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Home Grower
Stranger


Registered: 11/19/13
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Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with?
#24276334 - 04/27/17 03:28 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi good people, let's say that I can get from somebody a few old and discarded BRF cakes that have been harvested many times and do not produce mushrooms anymore. Will these exhausted cakes be any good for spawning a Monotub substrate with? Or is the mycelium in such depleted cakes too old and/or too contaminated? Thanks!
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lovelaughlibs
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Home Grower]
#24276352 - 04/27/17 03:33 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nutrients will be used up, and bulk substrates tend to not have a huge amount of nutrition. You can't add more nutrients without causing a huge contamination risk, so just toss the cakes.
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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mynakedrat
The phantom hourglass



Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 4,629
Loc: Inner Astral levels
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: lovelaughlibs]
#24276419 - 04/27/17 04:08 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Put them in a houseplant
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mynakedrat]
#24276440 - 04/27/17 04:16 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just_A_Noob



Registered: 12/30/16
Posts: 6,809
Loc: PNW
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: bodhisatta]
#24276676 - 04/27/17 05:28 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mynakedrat]
#24276762 - 04/27/17 06:00 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mynakedrat said: Put them in a houseplant
I don't recommend this. They don't fruit well, and I've had more than one turn into a healthy fungus gnat colony. Just toss the spent cakes and make more.
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Home Grower
Stranger


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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Munchauzen]
#24277215 - 04/27/17 08:54 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for your replies. I read a few reports from people who have used spent cakes to spawn Monotubs with success. Guess I will give it a try too. Worst that can happen is I lose 5 Euros worth of materials.
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: lovelaughlibs]
#24277218 - 04/27/17 08:56 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
lovelaughlibs said: Nutrients will be used up, and bulk substrates tend to not have a huge amount of nutrition. You can't add more nutrients without causing a huge contamination risk, so just toss the cakes.
I was under the impression bulk substrates contain lots of nutrients hence the higher yield. I believe I've read RR explicitly state Coco coir is a bulk substrate and contains lots of nutrients I think you out have casing and bulk confused. As a matter of fact casing should contain no Nutes e.g. Vermiculite and peat moss, and it is for this reason they don't significantly increase yield.
One of the reason spent cakes are bad for bulk is the increased risk of contamination, as the cake has been exposed to open air for likely a week at least. Contams flourish in bulk sub because of the Nutes
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24277281 - 04/27/17 09:32 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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bigger yields come from water. you BULK up the spawn with more water and mass for more shrooms nutes have little to do with it.
contams flourish in bulk subs because of bad spawn.
make some coco based substrate and just toss it somewhere. put in a ziplock and put in a suck drawer. shit stays good for a loooooooooooooong time. poo based subs are different because of all the microbe action.
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TheMadHatter420
Trusted Farmer


Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 12,943
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24277292 - 04/27/17 09:36 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Coir DOES NOT have lots of nutrients. That is why we do not have to pasteurize it nor sterilize it. We only apply boils water to cook it, making it easier for the shrooms to colonize. It has very little to no nutritional value.
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Home Grower
Stranger


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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24277310 - 04/27/17 09:41 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Very interesting discussion, guys.
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Dacauz
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Home Grower]
#24277324 - 04/27/17 09:46 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Coir has almost 0 nutes. You will get a few mushrooms however they will be much smaller and obviously defunct of its nutrients needed to grow. Ive done this once with some Amazonian cakes and some extra choir I had from a rye mono tub just as an experiment. I was surprised I got a few shrooms but a quarter off 10 spent cakes is just wasted time and resources.
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Dacauz] 1
#24277334 - 04/27/17 09:49 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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we arnt talking about making cakes with coco. we are talking about spawning to bulk.
Quote:
Dacauz said: You will get a few mushrooms however they will be much smaller and obviously defunct of its nutrients needed to grow.
grown on coco 
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Dacauz]
#24277348 - 04/27/17 09:56 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dacauz said: Coir has almost 0 nutes. You will get a few mushrooms however they will be much smaller and obviously defunct of its nutrients needed to grow.
 All my tubs are straight coir and half pounds first flush
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Home Grower
Stranger


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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: bodhisatta]
#24277400 - 04/27/17 10:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Dacauz said: Coir has almost 0 nutes. You will get a few mushrooms however they will be much smaller and obviously defunct of its nutrients needed to grow.
 All my tubs are straight coir and half pounds first flush
Maybe the shrooms feed on the rye berries from the spawn and not on the coco coir?  
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24277402 - 04/27/17 10:16 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: bigger yields come from water. you BULK up the spawn with more water and mass for more shrooms nutes have little to do with it.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Home Grower]
#24277414 - 04/27/17 10:21 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Home Grower said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Dacauz said: Coir has almost 0 nutes. You will get a few mushrooms however they will be much smaller and obviously defunct of its nutrients needed to grow.
 All my tubs are straight coir and half pounds first flush
Maybe the shrooms feed on the rye berries from the spawn and not on the coco coir?   
Yep nutrition comes from the spawn or supplements used
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: bodhisatta]
#24280184 - 04/28/17 11:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Prior to my experiments with coir as a bulk substrate, people used to say coir has no 'nutes', because it's advertised that way for growing plants. However, no 'nutes' for plants and no 'nutes' for mushrooms are two totally different parameters. Coir makes an excellent bulk substrate, especially when mixed with vermiculite, which the mycelium also digests for the minerals. RR
Read it and weep.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280187 - 04/28/17 11:16 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280198 - 04/28/17 11:19 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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coir has no nutes in the traditional sense. that quote has nothing to do with what we would be 'weeping' for. sure it has minerals and other things for the mushroom but so does dirt. you could eat dirt and get some minerals and 'nutes'
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280240 - 04/28/17 11:37 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:

coir has no nutes in the traditional sense. that quote has nothing to do with what we would be 'weeping' for. sure it has minerals and other things for the mushroom but so does dirt. you could eat dirt and get some minerals and 'nutes'
You are speaking out of ignorance, or ill experience. If you had let's a BRF cake and cased it in 5050 verm/peat and fruited, do you think you would have the same yield if you took that exact same cake and spawned to 5050 verm/coir and allowed it to colonize completely? No of course not, this is because the coir acts just as Horse manure and cow manure, it increases the biomass of the mycelium thus allowing for larger yields. If bulk didn't increase yields it wouldn't be called bulk, and there would be no reason to fuck with it when you could easily case and fruit much easier.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280244 - 04/28/17 11:38 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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water.
ass.
how can you say i have ill experience and then ask about a pf cake being spawned to a casing and then compared that to spawning to a bulk substrate.??
like
times 8 hundred billion.
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280262 - 04/28/17 11:50 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: water.
ass.
how can you say i have ill experience and then ask about a pf cake being spawned to a casing and then compared that to spawning to a bulk substrate.??
like
times 8 hundred billion.
I used a cake as an example because thats what op is using. Tell me this, why would anyone pasturize a ton of cow shit, when they could just as easily case with verm and give it the same amount of water, if it makes no difference in the yield? Why would you bother consolidating the substrate at all if according to you, it had all it needs right out of the jar. What do you think a nutrient is? Something that just sounds fancy and thrown around arbitrarily. The only difference between bulk and casing is the presence of nutrients in bulk and the absence of nutrients in the casing. This is what makes a difference in yield, not water.
Lets make this easy, why dont you educate the class of the distinction between bulk and casing?
Edited by Hunter S Hoffman (04/29/17 12:07 AM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280350 - 04/29/17 12:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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no. thats ok.
but for laughs. bulk is when you supplement the spawn with more water to increase yield.
a casing is a tool the grower uses to control surface conditions for pinning.
Quote:
if it makes no difference in the yield? Why would you bother consolidating the substrate at all if according to you, it had all it needs right out of the jar
i never said that, and i dont consolidate substrates.
Quote:
why would anyone pasteurize a ton of cow shit, when they could just as easily case with verm and give it the same amount of water, if it makes no difference in the yield?
you can. its called the rez tek. but you spawn to verm, not case with it.
ass.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280363 - 04/29/17 12:58 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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im speaking from experience..
you are speaking from..
Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said: I was under the impression bulk substrates contain lots of nutrients hence the higher yield. I believe I've read RR explicitly state Coco coir is a bulk substrate and contains lots of nutrients I think you out have casing and bulk confused.
some shit you read. and do you really think we are confusing casings and bulk substrates?
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280385 - 04/29/17 01:18 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: im speaking from experience..
you are speaking from..
Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said: I was under the impression bulk substrates contain lots of nutrients hence the higher yield. I believe I've read RR explicitly state Coco coir is a bulk substrate and contains lots of nutrients I think you out have casing and bulk confused.
some shit you read. and do you really think we are confusing casings and bulk substrates?

For one that wasn't even addressed to you, but a earlier poster. Secondly
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Bulk substrates are substances we spawn our fully colonized rye grains or cakes into, in order to increase the size of the medium. RR
Funny, I didn't read much about water in that post. Maybe your right and RR is wrong, I'm sure that's very likely (Sarcasm)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280390 - 04/29/17 01:24 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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mushrooms are 90%+ water. thats whats in that 'medium' ...water.
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280395 - 04/29/17 01:25 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: im speaking from experience..
you are speaking from..
Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said: I was under the impression bulk substrates contain lots of nutrients hence the higher yield. I believe I've read RR explicitly state Coco coir is a bulk substrate and contains lots of nutrients I think you out have casing and bulk confused.
some shit you read. and do you really think we are confusing casings and bulk substrates?

Excusee me for following the advice of a clearly superior grower. I guess I'm in the wrong place, I thought this was a place leople go to read and learn. I guess I'm wrong just another forum of fat headed children who spam their memes and think they're the shit. Funny how it took you this long to even state your reasoning (only after I asked you to), you're to busy being rude and shitty to others for no good reason
By the way nice TC tag, it's almost like it's not there
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280400 - 04/29/17 01:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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and shhhh. ppl will be on to the whole 'supporter tag looking like a mod' thing.. geez. way to ruin it for me.
and im trying to look like a mod, not a tc. double geezz.
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280405 - 04/29/17 01:33 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: mushrooms are 90%+ water. thats whats in that 'medium' ...water.
So what difference does it make if water is being given to the cakes by vermiculite than horse manure. Assuming they both have the same amount of water, they both should yield the same following your logic (the question you have yet to answer). If water is what matters why fuss with manure when you get a bag of verm? If the same amount of water is added to each, why is the bulk substrate consistently higher yielding?
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280406 - 04/29/17 01:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:

and shhhh. ppl will be on to the whole 'supporter tag looking like a mod' thing.. geez. way to ruin it for me.
and im trying to look like a mod, not a tc. double geezz.
I wasn't referring to that, I simply stating I'd rather follow the advice of someone who has proven themselves to be proficient at growing, rather than the way you interpret them.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280408 - 04/29/17 01:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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because it has more water.
you can grow huge shrooms of tiny substrates just as long as you pump it with water.
surface area or size of the medium(substarte) does not equal more yield either.
people dont spawn straight to verm because its too expensive. and kind hard to keep the surface moist and glistening.
and you are jumping to conclusions. and nobody spawns cakes to hpoo. the repeated use of that shows that you are a newbie and have no clue what you are talking about. just going off assumptions you drew off shit you read thats older then my cats.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280425 - 04/29/17 01:45 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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this is going nowhere.
you want more mushrooms? add more water. how do you add more water? in a bulk substrate.
if nutes in a bulk sub is what gives you bigger yields then why use grains/cakes at all? just colonize hpoo straight from spores and grow massive amounts of shrooms.
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280428 - 04/29/17 01:47 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: if nutes in a bulk sub where what gave you bigger yields then why use grains at all? just colonize hpoo straight from spores and grow massive shrooms.
Because you're going to have a damn hard time getting spores to germinate in such an environment. People have successfully skipped grains using only LC and bulk and have had great results.
Edited by Hunter S Hoffman (04/29/17 01:49 AM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280432 - 04/29/17 01:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said: People have successfully skipped grains using only LC and bulk and have had great results.
where?
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280440 - 04/29/17 01:53 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: because it has more water.
you can grow huge shrooms of tiny substrates just as long as you pump it with water.
surface area or size of the medium(substarte) does not equal more yield either.
people dont spawn straight to verm because its too expensive. and kind hard to keep the surface moist and glistening.
and you are jumping to conclusions. and nobody spawns cakes to hpoo. the repeated use of that shows that you are a newbie and have no clue what you are talking about. just going off assumptions you drew off shit you read thats older then my cats.
Once again I used it as an example. And you can get 50lb bag of verm at home Depot for 3 bucks, you must be really poor to find that expensive. And you do understand that most of that water goes away when you dry the fruits. It doesn't magically turn into a mushroom. Hence the reason wet weight is 10x dry weight.
The reason people don't spawn to vermiculite isnt because it doesn't glisten it's because the mycelium won't colonize it because it contains no nutrients.
Edited by Hunter S Hoffman (04/29/17 01:58 AM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280447 - 04/29/17 01:57 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hunter S Hoffman
Psychonautic Warrior


Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 28
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280469 - 04/29/17 02:08 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said: People have successfully skipped grains using only LC and bulk and have had great results.
where?
Quote:
agar said:
    Above is LC to bulk substrate. But, substrate is a specialized custom compost. And, it was done in a specialized container.
It's not easy but can be done. Oh and it it's from another TC so I'll take thier word for it
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3B3B4E
Turd Stool Hunter


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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: mushboy]
#24280473 - 04/29/17 02:12 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.
- William Blake
 
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dhype773
Enter the Void



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Re: Can you use old and exhausted BRF cakes to spawn a Monotub substrate with? [Re: Hunter S Hoffman]
#24280630 - 04/29/17 05:44 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said:
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Hunter S Hoffman said: People have successfully skipped grains using only LC and bulk and have had great results.
where?
Quote:
agar said:
    Above is LC to bulk substrate. But, substrate is a specialized custom compost. And, it was done in a specialized container.
It's not easy but can be done. Oh and it it's from another TC so I'll take thier word for it
Is that just a damn Chinese food to-go container? If so, my GH is getting put to use!
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