she can run/swim. Alls I'm getting at is you have options. 

I am exactly the same when it comes to phones!!! Body language is my biggest indicator..I can translate posts on this forum way better than I can identify what is conveyed by a faceless voice.

Regardless. Perhaps your local Seeing Eye chapter can point you in the right direction. 

I'd be interested to hear your progress in this journey. Your newest best friend awaits!


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #24377974 - 06/04/17 09:44 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

All really good ideas.

I definitely have time to figure it out. I won't be able to move until late fall at the soonest.


I think just having the emotional support, of knowing some "one" is there to help if I need it would help alot in terms of getting more exercise. I try to go for at least a short walk every day and a good hike every few weeks but my periods of poor health can stretch for months. I think I over did it the last few months cuz I've been all but laid up the last 2 weeks. So that's my concern with an over active dog, I need one that will go at my pace. A few years ago when I just started to go on regular hikes Meat was great for this as I needed to slow my pace down for his old out of shape ass.


It would be bad for me and unfair for a dog to be pushed for the dog and then unable to do anything for it for weeks. It's a big reason why I rejected PT without the appropriate diagnosis. I cannot be pushed but 1/10th of what others can or what I even think I can. I've been having to learn this and, being a former athlete, it's been more than one hard lesson to swallow. I've hurt myself numerous times by doing what seems relatively normal. Twice I had my shins splinted for months for going on a short jog with my brother's pit. The last thing I want is to feel like I'm bringing my companion down with me.

I often refuse human aid for this reason.
I don't want to be anyone's burden.

Pits and labs are so loyal and selfless though. If I got the right combination somewhere along those lines I think I could find a friend that is so happy to help me that they feel fulfilled and I feel significantly less insecure.


We'll see. I'll keep looking into it.

I also hope someone can provide input with personal experience with a service dog. Them or a friend or something. I have a strange feeling alot of what I read is rumor and speculation.


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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24378521 - 06/05/17 04:48 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I am unsure how a dog can help you go shopping. I'm unsure if you can get it to carry things reliably for you, I rather dont think so. The dog will most likely need you more than you need it. And that means it can become a burden to you. There is a legitimate reason for a dog and its loneliness.
But the dog will suffer if you dont give it more than one hour of activity per day.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #24378527 - 06/05/17 04:51 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Poor puppy dawg needs love....

I know my cat is ALWAYS meowing at me when i get home. Hes so lonely...


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #24378562 - 06/05/17 05:38 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I'd be curious as to how easily accessible information is, or lack there of. In this day in age I'm surprised there isn't agencies that pair up service dogs with people in need.

Do you live/will you be living with your partner? Is this something she would be willing to help out with (daily walks)?

My childhood best friend's family fostered/trained seeing eye dogs. They would get them as puppies, do early socialization and basic training. Then after 9 months the dog would leave to do more intensive Guide Dog training.

Intelligence level would be high on my priority list. Not just command smart, specifically emotional intelligence/ high empathy drive.  My dog freaks me out with her intuition and overall high capacity to know me so well. For instance, she will watch me eat and once finished, will get up to go to back door before I can grab a cigarette and lighter.

A dog that knows your habits and personality is half of training for service. The easy part is teaching the commands that compliment your daily routine.

There is a flourishing resource of free online classes you can take on different breed specs, animal psychology, and dog behaviorism.  Perhaps this can aid in selecting one.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #24379104 - 06/05/17 09:41 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Murzelpfrumpft said:
I am unsure how a dog can help you go shopping. I'm unsure if you can get it to carry things reliably for you, I rather dont think so. The dog will most likely need you more than you need it. And that means it can become a burden to you. There is a legitimate reason for a dog and its loneliness.
But the dog will suffer if you dont give it more than one hour of activity per day.




Nonsense. Well, implying activity and exercise are the same thing is nonsense. I know plenty of dogs that get less than an hour of walking time or park time and are happy and healthy.

I'd be working the dog so it would have plenty of activity and I have an acre of land I plan on fencing out in the country where it can chase squirrels and chipmunks and play fetch and all.

My legs tend to take it the worst and that's why walking would be a problem. That and when I get fatigued I have balance and coordination issues, to say nothing of nearly fainting. I feel like that may be worse than normal because of my meds so that much might improve after I come off but if it does not, or if it gets worse, I've seen/read where sturdy strong dogs can be trained to break their owners fall. Or bark to alert passersby to a problem. And of course lick or muzzle the owner to help wake them up.

That's a legit fear of mine and why I don't hike when I feel bad. For the most part I walk to be alone and that can be bad to be out in the woods alone, passed out. I could fall down a hill and never be seen by other hikers.

I feel I have been misleading in my examples. There is nothing I can't do, other than lift over certain amout of weight, it's just hard to do some things some of the time. I can't bend over when I feel light headed and dizzy to pick something up. I can't lift anything when my shoulder locks up. Or rather I do so very awkwardly and painfully. Getting up from a sitting position to a standing position is a ridiculous struggle at times, either do to my head or due to my legs. Going from standing to sitting can be a bitch too if my back or hips or abdomen is being fucked up. Sometimes I try to ease myself down but most of the time I kind of just flop over without something to hold on to. Which isn't nice when your back slams into a chair when it's already stiff and aching. Sometimes that will trigger muscle spasms too.

There is no part of my body that will not ache or cramp or spasm or go numb with stabbing pain.
I do not like admitting this. I do not, at all, like admitting how incredibly fucking weak I am at times, and sensitive any other time. It took me years just to admit to myself that something was really wrong.
Which helped lead into a psychotic break when I sucked it up and the doctors had no answers for me. I still don't have answers. But my plan is to try to go to a new GP next year and get a referral to a new neurologist. And grind it out till I have an answer or I feel like killing myself.


I will explain something very few people in my life understand. I have a well of energy, everyone does, but mine is somewhat small and it varies day by day. If I completely deplete my well I will get sick and be in serious pain for days. It often takes me weeks to recover when I overdo it.

Where most people can go and do everything they need and then some they want in a day I often have to choose between what I need to do and want to do. I can go for a 30 minute walk OR clean out my closet, I can mow the grass OR go to the store, I can go to work, take a shower, and put food in the oven. Or I can go to work, go eat at a friend's house and nap on their couch before driving home and getting in bed. Or I can not nap and be half awake and not very alert while driving home.

Every single little thing takes a little bucket from my well. And I can only give so many buckets.

I read this from a friend I told about my condition. I agree with her, it is eerie how much I can relate. And depressing. I hate living like this, I hate even more that others have to.

The spoon theory
https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

Like I said I used to be an athlete and did a little strength and endurance training. I know how normal people build both. The whole point of this is I am not a normal person so please no one give me advice in that regard. I don't want it, I've probably already heard it, probably already tried it, and you're probably wrong.


All I'm trying to do is explain that life is very hard for me more often than not and, while I admit the idea was kind of impulsive, I'm not just some random lazy bitch that thinks it would be nice if I could have a dog go and retrieve a beer for me while I'm watching TV.


All that being said, I used the grocery store example because it is a necessity that requires multiple steps. Lets say I got to feeling bad in the store and loading the groceries is just miserable, I can't do it at a reasonable pace and I know that if I don't do it just right (or sometimes even if I do) I can hurt myself. When I get home, I'm exhausted but I am at the most difficult part. I either have to make multiple trips to and from the car and the house, and then pack them all in the fridge and freezer (half the time I leave dry goods sitting when I get like that) or I have to try to superman it and carry everything all at once. I've busted a few things like that. I used that example because, at that point, I can go and get the dog to carry them inside. I've seen dogs trained to retrieve things from vehicles. And I also realized how I could get a dog to do that without having the bag rip, just get it double bagged.


Any little bit of effort the dog can save me from means I have just a little bit more energy to get something else done. And decreases the chances of me feeling I need to push myself to get basic shit done. Which in turn decreases the chances of me being hurt and/or laid up.


Again the more I think about it the more it seems to just be common sense.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Re: I feel like I should get a service dog [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #24379338 - 06/05/17 11:14 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:

My childhood best friend's family fostered/trained seeing eye dogs. They would get them as puppies, do early socialization and basic training. Then after 9 months the dog would leave to do more intensive Guide Dog training.





This is the kind of information I'm really looking for. How to do it's training, when to start it, what the pace needs to be. I'm pretty well set on getting a rescue dog, or from a friend or family friend that happens to have puppies. No pet stores or puppy mills. Like I said I was already planning on getting a dog, a big dog, to have a better sense of security at home and to lessen loneliness.

My partner is not moving in with me for some time, for a number of reasons, including her being out of state, but even if she did her health is not much better than mine. She has very prominent scoliosis and carpal tunnel so I don't want to and am not really able to lean on her but so much.


It's all the more reason to get us a little helper. I'm going to get the pup regardless, will have to take care of it regardless, it only makes sense to have it take care of us as well.


I will continue to research and see what I can do.


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          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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