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Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Eastern Mysticism and Freewill
    #2435623 - 03/15/04 05:42 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

(This is kind of directed at The Visionare, Ped, and any others who posted along these lines in that last freewill thread)

And no played-out freewill vs. determinism banter please- ?I can freely choose? see, there I did it!? vs. ?Dude? yes even THAT act is a determined act!?

I acknowledge 2 modes of experiencing- 1) analyzing the world in terms of causality, duality, objects, time, space, physicalism, algorithms, determinism, etc. I acknowledge this view as a tool, not representative of How Things Are. 2) Non-dual, ineffable, pre-categorizing, experiencing.

So here is the freewill part. I use causality to predict, explain, describe my self and my environment. It is immensely useful, but again, I try not to mistake the map for the territory. I use the causality perspective on myself too, and I arrive at the conclusion that to the extent that I am going to acknowledge my organism as a thing (for conventional purposes), I must acknowledge that I am a caused thing. A completely independent, self-causing object does not make sense from this perspective. But, and this is important, neither does it make sense from the Non-dual, holistic perspective, because from this perspective, there are no things essentially. So from what perspective does it make sense to acknowledge free will?

Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

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Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
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Re: Eastern Mysticism and Freewill [Re: buttonion]
    #2435654 - 03/15/04 05:51 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

There is no real free will your sub-concious make all the decisions for you before you even realise it.

Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: Eastern Mysticism and Freewill [Re: EvilGir]
    #2435673 - 03/15/04 05:57 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

You seem to be under the impression the "sub-conscious" is entirely seperated and different from "you".


Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Eastern Mysticism and Freewill [Re: buttonion]
    #2436207 - 03/15/04 08:32 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

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Re: Eastern Mysticism and Freewill [Re: buttonion]
    #2436855 - 03/15/04 10:44 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

But the truth my friends is that there is no "freewill" or "determinism", just motion. All of existance/galaxy/universe, whatever, is completly filled to its max. Choc full o' particles. Since the very begingin (whatever, whenever, it occured) every particel has been movin because of a transfer of energy (Law of conservation of energy; neither created or destroyed, just transferred). So the first partical moved, which moved another particle, which moved another, which moved another, ect. Eventually, all the particles will move. So nothing is a free choice, and nothing is predetermind, it is just particles moving because they have to. each particle is being pushed by another particle into a new place. There by appearing that I choose to type this, but its not the case, the truth is that all the particles around me have moved in such a pattern, that the result is the movement of my particles to create this.

Hmmm.. does that make sence? I came up wit that idea after learning that if you knew the placement and velocity of every particle, you could theoretically predict the future. Because you could predict where every particle ends up.


~Life is one long ride, make it the best ride you can.

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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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