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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Tulipslave]
    #24552694 - 08/14/17 08:18 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Just going to play devil's advocate here for a moment...

Quote:

In most places, BTC is valued in USD




As of this writing, bitcoin is traded predominantly in JPY (accounting for approximately 42% of global trading volume vs the USD's 24% share).  It is also considered legal tender by the Japanese government, and there are indeed many businesses that will accept bitcoin outright all over the world.  Even major online outlets such as Overstock, Expedia and Newegg accept bitcoin.

Quote:

If all other dominant currencies failed, BTC would be worthless, aside from being a "collectible", until the majority of BTC holders and users AGREED that BTC has value apart from other fiats and agreed upon what its value would be.




One of the central tenets of bitcoin is that it is not subject to the same type of overt manipulation as government backed fiat currencies.  So while "dominant currencies" are subject to losing purchasing power through inflation and may collapse based on a lack of trust in, or mismanagement by their custodial governments (i.e. central banks), bitcoin has no inherent connection to any governing body, is decentralized, deflationary and arguably one of the only truly global currencies.  In this respect, one would assume that BTC would have a relatively easy time maintaining its place as a tool for storing/transferring value.

On the other hand, if all fiat currencies were to fail, that would likely indicate a significant macro problem that could potentially disrupt electronic networks, which would ultimately be BTC's undoing, as it relies on global electrical and networked communication infrastructure to maintain its decentralized status.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: geokills]
    #24552729 - 08/14/17 08:39 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you for informing me.  I was not aware Japan held the higher proportion of trade value in BTC.  However, is BTC valued in BTC or is it valued in Yen?  One still cannot negate that USD is the current world reserve currency.


As far as those companies accepting BTC, I acknowledge that.  However, are they selling items based on a separate price-system for BTC, excluding the discount some companies seem to be offering as incentive to use BTC over a credit or debit card, or does the price work out the same in BTC as it would in USD or JPY?


Example: Does a motherboard valued at $200 USD on newegg sell for .04646753/.04646754 BTC?  or does it sell for .035 BTC or .05 BTC?  (Based on a value of $4304.08 USD as of this posting on https://coinmarketcap.com/)



Aside, with the fork of BTC into BCC, how does that not rival, if not equate, to a fiat proudcer printing out more fiat from nothing?  BCC created what, 19.5 million coins from nothing, with "X" amount of coins to be mined in the future?  Given, BCC is not BTC, but you likely see where my thought-process is leading.  What is an average cost of converting BCC into BTC?  Beyond governmental regulation, one reason to have a standardized form of currency is to eliminate all the costs of conversion that can play a minor role in inflationary/deflationary trends.  If one has 1000 "brands" of cryptos in circulation, and vendor "A" accepts "brand A", vendor "B" accepts "brand B", and so on, the value of one's money decreases with each additional visit to a vendor that does not accept their currently held form of currency.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Tulipslave]
    #24552829 - 08/14/17 09:44 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

BCH, what some call bcc, was a new alt crypto coin created out of thin air the same way all new coins are created. It only has value in what people are willing to pay for it, same as btc. Same as fiat in that regard, fiat is only worth what the market says its worth. If a new car is $30k today and same car was 20k years ago, then fiat has lost 1/3 of its value in that time. People say the car has gone up in price but actually the dollar has weakened. Granted new cars have extra features but we will ignore that for the moment.

BTC has gone up and up since its inception. Yesterday I was cheering the fact it had gone back up over 4k. Today its well over 4200 and as always, headed up. It seems the bold and reckless investor will have cleaned up on bitcoin. That would describe me perhaps. In fact since yesterday I made another 13k roughly in one day. Of course thats all just on paper but I could cash out at any time. Keeping it in coin means I profit from any rise, of course if it falls, my paper profit goes up in smoke at least until it rises again. All aboard the bitcoin train. Next stop prosperity ville and on to the moon.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineIntense City
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24554005 - 08/14/17 06:40 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Take $/£1000, invest in bitcoin. Wait until it rises to 10000, cash out 9000. remaining 1000 grows, reaches 10000, withdraw 9000. Don't be greedy, be clever ;P


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Intense City]
    #24554066 - 08/14/17 06:59 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

That will work but what if you ARE greedy? Better if you put 1k in, it grows to 10k, take the 1k out and let the rest work for you. If it keeps growing then it might be 100k someday when you retire. Or more


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24554687 - 08/14/17 11:18 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Bitcoin has the potential to displace the USD as the world's reserve currency. Bitcoin could cause the USD to tank. Just because bitcoin is at present converted to USD when online transactions take place, doesn't mean it always will be, or that it is in any way 'tied' or 'pegged' to the USD.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
    #24555240 - 08/15/17 08:41 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Bitcoin has the potential to displace the USD as the world's reserve currency. Bitcoin could cause the USD to tank. Just because bitcoin is at present converted to USD when online transactions take place, doesn't mean it always will be, or that it is in any way 'tied' or 'pegged' to the USD.




It is in the process of doing that right now. I think paper and metal currency will always be around because what if the internet was down? What if you are so poor you have no smart phone or lost it? There will always be pockets of resistance to new technology.

Coin has pulled back a bit. Haven't checked kraken which often is higher. So on paper I lost maybe 13k. Not a good days pay at all, lol. The 4k mark was more of a psychological cash in point than was anticipated. It went past it twice and then pulled back each time as more people realized how high it had gotten and decided to cash out. This could happen again but there is so much buying pressure that its merely a matter of time before it goes past it and keeps going.

I suspect 5k too will be a barrier since those who didn't cash at 4k say I could sure use a cruise, a new car etc and its free cause coin went up.

One factor that is coming into play is that coin is in more and more hands. Back in the day it was not unusual for someone to have 1000 btc. 100 btc was less than $1k and people bought and sold large amounts. Now more people have a few coins or less, some only perhaps .1 or less. As people with larger amounts sell off parts of their stash, this process will continue.

As people who bought coin cheap cash out or become confirmed hodlers, the majority will be those who bought at a higher price, perhaps over 2k or 3k. If you paid 4k and it goes it 4.5k, you are not so flabbergasted and less eager to cash in and run out to buy some luxury. Greater dispersion means a whale can't crash or shoot up the price as easily.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineqman
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge] * 2
    #24555570 - 08/15/17 11:21 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I heard that gold and silver backed crypto currencies are going to be launched in short order, I could really see those taking off in the future.

It would serve the people that are worried that Bitcoin isn't "backed by anything" and it would let the metals trade freely without central bank intervention.

I see the merger of these two alternatives coming together as fiat paper goes into the final decline. Nature is already preparing for the new system as the governments are still trying to hold up the old system.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: qman]
    #24555603 - 08/15/17 11:38 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

We have gold efts now, so called paper gold and few trust them. A crypto currency "backed" by gold or silver is not a crypto currency. You have to redeem it and its just another form of paper gold. They say china is looking into a gold backed currency, saddam was too just before by coincidence he got killed.

Gold has had its day and will always be valuable but not as currency very much.

What is to stop them from issuing a load of coin with no gold behind it? Or the usual fractional reserve trick and maybe 10% will be backed by gold. Lets say you have 1 gld worth 1 oz gold, but you want the gold. Do you have to go to china, pay a high fee to get it, wait weeks to have it sent? There was a thing called bitgold a while back, it fell apart


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24564562 - 08/19/17 08:45 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Coin has made its much anticipated pullback. Looks like geo was right when he sold recently. It dropped some 10% which is fairly big, but not as big as the 20%+ dips it has made in the past. I think the fact it went over 4k so fast triggered the cashout instinct in many investors. Grab the loot before it gets away. Now we have to wonder if the drop in the last day or so will convince those on the fence that a bigger drop is underway or that it will even go back to 1k or something?

I'm fairly sure 1k is out of reach, likely 3k is also out of reach. There is a lot of buying pressure or the cashout people would have dominated by now. The price has been wobbling a lot the last few days, going down and bobbing back up as bulls and bears battle it out. Smart money sees that technical problems with btc have been largely solved and the blueprint for further improvements has been laid out. Those selling have been mostly people who bought cheap and can't believe it will go higher plus technical people who anticipated a drop. I too quit buying but after the latest dip I will now buy again. Even buying at 4.4k was not a bad move if you are in for the long term. If you are scalping profits it makes perfect sense to sell at that point.

Emotion may dominate in the near future. The ones selling now are mostly those who bought cheap and a few who panic when they see a drop of any kind. Those will tend to fuel a selloff which convinces more to sell. Otoh, a substantial drop like this triggers the greed in long term and savvy investors. They have seen it bounce back from every single drop and go even higher. They know the fundamentals are sound so see it as a buying opportunity. It may dip further but my advice is to buy at this time. If you are super cautious wait a day or two to see if it stabilizes around 4k or lower. But then if it shoots up as it has lately after every small dip you miss the chance to buy at a discount.

Most savvy investors who have been following btc think the long term outlook is bullish. Its going to be hard for a few panic sellers and profit takers to drive it down much further. Geo, your goal of 2800 will not happen. I hate to see a fellow shroomerite miss out on the big rise to come so hopefully you will agree this is a good time to rebuy and lock in your recent profits while being in position to cash in more later. My 'over the top' enthusiasm has been right so far.

Who thinks it will hit 10k by years end?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24565755 - 08/19/17 05:46 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I bought some at around 3940, but just .7 something. Its already gone back up well over 4100 probably over 4200 on kraken. I said do not delay, those dips don't last forever. That might be the low point and never get back down.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24594434 - 08/31/17 08:18 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I tried telling people to buy when it dips a little bit like that but not sure if they believed me. Well, its up to 4761 now. When ya gonna get onboard?

I do think we will hit resistance at 5k. We hit some when it crossed 4k, it kept going up, sliding back, going up, etc. Now it just goes up and up. I keep buying more myself. After it breaks through the 5k mark it will keep on chugging until it gets near 10k. It might be there by end of this year, some think it will take until late next year. They could both be too short sighted, it may take off like a rocket. It might be around 50k by end of next year.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24596641 - 09/01/17 05:57 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Did I say 4700 and something? Its over 4900 now today as we speak. Instead of following the old pattern of going up then going back down, it is going more or less straight up and the dips are small rather than large percentage wise. Get back in geo or you will be kicking yourself later.

I still suspect some pullback at around 5k. Right now those cashing in are over balanced by those who want it either as investment or to buy something. When it hits 5k as it likely will before the week is over, it will probably just jitter back and forth for a week or so like it did at 4k. Then 6k will be no barrier and on to the moon!


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisibledeadwk
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24600953 - 09/03/17 03:24 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, absolutely yes. You would be insanely unwise to not put money into bitcoin. Bitcoin is not going away, yes it may fork a bunch like bitcoin cash, but, it will always be around in some manner. Stores around here accept it, there are also some ATMs near my house.

Invest in Bitcoin, whether it be $10/month or $10/year you would be silly not to frankly.


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OfflineLiaam
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: deadwk]
    #24637371 - 09/17/17 08:56 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I think yes. This article https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/ proves that investing in bitcoins is easy and it's a good income


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OfflineCLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Liaam]
    #24637454 - 09/17/17 09:32 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I hope bitcoin is still valid even when the Chinese banned it. Also, I read an article something about bitcoin being some sort of pyramid scheme? But regardless, if people are making money off it as some form of commodity, more power to the winners.

Anyone here read more about a possible rival of Bitcoin called Kin?


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
    #24637912 - 09/17/17 12:29 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

From what I see Bitcoin will not be more affected by the Chinese regulations than it already has. I'd buy the dip honestly..
An kin is simply a new ico offered by a company/app called kik. Which is supposedly a bigger/ish messenger app active in a couple other countries besides America , similar to whatsapp..
They are just gonna offer a token and hope to build the kik app into an "ecosystem" if (d)apps they hope to all eventually use kin as the coin of commerce amongst those in such an ecosystem..
More than an alt to Bitcoin. It's using the ethereum tech to try to build on the blockchain.. I cannot remember from reading so much f they are erc20 token or if they are gonna have their own protocol/blockchain. Which is what the tezos is offering. Except that with teZos the coin holders will be the "rulers" of the blockchain via voting power as o where the chain goes.. And how..
So it's a very fast ballfield and China is a decent portion but you won't see this stuff fade out in general, ever. I believe blockchain tech is the next big business step for the globe..

Cheers


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OfflineJbigtree
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: ashfiken]
    #24638000 - 09/17/17 12:56 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Just throwing it out there I have been playing with crypto for about two years.... Monitor/BTC/Doge 60$ a year and a half is still 370$ today... I personally believe it's going to happen one of two ways. #1 media & the government will continue to demonize crypto because it's real in drug deals and it's presences adds extra security that makes catching users and dealers harder. Now this is what has been happening and it has only helped BTC grow it has surged 250% within the last 6 months. What they seem to not realize is any publicity is good for dnm. #2 all large governments join forces and make crypto illegal. Which is highly unlikely as the us gov has made a statement that they don't intend to do this anytime soon. (If anyone needs a reference I can locate it just don't feel like digging around for it rn) Even if this did happen. Big fucking whoop people would operate out of countries that allowed it and would use banks located in that country..... So short answer is yes it's a sound investment that will continue to hold its value due to the black market. If someone is willing to trade .02btc for an oz of boomers that makes it valued and it will continue to be.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Jbigtree]
    #24639226 - 09/17/17 08:50 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I was gonna buy 20 bitcoins when it was at $50 but Enlil talked me out of it. :shakefist:


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Invisibledeadwk
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Middleman]
    #24639257 - 09/17/17 09:00 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

CryptoCurrency isn't going away EVER.
The Blockchain technology underlying some of these cryptocurrencies is simply too powerful to throw away. Blockchain technology really is revolutionary. Whether or not cryptocurrencies in their current form will persist for years to come who knows.

Side Note: I do program on-chain for a living so I might be a little bias, but the amount of work being created by Blockchain technology, and the amount of money flowing through it is simply too great to stop. Every day I'm constantly getting pinged by bots I've written about new jobs being created in the Blockchain space. Usually I get around 30-40 notifications a day.

However that being said I do think we are still years, if not decades away before cryptocurrencies become mainstream. I was on a bus full of people today talking to my friend I've been helping invest in CryptoCurrencies, and every single person on that bus looked at me as if I was a fucking lunatic, and I live in a city with a very well established crypto community.


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