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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24270413 - 04/25/17 10:48 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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They produce spores its just pretty rare if they drop most people get a spore swab if they take it themselves but you can order a syringe online no problem check our sponsors
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24270767 - 04/25/17 01:55 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tom + boogie: Exactly, good info guys 
That's exactly what I'm referring to, great examples.
Like you said, whole human ethnic groups can or can't process things like milk and alcohol due to lack or abundance of particular enzymes. This is also what leads to the profound differences in natural opiate tolerance.
With a drug as poorly understood as psilocybin there could be numerous enzymatic relationships that aren't even documented yet, and the documented ones vary tremendously between people Like you said, set and setting actually has more impact the anything else in determining a trip, even dosage to a large extent
Even comparing just the physiological aspects of hallucinogens there or a huge range of responses. Some people get relaxed, others tense, blood pressure, pulse,etc can be way different for different people. Some people have literally zero physiological effects beyond pupil dilation , which can also vary
And the mind is much more complicated. Something is subjective as a trip is virtually impossible to communicate effectively, much less compare between people in any objective way
@OP:
No worries buddy, your word choice was fine, it's just A very nuanced topic, and we are throwing a bunch of contextual information at you, to help you see how these ideas relate to one another, and be sure we are onthe same page and talking about the same thing
"Potency" probably is the right word, we just want to put the idea in perspective. Perhaps"subjective potency" or "perceived potency" woulda been more accurate, but we understood what you meant just fine 
We were just making sure we are on the same page and talking about the same thing. Sounds like we are, since we are distinguishing perceived from objective potency 
I actually just did a big giveaway last week, sent out a bunch of PE swabs and prints from my record AA+ yield (295g single fruit, 3.5kgsingle flush off 66qt tub). I ran out and had to call it off a lot sooner than expected haha lots of interest in those two races
Also, if you have a chemical engineering degree then you may very well be able to perform some of chromatography calculations and operate the equipment needed to get objective measurements of active compounds.
Depending on which type of chromatography, you will need to get the equipment and needed supplies, study up on the molecular properties of psilocybin and the other actives, and brush up on the lab protocols for the particular type of chromatography you want to use. The easiest way would be if you have access to a university lab that is already set up for that type of chromatography
If you can pull that off, then you'd be able to get objective measurements. BTW if you do this or find someone who can PLEASE let me know, I would start standing up samples immediately for my research projects
A lot of people think they need a "machine" to do this type of stuff, but what they don't understand is that the equipment is the easy part: knowing what to do and how to do it how to calculate various parts of the analysis is the hard part
Like I said people ask me all the time to build a machine to test THC, or do supercritical fluid extraction, or build a "short path distillation machine" lol... I always told him to hire a consultant who is a chemical engineer or organic expert and tell them exactly what you were trying to do, then buy all the stuff they tell you too,and let them figure it out, then once they have it down smoothly, have them write the protocols and train your staff
That always works waaaaaaay better than an arts major dropping $150,000 on lab equipment they don't know how to use. An expert could show a layman how to do this kind of stuff, teach em the steps etc, but for best results you really need someone who knows what they are doing putting things together , determining processes, and writing protocols
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 2,313
Last seen: 5 months, 30 days
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24273671 - 04/26/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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c10h12n2o said:
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Groo said: chromatography(aka TLC) or paper chromatography is science for measuring potency. Not every one has
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8853761/fpart/all/vc/1
right, that would be the GCMS i kept referencing
I happen to know a PHD is some spectroscopy or chromatography. Lazy bitch was a researcher and now when I ask why don;t your wife have a job, oh no one wants to hore a 40 something lady. Fine, lol if it was my wife shed have a job it gives people a purpose. Keep on struggling tim keep on defeating yourself before you even try. Jobs are a dime a doZen
there are all kinds of chromatography: Column chromatography, Planar chromatography, Gas chromatography,Liquid chromatography, Supercritical fluid chromatography, Ion exchange chromatography, Size-exclusion chromatography, Expanded bed adsorption chromatographic separation, etc
but this is quite complicated and requires a lot of chem knowledge, not something thats easy for an amateur to do. we can send off and have it done, but it is very expensive.
i have actually contacted several labs for this purpose, but have not been able to find a lab that would test dried fruits for me (much less fresh) Sounds like you are speaking in volume. Where does your desire for such accuracy come from. My desire although not as extreme as yours. I have to one day think if there are facilities producing Magic Mrpo for healing purposes and this tyoe of research would have to be done to put out a superior mushroom. Then you morons are like LETS LEGALIZE WEED FIRST 1 THING AT A TIME. No the time is now. But I suggest you either stop the self limiting talk about the prohibitively high cost of the equipment and save up. Or team up with someone that sells pounds and pounds that has little expertise in the scientific area growing and buy a lab and all the testing equipment and turn a profit or just for the glory of researching and recognition paul stamets. Guzman was a humble guy I think. RR the list goes on Alan R. Bhoddista. Chronm, Groo.
when you read about stamets or gartz or whoever testing some mushroom 30 years ago, they almost always are doing it in a lab they have access toit is much closer than you think if you push toward that, usually their own or a university they work with. also, those particular figures you referenced are notoriously bad... I start to think what could I talk to someone about that lived in 1845 and in my mind For a moement I kind of exppect them to be babbling and dragging a club, but they are probably smarter than us so reallym i don;t believe people were capable if fucking up science
given a basic knowledge of how potency seems to vary between MS grows/fruit, why would we expect all of a particular species (especially indoor cultivated) would be identical or even near the exact active content/ratios of particular wild fruits stamets tested decades ago? far too few fruits sampled in those studies to determine an accurate range, much less a typical amount for various species Honsetly, at the end of the day, who has the biggest dick? The Best? Its big but ugly? Is small but fits perfectly? EMERGENCY IM HITTING POST AND LEAVING I will BRB I will refine my message further soon but this guy is makig some of the strongest points and I have rarely met 1 whos such intricate knowledge and willinness to teach hit me top 10 hard.
if you find a lab that will test actives with any kind of chromatography that can accurately measure psilocybin, hit me up PLEASE. ive tried dozens, unsuccessfully
@OP, leave isolates to the professional mycologists and researchers, they can often take hundreds of transfers to obtain anyway: way beyond what you want or need. stick to clone cultures. all you want is a highly organized, aggressive culture. whether it is MS or clone doesnt really matter too much, as long as its organized
that said, use a clone if you have the option, it makes things more even for sure. clone is really a misleading word, because clones almost always have MANY strains present in them as well, so they are really MS as well, just more limited, and limited to genetics which have successfully fruited before (whereas spores are a genetic reset)Ooooooooo This is new to groo!
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said:
C10, for a few $tack$ you could pick one up off eBay and do it. LOL
lol if it was that simple id have done did it, believe that 
people ask me weekly to help them set up "a supercritical fluid extraction machine" or "a short path distillation apparatus" lol... someone told them how to make good oil they got it all figured out, all they need is me to build em a damn machine not hardly... i always tell them to hire a chemical engineer as a consultant to show them how to use it... people underestimate how difficult this stuff is to do.... these cannabis chemists think everything is as simple as BHO 
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FckingNameless
Stranger



Registered: 12/11/16
Posts: 127
Loc: your heart
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24273922 - 04/26/17 05:13 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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found this link the other day that put some light on questions I had like the degradation of alkaloids at room temp vs freeze temp and dephosphorilation of psilocybin on acid ph/heat etc, some interesting sources on the bottom of the page
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psilocin.extraction.html
C10 I have a guy that runs HPLC on some drugs for me(mostly steroids) but he's a very smart guy and I know he tests a lot of drugs, I'll PM you his website.
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lovelaughlibs
Dopamine Slave



Registered: 10/14/15
Posts: 1,811
Loc: England
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: FckingNameless]
#24274186 - 04/26/17 06:52 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Psilocin (alongside oral DMT) has been well known for having effects significantly different than you would expect from X dosage. Tolerance also builds after a single dose and is largely gone after a week and almost completely gone after 2 weeks. Some of the tolerance to the "magic" or "spirituality" can take up to a few months to be totally gone for some people, but this is possible a psychological tolerance factor rather than a physiological one. As in, your brain is now used to the magic and it's old hat to you until you take a month+ break.
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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Fungi2TripWit
Stranger


Registered: 11/26/16
Posts: 97
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24274650 - 04/26/17 10:36 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said:[/i
I actually just did a big giveaway last week, sent out a bunch of PE swabs and prints from my record AA+ yield (295g single fruit, 3.5kgsingle flush off 66qt tub). I ran out and had to call it off a lot sooner than expected haha lots of interest in those two races
Damn, sad I missed that. Although I now live in a foreign country and spores are illegal here. I'm not sure I would risk getting mail with illegal stuff in it. For me it feels a lot safer just to spend the weekend in Amsterdam and pick up what I can and come back home with it. Open borders in the EU and all.
Quote:
Also, if you have a chemical engineering degree then you may very well be able to perform some of chromatography calculations and operate the equipment needed to get objective measurements of active compounds.
Depending on which type of chromatography, you will need to get the equipment and needed supplies, study up on the molecular properties of psilocybin and the other actives, and brush up on the lab protocols for the particular type of chromatography you want to use. The easiest way would be if you have access to a university lab that is already set up for that type of chromatography
If you can pull that off, then you'd be able to get objective measurements. BTW if you do this or find someone who can PLEASE let me know, I would start standing up samples immediately for my research projects
A lot of people think they need a "machine" to do this type of stuff, but what they don't understand is that the equipment is the easy part: knowing what to do and how to do it how to calculate various parts of the analysis is the hard part
Like I said people ask me all the time to build a machine to test THC, or do supercritical fluid extraction, or build a "short path distillation machine" lol... I always told him to hire a consultant who is a chemical engineer or organic expert and tell them exactly what you were trying to do, then buy all the stuff they tell you too,and let them figure it out, then once they have it down smoothly, have them write the protocols and train your staff
That always works waaaaaaay better than an arts major dropping $150,000 on lab equipment they don't know how to use. An expert could show a layman how to do this kind of stuff, teach em the steps etc, but for best results you really need someone who knows what they are doing putting things together , determining processes, and writing protocols
It's been almost 30 years since I graduated from Drexel. My last year there, I did my first heroic dose and realized my drive for studying CE was only to synthesize drugs. I also realized I would most likely die an early death if I stayed on course. I made a huge life change and never looked back. It was expensive, but I am still alive. It's been so long since I have read or have had interest in chemistry that I would struggle to balance a simple equation at this point. Obviously I've also become a lot more impatient and lazy in my older years or I would have used simple scientific method to figure this out on my own instead of asking on here.
Is that Serotonin in your handle c10? or one of its isomers?
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/26/17 11:06 PM)
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24274832 - 04/27/17 12:40 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah its supposed to be, but i started using this handle like 15 years ago, before i realized that those "formulas" dont really mean much 
for example, how would you like a big fat shot of C21H30O2?
will it get you stoned, or chemically castrate you? 
THC has the same chemical formula as progesterone (pregnancy hormone)
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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