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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae 5
#24317184 - 05/13/17 05:18 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Heyya fellow Shroomerites
I am starting this thread to discuss the potential for domestication of a recently "rediscovered" species of native Australian fungi, Psilocybe Alutaceae.
I have recently found some on my mountain which caused me to start looking into this species as I knew little about them. TheHunt kindly posted this link demonstrating an amazing and beautiful grow of this species by saralove. I then did some research which eventually lead me to this thread by Heyowana, the man responsible for literally putting this species back on the map. I am now in the process of getting prints from my available specimens but in all honesty I have not grown in a while, I have never attempted any strain isolation or been successful at agar work so this project will be a very slow process for me. So this is what Im asking and hoping to discuss in this thread: Does anyone think there is potential for this species as more than a novelty exotic? Who here has done strain isolation or domestication of wild Psilocybes, and if so, how? Please post links, growlogs etc... Who here would like to help me, by being a go to for advice, attempt this too? Who here would like to do some strain isolation with Ps. Alutaceae? Again post links, growlogs etc so I know who has the skills to get this project going properly.
Any advice or discussion welcome but please no general begging for prints. As I have already posted in my other thread, when I have enough wild prints to share with the general public I will do a giveaway For now, this thread is purely speculation but I hope it gets people as interested as I am in the potential of this "new" Australian species
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24317313 - 05/13/17 06:36 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: eatyualive]
#24317539 - 05/13/17 08:51 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for your interest EatY. Some good info in your sig too, thanks
Here is a picture I took two days ago of the specimens I collected for fruiting at home. Note how dry they are
These are two pics from today to show how well they are doing after rehydration. Note the blueing on the two larger specimens and all the pins on what was initially a plain dry turd.
They are fruiting outside in approx 15ºC temps with nighttime lows of 1-2ºC.... I am truly surprised at these hardy little fuckers that can survive near complete drying out and frost in the same day.
Now, I have been doing my reading on strain isolation and I have my first question Would I be better off trying a cloning tek from some large wild collected fruits (like that big old blue one) to get started or should I begin from multispore? I know I would still be looking for growth rate, rhizomorphic mycelium etc before I look for fruitability but I'm thinking it might be easier for me as a novice to examine agar plates of clones for sectoring and future isolation considering there wouldn't be as many different phenotypes on each plate/dish? Thoughts or suggestions?
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)
Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24317638 - 05/13/17 09:46 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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looking good!
im surprised more people aren't interested in this thread. lets put it at the top.
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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: eatyualive]
#24317741 - 05/13/17 10:32 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I appreciate the bump EatY
Maybe I have no credibility? I know I never posted pics of any of my grows so I could understand that being a problem. Maybe I should elaborate on my minimal experience with this hobby... I know it is only my word but I have grown cubes on brf cakes (yes, who hasn't) and worked my way up to a series of successful cubensis monotubs. I attempted agar work early on (probably a mistake) but after a few failures I moved to using multispore LC as a quick, easy and lazy way of "strain" selection. I would multispore inoc 4 or 5 "baby bottle" LC's and simply pick the one that grew quickest I have grown some nice ATL7/Ps. Galindoii sclerotia (have we decided if there is a difference between the two varieties yet?) thanks to Stonesun's beautiful tek and did manage to fruit them, albeit poorly, for 2 flushes before they went green with trich. it was around then that the guy I was living with lost his mind to my shrooms and his DMT and as such I haven't grown anything since. It really was this find that got me excited to grow again and I was hoping others might share this excitement.
I'm going to get all my sterile gear out and do an inventory of my grow supplies but I shouldn't be missing much. I know I have 5lb of organic ryegrain, all the fixings for LC's & MEA agar and an unopened box of 100 petris in sterile 10 packs so I can't see any reason not to get started on this asap..... There will be more pics to follow peeps.
As always, any suggestions, discussion or info are welcome and appreciated
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,940
Loc: ation
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24317830 - 05/13/17 11:21 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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--------------------
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Bunya
Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 601
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: natedawgnow]
#24318013 - 05/14/17 02:25 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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My 2c Your best bet is to just to get a clean culture. Ignoring ryzo or tomentos either is fine. Only select enough times to get a clean culture. Then fruit it. Select biggest first fruit, then clone and fruit. Whilst testing potential. Spore print it and repeat process over and over. Will be watching with intrest.
-------------------- Bunya cones kill.
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mistamonsta
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Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Bunya]
#24318057 - 05/14/17 03:36 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Bunya.
I appreciate spectators but it is nice to get a little direction and advice with a project like this; it was supposed to be a discussion thread. I am finding it too easy to get bogged down with "if"s, "but"s and "maybe"s when reading through teks and learning concepts I am not completely familiar with. Good thing I like a challenge.
Forgive me for repeating this back to you but I want to make sure I understand the process and its underlying concept properly: I should initially use multispore inoculation on agar and simply clean it up without sectoring/isolation so I get as many varied genetics/phenotypes into my first fruiting as possible, thus giving me a wider selection of fruits/phenotypes to choose from. Then I select and clone any with potential and grow them out to test performance and collect clean prints. Repeat the whole process with prints from those previous best candidates, generation upon generation until I refine the genetics and get my domesticate. Or go mad trying
That sound about right?
Oh yeah, If any TC's or lurkers from Advanced Mycology see this and think the project impossible please tell me so. Feel free to post laughing or whatever..... I'd rather know now than later
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk
Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta] 1
#24318126 - 05/14/17 04:54 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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First plate is an isolate, second one iis a really prominent sector (or sectors maybe) in a culture that's near to being isolated, 3rd plate is a great example of sectoring showing prominently after 10 transfers from spores, and last is a photo showing how to identify and split up sectors **Stro's photo not mine*
*Note* * The photo with the drawings over the sectors is not mine, it came from Stro's thread* The others are old pics of mine.
Honestly if I were you I would try to get them to grow and take a few clones, grow them out see if you have any potent, high yielding keepers.
As far as strain isolation goes, its pretty straight forward. You start by germinating spores on agar and making transfers until you see obvious, defined sectoring (a few examples of old plates I keep the photos because they are a great example of sectoring). It can easily take up to 10 transfers to get to this point.
Next you would take a transfer from each sector (that look healthy) to new plates. You may or may not have some isolates at this point but usually I need to make another transfer or to if they still show some sectoring (like the one photo above with the large prominent sector coming off the top).
The goal is to end up with many isolated strains as you can, I aim for 10-20 isolate plates.
Now you need to label *very important*, take a transfer from each isolate to a blank plate and place in cold storage. Then each isolate needs to be expanded in grain spawn and fruited out, and checked for potency (people often over look this when they get excited about a high yield).
Some will do okay, others poor, some might barely fruit at all if they even do.
But if you get lucky you can find an excellent strain thats worth its weight in gold!).
-------------------- Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mushpunx]
#24318134 - 05/14/17 05:16 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thats great mushpunx, thanks for the pics and info
Between you and Bunya I am well on my way to figuring out a plan. I owe you both some ratings...
I was reading up on isolation and there were some suggestions of 20+ isolates to start with as it can have a complete fail rate (won't grow through casing, aborts/bad pinset, no/poor fruit etc) worse than 75% before you even get to test for potency.... I do realise this is a long term project and that is why I am keen to work WITH some peeps here if anyone is still interested once I get things rolling
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk
Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24318196 - 05/14/17 06:14 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also if you are looking to domesticate you can fruit , then clone, fruit and print the fruit with the traits traits you are interested in, then fruit, clone , fruit, again print the one with ur traits , and so on and so forth until you start seeing the traits you wanted when growing from multispore AFAIK know this is how you go from wild to domesticated.
-------------------- Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
Edited by mushpunx (05/14/17 09:05 AM)
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oontribe
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mushpunx]
#24318226 - 05/14/17 06:38 AM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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hamloaf
Pork Block
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 21,056
Loc: ation is turned off.
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24319313 - 05/14/17 05:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Looks like you got some pretty solid advice in this thread. Do like mushpunx suggested with cloning to domesticate/stabilize the genetics.
I've only one thing to add. Separate the task of cloning, and isolation. Begin the isolation program with spores. Not from clone.
One more thing. In 2-3 weeks I will be available. If you'd like to send a print. I offer my services on an isolation program.
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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: hamloaf]
#24319423 - 05/14/17 06:17 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks HamLoaf Please me when you are available
And thanks to the spectators every bump helps
I really would like to see what these little things can do, regardless of whether I am the one who does it. "Many hands make light work" so they say. Mushpunx, EatY, Bunya that means you too if you are interested. I would like to find someone here in Oz so I can share petri plates/slides quickly and easily, I'm not sure about posting agar wedges or slides internationally but I'm sure there will be a way
Rain is in today so more wild specimen observation and collection Wednesday. Takin fruits off my "home" specimens tonight so I should have the first lot of prints tomorrow. I'm going to fire up the PC for making agar plates soon, just need to get a new Tyvek fartsuit. I have L.M.E., dextrose powder and dried corn syrup powder (I used to use a ratio of 1:1:1 at 3-4% w/w for my LC's). Gonna try making the simple MEA and hope I don't need to find yeast extract. Now to go through all your sigs and look for a tek that will work for me and my SAB setup
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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24327847 - 05/17/17 05:22 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bumping with a pic of some more wild specimens to be harvested for prints tonight.
I'd hoped to have some prints already but decided to leave my home specimens to grow bigger caps. Tonight I will be doing a mass printing of all specimens available, wild and collected. I'd like to wait for the best possible specimens to print but that is just not practical this time of year.
I went and got all the gear required for an agar pour so this weekend I will make up plates and get things started. I figure I will start a "growlog" and my next post on this thread will be the link to it for anyone still interested.
Once again peeps, thanks for your interest, encouragement and all your advice
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack
Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24327875 - 05/17/17 05:34 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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pineninja
Dream Weaver
Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: Mad Season]
#24327884 - 05/17/17 05:38 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'll let the SA dude's know.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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mistamonsta
Threadkiller
Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 888
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: pineninja]
#24327959 - 05/17/17 06:05 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: I'll let the SA dude's know.
Please do, many hands make light work.....
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer
Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,941
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: mistamonsta]
#24328027 - 05/17/17 06:32 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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I to will
-------------------- JOIN THE POW WOW
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amidogen
see you on the other side
Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
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Re: Potential for Domestication and strain Isolation of Ps. Alutaceae [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24328049 - 05/17/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
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-------------------- The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.
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