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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT] * 1
    #24423588 - 06/21/17 11:21 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

it is treated technically under the IRS as personal property, sort of like gold and silver, which are capital assets. When you make an exchange involving gold silver or the cryptocurrency, you have a taxable gain or loss, that must be reported if that gain or loss is "material". Material meaning, significant enough to be reported. you would report an $8000 gain(in USD) on the purchase of a new Jeep Wrangler with Bitcoin. But you would not report a $0.20 gain on the purchase of a pack of gum with Bitcoin.

Crypto currencies are traded on exchanges much like stocks, but the crypto exchanges are open 24/7 baby! the buy and sell orders do dictate the value of it in real time, in terms of U.S dollars, like stocks. The difference being that stocks represent ownership interests in companies, which manage assets and/or operations of some sort. They include voting rights, and pay dividends in some cases. you are also liable for the debts of the company, limited to the extent of your share. Bitcoin and like instruments are designed to be currencies: vehicles for exchange, instruments of commerce. Many are also designed to be finite in quantity, and therefore deflationary in a growing economy (if accepted as currency). As a result speculators are coming from far and wide to speculate on both the short-term and long-term.


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How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (06/21/17 12:23 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
    #24424384 - 06/21/17 04:39 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CLIT said:
paypal has physical cards now. LOL.

one liquor store I came across shows they accept bitcoin. So if I were to pay for goods there, do I pay from my "digital wallet" to their "digital wallet"? Is it an app?

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Its all digital dude. Bitcoin debit card LOL. Those dont exist yet. Its basically payal, only encypted.

Not sure what stores accept it, but u take from your "digital wallet" to pay for stuff.








Yep. Pretty much. Never used bitcoin to pay for physical goods myself, but I know a guy who's used a bitcoin ATM where he basically keyed in his account info and got USD out at current exchange rates. Some hippy gas station out in Washington or Oregon a few years back.

Quote:

CLIT said:
Is the rise and fall of value based on how many people are buying and selling it kinda like the stock market, but it's not a stock market, right? From what I understand for something to be in the stock market, it has to be a company or a business. Does bitcoin or other cryptocurrency then falls under as a "commodity" much like gold?




Legally, I'm not quite certain, but it is definitely not considered currency by the IRS. I believe that it is considered a commodity, but with similar rules and regulations as those that apply to stock. I am also not certain of legal differences between stock and gold, as far as I know you pay capital gains tax on both.

It is considered currency in Japan though!


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Kryptos]
    #24426137 - 06/22/17 09:08 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

They actually tax long-term gains of gold and silver at 28%, which is damn near twice the regular capital gains tax.

Gold and Silver used to be legal tender in the United States, much like bitcoin is now in Japan. We could be on the brink of something that will change the course of history. Nobody can be certain how it will all shake out, but crypto-currencies have the potential to displace the present day currencies of the world. Just about every country in the modern world manages a currency by fiat, with no actual physical commodity backing it. Much like Bitcoin, the only thing that gives value to the dollars we spend, is the fact that others accept it. If people stop using a currency to exchange, the currency is worth nothing. Crypto-currencies could gain favor to the demise of our current currencies.

This is a problem I see with the USD, but it is also a problem that has the potential to effect bitcoin as well. Emerging cryptocurrencies are legion, and even though bitcoin is finite, the competing currencies, which do the exact same thing, can actually inflate, or reduce, the value of bitcoin; but it really all depends on acceptance. If people reject new competing currencies, and trust in the ingenious, no-management style of bitcoin or litecoin, the new currencies could restore good fiscal management to the governments of all nations. If the market forces countries to back their currencies in bitcoin, they will not be able to fund costly and wasteful programs, because their credit will be limited. Those who save money, would not see it inflated away, but rather appreciate to an extent according to the growth in the world economy.


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How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (06/22/17 09:10 AM)


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Offlinetwoones
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
    #24426721 - 06/22/17 01:57 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

very good response.

Currency by fiat is ridiculous. The benefit of crypto currencies is the decentralized system and the mechanical nature of their supply absolutely.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
    #24497330 - 07/20/17 09:02 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Excellent info in this thread. Amp, you are well informed

Once people see the fraud that has been put on them by govt inflating currency, they will flock to cryptocoins. That will stop a large part of govt theft, they will keep coming up with new ways to do it. But fiat has been a multi trillion dollar scam for too long and its time is ending someday.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24497606 - 07/20/17 11:15 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Nah, inflation is good. Inflation keeps the economy going. Overall, it also equalizes the world. $7k used to buy you a nice house, now it buys you a used car. This levels the playing field for the young'uns who don't have a massive fortune (Read: $100 in 1700s money).

Inflation also keeps people active in the market. Wealth generates wealth, so if there was absolutely no inflation, You would eventually have three rockefellers or Rothschilds (by the way, anyone see they're apparently the first trillionaires?) or Carnegie-Mellons, and they'd permanently run the world. Or, more realistically, everyone else would just stop using bitcoin because it is absurdly expensive, and suddenly they would become worthless.

I'm thinking that around 2140, you'll wanna start getting out of bitcoin.


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Kryptos]
    #24499343 - 07/21/17 05:46 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Inflationary monetary policy is what has created huge wealth inequality.

When the U.S. wants to spend $6 billion/year on wars, or bail out a major lending institution, they realize that raising taxes directly would be quite unfavorable. They instead find recourse in creating the money; or what's worse - they have a system of private banks create the money and lend it to them. Instead of seeing a line on your paycheck that says "War Tax" or "Freddy Mac bailout", they just clandestinely fund these endeavors by confiscating your savings. They confiscate your savings by making your money worth less. They make your money worth less by inflating the currency. The allocation of the new currency into the hands of the elite is what creates the inequality. Instead of bailing out the lending and mortgaging institutions, it would have been better to bailout the homeowners, but that isn't where they wanted the wealth to go.

I haven't heard sound justification on why our standard monetary policy shouldn't be to attempt to match the increases in the money supply, to the rate of economic growth. No amount of additional money can ever increase the existing capital in an economy. Additional money, over and above what is necessary for circulating the goods in services in the economy, can only divert that capital into channels which it otherwise would not have gone.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (07/21/17 06:15 PM)


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
    #24499388 - 07/21/17 06:13 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

https://blog.bitmain.com/en/uahf-contingency-plan-uasf-bip148/

Anyone interested in bitcoin needs to read this. There is some serious shit set to go down with bitcoin on Aug 1st.

There seems to be some centralization and planning taking place as there are programmers and other big players who have agreed to develop a plan to scale-up bitcoin in the future. From what I have gathered, though I lack the intimate blockchain knowledge needed to fully understand it, is that they are going to be "forking" the blockchain intentionally (UASF). Others have made a plan to block that fork, by forking again (UAHF). Coinbase recently sent out an email saying that they were not going to comply with the "User Activated Hard Fork" and that anyone with bitcoin in Coinbase needs to remove it before AUG 1 if they intend to have access to both moieties of the split, as coinbase has made its mind up in the event that the UAHF activates.

But like I said, its really hard for me to understand all of this for want of a computer science degree. That is some esoteric shit in that article.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (07/21/17 07:40 PM)


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
    #24499539 - 07/21/17 07:41 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

This will really help clear up all of the confusion.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2012799.0

Although after reading through the thread, they have already addressed this issue (I'm not going to get into it) and Aug 1st might be averted. 

Perhaps the news caused a bit of an overreaction, the markets have been a little wild lately.


Edited by amp244 (07/21/17 07:52 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
    #24514008 - 07/28/17 01:12 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Interestingly, the markets seem to have calmed pre-fork. I am surprised by this, I was expecting the 1800-2700 swing to be the beginning in some crazy value shifts around the fork, but it seems to have settled.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Kryptos]
    #24514367 - 07/28/17 04:44 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I was able to buy today at a small discount. I have over 46 btc now. I may rue the day I bought them or it may be a wise move. Coin has gone up some today, nearly 2800 now. I either clean up or go down with the ship. Actually I already cleaned up, I'm just reinvesting some of my profit in hopes of more. Cue evil laugh HA HA HA HA HA


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24514755 - 07/28/17 07:24 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24515238 - 07/29/17 12:12 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I was able to buy today at a small discount. I have over 46 btc now. I may rue the day I bought them or it may be a wise move. Coin has gone up some today, nearly 2800 now. I either clean up or go down with the ship. Actually I already cleaned up, I'm just reinvesting some of my profit in hopes of more. Cue evil laugh HA HA HA HA HA





So youre going to hold regardless of fork? I suppose you will be credited with 46 Bitcoin Cash as well. Could be a wise move, especially long term.


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
    #24515377 - 07/29/17 02:54 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Bitcoin and things like it are meaningfully technologically superior to existing monetary systems and will eventually replace them in the long run. But you're talking a very long time from now.

Right now, bitcoin is practically useless, and is overvalued IMO, and due for a correction.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: nooneman]
    #24515520 - 07/29/17 06:41 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/07/26/billionaire-investor-marks-who-called-the-dotcom-bubble-says-bitcoin-is-a-pyramid-scheme.html

Quote:

In my view, digital currencies are nothing but an unfounded fad (or perhaps even a pyramid scheme), based on a willingness to ascribe value to something that has little or none beyond what people will pay for it," Marks wrote in the investor letter Wednesday.




Ignoring the pyramid scheme part of his comment, isn't the rest essentially true for most investments? I mean if you buy stock, invest in currency, buy collectible baseball cards... all those things only have value if other people are willing to pay for them. So what's the difference?


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24515684 - 07/29/17 08:36 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

>all those things only have value if other people are willing to pay for them

Exactly, same as with gold, diamonds, bitcoins, etc.

>Bitcoin and things like it are meaningfully technologically superior to existing monetary systems and will eventually replace them in the long run. But you're talking a very long time from now.

If the world economy has a major shake up and fiat takes a nose dive, it may not take as long as some people think. Its already taking the place of fiat in certain areas. One problem with btc taking over all money is the fact there is so little coin available. Out of 21 million there might be 10 million in circulation right now, just guessing. Many coins were lost when wallets were lost or have not been mined yet. Each coin would have to be worth a billion dollars to do the job. People would be spending a fraction of a satoshi.

I don't think it will go that far but I really doubt it will crash and I'm bullish on the future. I have no idea if btcc will do much. Don't leave your coin on an exchange when tuesday comes, keep it in a private wallet. The btcc might be worth just as much and that doubles the supply of coin available though I don't think btcc will be worth a lot right away. May be a few cents at first just like btc was.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #24515706 - 07/29/17 08:50 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-buy-bitcoin-using-coinbase-2017-2/#instead-i-decide-to-sell-off-immediately-but-not-before-shedding-a-single-tear-for-the-12-cents-ive-already-had-to-part-with-14

Quote:

To sell the bitcoin, Coinbase only allows users to pair their bank account with the app; a credit or debit card won't suffice.




Is that still the case?


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24515770 - 07/29/17 09:31 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I bought coin on CB with a credit card within the month


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: ManianFH]
    #24515780 - 07/29/17 09:36 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

What about selling it?


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #24515791 - 07/29/17 09:45 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Avoid coinbase, use localbitcoins or paxful. CB keeps all your info and hands it over to the govt.

Btc-e shut down and ran off with the money, when will cb do the same? Many people say they have been scammed already by cb


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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