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Fungi2TripWit
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possible potency loss issue, or tolerance?
#24269664 - 04/24/17 11:43 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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There are a ton of posts on here saying dehydrating doesn't cause you to lose much of the actives. On Friday I harvested my equadorians and made tea from 40g wet and had an awesome time. Nice and potent. Before I drank the tea I already had the rest in the dehydrator drying. Minimum 2 hrs from harvest to dehydrator set at 45C (113F). I ran the dehydrator for about 10 hours. They felt dry so I put them in the tupperware and on Monday I made tea from 6 grams for me and a friend. I noticed when cutting they weren't cracker dry. We drank the tea and the friend threw most of it up after 30 minutes but I didn't throw up at all. I had an experience like I only took maybe 1g dried, my friend had a similar experience. I assumed it was because they weren't fully dry so it threw off the dosage. I put my 20g back in the dehydrator over night. The next morning they were definitely cracker dry but only lost 2g. That would have made my dose 2.7g instead of 3g and that isn't that much of a difference. I'm thinking it shouldn't be a potency issue because the mushies never got above 113F. How likely is it that 3 days between dosing gave me a tolerance that made 3g feel like 1g and the friend didn't feel it much because he threw it up after 30 minutes?
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269670 - 04/24/17 11:52 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Id set your dehydrator to its highest setting a dude on here deep fries his cubes at 350f°..... so 165 wont hurt them ...
was your grow from ms?? That could be the problem as well i know my cousin and her friends were eating 3 to 4 grams a night every nighf and after about the fifth time they said they didnt feel much but 2 weeks later they ate the left overs and tripped balls ....
i dont see why one trip would make your tolerance go up ??
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shroomer1234567



Registered: 04/26/15
Posts: 329
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269694 - 04/25/17 12:06 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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You get a huge tolerance to mushrooms from 1 trip hence why tripping 2 days in a row doesn't really work go a WK without them ur tolerance will be gone again. It always amazes me how fast tolerance builds to shrooms
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



Registered: 12/06/14
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269697 - 04/25/17 12:07 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Fuck a dehumidifier right? I'm bout to get a Harvest right Freeze dryer!
Sure its 3-5k but I believe it is the best for perfect potency retention.
THAT will retain potency. Eh eh?
Edited by Groo (04/25/17 12:08 AM)
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269706 - 04/25/17 12:10 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mine has never changed after two trips in a row but everyone is different .... https://harvestright.com/product/large-freeze-dryer/ ya ill be getting one when i can fork out the dough haha
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spore-ty



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269717 - 04/25/17 12:19 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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No potency loss from a dehydrator
Tolerance build up to mushies is quite extensive depending on the individual in fact my buddy at John Hopkins told me about a study theyre doing there on this subject and other variables of course
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: spore-ty]
#24269740 - 04/25/17 12:28 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nah. I can eat a tiny cap fresh and then a burned dried dehydrated thing. Such a difference anyone else agree?
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269745 - 04/25/17 12:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Id rather eat fresh but dry dont bother me either tho i bet the freeze dry ones are good
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269751 - 04/25/17 12:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I bet they just crumble into powder and taste so fresh. Mmmm Barf!
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spore-ty



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269752 - 04/25/17 12:37 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ya big difference in taste wet vs dry of that's what you meant
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Bensi
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269756 - 04/25/17 12:41 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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concerning temperature and potency loss... Steven Casteel has a video on youtube of he and a friend eating fried Panaeolus Cyanescens in Indonesia. I think they were flavored too like potato chips.
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: spore-ty]
#24269759 - 04/25/17 12:42 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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No I meant taste with freezedrying. See how futuristic the concept is? In fact you can dip in water is should come back to life taste and texture mostly.
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269768 - 04/25/17 12:47 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tolerance builds fast and tapers out mostly over a week. I have tried tripping a few days after on several occasions and it just doesn't work. Tolerance to shrooms and lsd builds and works differently than say with weed. If you want to trip the very next day, you have to take 2-3 times as much to get the same level trip. Tested this about 4or 5 times now.
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: spore-ty]
#24269771 - 04/25/17 12:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said: Id set your dehydrator to its highest setting a dude on here deep fries his cubes at 350f°..... so 165 wont hurt them ...
was your grow from ms?? That could be the problem as well i know my cousin and her friends were eating 3 to 4 grams a night every nighf and after about the fifth time they said they didnt feel much but 2 weeks later they ate the left overs and tripped balls ....
I'm not sure why ms would have anything to do with it, but yes ms isolated on agar.
Quote:
spore-ty said: No potency loss from a dehydrator
Tolerance build up to mushies is quite extensive depending on the individual in fact my buddy at John Hopkins told me about a study theyre doing there on this subject and other variables of course
I'm familiar with a lot of the JH studies but haven't seen any data on tolerance. Any links you can provide for that data? I'd love to read it.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/25/17 12:50 AM)
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269773 - 04/25/17 12:50 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would not just go about saying TAKE 2 or 3 times as much as a rule of thumb. That can end up bad for someone. I would experiment carefully.
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269777 - 04/25/17 12:53 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Multi Spore can have the propensity to have mushrooms of Greatly varying sizes, potency, and other things. If you want POtency, and quality it is important to pick a few good isolates/clones and test for potency yield and more.
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269780 - 04/25/17 12:53 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Multi spore you have tons and tons of strains meaning different genetics you could have one thats super potent and one thats bunk... you didnt isolate ms just cut some of the strains down ...
Haha ya cause i take 7 grams when i trip so id have to take a half to 3/4 of an ounce haha im not ready for that yet
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269783 - 04/25/17 12:54 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have tested this as, if you search, other have. The day after tolerance is through the roof. I did 3.5g eaten one night, ate 8g the next night, from same batch, and had a little less of a trip.
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269785 - 04/25/17 12:57 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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My pe clone must just be super potent or my sensitivity to the trip is exceptional i never tripped much on my other clones like i do my pe but ive had body highs on as low as.25 and light visuals on .7 of a gram
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269786 - 04/25/17 12:57 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Tolerance builds fast and tapers out mostly over a week. I have tried tripping a few days after on several occasions and it just doesn't work. Tolerance to shrooms and lsd builds and works differently than say with weed. If you want to trip the very next day, you have to take 2-3 times as much to get the same level trip. Tested this about 4or 5 times now.
This is what I was looking for... thanks man. So most likely I was tolerant and my buddy just barfed most of his dose. I thought 30 minutes was enough to absorb most of the liquid as it only takes about 20-30 minutes to feel the effects of a pill, and that has to dissolve first.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269787 - 04/25/17 12:58 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Take a look at this thread if you want. YES it is off the shroomery but it compiles data from users and has it graphed. Many people agree about the short term tolerance. That's why psychedelics are fairly self regulating as far as addiction.
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/479297-The-Big-amp-Dandy-LSD-amp-Shroom-Tolerance-FAQ-and-Discussion-Thread
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269790 - 04/25/17 01:02 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungi2TripWit said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Tolerance builds fast and tapers out mostly over a week. I have tried tripping a few days after on several occasions and it just doesn't work. Tolerance to shrooms and lsd builds and works differently than say with weed. If you want to trip the very next day, you have to take 2-3 times as much to get the same level trip. Tested this about 4or 5 times now.
This is what I was looking for... thanks man. So most likely I was tolerant and my buddy just barfed most of his dose. I thought 30 minutes was enough to absorb most of the liquid as it only takes about 20-30 minutes to feel the effects of a pill, and that has to dissolve first.
Eating shrooms only take about 30 for effect drinking tea is almost instant 10 minutes tops any way maybe you made the tea wrong or something
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c10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269791 - 04/25/17 01:02 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said: since psychadelic trips are by definition subjective, its really damned hard to know what potency is like in any of our projects, unless we have them analyzed with GCMS or something... wish i could find an easy way to objectively measure actives though
since set and setting, body chemistry / physiology, and psychological state have SO much impact, and there are so many factors involved, its nearly impossible to use our subjective evaluation of trips to even guess about objective potency
of course an experienced grower/psychonaut can make informed guesses about how things compare to other batches in similar doses/circumstances/users, but ultimately it is a guess. especially since people can have such different experiences off of similar doses of the same exact batch, simply due to how recently they tripped, stomach contents, whether their parents are divorcing, etc
so its really tough to say for sure... strangely, higher doses dont always equal stronger or better trips, so that really complicates any objective analysis of peoples subjective trip/experience. its like "good cheese" and "bad cheese": 100% subjective.
one person might have an amazing trip off of 3g, and another might experience nothing, or a terrible trip, off of the exact same fruits from the same monoculture tub. the same could happen even with pure chemicals. our subjective experiences dont really tell us much about potency, beyond an informed guess
so when people discuss potency loss from drying, or really ANYTHING relating to potncy, unless they are having them GCMS analyzed before and after, they are ultimately guessing about something objective (potency) based on nothing more than the subjective experiences of them and their friends (trips)
i really wish there was a convenient way to objectively measure active concentrations
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269793 - 04/25/17 01:04 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungi2TripWit said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Tolerance builds fast and tapers out mostly over a week. I have tried tripping a few days after on several occasions and it just doesn't work. Tolerance to shrooms and lsd builds and works differently than say with weed. If you want to trip the very next day, you have to take 2-3 times as much to get the same level trip. Tested this about 4or 5 times now.
This is what I was looking for... thanks man. So most likely I was tolerant and my buddy just barfed most of his dose. I thought 30 minutes was enough to absorb most of the liquid as it only takes about 20-30 minutes to feel the effects of a pill, and that has to dissolve first.
From my experience barfing them up does reduce the intensity of the trip. I hope what I am about to say is the correct way it works. From what I understand the psilocin is the chemical that produces the trip in the brain, and the psilocybin has to go through the liver or kidneys and has to be converted, by the body, into the psilocin that works on the brain. So in your buddy's case he cut himself short.
Now I could be off slightly on this BUT I remember researching this one night stoned off my ass and it is fairly close to what happens with the absorption and usage of the actives.
What C10 is saying, is why one should really only compare their own trips. Even THAT is still highly subjective, but its better to take out the variable of multiple people.
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269794 - 04/25/17 01:05 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Groo said: Multi Spore can have the propensity to have mushrooms of Greatly varying sizes, potency, and other things. If you want POtency, and quality it is important to pick a few good isolates/clones and test for potency yield and more.
If all the mushies have different genes in a ms flush, what do you do, take a sample from one mushroom and clone it... then eat the rest of it and grade the potency from eating one mushroom? Then you have to wait a week to try another from your flush and grade that one? That doesn't sound realistic... am I missing something?
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269803 - 04/25/17 01:09 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Pretty much ill take a clone take the sample eat it if i dont feel it pretty quick or is just ok i toss the sample take another one ....
But if its great more then likely you will have a tub full of great fruits ... havent you read ms is a crap shoot?? ...
Cloning is the best way to get good potent and descent flushes its more consitent
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269807 - 04/25/17 01:11 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said:
Quote:
Fungi2TripWit said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Tolerance builds fast and tapers out mostly over a week. I have tried tripping a few days after on several occasions and it just doesn't work. Tolerance to shrooms and lsd builds and works differently than say with weed. If you want to trip the very next day, you have to take 2-3 times as much to get the same level trip. Tested this about 4or 5 times now.
This is what I was looking for... thanks man. So most likely I was tolerant and my buddy just barfed most of his dose. I thought 30 minutes was enough to absorb most of the liquid as it only takes about 20-30 minutes to feel the effects of a pill, and that has to dissolve first.
Eating shrooms only take about 30 for effect drinking tea is almost instant 10 minutes tops any way maybe you made the tea wrong or something
kinda hard to fuck up tea... unless you boil it a few hours on the stove on high I'd imagine. I chopped up mushies put them in a small pot, poured on water that was boiled and sat a couple minutes after the boil, added some loose tea, let sit for 15 minutes stirring occasionally, strained, pressed out remaining water, added sugar, then drank.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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Groo
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269811 - 04/25/17 01:12 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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HAve you ever heard of a thing called Science\experimentation\Tests analysis and repeat forever and ever.
If you were a company that was growing mushrooms for the whole USA it would not make sense to grow a Piece of crap mushroom.
Science for profit must be done in the most scientific way.
But you`re not exactly a mushroom kingpin. No reason to not Isolate test and then test then isolate then test a bit. Piesn;t have to be perfect but better is bettter.
SPECIES % PSILOCYBIN % PSILOCIN % BAEOCYSTIN REFERENCE P. azurenscens 1.78 .38 .35 Stamets and Gartz 1995 P. bohemica 1.34 .11 .02 Gartz and Muller 1989; Gartz (1994) P. semilanceata .98 .02 .36 Gartz 1994 P. baeocystis .85 .59 .10 Repke et al. 1977; Beug and Bigwood 1982(b) P. cyanescens .85 .36 .03 Stijve and Kuyper 1985; Repke et al. 1977 P. tampanensis .68 .32 n/a Gartz 1994 P. cubensis .63 .60 .025 Gartz 1994; Stijve and de Meijer 1993 P. weilii .61 .27 .05 P. hoogshagenii .60 .10 n/a Heim and Hofmann 1958 P. stuntzii .36 .12 .02 Beug and Bigwood 1982(b); Repke et al. 1977 P. cyanofibrillosa .21 .04 n/a Stamets et al. 1980 P. liniformans .16 n/d .005 Stijve and Kuyper
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269813 - 04/25/17 01:13 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24269816 - 04/25/17 01:14 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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chromatography(aka TLC) or paper chromatography is science for measuring potency. Not every one has
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8853761/fpart/all/vc/1
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269819 - 04/25/17 01:14 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I had always read to go longer than that for steeping the shrooms. A little lemon juice can help.
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269832 - 04/25/17 01:24 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said: Pretty much ill take a clone take the sample eat it if i dont feel it pretty quick or is just ok i toss the sample take another one ....
But if its great more then likely you will have a tub full of great fruits ... havent you read ms is a crap shoot?? ...
Cloning is the best way to get good potent and descent flushes its more consitent
I have read and watched videos but not so much in depth. obviously if since I tried to isolate the strongest growing areas of my ms mycelium, and that is wrong, then I have a lot more to learn. I just supposed that if the mycelium was kicking ass on the plate,then transfer those kickass areas of isolation (or whatever the term is), take that a monoculture, then spawn it to grain, then it would kick ass in the bin. To be honest there is a shit ton of information on this site to process and I'm just not at the isolation level yet. I've been messing with agar for months now because I had huge contamination issues in the beginning. But I'm still a rookie.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24269833 - 04/25/17 01:26 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said:
Quote:
c10h12n2o said: since psychadelic trips are by definition subjective, its really damned hard to know what potency is like in any of our projects, unless we have them analyzed with GCMS or something... wish i could find an easy way to objectively measure actives though
since set and setting, body chemistry / physiology, and psychological state have SO much impact, and there are so many factors involved, its nearly impossible to use our subjective evaluation of trips to even guess about objective potency
of course an experienced grower/psychonaut can make informed guesses about how things compare to other batches in similar doses/circumstances/users, but ultimately it is a guess. especially since people can have such different experiences off of similar doses of the same exact batch, simply due to how recently they tripped, stomach contents, whether their parents are divorcing, etc
so its really tough to say for sure... strangely, higher doses dont always equal stronger or better trips, so that really complicates any objective analysis of peoples subjective trip/experience. its like "good cheese" and "bad cheese": 100% subjective.
one person might have an amazing trip off of 3g, and another might experience nothing, or a terrible trip, off of the exact same fruits from the same monoculture tub. the same could happen even with pure chemicals. our subjective experiences dont really tell us much about potency, beyond an informed guess
so when people discuss potency loss from drying, or really ANYTHING relating to potncy, unless they are having them GCMS analyzed before and after, they are ultimately guessing about something objective (potency) based on nothing more than the subjective experiences of them and their friends (trips)
i really wish there was a convenient way to objectively measure active concentrations
C10, for a few $tack$ you could pick one up off eBay and do it. LOL
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269835 - 04/25/17 01:27 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: I had always read to go longer than that for steeping the shrooms. A little lemon juice can help.
when the tea didn't kick in hard, I used the tea/mushroom sludge again and let it sit for 30 minutes to make sure I got it all out. I needed to know I got everything I could get out of it so I could narrow down the problem... the tea wasn't it.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269840 - 04/25/17 01:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm still going with the short term "immediate" tolerance that kicks in after a trip.
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c10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269841 - 04/25/17 01:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Groo said: chromatography(aka TLC) or paper chromatography is science for measuring potency. Not every one has
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8853761/fpart/all/vc/1
right, that would be the GCMS i kept referencing 
there are all kinds of chromatography: Column chromatography, Planar chromatography, Gas chromatography,Liquid chromatography, Supercritical fluid chromatography, Ion exchange chromatography, Size-exclusion chromatography, Expanded bed adsorption chromatographic separation, etc
but this is quite complicated and requires a lot of chem knowledge, not something thats easy for an amateur to do. we can send off and have it done, but it is very expensive.
i have actually contacted several labs for this purpose, but have not been able to find a lab that would test dried fruits for me (much less fresh)
when you read about stamets or gartz or whoever testing some mushroom 30 years ago, they almost always are doing it in a lab they have access to, usually their own or a university they work with. also, those particular figures you referenced are notoriously bad...
given a basic knowledge of how potency seems to vary between MS grows/fruit, why would we expect all of a particular species (especially indoor cultivated) would be identical or even near the exact active content/ratios of particular wild fruits stamets tested decades ago? far too few fruits sampled in those studies to determine an accurate range, much less a typical amount for various species
if you find a lab that will test actives with any kind of chromatography that can accurately measure psilocybin, hit me up PLEASE. ive tried dozens, unsuccessfully
@OP, leave isolates to the professional mycologists and researchers, they can often take hundreds of transfers to obtain anyway: way beyond what you want or need. stick to clone cultures. all you want is a highly organized, aggressive culture. whether it is MS or clone doesnt really matter too much, as long as its organized
that said, use a clone if you have the option, it makes things more even for sure. clone is really a misleading word, because clones almost always have MANY strains present in them as well, so they are really MS as well, just more limited, and limited to genetics which have successfully fruited before (whereas spores are a genetic reset)
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said:
C10, for a few $tack$ you could pick one up off eBay and do it. LOL
lol if it was that simple id have done did it, believe that 
people ask me weekly to help them set up "a supercritical fluid extraction machine" or "a short path distillation apparatus" lol... someone told them how to make good oil they got it all figured out, all they need is me to build em a damn machine not hardly... i always tell them to hire a chemical engineer as a consultant to show them how to use it... people underestimate how difficult this stuff is to do.... these cannabis chemists think everything is as simple as BHO
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Edited by c10h12n2o (04/25/17 01:43 AM)
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit] 1
#24269842 - 04/25/17 01:32 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nothin wrong with ms besides you dont have the consistency you can still pull off killer grows ....
A monoculture is one single strain it takes tons of transfers and even with a true blue isolate you can still have shitty genetics ...
I dont try for isolates just good clean myc, but youre right you want the fastest healthiest looking areas...
What youre misunderstanding or did was when i said it could be from ms i meant it just what it is .... two fruits are pretty much never alike on an ms grow when you see the black spec of a spore its millions of spores a single spore is microscopic
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Fungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269846 - 04/25/17 01:35 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Take a look at this thread if you want. YES it is off the shroomery but it compiles data from users and has it graphed. Many people agree about the short term tolerance. That's why psychedelics are fairly self regulating as far as addiction.
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/479297-The-Big-amp-Dandy-LSD-amp-Shroom-Tolerance-FAQ-and-Discussion-Thread
Love it!! Wonder how many people contributed to this data though.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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c10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269851 - 04/25/17 01:42 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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just remember that chart just a poll, based on peoples subjective evaluations of their subjective experiences... its not objective in any sense... also, i only count 5 points on the chart thats not enough for even a good poll
i think the general idea of short term tolerance is a valid one, and has been demonstrated in actual scientific studies if im not mistaken, but that bluelight chart is very unscientific
anytime people are evaluating themselves its bad science (when it can even be called science at all). if you dont believe it, ask people if they think they are smart, or good drivers lol.... the majority of people drive like shit and everyone agrees, but everyone thinks they drive great lol...
total lack of self awareness in our culture these days (USA)
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269853 - 04/25/17 01:43 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Boogieman47 said: Nothin wrong with ms besides you dont have the consistency you can still pull off killer grows ....
A monoculture is one single strain it takes tons of transfers and even with a true blue isolate you can still have shitty genetics ...
I dont try for isolates just good clean myc, but youre right you want the fastest healthiest looking areas...
What youre misunderstanding or did was when i said it could be from ms i meant it just what it is .... two fruits are pretty much never alike on an ms grow when you see the black spec of a spore its millions of spores a single spore is microscopic
yeah, but honestly, what are the chances I consumed 20 of the most potent samples in my first dose, then say 15 of the shittiest in my second dose. I'd think they are about the same as winning the powerball. I'm sure there is a potency difference between samples in a ms grow, but really, could the margin of difference be 50% between the strongest and weakest sample? I dunno, that's kind of hard to believe.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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c10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269855 - 04/25/17 01:45 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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you are missing the point OP. better question:
what are the odds you would know if you did? (0%)
there is no way to objectively measure or compare potency without a university research lab full of technicians at our disposal
potency doesnt even necessarily = stronger trip. way too many factors involved. so its a misguided question
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269861 - 04/25/17 01:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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As far as isolating a good clone, you want the fastest growing, biggest, and most potent mushroom to clone. Seems like a good idea to just grow ms then pick the biggest and strongest, fastest growing.. clone it, isolate it, then test the flush for potency. If it's not tops, then do another ms and keep repeating until you get the potency you are looking for.. this seems like the best way. Is there a better way to do it?
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/25/17 01:58 AM)
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269866 - 04/25/17 01:56 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well i doubt you took 20 and 15 unless they were tiny it seems more possible if you took say 5 the first time and split 10 with your buddy in a tea ....
I know what youre saying its just hard for me to see your tolerence going up that much on one trip ... i guess its possible but it does depend on alot of factors i had one dude tell me he took 5 grams of my pe and only got a body fry i flat out called him a liar .... but then asked about if he took anti depressants and all that jazz which he did ...
Plus what you ate mental state and setting all comes to play i cant say every trip waa the same ive had hard visuals and other times crazy mental high and other times just felt super drunk ... shrooms do what they want haha...
Get isolating outta your head its a waste if you happen to ger it by chance great but dont worry about it (i mean you are isolating away) but dont stress for an isolate(monoculture).... the biggest shroom isnt always what you want either i go for the one that popped up first, average size, clusters, then i test it .... once on agar transfer anout 3 times then make some jars and a master .... keep transferring and testing
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269873 - 04/25/17 02:04 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Boogieman47 said: Well i doubt you took 20 and 15 unless they were tiny it seems more possible if you took say 5 the first time and split 10 with your buddy in a tea ....
I know what youre saying its just hard for me to see your tolerence going up that much on one trip ... i guess its possible but it does depend on alot of factors i had one dude tell me he took 5 grams of my pe and only got a body fry i flat out called him a liar .... but then asked about if he took anti depressants and all that jazz which he did ...
Plus what you ate mental state and setting all comes to play i cant say every trip waa the same ive had hard visuals and other times crazy mental high and other times just felt super drunk ... shrooms do what they want haha...
Get isolating outta your head its a waste if you happen to ger it by chance great but dont worry about it (i mean you are isolating away) but dont stress for an isolate(monoculture).... the biggest shroom isnt always what you want either i go for the one that popped up first, average size, clusters, then i test it .... once on agar transfer anout 3 times then make some jars and a master .... keep transferring and testing
awesome, big help man. I'm not focusing on it but I'd like to have the knowledge to see good opportunity and also the knowledge to capitalize on it when I see it.
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c10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269878 - 04/25/17 02:07 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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#1 how would you objectively test the potency? how it makes you, or someone else, feel is not an accurate measurement of potency.
#2 isolates are much harder to obtain than you probably realize. it can take hundreds of transfers if you start from a bunch of spores. this is well beyond the reach of most hobby mushroom cultivators, which is why anyone worth their salt says "leave the isolates to pro researchers and mycologists" and "stick to clone cultures"
#3 there are so many factors involved beyond what you are taking into account. potency POTENTIAL is genetic, but potency ACTUALITY could depend on many factors, none of which are well understood (ie, the extent that environment and nutrients impact the production of these compounds, which is debatable until we get some real data). just like a tall black kid might have the POTENTIAL to be a great basketball player, but he could actually spend all his time playing pokemon instead. just like an asian kid has the POTENTIAL to be good at math, but if he doesnt go to school he will suck at calculus. just like a particular race (or even strain) of cube could have the POTENTIAL to be potent, but for whatever reason might not be
of course genetics is the ultimate determiner of potential potency, but actuality can be more nuanced
and to the point of what i keep saying, you wouldnt know which one was more potent (objectively) anyway, only how it makes you feel
short term tolerance seems to be pretty common, but its only 1 of maybe 100 factors that can impact your experience
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269884 - 04/25/17 02:13 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I understand but it will come the more you read and do ... c10 will tell you as much as i, you can think you have an isolate then transfer and it isnt.... just keep going how you are and it will just come to you, when i started ovef a year ago i read,read,read,read till i could recite what i was reading i literally would be on here asking millions of questions ...
I know people who only run a good clone 6 months then toss it and start from ms again....
next grow take a few good candidates and clone them rip the stem in half then scrape the insideand go from there like i said ill test it sometimes if i dont have time for a good trip ill take a small bite if i dont feel a body high i trash it ...
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269889 - 04/25/17 02:16 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea that chart is unscientific, but that thread does show that people are at least reporting a tolerance issue shortly after taking shrooms. The same is said for LSD as well and that is more consistent dosage, well should be if you got enough hits from same source, for trying to figure this out.
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TheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269890 - 04/25/17 02:18 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have often wondered I our brains can only handle so much "tripping" at one time. Our ego can kill a trip when it needs to, well weaken it. I got a bad story of having to concentrate on something to much on a task and it ruined it for me.
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269897 - 04/25/17 02:25 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe at some point in the future we, as a community, can to a study. We can dose the same amount 2 days in a row and compare trips. We will be looking for some sort of correlation. If a majority of us say that the 2nd one was much weaker then we have strong evidence, not proof, that day after tolerance is real. Then some of us brave souls can do it where we double the 2nd day to see how it compares.
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
#24269898 - 04/25/17 02:26 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ill tell you when i first started growing i tested every day for like 2weeks i wouldnt say id take full doses but even on the smaller tests i felt somethin ... for one i cant stand some "factor" telling me my shit is no good so i know for a fact my shit will get you off .... but i have seen people that take certain meds or have slow metabolism tell me (that i believed) it wasnt great ....
One night i ate about 5 grams after a meal say an hour after i didnt feel nothing so i took another 3 and man let me tell you i was on a good one black ops seriously looked like midget monkeys and i was looking into the sky in the video game lmao my chicks kid looked like an ewok....
Edited by Boogieman47 (04/25/17 02:33 AM)
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24269907 - 04/25/17 02:43 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't know man.. I have well over 300 cube trips under my belt and a 3g trip is standard for me. The intensity and experience vary minimally to me I have never taken 3 grams and not been able to see the "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes. I understand the experience can change with set and setting, I also understand what you mean by not being able to measure potency without a gas chromatography setup. But after all these experiences, there are set things that always happen to me at certain doses that I can't remember ever being different. For example, at 1g, body high sometimes with a little curtain movement but rarely. "Kaleidescopes" with eyes closed start with me at 2-2.5g. That may be different for other people, and maybe would be different for me with the new stronger varieties that I haven't yet tried ie. pe or the not so new pan. cyans. The crux of this post is that I took 3g and got no "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes when I always do. I also never dosed twice in a week before this time. With what I've gathered so far from this post is that it's more likely a tolerance issue.
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269911 - 04/25/17 02:51 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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You never have open eye visuals ??
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c10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269914 - 04/25/17 03:01 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said: Maybe at some point in the future we, as a community, can to a study. We can dose the same amount 2 days in a row and compare trips. We will be looking for some sort of correlation. If a majority of us say that the 2nd one was much weaker then we have strong evidence, not proof, that day after tolerance is real. Then some of us brave souls can do it where we double the 2nd day to see how it compares.
not necessary, this has already been done by several universities and even the CIA if im not mistaken, this subject has been covered in lots of studies, i will dig one up if yall want
the concept of short term tolerance is a real one for sure, more obvious in some people than others, but definitely a real thing, and well documented
Quote:
Boogieman47 said: Ill tell you when i first started growing i tested every day for like 2weeks i wouldnt say id take full doses but even on the smaller tests i felt somethin ... for one i cant stand some "factor" telling me my shit is no good so i know for a fact my shit will get you off .... but i have seen people that take certain meds or have slow metabolism tell me (that i believed) it wasnt great ....
One night i ate about 5 grams after a meal say an hour after i didnt feel nothing so i took another 3 and man let me tell you i was on a good one black ops seriously looked like midget monkeys and i was looking into the sky in the video game lmao my chicks kid looked like an ewok....
lol.... exactly! its so subjective, it really is like asking someone "which cheese is good and how much should i eat", its totally subjective (within reason)
i totally feel you on that, its annoying as shit when some fucktard calls something bunk when 20 other people are tripping balls crawling on the floor, ive seen that happen twice. there are all kinds of factors that could have been involved, hell they might have an abundance of an enzyme that breaks down the actives before they hit the blood. there can be huge differences in how people react to similar doses of psychedelics, everything from stomach contents, time since last trip, liver enzymes, and a host of genetic considerations can be influential
there are so many factors involved, its hard enough to figure out whats going on in our own heads, much less someone elses
Quote:
Fungi2TripWit said: I don't know man.. I have well over 300 cube trips under my belt and a 3g trip is standard for me. The intensity and experience vary minimally to me I have never taken 3 grams and not been able to see the "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes. I understand the experience can change with set and setting, I also understand what you mean by not being able to measure potency without a gas chromatography setup. But after all these experiences, there are set things that always happen to me at certain doses that I can't remember ever being different. For example, at 1g, body high sometimes with a little curtain movement but rarely. "Kaleidescopes" with eyes closed start with me at 2-2.5g. That may be different for other people, and maybe would be different for me with the new stronger varieties that I haven't yet tried ie. pe or the not so new pan. cyans. The crux of this post is that I took 3g and got no "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes when I always do. I also never dosed twice in a week before this time. With what I've gathered so far from this post is that it's more likely a tolerance issue.
most likely, short term tolerance, if it was in the same week.
do you understand what i mean by "subjective" vs "objective"? im not sure if you are following that part of the conversation, might connect some dots
Quote:
An objective perspective is one that is not influenced by emotions, opinions, or personal feelings - it is a perspective based in fact, in things quantifiable and measurable. A subjective perspective is one open to greater interpretation based on personal feeling, emotion, aesthetics, etc.
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tombosley8
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24269916 - 04/25/17 03:03 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said: #1 how would you objectively test the potency? how it makes you, or someone else, feel is not an accurate measurement of potency.
#2 isolates are much harder to obtain than you probably realize. it can take hundreds of transfers if you start from a bunch of spores. this is well beyond the reach of most hobby mushroom cultivators, which is why anyone worth their salt says "leave the isolates to pro researchers and mycologists" and "stick to clone cultures"
#3 there are so many factors involved beyond what you are taking into account. potency POTENTIAL is genetic, but potency ACTUALITY could depend on many factors, none of which are well understood (ie, the extent that environment and nutrients impact the production of these compounds, which is debatable until we get some real data). just like a tall black kid might have the POTENTIAL to be a great basketball player, but he could actually spend all his time playing pokemon instead. just like an asian kid has the POTENTIAL to be good at math, but if he doesnt go to school he will suck at calculus. just like a particular race (or even strain) of cube could have the POTENTIAL to be potent, but for whatever reason might not be
of course genetics is the ultimate determiner of potential potency, but actuality can be more nuanced
and to the point of what i keep saying, you wouldnt know which one was more potent (objectively) anyway, only how it makes you feel
short term tolerance seems to be pretty common, but its only 1 of maybe 100 factors that can impact your experience
this and this!
very thorough and enlightening.
definitely puts my thinking into concrete.
Fungi2tripwit: if every 3g trip is the same for you then how would you know which 3g trip was more potent? Just seems like your not understanding that your exprerience cannot judge the amount of actives you are consuming. especially if you have a tolerance.
For me, my experience often has a lot less to do with how much rather than what I did and what I was thinking and feeling in the experience. I'm not saying that I wouldn't feel a 10g dose just that I could feel just as good or better on half that dose in a different situation.
Also I really wanted to add that tolerance to a 3g trip can impact me for even 2 weeks before I can achieve a normal experience. But then again normal is only that for me. Subjective.
but there are some facts(research) that can help backup that idea although it's just an idea.
So objective subjection?
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Edited by tombosley8 (04/25/17 03:15 AM)
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Boogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: tombosley8]
#24269919 - 04/25/17 03:12 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well that makes sense as well, natives are lacking enzymes to help break down liquor so im syre people may have extra enzymes in breaking down certain drugs to the point of not getting off ....
I dont think op was saying much about the three gram trip to the point it being the same but just felt more of a 1 gram trip to his experience i still honestly dont believe it was that much of tolerance but who knows they could of lost potency from not being cracker dried the first time but it was only a few days and they werent too wet.... next trip you take you will know if you still have the same
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269927 - 04/25/17 03:19 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boogieman47 said: You never have open eye visuals ??
Yeah, often. I can have some sort of open eye visuals between 1g - 2g. I was just using those two "mile markers" as examples. Also at 3g - 3.5g music starts to take on an extra "texture".
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24269931 - 04/25/17 03:24 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said:
Quote:
TheMadHatter420 said:
Quote:
Fungi2TripWit said: I don't know man.. I have well over 300 cube trips under my belt and a 3g trip is standard for me. The intensity and experience vary minimally to me I have never taken 3 grams and not been able to see the "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes. I understand the experience can change with set and setting, I also understand what you mean by not being able to measure potency without a gas chromatography setup. But after all these experiences, there are set things that always happen to me at certain doses that I can't remember ever being different. For example, at 1g, body high sometimes with a little curtain movement but rarely. "Kaleidescopes" with eyes closed start with me at 2-2.5g. That may be different for other people, and maybe would be different for me with the new stronger varieties that I haven't yet tried ie. pe or the not so new pan. cyans. The crux of this post is that I took 3g and got no "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes when I always do. I also never dosed twice in a week before this time. With what I've gathered so far from this post is that it's more likely a tolerance issue.
most likely, short term tolerance, if it was in the same week.
do you understand what i mean by "subjective" vs "objective"? im not sure if you are following that part of the conversation, might connect some dots
I do understand, I have a degree in Chemical Engineering. Just never used it in the field because I started my own business.
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: tombosley8]
#24269936 - 04/25/17 03:34 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
tombosley8 said:
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c10h12n2o said:
Fungi2tripwit: if every 3g trip is the same for you then how would you know which 3g trip was more potent? Just seems like your not understanding that your exprerience cannot judge the amount of actives you are consuming. especially if you have a tolerance.
I wouldn't know the difference unless I experienced the huge difference that I explained in the post. I didn't know if it was possible to vary that much in "potency" because it never happened to me before. I regret using the word potency now because it is objective in general but more subjective to me due to the fact that I get the same "mile stones" at certain doses. That may be objective to you and others because your's may often vary. Mine don't. And I never ingest anything other than mushrooms and tea on the day I partake. Granted this time I used green tea and that may also play a part.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24269940 - 04/25/17 03:46 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I see ... my chick doesnt have visuals more mental trips and she ate about 6 grams one night shes never ate a high dose of my pe tho....
Did you read that link about the tea op ?? I think the lemon juice helps extract the actives but check it out for next time ... do you have more of the same tub ??
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Fungi2TripWit
Stranger


Registered: 11/26/16
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24269966 - 04/25/17 04:32 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Boogieman47 said: I see ... my chick doesnt have visuals more mental trips and she ate about 6 grams one night shes never ate a high dose of my pe tho....
Did you read that link about the tea op ?? I think the lemon juice helps extract the actives but check it out for next time ... do you have more of the same tub ??
yeah man, I actually did the lemon juice about 8 months ago. Not per that tek but I just hacked up fresh ones and soaked them in lemon juice for 20-30 minutes and forced it all down. Seemed like it got the actives into my system faster and also ended sooner than usual. It was like it metabolized a noticeable amount faster. Some say it makes it stronger but I think it's just that it feels stronger because more is hitting you faster.
yeah, I've got 18g dried from that tub left and a second flush pinned up.
I do want to check out the pe, but I think I read it doesn't produce spores or something? I couldn't find it in amsterdam... no print or anything.
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/25/17 04:50 AM)
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24270413 - 04/25/17 10:48 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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They produce spores its just pretty rare if they drop most people get a spore swab if they take it themselves but you can order a syringe online no problem check our sponsors
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
#24270767 - 04/25/17 01:55 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tom + boogie: Exactly, good info guys 
That's exactly what I'm referring to, great examples.
Like you said, whole human ethnic groups can or can't process things like milk and alcohol due to lack or abundance of particular enzymes. This is also what leads to the profound differences in natural opiate tolerance.
With a drug as poorly understood as psilocybin there could be numerous enzymatic relationships that aren't even documented yet, and the documented ones vary tremendously between people Like you said, set and setting actually has more impact the anything else in determining a trip, even dosage to a large extent
Even comparing just the physiological aspects of hallucinogens there or a huge range of responses. Some people get relaxed, others tense, blood pressure, pulse,etc can be way different for different people. Some people have literally zero physiological effects beyond pupil dilation , which can also vary
And the mind is much more complicated. Something is subjective as a trip is virtually impossible to communicate effectively, much less compare between people in any objective way
@OP:
No worries buddy, your word choice was fine, it's just A very nuanced topic, and we are throwing a bunch of contextual information at you, to help you see how these ideas relate to one another, and be sure we are onthe same page and talking about the same thing
"Potency" probably is the right word, we just want to put the idea in perspective. Perhaps"subjective potency" or "perceived potency" woulda been more accurate, but we understood what you meant just fine 
We were just making sure we are on the same page and talking about the same thing. Sounds like we are, since we are distinguishing perceived from objective potency 
I actually just did a big giveaway last week, sent out a bunch of PE swabs and prints from my record AA+ yield (295g single fruit, 3.5kgsingle flush off 66qt tub). I ran out and had to call it off a lot sooner than expected haha lots of interest in those two races
Also, if you have a chemical engineering degree then you may very well be able to perform some of chromatography calculations and operate the equipment needed to get objective measurements of active compounds.
Depending on which type of chromatography, you will need to get the equipment and needed supplies, study up on the molecular properties of psilocybin and the other actives, and brush up on the lab protocols for the particular type of chromatography you want to use. The easiest way would be if you have access to a university lab that is already set up for that type of chromatography
If you can pull that off, then you'd be able to get objective measurements. BTW if you do this or find someone who can PLEASE let me know, I would start standing up samples immediately for my research projects
A lot of people think they need a "machine" to do this type of stuff, but what they don't understand is that the equipment is the easy part: knowing what to do and how to do it how to calculate various parts of the analysis is the hard part
Like I said people ask me all the time to build a machine to test THC, or do supercritical fluid extraction, or build a "short path distillation machine" lol... I always told him to hire a consultant who is a chemical engineer or organic expert and tell them exactly what you were trying to do, then buy all the stuff they tell you too,and let them figure it out, then once they have it down smoothly, have them write the protocols and train your staff
That always works waaaaaaay better than an arts major dropping $150,000 on lab equipment they don't know how to use. An expert could show a layman how to do this kind of stuff, teach em the steps etc, but for best results you really need someone who knows what they are doing putting things together , determining processes, and writing protocols
--------------------
 
C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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Groo
sola dosis facit venenum



Registered: 12/06/14
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24273671 - 04/26/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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c10h12n2o said:
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Groo said: chromatography(aka TLC) or paper chromatography is science for measuring potency. Not every one has
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8853761/fpart/all/vc/1
right, that would be the GCMS i kept referencing
I happen to know a PHD is some spectroscopy or chromatography. Lazy bitch was a researcher and now when I ask why don;t your wife have a job, oh no one wants to hore a 40 something lady. Fine, lol if it was my wife shed have a job it gives people a purpose. Keep on struggling tim keep on defeating yourself before you even try. Jobs are a dime a doZen
there are all kinds of chromatography: Column chromatography, Planar chromatography, Gas chromatography,Liquid chromatography, Supercritical fluid chromatography, Ion exchange chromatography, Size-exclusion chromatography, Expanded bed adsorption chromatographic separation, etc
but this is quite complicated and requires a lot of chem knowledge, not something thats easy for an amateur to do. we can send off and have it done, but it is very expensive.
i have actually contacted several labs for this purpose, but have not been able to find a lab that would test dried fruits for me (much less fresh) Sounds like you are speaking in volume. Where does your desire for such accuracy come from. My desire although not as extreme as yours. I have to one day think if there are facilities producing Magic Mrpo for healing purposes and this tyoe of research would have to be done to put out a superior mushroom. Then you morons are like LETS LEGALIZE WEED FIRST 1 THING AT A TIME. No the time is now. But I suggest you either stop the self limiting talk about the prohibitively high cost of the equipment and save up. Or team up with someone that sells pounds and pounds that has little expertise in the scientific area growing and buy a lab and all the testing equipment and turn a profit or just for the glory of researching and recognition paul stamets. Guzman was a humble guy I think. RR the list goes on Alan R. Bhoddista. Chronm, Groo.
when you read about stamets or gartz or whoever testing some mushroom 30 years ago, they almost always are doing it in a lab they have access toit is much closer than you think if you push toward that, usually their own or a university they work with. also, those particular figures you referenced are notoriously bad... I start to think what could I talk to someone about that lived in 1845 and in my mind For a moement I kind of exppect them to be babbling and dragging a club, but they are probably smarter than us so reallym i don;t believe people were capable if fucking up science
given a basic knowledge of how potency seems to vary between MS grows/fruit, why would we expect all of a particular species (especially indoor cultivated) would be identical or even near the exact active content/ratios of particular wild fruits stamets tested decades ago? far too few fruits sampled in those studies to determine an accurate range, much less a typical amount for various species Honsetly, at the end of the day, who has the biggest dick? The Best? Its big but ugly? Is small but fits perfectly? EMERGENCY IM HITTING POST AND LEAVING I will BRB I will refine my message further soon but this guy is makig some of the strongest points and I have rarely met 1 whos such intricate knowledge and willinness to teach hit me top 10 hard.
if you find a lab that will test actives with any kind of chromatography that can accurately measure psilocybin, hit me up PLEASE. ive tried dozens, unsuccessfully
@OP, leave isolates to the professional mycologists and researchers, they can often take hundreds of transfers to obtain anyway: way beyond what you want or need. stick to clone cultures. all you want is a highly organized, aggressive culture. whether it is MS or clone doesnt really matter too much, as long as its organized
that said, use a clone if you have the option, it makes things more even for sure. clone is really a misleading word, because clones almost always have MANY strains present in them as well, so they are really MS as well, just more limited, and limited to genetics which have successfully fruited before (whereas spores are a genetic reset)Ooooooooo This is new to groo!
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TheMadHatter420 said:
C10, for a few $tack$ you could pick one up off eBay and do it. LOL
lol if it was that simple id have done did it, believe that 
people ask me weekly to help them set up "a supercritical fluid extraction machine" or "a short path distillation apparatus" lol... someone told them how to make good oil they got it all figured out, all they need is me to build em a damn machine not hardly... i always tell them to hire a chemical engineer as a consultant to show them how to use it... people underestimate how difficult this stuff is to do.... these cannabis chemists think everything is as simple as BHO 
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FckingNameless
Stranger



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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Groo]
#24273922 - 04/26/17 05:13 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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found this link the other day that put some light on questions I had like the degradation of alkaloids at room temp vs freeze temp and dephosphorilation of psilocybin on acid ph/heat etc, some interesting sources on the bottom of the page
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psilocin.extraction.html
C10 I have a guy that runs HPLC on some drugs for me(mostly steroids) but he's a very smart guy and I know he tests a lot of drugs, I'll PM you his website.
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lovelaughlibs
Dopamine Slave



Registered: 10/14/15
Posts: 1,811
Loc: England
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: FckingNameless]
#24274186 - 04/26/17 06:52 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Psilocin (alongside oral DMT) has been well known for having effects significantly different than you would expect from X dosage. Tolerance also builds after a single dose and is largely gone after a week and almost completely gone after 2 weeks. Some of the tolerance to the "magic" or "spirituality" can take up to a few months to be totally gone for some people, but this is possible a psychological tolerance factor rather than a physiological one. As in, your brain is now used to the magic and it's old hat to you until you take a month+ break.
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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Fungi2TripWit
Stranger


Registered: 11/26/16
Posts: 97
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24274650 - 04/26/17 10:36 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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c10h12n2o said:[/i
I actually just did a big giveaway last week, sent out a bunch of PE swabs and prints from my record AA+ yield (295g single fruit, 3.5kgsingle flush off 66qt tub). I ran out and had to call it off a lot sooner than expected haha lots of interest in those two races
Damn, sad I missed that. Although I now live in a foreign country and spores are illegal here. I'm not sure I would risk getting mail with illegal stuff in it. For me it feels a lot safer just to spend the weekend in Amsterdam and pick up what I can and come back home with it. Open borders in the EU and all.
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Also, if you have a chemical engineering degree then you may very well be able to perform some of chromatography calculations and operate the equipment needed to get objective measurements of active compounds.
Depending on which type of chromatography, you will need to get the equipment and needed supplies, study up on the molecular properties of psilocybin and the other actives, and brush up on the lab protocols for the particular type of chromatography you want to use. The easiest way would be if you have access to a university lab that is already set up for that type of chromatography
If you can pull that off, then you'd be able to get objective measurements. BTW if you do this or find someone who can PLEASE let me know, I would start standing up samples immediately for my research projects
A lot of people think they need a "machine" to do this type of stuff, but what they don't understand is that the equipment is the easy part: knowing what to do and how to do it how to calculate various parts of the analysis is the hard part
Like I said people ask me all the time to build a machine to test THC, or do supercritical fluid extraction, or build a "short path distillation machine" lol... I always told him to hire a consultant who is a chemical engineer or organic expert and tell them exactly what you were trying to do, then buy all the stuff they tell you too,and let them figure it out, then once they have it down smoothly, have them write the protocols and train your staff
That always works waaaaaaay better than an arts major dropping $150,000 on lab equipment they don't know how to use. An expert could show a layman how to do this kind of stuff, teach em the steps etc, but for best results you really need someone who knows what they are doing putting things together , determining processes, and writing protocols
It's been almost 30 years since I graduated from Drexel. My last year there, I did my first heroic dose and realized my drive for studying CE was only to synthesize drugs. I also realized I would most likely die an early death if I stayed on course. I made a huge life change and never looked back. It was expensive, but I am still alive. It's been so long since I have read or have had interest in chemistry that I would struggle to balance a simple equation at this point. Obviously I've also become a lot more impatient and lazy in my older years or I would have used simple scientific method to figure this out on my own instead of asking on here.
Is that Serotonin in your handle c10? or one of its isomers?
-------------------- Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!
Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/26/17 11:06 PM)
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
#24274832 - 04/27/17 12:40 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah its supposed to be, but i started using this handle like 15 years ago, before i realized that those "formulas" dont really mean much 
for example, how would you like a big fat shot of C21H30O2?
will it get you stoned, or chemically castrate you? 
THC has the same chemical formula as progesterone (pregnancy hormone)
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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