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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269855 - 04/25/17 01:45 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

you are missing the point OP. better question:

what are the odds you would know if you did? (0%)

there is no way to objectively measure or compare potency without a university research lab full of technicians at our disposal

potency doesnt even necessarily = stronger trip. way too many factors involved. so its a misguided question

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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269861 - 04/25/17 01:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

As far as isolating a good clone, you want the fastest growing, biggest, and most potent mushroom to clone.  Seems like a good idea to just grow ms then pick the biggest and strongest, fastest growing.. clone it, isolate it, then test the flush for potency.  If it's not tops, then do another ms and keep repeating until you get the potency you are looking for.. this seems like the best way.  Is there a better way to do it?


--------------------
Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!



   

Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/25/17 01:58 AM)

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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269866 - 04/25/17 01:56 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Well i doubt you took 20 and 15 unless they were tiny it seems more possible if you took say 5 the first time and split 10 with your buddy in a tea ....

I know what youre saying its just hard for me to see your tolerence going up that much on one trip ... i guess its possible but it does depend on alot of factors i had one dude tell me he took 5 grams of my pe and only got a body fry i flat out called him a liar .... but then asked about if he took anti depressants and all that jazz which he did ...


Plus what you ate mental state and setting all comes to play i cant say every trip waa the same ive had hard visuals and other times crazy mental high and other times just felt super drunk ... shrooms do what they want haha...


Get isolating outta your head its a waste if you happen to ger it by chance great but dont worry about it (i mean you are isolating away) but dont stress for an isolate(monoculture).... the biggest shroom isnt always what you want either i go for the one that popped up first, average size, clusters, then i test it .... once on agar transfer anout 3 times then make some jars and a master .... keep transferring and testing


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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24269873 - 04/25/17 02:04 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Boogieman47 said:
Well i doubt you took 20 and 15 unless they were tiny it seems more possible if you took say 5 the first time and split 10 with your buddy in a tea ....

I know what youre saying its just hard for me to see your tolerence going up that much on one trip ... i guess its possible but it does depend on alot of factors i had one dude tell me he took 5 grams of my pe and only got a body fry i flat out called him a liar .... but then asked about if he took anti depressants and all that jazz which he did ...


Plus what you ate mental state and setting all comes to play i cant say every trip waa the same ive had hard visuals and other times crazy mental high and other times just felt super drunk ... shrooms do what they want haha...


Get isolating outta your head its a waste if you happen to ger it by chance great but dont worry about it (i mean you are isolating away) but dont stress for an isolate(monoculture).... the biggest shroom isnt always what you want either i go for the one that popped up first, average size, clusters, then i test it .... once on agar transfer anout 3 times then make some jars and a master .... keep transferring and testing




awesome, big help man.  I'm not focusing on it but I'd like to have the knowledge to see good opportunity and also the knowledge to capitalize on it when I see it.


--------------------
Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!



   

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269878 - 04/25/17 02:07 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

#1 how would you objectively test the potency? how it makes you, or someone else, feel is not an accurate measurement of potency.

#2 isolates are much harder to obtain than you probably realize. it can take hundreds of transfers if you start from a bunch of spores. this is well beyond the reach of most hobby mushroom cultivators, which is why anyone worth their salt says "leave the isolates to pro researchers and mycologists" and "stick to clone cultures"

#3 there are so many factors involved beyond what you are taking into account. potency POTENTIAL is genetic, but potency ACTUALITY could depend on many factors, none of which are well understood (ie, the extent that environment and nutrients impact the production of these compounds, which is debatable until we get some real data). just like a tall black kid might have the POTENTIAL to be a great basketball player, but he could actually spend all his time playing pokemon instead. just like an asian kid has the POTENTIAL to be good at math, but if he doesnt go to school he will suck at calculus. just like a particular race (or even strain) of cube could have the POTENTIAL to be potent, but for whatever reason might not be

of course genetics is the ultimate determiner of potential potency, but actuality can be more nuanced

and to the point of what i keep saying, you wouldnt know which one was more potent (objectively) anyway, only how it makes you feel

short term tolerance seems to be pretty common, but its only 1 of maybe 100 factors that can impact your experience


--------------------

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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269884 - 04/25/17 02:13 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I understand but it will come the more you read and do ... c10 will tell you as much as i, you can think you have an isolate then transfer and it isnt.... just keep going how you are and it will just come to you, when i started ovef a year ago i read,read,read,read till i could recite what i was reading i literally would be on here asking millions of questions ...


I know people who only run a good clone 6 months then toss it and start from ms again....

next grow take a few good candidates and clone them rip the stem in half then scrape the insideand go from there like i said ill test it sometimes if i dont have time for a good trip ill take a small bite if i dont feel a body high i trash it ...


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24269889 - 04/25/17 02:16 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Yea that chart is unscientific, but that thread does show that people are at least reporting a tolerance issue shortly after taking shrooms. The same is said for LSD as well and that is more consistent dosage, well should be if you got enough hits from same source, for trying to figure this out.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24269890 - 04/25/17 02:18 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I have often wondered I our brains can only handle so much "tripping" at one time. Our ego can kill a trip when it needs to, well weaken it. I got a bad story of having to concentrate on something to much on a task and it ruined it for me.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24269897 - 04/25/17 02:25 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe at some point in the future we, as a community, can to a study. We can dose the same amount 2 days in a row and compare trips. We will be looking for some sort of correlation. If a majority of us say that the 2nd one was much weaker then we have strong evidence, not proof, that day after tolerance is real. Then some of us brave souls can do it where we double the 2nd day to see how it compares.


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24269898 - 04/25/17 02:26 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Ill tell you when i first started growing i tested every day for like 2weeks i wouldnt say id take full doses but even on the smaller tests i felt somethin ... for one i cant stand some "factor" telling me my shit is no good so i know for a fact my shit will get you off .... but i have seen people that take certain meds or have slow metabolism tell me (that i believed) it wasnt great ....


One night i ate about 5 grams after a meal say an hour after i didnt feel nothing so i took another 3 and man let me tell you i was on a good one black ops seriously looked like midget monkeys and i was looking into the sky in the video game lmao my chicks kid looked like an ewok....


--------------------

Edited by Boogieman47 (04/25/17 02:33 AM)

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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24269907 - 04/25/17 02:43 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know man.. I have well over 300 cube trips under my belt and a 3g trip is standard for me.  The intensity and experience vary minimally to me I have never taken 3 grams and not been able to see the "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes.  I understand the experience can change with set and setting, I also understand what you mean by not being able to measure potency without a gas chromatography setup.  But after all these experiences, there are set things that always happen to me at certain doses that I can't remember ever being different.  For example, at 1g, body high sometimes with a little curtain movement but rarely.  "Kaleidescopes" with eyes closed start with me at 2-2.5g.  That may be different for other people, and maybe would be different for me with the new stronger varieties that I haven't yet tried ie. pe or the not so new pan. cyans.  The crux of this post is that I took 3g and got no "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes when I always do.  I also never dosed twice in a week before this time.  With what I've gathered so far from this post is that it's more likely a tolerance issue.


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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269911 - 04/25/17 02:51 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

You never have open eye visuals ??


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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269914 - 04/25/17 03:01 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
Maybe at some point in the future we, as a community, can to a study. We can dose the same amount 2 days in a row and compare trips. We will be looking for some sort of correlation. If a majority of us say that the 2nd one was much weaker then we have strong evidence, not proof, that day after tolerance is real. Then some of us brave souls can do it where we double the 2nd day to see how it compares.




not necessary, this has already been done by several universities and even the CIA if im not mistaken, this subject has been covered in lots of studies, i will dig one up if yall want

the concept of short term tolerance is a real one for sure, more obvious in some people than others, but definitely a real thing, and well documented

Quote:

Boogieman47 said:
Ill tell you when i first started growing i tested every day for like 2weeks i wouldnt say id take full doses but even on the smaller tests i felt somethin ... for one i cant stand some "factor" telling me my shit is no good so i know for a fact my shit will get you off .... but i have seen people that take certain meds or have slow metabolism tell me (that i believed) it wasnt great ....


One night i ate about 5 grams after a meal say an hour after i didnt feel nothing so i took another 3 and man let me tell you i was on a good one black ops seriously looked like midget monkeys and i was looking into the sky in the video game lmao my chicks kid looked like an ewok....




lol.... exactly! its so subjective, it really is like asking someone "which cheese is good and how much should i eat", its totally subjective (within reason)

i totally feel you on that, its annoying as shit when some fucktard calls something bunk when 20 other people are tripping balls crawling on the floor, ive seen that happen twice. there are all kinds of factors that could have been involved, hell they might have an abundance of an enzyme that breaks down the actives before they hit the blood. there can be huge differences in how people react to similar doses of psychedelics, everything from stomach contents, time since last trip, liver enzymes, and a host of genetic considerations can be influential

there are so many factors involved, its hard enough to figure out whats going on in our own heads, much less someone elses

Quote:

Fungi2TripWit said:
I don't know man.. I have well over 300 cube trips under my belt and a 3g trip is standard for me.  The intensity and experience vary minimally to me I have never taken 3 grams and not been able to see the "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes.  I understand the experience can change with set and setting, I also understand what you mean by not being able to measure potency without a gas chromatography setup.  But after all these experiences, there are set things that always happen to me at certain doses that I can't remember ever being different.  For example, at 1g, body high sometimes with a little curtain movement but rarely.  "Kaleidescopes" with eyes closed start with me at 2-2.5g.  That may be different for other people, and maybe would be different for me with the new stronger varieties that I haven't yet tried ie. pe or the not so new pan. cyans.  The crux of this post is that I took 3g and got no "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes when I always do.  I also never dosed twice in a week before this time.  With what I've gathered so far from this post is that it's more likely a tolerance issue.




most likely, short term tolerance, if it was in the same week.

do you understand what i mean by "subjective" vs "objective"? im not sure if you are following that part of the conversation, might connect some dots

Quote:

An objective perspective is one that is not influenced by emotions, opinions, or personal feelings - it is a perspective based in fact, in things quantifiable and measurable. A subjective perspective is one open to greater interpretation based on personal feeling, emotion, aesthetics, etc.




--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24269916 - 04/25/17 03:03 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
#1 how would you objectively test the potency? how it makes you, or someone else, feel is not an accurate measurement of potency.

#2 isolates are much harder to obtain than you probably realize. it can take hundreds of transfers if you start from a bunch of spores. this is well beyond the reach of most hobby mushroom cultivators, which is why anyone worth their salt says "leave the isolates to pro researchers and mycologists" and "stick to clone cultures"

#3 there are so many factors involved beyond what you are taking into account. potency POTENTIAL is genetic, but potency ACTUALITY could depend on many factors, none of which are well understood (ie, the extent that environment and nutrients impact the production of these compounds, which is debatable until we get some real data). just like a tall black kid might have the POTENTIAL to be a great basketball player, but he could actually spend all his time playing pokemon instead. just like an asian kid has the POTENTIAL to be good at math, but if he doesnt go to school he will suck at calculus. just like a particular race (or even strain) of cube could have the POTENTIAL to be potent, but for whatever reason might not be

of course genetics is the ultimate determiner of potential potency, but actuality can be more nuanced

and to the point of what i keep saying, you wouldnt know which one was more potent (objectively) anyway, only how it makes you feel

short term tolerance seems to be pretty common, but its only 1 of maybe 100 factors that can impact your experience



this and this!

very thorough and enlightening.

definitely puts my thinking into concrete.

Fungi2tripwit:
if every 3g trip is the same for you then how would you know which 3g trip was more potent? Just seems like your not understanding that your exprerience cannot judge the amount of actives you are consuming.  especially if you have a tolerance.


For me, my experience often has a lot less to do with how much rather than what I did and what I was thinking and feeling in the experience. I'm not saying that I wouldn't feel a 10g dose just that I could feel just as good or better on half that dose in a different situation.

Also I really wanted to add that tolerance to a 3g trip can impact me for even 2 weeks before I can achieve a normal experience.  But then again normal is only that for me. Subjective.

but there are some facts(research) that can help backup that idea although it's just an idea.

So objective subjection?


--------------------

Edited by tombosley8 (04/25/17 03:15 AM)

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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: tombosley8]
    #24269919 - 04/25/17 03:12 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Well that makes sense as well, natives are lacking enzymes to help break down liquor so im syre people may have extra enzymes in breaking down certain drugs to the point of not getting off ....

I dont think op was saying much about the three gram trip to the point it being the same but just felt more of a 1 gram trip to his experience i still honestly dont believe it was that much of tolerance but who knows they could of lost potency from not being cracker dried the first time but it was only a few days and they werent too wet.... next trip you take you will know if you still have the same


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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24269927 - 04/25/17 03:19 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Boogieman47 said:
You never have open eye visuals ??




Yeah, often.  I can have some sort of open eye visuals between 1g - 2g.  I was just using those two "mile markers" as examples.  Also at 3g - 3.5g music starts to take on an extra "texture".


--------------------
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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24269931 - 04/25/17 03:24 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:


Quote:

Fungi2TripWit said:
I don't know man.. I have well over 300 cube trips under my belt and a 3g trip is standard for me.  The intensity and experience vary minimally to me I have never taken 3 grams and not been able to see the "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes.  I understand the experience can change with set and setting, I also understand what you mean by not being able to measure potency without a gas chromatography setup.  But after all these experiences, there are set things that always happen to me at certain doses that I can't remember ever being different.  For example, at 1g, body high sometimes with a little curtain movement but rarely.  "Kaleidescopes" with eyes closed start with me at 2-2.5g.  That may be different for other people, and maybe would be different for me with the new stronger varieties that I haven't yet tried ie. pe or the not so new pan. cyans.  The crux of this post is that I took 3g and got no "kaleidescopes" when I closed my eyes when I always do.  I also never dosed twice in a week before this time.  With what I've gathered so far from this post is that it's more likely a tolerance issue.




most likely, short term tolerance, if it was in the same week.

do you understand what i mean by "subjective" vs "objective"? im not sure if you are following that part of the conversation, might connect some dots








I do understand, I have a degree in Chemical Engineering.  Just never used it in the field because I started my own business.


--------------------
Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!



   

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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: tombosley8]
    #24269936 - 04/25/17 03:34 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tombosley8 said:
Quote:

c10h12n2o said:


Fungi2tripwit:
if every 3g trip is the same for you then how would you know which 3g trip was more potent? Just seems like your not understanding that your exprerience cannot judge the amount of actives you are consuming.  especially if you have a tolerance.




I wouldn't know the difference unless I experienced the huge difference that I explained in the post.  I didn't know if it was possible to vary that much in "potency" because it never happened to me before.  I regret using the word potency now because it is objective in general but more subjective to me due to the fact that I get the same "mile stones" at certain doses.  That may be objective to you and others because your's may often vary.  Mine don't.  And I never ingest anything other than mushrooms and tea on the day I partake.  Granted this time I used green tea and that may also play a part.


--------------------
Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!



   

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InvisibleBoogieman47
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Fungi2TripWit]
    #24269940 - 04/25/17 03:46 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I see ... my chick doesnt have visuals more mental trips and she ate about 6 grams one night shes never ate a high dose of my pe tho....


Did you read that link about the tea op ?? I think the lemon juice helps extract the actives but check it out for next time ... do you have more of the same tub ??


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OfflineFungi2TripWit
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Re: possible potency loss issue, or tolerance? [Re: Boogieman47]
    #24269966 - 04/25/17 04:32 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Boogieman47 said:
I see ... my chick doesnt have visuals more mental trips and she ate about 6 grams one night shes never ate a high dose of my pe tho....


Did you read that link about the tea op ?? I think the lemon juice helps extract the actives but check it out for next time ... do you have more of the same tub ??




yeah man, I actually did the lemon juice about 8 months ago.  Not per that tek but I just hacked up fresh ones and soaked them in lemon juice for 20-30 minutes and forced it all down.  Seemed like it got the actives into my system faster and also ended sooner than usual.  It was like it metabolized a noticeable amount faster.  Some say it makes it stronger but I think it's just that it feels stronger because more is hitting you faster.

yeah, I've got 18g dried from that tub left and a second flush pinned up.

I do want to check out the pe, but I think I read it doesn't produce spores or something?  I couldn't find it in amsterdam... no print or anything.


--------------------
Interviewer: Mr. Zappa, why are you still smoking if you have cancer? Frank: The cancer is in my ass man!



   

Edited by Fungi2TripWit (04/25/17 04:50 AM)

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