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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: openmind]
    #24357974 - 05/29/17 01:56 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
So....My friends and I had lots of trips that year, all the tabs of acid we ate were the same dosage of the same crystal from the same sheet. I personally had some trips with that stuff where there was the typical vasoconstriction and body load present in my lower back/neck/legs, just some general load and tension through out the body....But I also had lots of trips with that same stuff where there was absolutely zero body load, no constriction and no tension what so ever, my body felt like air, like bliss in the wind.


So from personal experience...having the same LSD from the same sheet produce body load sometimes and zero body load other times, I feel there's lots of other variables at play contributing to the body load rather than it simply coming down to "clean lsd" or "dirty lsd".



This is my experience too. Every batch of acid I've gotten has been good and clean, and from ten doses from the same sheet I've had the experience vary from absolutely zero body load to diarrhea, stomach cramps and major vasoconstriction. I've had good trips that put me in touch with the divine to negative trips where I felt fried and like I was going insane, all from the same fucking sheet. Your general health, diet, mood, other drugs, set and setting all have waaaaaay more influence on the trip than impurities. You're already dosing in micrograms, so if the impurities are even 10% of the total chemicals, that's like 10 mcg of impurities on a "100mcg" trip. That's not going to affect you in any noticeable way.  Maybe if you got really, noticeably shitty acid it would be another story, but you'd only know it was really "dirty" acid if the ill effects happened every single time without fail and you took several different trips from the same batch. Otherwise, if you're blaming all body load and bad tripping on impurities, then the only logical explanation would be that every sheet of acid has "dirty doses" and "clean doses." That's just stupid. OP, buy a sheet or a vial of good clean acid next time and take 20 trips from it over a year. You'll see that this is a bunch of baloney. It's been hashed over a million times, you'd fail the Pepsi challenge I guarantee.     
:hahthatsrich:

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Offlineendogenous
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24358013 - 05/29/17 02:36 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Space Monkey said:
Lovely, I will incorporate this prayer in future journeys. Thank-you :heart:



Also, Book 9 of the RgVeda has a total of 114 Hymns. 113 of them are titled "Soma Pavamana" (meaning the purification of Soma).

"Rigveda is one of the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language.[13] Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, most likely between c. 1500 and 1200 BC,[14][15][16] though a wider approximation of c. 1700–1100 BC has also been given."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda

"The ninth Mandala of the Rigveda, also called the Soma Mandala, has 114 hymns, entirely (although Griffith marks 9.5 as dedicated to the Apris) devoted to Sóma Pávamāna, "Purifying Soma", the sacred potion of the Vedic religion. Similar to Mandala 8, it cannot be dated within the relative chronology of the Rigveda as a whole; dealing with the Soma cult, a practice reaching back into Proto-Indo-Iranian times (late 3rd millennium BC), some of its hymns may contain the very oldest parts of the Rigveda, while other hymns may be rather recent relative to the other books."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala_9

Edited by endogenous (05/29/17 03:06 AM)

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #24358412 - 05/29/17 08:57 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

P.Zappatecorum said:
That's just stupid. OP, buy a sheet or a vial of good clean acid next time and take 20 trips from it over a year. You'll see that this is a bunch of baloney. It's been hashed over a million times, you'd fail the Pepsi challenge I guarantee.     
:hahthatsrich:





So you're pitting your own subjective experience against (not me, who the fuck cares about me) Owsley Stanley, Tim Scully, and Nick Sand? You're suggesting they didn't take high quality LSD enough (20 times a year) to make a good judgment, and if all three of them had done this they would have seen this is a bunch of baloney, and that they were stupid for believing it? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Edited by Space Monkey (05/29/17 09:31 AM)

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Offlineendogenous
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24359248 - 05/29/17 03:13 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

From TIHKAL (Shulgin) about LSD

Repeated recrystallizations from methanol produced a product that became progressively less soluble, and eventually virtually insoluble, as the purity increased. A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.

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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24360521 - 05/30/17 12:04 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Space Monkey said:
Quote:

P.Zappatecorum said:
That's just stupid. OP, buy a sheet or a vial of good clean acid next time and take 20 trips from it over a year. You'll see that this is a bunch of baloney. It's been hashed over a million times, you'd fail the Pepsi challenge I guarantee.     
:hahthatsrich:





So you're pitting your own subjective experience against (not me, who the fuck cares about me) Owsley Stanley, Tim Scully, and Nick Sand? You're suggesting they didn't take high quality LSD enough (20 times a year) to make a good judgment, and if all three of them had done this they would have seen this is a bunch of baloney, and that they were stupid for believing it? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



No, but the LSD market has changed considerably since then. When the precursors were easier to source there were far more amateurs trying to synthesize and there was probably some really nasty, dirty shit being passed around. If these guys were talking about very large doses of extremely dirty LSD feeling shitty, I believe them.

You talking about today's acid, with the precursors limited and thus the acid coming from fewer, more skilled chemists, at normal doses, I think the placebo effect is happening. LSD itself can have negative side effects, and the same batch will not always give you the same trip, all psychedelics are highly variable in their effects from trip to trip, even with the same batch and same dosing, for reasons already explained. So if you want to believe you're getting dirty acid sometimes I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I can tell you that even clean LSD is highly variable in its body load, and that's just an indisputable fact. Nice job not arguing dude. You obviously started this thread to get into arguments, this is a stale topic and you're bordering on flaming people. Get over yourself. 
:goodluckwiththat:

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #24361875 - 05/30/17 12:53 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Yes ... I have stated already ... through meditative practice or lack thereof, I feel my mind can induce body load or subjective experiences of clarity. My claim is merely that the chemical is another factor.

And, come on dude. Now you've flipped. "Oh, well, they must have had reallllly dirty stuff back in the day". I don't think so. If you listen to the interview he posted, Sand talked about how Owsley gave him a verbal boot in the ass to up the purity of his product. Maybe he had some grotesquely dirt stuff, but I don't think so. Sand was obsessed with this and believed it so fervently, he actually claims he ended up making acid that was more pure than the legally produced LSD at the time. He, at any rate, truly believed this. You're free to believe otherwise, this is why I was reluctant to debate, I don't care what you believe! Just know, these three chemists disagree with you. When I posted this, I just wanted to leave it at that, but then people started saying things like, "OP, you are clearly an idiot, go buy a sheet and take 20 trips on it, you're such a noob!" I never wanted to prop my own experience up! Someone asked me about my experience, and I certainly noted from the outset that my experience was in accordance with what these chemists said, but my personal experience was never what this post was about! I only wanted to post these chemists' experiences!

In retrospect, perhaps I ought not to have mentioned my own experience at all, simply so this thread could have remained properly oriented around these chemists' own comments. Maybe.

I'm sorry, but it seemed like a silly comment to make. I don't think that I've really flamed anyone, except perhaps you, because the comment seemed so ridiculous. But, if you were only challenging my own experience, and not these chemists', it is obviously not so silly. My apologies. But ... you seem to have altered your stated opinion ever so slightly after my response, so ... maybe not completely sorry. My comment definitely made you think more to respect the chemists' professed beliefs. That's all I've wanted from this post. I did this for the public on the internet who wanted to research the question. That's all.

Edited by Space Monkey (05/30/17 12:59 PM)

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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24362059 - 05/30/17 01:48 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Also, taking LSD frequently leads to delusional thinking. When I'm dosing frequently I start getting into some pretty silly shit, seeing connections that aren't there, thinking things are more significant than they are etc. So I don't necessarily trust anything somebody taking huge amounts of psychedelics is saying. That's my problem with McKenna. He was really smart and had a lot of brilliant ideas, but he also spouted a whole lot of bullshit. Obsessing over minutuea and thinking you can sense these subtle differences is pretty classic psychedelic mania, so I'm skeptical. If they're talking about a few micrograms of impurities dramatically affecting the trip then I call bullshit. We can agree to disagree. :shrug:

I said in my first post that "other chemicals" can influence the trip, I do think that the secondary alkaloids in cactus and mushrooms for instance, do marginally effect the trip, but not consistently and not super dramatically, such that it may be just a vague impression that "on average" ovoids vs. cubensis or peyote vs. bridgesii feel different, but you might not be able to tell which you got in a blind taste test.

LSD impurities may do the same, but they have to be there in sufficient quanitities to be medically relevant. If you're saying there's a noticeable difference between say 10mcg and 30mcg of impurities in a dose, I think you're basically pushing homeopathics. LSD itself is hardly noticeable at levels that low, and these impurities are not thought to be active on their own, so that would have to be an insane amount of synergy to make them pharmalogically significant at that low of a dose. 

What levels of impurities are these guys saying are significant? Do they ever mention quantities? I'm just looking at this rationally and from a pharmacological standpoint. It makes no sense to me.

Edited by P.Zappatecorum (05/30/17 01:51 PM)

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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #24362200 - 05/30/17 02:17 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I don't want to straw-man your argument Spacemonkey, so let me get this straight.

Is your contention that differences between say 92% and 98% pure are noticeably significant, or more in the range of say 80% pure and 98% pure?

Because in the first case scenario, with a 200mcg dose, that's 184mcg LSD and 16mcg impurities on one hand and  196mcg LSD and 4mcg impurities on the other. So assuming that in this case, the impurities create a noticeable effect, that means that 12mcg of these impurities make a profound difference on your mind and body. Those are some incredibly powerful chemicals then. I don't think you could tell the difference between the 196mcg and 184mcg doses of LSD, honestly. That's splitting hairs. 

On the other hand, let's take the second scenario and say the acid is absolute shit, there's 160mcg LSD and 40 mcg impurities vs. 196mcg LSD and 4mcg impurities, at that point you have a 36mcg difference in the doses of acid and 36mcg difference in the levels of impurities. At that point, the difference in LSD doses alone is going to be noticeable, and that's a fair amount of extra chemicals that, if working synergistically, I would say it's plausible, that you would notice a difference in body load.

So which is it you're saying? You're some kind of psychedelic wunderkind who can notice a 12 mcg difference in impurities while on a drug that gives wildly different effects even at the same dosage and purity? Or are you saying that grossly impure acid can have a noticeably larger body load? Because the first is absolute bullshit, the second I will grant that it's possible, though not certain.
:havesomescience:

Edited by P.Zappatecorum (05/30/17 02:19 PM)

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #24364177 - 05/31/17 04:39 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

In my experience, I can tell the difference between tabs. I have never sent tabs into a lab for analysis, so, I do not really know what quantities of impurities were present. I just know what was advertised. I was able to determine accurately, prior to knowing the advertised purity, what crystal I was given, once. But, it could have been a lucky guess. I only blindly tasted once, all other times I knew what was advertised. My own input doesn't count for much here.

As for Sand, Owsley, and Scully, they believed even small quantities made an effect. Your critique of their being under psychedelic delusional mania, a la McKenna, is a valid one. Thank-you for your contribution to the discussion.

By the way, something I just thought would be interesting - I wonder if people would be able to tell if, say, 5-10 ug of an ergoline such as ALD-52 or AL-LAD were added to someone's tab of, say, 100-200 ug LSD? Sand's claim seems to be that it is the sensory magnification of the LSD, PLUS the synergistic effect of the otherwise inactive chemicals that makes them noticeable to the user. A good way to test if ergolines have noticeable effects at such doses due to LSD's sensory magnification would be to simply add an ergoline we know is active already to LSD, and see what happens.

Given that LSD is active in microdoses at 5-10 ug, it would not shock me if it were noticeable, and even more noticeable due to LSD's sensory magnifying effects! And if the "inactives" are in fact active at similar doses as the rest of the psychedelic ergolines, but only in synergy with LSD ... you see where I'm going.

Of course, we'd need funds to do that study, soooo ... anyone wanna try it and post the results that we will be completely unable to accept but still probably find interesting to consider?

Edited by Space Monkey (05/31/17 04:52 AM)

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #24364179 - 05/31/17 04:42 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

P.Zappatecorum said:So which is it you're saying? You're some kind of psychedelic wunderkind who can notice a 12 mcg difference in impurities while on a drug that gives wildly different effects even at the same dosage and purity? Or are you saying that grossly impure acid can have a noticeably larger body load? Because the first is absolute bullshit, the second I will grant that it's possible, though not certain.
:havesomescience:




LSD itself is active at 5-10ug in microdosing. If the impurities such as iso-LSD and others, are active at similar doses, but only in synergy with LSD (just as many cannabinoids are only psychoactive in synergy with THC), then why not? It'd be like a microdose, but with the added sensory magnification of LSD, so it'd be that much more noticeable.

Thanks for your opposition, it helps me think. But ... no need to be mean about it :frown:

Edited by Space Monkey (05/31/17 04:51 AM)

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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24364688 - 05/31/17 09:14 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Microdosing's effects are very subtle, and it's hard to say they're more than placebo. I've experimented with microdosing. My contention is more that the effects of LSD are variable enough that while these secondary chemicals may have some small effect, it is probably not possible to differentiate between normal variation in the psychedelic experience and the slight shifts in the experience from impurities.

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InvisiblePsychonott
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #24364842 - 05/31/17 10:07 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Slightly off topic but I recently heard Sandoval was never making Anything other than lsd but in order to have a sound legal defense claimed that he was making the legal drug at that time (ald 52 or whatever its called ) but in reality he was in the process of manufacturing lsd but this was a legal defense and the lore stared


--------------------
Enlils true purpose is to get us off topic and to cast enough logical doubts so that outsiders viewing this would be more likely to side with his fake opinions rather than our or sometimes controlled opppsotions opinions.


You see if you are too skilled at not falling for their traps and stating logically sound debunks then other accounts who purposefully agree with 90% of the truth join in and get the entire topic off the main points.

It's their 1960s version of damage control and diversion but man it's painfully obvious in 2017

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OfflineHeadrush
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Psychonott] * 1
    #24368430 - 06/01/17 04:27 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

David Nichols is the most knowledgeable person on Earth in this area and he has publicly dispelled this silly myth long ago. LSD impurities are irrelevant.
This debate is as ignorant as flat Earth. LSD chemists strive for purity for the simple fact that purer crystal will lay more paper and for personal satisfaction. David Nichols also boasts he made the purest.
Ald 52 is far superior if you're concerned about less side effects.


--------------------

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Headrush]
    #24369879 - 06/02/17 04:20 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Nick Sand made and took more than Nichols... a lot more. All of them did. They were all adamant about it. Nichols is a researcher ... they were guinea pigs.

Edited by Space Monkey (06/02/17 04:21 AM)

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OfflineAkashicExplorer
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24369956 - 06/02/17 06:08 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

The best research on psychedelics, is done on oneself...

I myself tried about 5 strains of mushrooms, where golden teacher and mexicana give me wisdom (mexican enhances funny and silly too), while B+ just affects my body a little expands my mind with "psychedelic noise" (visual and auditory) and White Lighting I believe might be similar to cacti. I never tried cacti, but I have been told they make you feel very human and very connected to earth, so does White Lightning.

I have more strains to test, and then, when people ask for advice, have this personal experience. I want to infact, write a post with "A CUBE is NOT ALWAYS a CUBE. Cubes among them are not the same!"

The same goes with LSD (and any other psychedelic) in the terms of the acid itself. I cannot speak much about acid, a friend who has pure LSD will be sharing a drop (200 ug, one drop for each of course) with a couple others and me, and it will be my first time. However, I believed that acid, even pure, has the same side-effects at a body level and at a mind level than acid that is not pure. Lets not forget that psychedelics have some common side effects, and we need to know ourselves well, our substance and the provider.

Pure acid won't save you from side effect. If something, they might even maximize if the acid you took previously wasn't very pure and the added RC did not have those side effects, you never know, is always a gamble, this is why pure acid is best.

If its bitter, its a spitter.

If you have high blood pressure or heart problems:

Stay way from LSD and DMT (probably Salvia too, but not sure), period.

Do not play with your life unnecessary, if you do not smoke weed and you never did, take a couple or three hits (in a joint, weed only) or one hit in the bong. Prepare for launch, it will surprise you (but do not get used to it, tolerance builds fast) Doses of 2-3 grams of shrooms are safe for the "fast-heart-paced" and I believe that Mescaline also goes well (but never tried them yet, I do not plan to try them as I am not drawn to their humanness and earthiness, but you never know (I am actually growing one Peyote cactus, but just because the flower is very cool hahaha, but that was really the only goal, I doubt I will eat it. At least, with my current state of mind and lifestyle (I am much more of an "ET" guy and get my ass out from this planet.)


--------------------
:mushroom2: The 87 gram MushZilla BEAST  :mushroom2:

:thumbup:And it just obliterated the uttermost crap out from me.:thumbup:

Love, Bliss, Laughter and Enlightenment!

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Headrush]
    #24370717 - 06/02/17 11:46 AM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Headrush said:
David Nichols is the most knowledgeable person on Earth in this area and he has publicly dispelled this silly myth long ago. LSD impurities are irrelevant.
This debate is as ignorant as flat Earth. LSD chemists strive for purity for the simple fact that purer crystal will lay more paper and for personal satisfaction. David Nichols also boasts he made the purest.
Ald 52 is far superior if you're concerned about less side effects.




Also, source on Nichols. I know Shulgin confirmed in the TIHKAL LSD entry that the impurities are inactive when taken by themselves at any dose, but of course, if one has followed the discussion, that has been shown to not be the issue we are discussing (listen to the Nick Sand interview again if you're confused). Many cannabinoids also have no psychoactive activity by themselves at any dose, except in synergy with THC (something we all understand just from having smoked a lot of pot collectively as a culture). I am skeptical merely because, as I've mentioned a few times so far, I don't think the necessary studies have been done at all, simply because they would need to be considerably large studies...

The claim, essentially, is that the impurities are active at similar dosage levels as the other psychoactive ergolines, in the ug range, but that they only exert synergistic effect in combination with primarily active ergolines. Though present in small quantities, psychedelic ergolines in general have been shown to be active at 5-10 ug (microdoses); so it's basically a microdose of something whose only activity is synergistic, and whose microdose-level activity is made more apparent than typical microdosed substances because one is already fully high on a primarily active ergoline, meaning they would be much more sensitive and aware of a microdosed substance's effects.

This is why I would be curious if people would notice to any substantial degree the effect of, say, 5-10 ug of ALD-52 in conjunction with 100-200 ug of LSD. If it were noticeable, and one posited the impurities to only have synergistic activity, the theory is plausible, I believe. Show me the study you are referencing, and I will analyze it to see if it debunks anything, but I highly doubt it will. As people keep on saying, set and setting are major factors here, it would take a massive study to be able to safely account for these factors in the psychedelic experience. The claim is not that purity is the only factor in experiences of body load and subjective clarity; only that it is one of them.

The only people I know of who probably took enough acid whose quality was perfectly well known to even hazard a good educated guess about this, would be chemists like Sand, Owsley, and Scully. These are not rigorous studies of course, but as of now they're the best we've got, in my opinion.

By the way, to a lot of you: stop saying things like "you're a noob, buy a sheet and take 20 trips on it", or "this is as open for debate as the shape of the earth".
You're wrong. Dead wrong. You can state your reasons for believing things, but this is not a dead issue, and even if it were, rudeness is inexcusable. Please, do not get sucked into internet hatred, the reason these chemists even got into making psychedelics was so that people would stop being mean to each other. Please do not let the barrier of a screen prevent you from showing the basic courtesy, empathy, and restraint that decent human beings show to one another. This is the very reason I did not want to debate, because people on the internet get MEAN, when they otherwise would not. It's a tough thing to keep a handle on, I already laughed rudely at somebody who I felt was being mean to me, and I want things to be more socially hygienic here. I will engage with you, I will not trade insults with you, and I am not okay with being treated that way, even online. Thank-you.

Edited by Space Monkey (06/02/17 12:07 PM)

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24370886 - 06/02/17 12:45 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

We're probably beating a dead horse here, but: The inter-individual psychoactive effects of drugs are quite variable. If you give 30 research subjects an identical does of a drug, you will have a large degree of variation. This is especially true of psychedelics.

Few substances are active in the microgram range. Moreover, it would be a pharmacological oddity for a compound to be completely inactive, then have active effects in the presence of another drug.

You are correct that it would take an extremely large study to examine the effects of impurities. This fact in and of itself highlights how small of a role they play.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: badchad]
    #24371226 - 06/02/17 02:37 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I do not think it shows impurities play a small role. I think it merely illustrates how large a role set and setting play. It does not mean purity does not play a comparatively large role as well.

As I've said, I believe that things like meditation, contemplation of love, yoga, etc. - can induce experiences of greater clarity and reduced body load. What this illustrates is that, even if you reject the idea of synergistically-psychoactive impurities, the LSD itself is not the only thing which influences experiences of subjective clarity or body load. So, I would say it is certainly not the case that this proves how small a role the impurities play - unless you're saying the LSD itself does not play a large role :P

Edited by Space Monkey (06/02/17 02:51 PM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: Space Monkey]
    #24371363 - 06/02/17 03:26 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

In clinical trials, set and setting are tightly controlled. Even in this context, with pure drug, experienced vary widely. This suggests the experience itself is so variable, impurities wouldn't be noticed. It also suggests anecdotal case reports, outside of a controlled set and setting are all but meaningless.

If you need a large number of subjects to demonstrate a significant difference in a clinical trial, it is because you are trying to capture a very small effect.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Offlinesunshine
Sin18DwireWuTang


Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 43,592
Loc: higher plane of sex
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: LSD purity and psychoactive effect (LSD chemist Nick Sand interview) [Re: badchad]
    #24371575 - 06/02/17 04:32 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

You didn't have to worry about the cops busting down your door.


--------------------
One Love True Indeed.  Have Good Trips.  Mike/sunshine's mom.

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