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CLIT
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Is Bitcoin actually a good investment?
#24369815 - 06/02/17 03:12 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just read this article titled:
If you bought $100 of bitcoin 7 years ago, you'd be sitting on $72.9 million now after new record high
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bought-100-bitcoin-7-years-081422112.html
So if I bought $100 of bitcoin 7 years ago, I would have $72.9 million dollars of real money or nothing more than just "value" on paper? What could I actually buy with 72.9 million dollars worth of bitcoins other than darknet drugs? Although, to my surprise I've seen some retailers online that actually accept bitcoins now, like Sweetwater (they sell musical instruments, etc.). So would the $100 investment actually be worth $72.9 million dollars of real, spendable money?
I have not bought or used bitcoins before so where do I actually buy it?
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Kryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24377454 - 06/04/17 06:24 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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What's the difference between real money and "value" on paper? If my computer screen says I have $100 in my bank, that is not significantly different from a crisp new hundred.
Yes, the article is saying that you could have bought bitcoins 7 years ago for 100$, and then sold them today for ~70 mil. That would then become real, spendable, money that you can give the cashier at the store.
Where to buy bitcoins is up to you. Google "bitcoin exchange". It's a bit like walking into a bank and buying foreign currency. Well, the online version of walking into a bank, at least. Personally, I use coinbase as it is the biggest exchange, and theoretically more stable than others. Not sure about posting referral links here what with forum rules, but PM me and I'll send ya a link that will give you $10 worth of bitcoin for signing up.
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ChRnZN
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24377533 - 06/04/17 06:50 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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That figure does not represent any real indication of where the bitcoin market is going in the future. The fact is we don't know where it is going, just like we didn't know where it was going 7 years ago.
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Kryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: ChRnZN]
#24377637 - 06/04/17 07:23 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'd argue that is true only in the most technical sense of the word. Just like how the sun could just spontaneously nova us out of existence.
the fact is, that articles like that, with big, 8 figure profit margins, drive interest, and interest drives investment, which then drives the price up. Remember that jump to 2800? that was (I believe) caused by that one celebrity gambler, Dan Blitzkrieger or something like that, tweeting or instagrammming about his buying of bitcoin. Within two hours after his social media post to his 8 figure follower count, bitcoin jumped 600$ in price, and the trading volume doubled. Of course, shortly thereafter, it crashed back to it's usual price, as the market corrected itself.
I'm sure Dan cashed out before the followup drop, and now happily counts his follower's money in his bank account.
My overall point is that as more articles like this get published, more people are going to get interested, and more people are gonna lose money. This money is all there for you to take.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24378513 - 06/05/17 04:43 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its a currency that u exchange real money with.
My coworker just explained why $100 of bitcoins 7 years ago is now worth 7 million. Its basically because the bitcoins had to be split into multiple parts and so if u bought one bitcoin for $100 7 years ago, u would have like 1000 bitcoins today or something like that.
Bitcoins are a very very long set of numbers that need to be deciphered by computers basically. And with each transaction, they get longer and longer.....
Not too many places use bitcoin, but that will change over time. More places will accept it. But for now its in a new niches like RC drugs, darknet drugs and some businesses too. I even heard it mentioned on a millionaire dollar real estate tv show.
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demiu5
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Kryptos]
#24378702 - 06/05/17 07:12 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: I'd argue that is true only in the most technical sense of the word. Just like how the sun could just spontaneously nova us out of existence.
the fact is, that articles like that, with big, 8 figure profit margins, drive interest, and interest drives investment, which then drives the price up. Remember that jump to 2800? that was (I believe) caused by that one celebrity gambler, Dan Blitzkrieger or something like that, tweeting or instagrammming about his buying of bitcoin. Within two hours after his social media post to his 8 figure follower count, bitcoin jumped 600$ in price, and the trading volume doubled. Of course, shortly thereafter, it crashed back to it's usual price, as the market corrected itself.
if anything this proves that bitcoin is just as susceptible to drastic, quick rises and falls based on rumor/speculation, just like any other stock/commodity/currency. it doesn't prove or even suggest that it will continue to increase in market price
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qman
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: demiu5] 1
#24379267 - 06/05/17 10:36 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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You have to ask yourselves why these crypto-currencies are making all-times highs? It's not just a game of chicken taking place, it's the beginning of the rejection of government currencies.
People in China, Japan and other places in the world are looking for a place to get out of cash, so far it has been these crypto-currencies.
So I believe there are actual fundamentals behind these upward moves, that doesn't mean these things won't get overvalued at some point down the road.
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Kryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: qman]
#24379296 - 06/05/17 10:49 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Its a currency that u exchange real money with.
My coworker just explained why $100 of bitcoins 7 years ago is now worth 7 million. Its basically because the bitcoins had to be split into multiple parts and so if u bought one bitcoin for $100 7 years ago, u would have like 1000 bitcoins today or something like that.
Bitcoins are a very very long set of numbers that need to be deciphered by computers basically. And with each transaction, they get longer and longer.....
Nope. False. All of that is false (except the first sentence). Bitcoins do not multiply. The best real world analogy to bitcoins is probably gold or other precious metal investments. As for transactions and bitcoins getting longer, that's just a bastardization of the blockchain idea. The point is that the blockchain is a complete ledger of every single transaction, and a bitcoin is a unit of, effectively, processing power (CPU) or "work", where computers will calculate out the blockchain and generate bitcoins as a result according to a specific mathematical formula that I don't understand, but will continue to generate bitcoins up until ~2140. At this point, there should be 21 million total bitcoins in circulation. Compare that to today's 16.3 million, and some of the price increases make a lot more sense.
Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: [quote deleted for readability, go up two posts]
if anything this proves that bitcoin is just as susceptible to drastic, quick rises and falls based on rumor/speculation, just like any other stock/commodity/currency. it doesn't prove or even suggest that it will continue to increase in market price
Yes. However, as history has shown, stocks don't go down in price over time. If I dumped all my money on the stock market in 2006, literally the day before the crash, I would be looking at profit by selling today. Assuming, of course, that I was invested in a broad index fund that tracked the whole market, and not a company or three that went under.
Quote:
qman said: You have to ask yourselves why these crypto-currencies are making all-times highs? It's not just a game of chicken taking place, it's the beginning of the rejection of government currencies.
People in China, Japan and other places in the world are looking for a place to get out of cash, so far it has been these crypto-currencies.
So I believe there are actual fundamentals behind these upward moves, that doesn't mean these things won't get overvalued at some point down the road.
A good chunk of the reasoning behind the sudden jump at the beginning of May was likely the adoption of bitcoin as a legal currency by Japan in April. China, on the other hand (and its population), has significantly reduced its bitcoin holdings (I wanna say from ~55% of all the bitcoin to about 10% now, read something about that a bit ago). This is caused by increased bitcoin regulation and a nationwide crackdown on bitcoin exchanges. Of course, I'm pretty sure that the rich still are buying up a bunch of bitcoins...
I think Trump is another reason for the bitcoin jump. His inability to deliver on the most basic of republican deregulation promises (and healthcare, and tax reform...) has caused the stock market to stop rising, and his more recent policies have sent the dollar into a downward spiral. This raises the bitcoin price, as even if the "true value" didn't change, relative to the dollar, it did.
Things are more than likely going to be overvalued several times down the road. Again, that 2800 spike comes to mind. On the other hand, bitcoin has continued to rise steadily since the correction to 2100, and is almost back there again.
Edited by Kryptos (06/05/17 10:52 AM)
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qman
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Kryptos]
#24379347 - 06/05/17 11:18 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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"caused the stock market to stop rising"
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dow-briefly-sets-intraday-record--joining-sp-500-and-nasdaq--in-choppy-trade-2017-06-02 The Dow, SP 500 and Nasdaq all hit all-time highs last week.
"dollar into a downward"
Yep, the dollar has traded lower lately, but that move doesn't account for the spike in bitcoin this year.
I think the most important aspect is the potential trend it's forecasting, the rejection of government based currencies. In my opinion, gold and silver will be in next beneficiaries of this trend.
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Kryptos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: qman]
#24381096 - 06/05/17 10:34 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "caused the stock market to stop rising"
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dow-briefly-sets-intraday-record--joining-sp-500-and-nasdaq--in-choppy-trade-2017-06-02 The Dow, SP 500 and Nasdaq all hit all-time highs last week.
"dollar into a downward"
Yep, the dollar has traded lower lately, but that move doesn't account for the spike in bitcoin this year.
I think the most important aspect is the potential trend it's forecasting, the rejection of government based currencies. In my opinion, gold and silver will be in next beneficiaries of this trend.
Haven't paid much attention to the stock market index after the Comey firing, I just noticed that it seemed to bounce back less and less after every scandal, and it didn't bounce back all the way after Comey.
I think it is far too early to tell if this is a trend toward rejecting government currency, because bitcoin, and cryptocurrency as a whole, is worth maybe a quarter of a trillion dollars (very generous), compared to even a conservative estimate as to the value of all the currency, which comes in at a quarter of a quadrillion, or three orders of magnitude greater.
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: ChRnZN]
#24409504 - 06/16/17 05:24 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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So it could go either way: down or up?
If $20 of "real money" is worth less than what I could buy that with as bitcoins, then it's a no brainer, that it's best to buy bitcoins. If that's how it works?
I've seen the bitcoin sign in a liquor store/lottery convenience store.
Quote:
Noodle473 said: That figure does not represent any real indication of where the bitcoin market is going in the future. The fact is we don't know where it is going, just like we didn't know where it was going 7 years ago.
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ChRnZN
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24409576 - 06/16/17 06:43 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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It could go either way, yes. I say that mainly because we don't know what the future holds. $20 does not get you more when you buy bitcoins unless you invest, wait, and end up making a profit with bitcoin.
Here's a newer headline that opposes some of the ideas in the first one posted in this thread
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-tumbling-111600081.html
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: Kryptos]
#24409761 - 06/16/17 08:26 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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so if one is to say that having 10 gmail accounts is worth $10 million dollars, it becomes the truth?
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
qman said: "caused the stock market to stop rising"
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dow-briefly-sets-intraday-record--joining-sp-500-and-nasdaq--in-choppy-trade-2017-06-02 The Dow, SP 500 and Nasdaq all hit all-time highs last week.
"dollar into a downward"
Yep, the dollar has traded lower lately, but that move doesn't account for the spike in bitcoin this year.
I think the most important aspect is the potential trend it's forecasting, the rejection of government based currencies. In my opinion, gold and silver will be in next beneficiaries of this trend.
Haven't paid much attention to the stock market index after the Comey firing, I just noticed that it seemed to bounce back less and less after every scandal, and it didn't bounce back all the way after Comey.
I think it is far too early to tell if this is a trend toward rejecting government currency, because bitcoin, and cryptocurrency as a whole, is worth maybe a quarter of a trillion dollars (very generous), compared to even a conservative estimate as to the value of all the currency, which comes in at a quarter of a quadrillion, or three orders of magnitude greater.
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#24409770 - 06/16/17 08:30 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Had I bought bitcoin 7 years ago worth $100 and if a home seller decides to sell me his house for $1 million, and knowing that I have several millions in bitcoin, I could easily get his house then? So it's a matter of what's acceptable at the current time?
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Its a currency that u exchange real money with.
My coworker just explained why $100 of bitcoins 7 years ago is now worth 7 million. Its basically because the bitcoins had to be split into multiple parts and so if u bought one bitcoin for $100 7 years ago, u would have like 1000 bitcoins today or something like that.
Bitcoins are a very very long set of numbers that need to be deciphered by computers basically. And with each transaction, they get longer and longer.....
Not too many places use bitcoin, but that will change over time. More places will accept it. But for now its in a new niches like RC drugs, darknet drugs and some businesses too. I even heard it mentioned on a millionaire dollar real estate tv show.
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24409786 - 06/16/17 08:43 AM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm curious if these companies accepting bitcoin as payment are opportunists who see the (over) value in bitcoin? I've seen legitimate companies accepting bitcoins as payment, like re-sellers of music instruments and local liquor stores and lottery stores.
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amp244
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT] 1
#24410585 - 06/16/17 03:35 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bitcoins are like anything that is traded in the market. The supply and demand dictates the value of them. The thing about bitcoins, despite them being another currency that is backed by nothing, is that the people who created them wrote the computer programs so that there will be a finite amount of bitcoins that can ever be mined. There is no governing body with the ability to just expand its supply for whatever reason at anytime, nobody has a monopoly on the currency, and the system is transparent.
Now that there is a growing demand for the currency (Japan has now adopted bitcoin as legal tender) and only a finite amount of possible units, the value has increased.
There are hundreds of other crypto-currencies based on the same block-chain systems. Some have unique features and could possibly displace bitcoin as the crypto-currency "gold-standard".
There is lots of uncertainty; and where there is uncertainty, there is money to be made.
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: amp244]
#24417986 - 06/19/17 02:46 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Since bitcoin is a "digital currency", how do I use it to pay for goods in a physical store? Do I get a card where my bitcoin value are stored or do I give a PIN # or some kind of code or what? I really don't know how it works. Is it physical as well or is it entirely digital?
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24418521 - 06/19/17 05:51 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its all digital dude. Bitcoin debit card LOL. Those dont exist yet. Its basically payal, only encypted.
Not sure what stores accept it, but u take from your "digital wallet" to pay for stuff.
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#24421849 - 06/20/17 07:37 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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paypal has physical cards now. LOL.
one liquor store I came across shows they accept bitcoin. So if I were to pay for goods there, do I pay from my "digital wallet" to their "digital wallet"? Is it an app?
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Its all digital dude. Bitcoin debit card LOL. Those dont exist yet. Its basically payal, only encypted.
Not sure what stores accept it, but u take from your "digital wallet" to pay for stuff.
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CLIT
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Re: Is Bitcoin actually a good investment? [Re: CLIT]
#24421879 - 06/20/17 07:46 PM (6 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is the rise and fall of value based on how many people are buying and selling it kinda like the stock market, but it's not a stock market, right? From what I understand for something to be in the stock market, it has to be a company or a business. Does bitcoin or other cryptocurrency then falls under as a "commodity" much like gold?
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