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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: 00Burnout]
    #25102966 - 03/30/18 06:35 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

That's what I'm talking about.  You and I live in the same zone if I recall.  Looks like I am just a tad bit out in front is all.  These things took their time on the grains this time.  After the 3rd shake they took off though. 

I really want to build a mini fridge green house like bob, so I think I will.  I priced everything and it looks like it will cost me about 100-200$ to build depending on size and quality of hardware.


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Offline00Burnout
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: hamloaf]
    #25104686 - 03/31/18 01:57 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pretty sure you're right. I might just get a battery powered light (if I can find one in the 6500k spectrum)  and throw an airstone in there to up FAE.

I don't have the space for a minifridge, other wise I'd build one too.


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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: 00Burnout]
    #25104776 - 03/31/18 02:41 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

:awepreciation:


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25104799 - 03/31/18 02:57 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

So, not to derail the thread. But as for the fridge. I've been thinking about something like this
for indoor azure grows for a long time. Using a chest freezer with a Johnson Controls thermostat...like the
ones homebrewers use. I bet Bodhi would know about these, too.

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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
    #25180903 - 05/02/18 11:17 PM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Its been a while since Iv been all that active here, or worked much with fungi (I have been dabbling recently though, and my work at uni involved working with bacteria, so I got a bit of practice with sterile technique), but Im eagerly awaiting a print from Bob so I can hopefully work with these guys. That cap colour in the culivated ones is just beautiful.


It will be interesting to see how it goes because Im in the tropical north of Australia - presumably very much out of the natural habitat/range of this species, but who really knows, most people up here only look for Cubes and pan. Cyans. I also remember Heyowana mentioning an unknown species he identifed as liberty caps goring up here, so maybe they were p.alutacea.

Its starting to cool down up here, dropping to the high teens at night (~18°c low last night), but days only ever get below about 23°c here when we get antarctic fronts blowing up the coast (and up in the mountains and on the western side of the great dividing range). I do know it still gets pretty hot during the day in places like South Australia, so maybe they can actually do ok in high temperatures. Also worth noting is that even the more humid days, and times where they get big downpours down south (especially SA) the humidity and rainfall totals are much lower than what we get. R.h only ever goes down to about 60-70% here even in the peak of the dry season, and a good downpour for us is usually 100mm or more, but we rarely get more than drizzle during winter.

I think Ill try some just at room temperature, and figure out a way of keeping the RH up as well as the airflow (Iv had a go at Pans before with mixed results, so similar situation) and Ill also try cold shocking/stratification, by putting the substrate in the fridge for a week or two before introducing to fuiting conditions to see if that helps.

I also want to have a go at putting some on agar and seeing if I can get some invitro pins, which will most likely be the best fruiting selections for hot/warm climates, then clone them. For that Ill most likely only do enough transfers to get clean mycelium, then let themdo their thing, rather than try and isolate too much (just use the pins to clone an isolate instead). Then if I get fruit Ill go multispore and repeat the process to hopefully create a warm adapted variety. It will definitely be interesting to see what happens, but given the often hot, dry climate in SA I have some hope.

P.s, do they fruit all year down south or is it only over winter?

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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: poisonshroom]
    #25180996 - 05/03/18 01:06 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Hey poisonshroom,

They are a winter species and peak season in SA is around June. This is when I find them to be most prolific and fruit bodies at their largest. I've also found them fruiting in spring but usually only stragglers even if conditions in regards to humidity are optimal. This doesn't mean increased temps are to blame though.

From experience I've not had any luck with invitro pinning at temps of around 20c. Then again Inski has had cultures do just that.

I believe saralove mentioned she didn't have success when attempting to fruit them at 20c and so far I haven't either.
Heyowana has observed them fruiting in warmer temps where they occur in northern NSW than they typically will here.

I fruit them indoors at temps ranging from 8-18c. These are peak temps over a 24h cycle so usually only at 18c for an hour or so. In nature I'd imagine that may play a factor too. 30c over a 14 hour day in summer vs a peak of 30c for merely a few hours in late autumn is very different. I don't think acute temperature spikes are going to be an issue.

Cold shocking will work. You'll just have to experiment and find their threshold.
Once pinning has been initiated fruit bodies will continue to develop in warmer temps.

Goodluck with your experiments. It's great to hear you're interested in working towards the domestication of this species.

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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: bobwastaken] * 1
    #25181213 - 05/03/18 05:54 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Yeah sounds interesting. To me it sounds like either there are different subspecies (or possibly even completely different species) in different regions, which we could probably find out with sequencing, or they have a lot of genetic variability reguarding heat tolerance. Both of those would explain why inski and heyowana found/produced fruits in warmer regions (inski didnt get his spores from you did he Bob?) and why you and saralove couldnt produce any at temps above 20°c and you only find them in the colder months. Who knows though. Its always interesting dealing with little researched species.

I think trying out a few different things will help shed some light though, and if I could get some heat tolerant cultures going I think it would go a long way towards domesticating the species. Or it could end up being a huge waste of time :shrug: Its all part of the fun of it though. I dont have the best workspace or equipment, but it'll still be worth giving it a go.

Id love to make one of your fridge FCs one day too, that thing as badass :mushroom2:

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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: poisonshroom]
    #25200441 - 05/13/18 01:59 AM (6 years, 8 days ago)

I believe saralove got her prints from Heyowana. I've found wild fruits in spring time and even two stragglers at the start of summer when temps were in the 30's. Thing is once the first flush has been initiated beginning in winter there will be subsequent flushes even if temps are not ideal which may explain the late finds. The same goes for P.Subs. They will continue fruiting into the warm days of spring despite requiring much cooler temps to get started.

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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: bobwastaken]
    #25200470 - 05/13/18 02:41 AM (6 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

bobwastaken said:
I believe saralove got her prints from Heyowana. I've found wild fruits in spring time and even two stragglers at the start of summer when temps were in the 30's. Thing is once the first flush has been initiated beginning in winter there will be subsequent flushes even if temps are not ideal which may explain the late finds. The same goes for P.Subs. They will continue fruiting into the warm days of spring despite requiring much cooler temps to get started.




Bob, I think our seasons are reversed, so bare with me. Those prints I got from you...I don't think they
could be in more incapable hands. So Sorry! In the US, if I was doing an outdoor Azure bed, I'd make
sure it was in the ground by March and then hopefully I'd get fruits in Oct-Nov. Do I want
to run Alutaceae the same way?

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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Asura] * 1
    #25200494 - 05/13/18 03:15 AM (6 years, 8 days ago)

You'll do well:thumbup: If you can fruit Azurescens you can certainly succeed with P.Alutacea! Regarding fruiting temps they fall in the same range as Azurescens. I have done similar. Placing colonized substrate blocks in a strawberry patch a couple months before the winter and I'm now seeing fruits.
I haven't seen the most prolific flushes as there's a lot of biological competition outdoors.
If you wanted to maximize your yield I'd do your spawn run indoors at room temp and leave it there. Once your containers/trays/ have colonized and the wild season is underway move them outdoors. They will start to pin in around 2 weeks. They do not have a long consolidation period.

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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: bobwastaken]
    #25217920 - 05/21/18 02:53 AM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Finally got a chance to have a go with these - the last few weeks have been hectic.

I decided to try a few different approaches for redundancies sake. I made a syringe using a sterilized swab, which I used to inoculate some rye berries and BRF cakes yesterday, and also swabbed onto some agar a couple of days ago. I suck at agar at home using a SAB, so that was part of the reason for multiple methods (I have a degree in biochemistry, and do fine a with  flowhood and proper autoclave, but I always seem to have issues in the SAB - I think I need to make a bigger, more transparent one). The print I used from Bob was really nice and dark, and out of the three plates I swabbed (one with pan cyan, and another with a bioluminescent Mycena) the P. alutacea is the only one that hasn't contaminated already, so that's a good sign. It looks as if the spores have germinated already (slight fuzzy edge around the smudge of spores) but there is a bit of condensation on the lid, so its hard to tell.

Im using MEA supplimented with a tiny bit of Vegemite for a yeast extract substitute for the agar, and followed SBJ's (sic?) easy rye TEK pretty much for the grains.

I also cleaned out and bleached the crap out of an old bar fridge Im hoping to convert into an FC for when it gets hot again (mostly so I can do some of my favourite edibles). So hopefully I can get some results with something. Id really like to create a warm climate isolate, but would be happy with any contribution to the domestication efforts.

:poison:

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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: poisonshroom]
    #25217936 - 05/21/18 03:27 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

Great to hear you've already started on the P.Alutacea.:smile: If you can find an isolate that will fruit in warmer temps that'll be amazing. Will be interesting to see how they do going straight to rye berries and BRF. I don't think anybody has done this with P.Alutacea yet.

I use an aquarium turned on its side as a glove box. Visibility through glass is good. I've not had any contamination issues with it. A flowhood would be nice but overkill for the small projects I have.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: bobwastaken]
    #25217958 - 05/21/18 03:56 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

I had a similar rig for rolling spliffs on windy jetties.:wonka:


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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: pineninja]
    #25217988 - 05/21/18 04:49 AM (6 years, 5 hours ago)

Hey that's cool! Is that just acrylic across the front? I was thinking something similar, but more low-tech for my next SAB. Space and freedom of movement (and visibility) are my issues with the one Im using at the moment - the box is too small and I cut the holes a bit too small, so my hands barely fit through it.

And I agree, a flowhood is overkill for most home mycology projects, even larger scale stuff really, unless you are really clumsy or really need the space/use grow bags and tall jars. The one I used to use at uni (for bacteria) was a big biosafety cabinet that was about 1.5m wide and over half a meter tall, and the autoclave we had could literally fit me inside it (and a smaller one which I broke - I sterilized some media one day and it decided to lock itself shut - they had to pull the door off to get my stuff out, which was bottles of bacteria and mold mush by that time lol)

Itll be interesting to see what happens thats for sure. By the way the BRF cakes and probably also grains will be used to spawn to manure or coir - plenty of options for cow/horse manure up here and roo poo is also abundant (Iv grown cubes and others on roo poo before fairly successfully too, years ago).

Edited by poisonshroom (05/21/18 05:55 AM)

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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: poisonshroom]
    #25220224 - 05/22/18 06:45 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Epic thread and epic pics!

Watching with interest  :popcorn:

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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Warrk]
    #25221821 - 05/22/18 09:22 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
Epic thread and epic pics!

Watching with interest  :popcorn:




Dude! I have a moss fetish because of you!

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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Asura]
    #25221828 - 05/22/18 09:24 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Can I just grow mine outdoors, gents? I mean S. Australia....Texas...what's the fucking difference? Mini fridge is cool, but I need to be practical.
In Zone 9, when should I put these
in the ground? Same as I would do Azures? March-ish?

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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Asura]
    #25224811 - 05/24/18 06:47 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Give it a try, an outdoor grow sounds great! I'm not familiar with the climate in Texas, it may be drier than southern Australia so make sure your woodchip bed is moist throughout the year.

You could make a portable moss terrarium too with colonised substrate underneath. Apparently, there are 110 species of moss in east Texas:

http://www3.sfasu.edu/astc/PineywoodsPlants/frames_Bryophytes_Charophytes.html

Moss watching could become a thing... I'm finding it strangely appealing looking at my moss terrarium at any chance I can get, there's so much to take it and it is calming at the same time almost like watching fish in an aquarium. I love all the different shades of green and the appearance of bright green fresh growth is almost too much to bear!

I'd love to try a P. alutacea grow in a similar set-up to my P. subaeruginosa fish tank tek but with perhaps sheep and native animal poop as substrate instead. If anyone in Oz has mycelium and/or 'root' trimmings to spare for me to start a culture I'd appreciate a PM.

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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Warrk]
    #25250790 - 06/05/18 07:55 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

So far for me things are moving very very slowly.

The grain jars are only at bout 20% colonized and the brf jars about 30%. Iv made one transfer on agar from the original germination plate and the one that didnt contam (out of 2 is steadily spreading. I did shake a couple of the grain jars to see if that helps the other day too.

My guess is its the cool nights here - nihht time temps have been dropping to about 9°c for the last week or so. Im probably going to get a reptile heating mat this week and make an incubator to see if that will speed things up a bit.

No pictures atm because its not very interesting, just thought Id update and see what others think. Anyone else experienced super slow colinization with P. alutacea?

:poison:

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InvisiblebobwastakenS
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: poisonshroom]
    #25250840 - 06/05/18 08:22 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

They do grow slow if left to their own devices. Shaking them vigorously and frequently is the ticket to getting them done fast and given your culture is clean they'll recover quickly in my experience. Typically I'll shake, allow recovery and a couple days growth then repeat until fully colonized.  You've also hit the nail on the head regarding temps. 10c will slow things down considerably. Mid to high 20's will see fastest growth.
Depending on the quantity of innoculant used they can finish up in 2 weeks.

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