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OfflineAnonXO
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WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours
    #24264773 - 04/22/17 06:45 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I poured boiling water on my WBS and let it sit for 24 hours because I was busy. Now it smells like it's been decomposing.

Has this happened to you before?

Should I still use it?

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InvisibleChRnZN
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: AnonXO]
    #24264789 - 04/22/17 06:51 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I would not recommend using it.

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Invisibleshroomer1234567
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: AnonXO]
    #24264793 - 04/22/17 06:54 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I thought it was meant to smell pretty nasty after 24 hr soak as u just germinated all the endospores in the birdseed. However they are also now all easier to kill in the PC I may b wrong but I'm pretty damn sure

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InvisibleChRnZN
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: shroomer1234567]
    #24264796 - 04/22/17 06:55 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

^ Might make sense.  I could be wrong.

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InvisibleErrl_Shmirl
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: ChRnZN]
    #24264835 - 04/22/17 07:07 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Long time cultivator/lurker, New Member

Ive used WBS for a while and have found that 24hours is the max time for it to soak. This is my simple tek, I usually soak mine for 16 to 18hours, No hot water involved, Take out as many of the floaters and the sunflower seeds as u can, stirring to liberate the trapped ones, I leave a few (very few) of the sunflower seeds bc i read the lignin in them is beneficial. I rinse sometimes 5 to 10 times before the water is clean for the soak, add up to 5% gypsom to WBS dry weight ( I usually add 2.5% powdered gypsum) stir a few times during soak, Drain all water off in the worlds biggest strainer not rinsing again. Wait till all excess water has drained off and pack jars a sterilize. U do not want any excess water in the bottom of you jars, if u do, then the WBS needs to strain longer.

This is my first advice post on this site, so if any senor members thinks ive made a mistake in my technique please comment so i can make an adjustment.

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: Errl_Shmirl]
    #24264855 - 04/22/17 07:13 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Many agree that soaking longer causes more endospores than was previously there, contrary to the old information.

With wbs you definitely can just soak with boiling water overnight, strain and load. Don't need to remove floaters, or even add gypsum, haven't used it in spawn for many years now.


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InvisibleJewishLawyer
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: Mad Season]
    #24264872 - 04/22/17 07:19 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

My WBS has a kinda "fermented" smell to it before I load it into the PC. Never had any problems with it and i've done 24 hour soaks, I just drain the smelly water and replace it throughout the process if i'm doing a 24 hour soak.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: JewishLawyer]
    #24264890 - 04/22/17 07:26 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

ooo that smell. thats birdseed bro. it will have a fermented kinda smell. no prob.

i know it sounds kinda dogmatic but ive been soaking wbs for sooo long doing 24hr method
if it caused extra endo germination or whatever it sure doesnt effect anything. IME only.

not trying to make any hardliner claims. but you couldnt sell me the soaking endo theory.

and keep that water!!! make grain water agar:thumbup:

just add agar and enjoy. its kinda hard to manage the nutes tho.

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: mushboy]
    #24264904 - 04/22/17 07:38 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

There's so many reasons why it does work for some and not for others. Grain brands and source affect that. As well as grain size. Larger grains are harder to sterilise because the interior won't heat up so fast. Wbs is very small, so there's a higher chance it will be fully sterilized. But if we were to talk strictly about the behaviour of bacteria, you most certainly will have large endospore populations after a soak, as seen here:

Quote:

bodhisatta said:



clostridum butyricum from brewers grain(rye malt) it's very heat resistant because of the spores. it is responsible for the most part in the rancid smell if you let grains soak too long. it will survive the boil and is why your grains go bad and smell like puke and Greek feet feta if you don't sterilize them after your grain prep.

it forms endospores even culture on anaerobic plates with an abidance of nutrients. as you can see some subset of the population finds it appropriate to form endospores despite not having "bad conditions" as conditions get worse spore formation goes up. I would be nearly positive you end up with more endospores if you do a soak than if you skip a soak, either way these DO get killed by a PC in a sufficient cycle.





But whatever, I find waiting 24 hr is too long anyways and they get pretty rancid smelling. 12-18 hours started with boiling water works just fine. Loaded wet, it'll absorb it up during the PC.


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: WBS stinks after sitting for 24 hours [Re: Mad Season]
    #24265017 - 04/22/17 08:44 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Many agree that soaking longer causes more endospores than was previously there, contrary to the old information.
Don't need to remove floaters, or even add gypsum, haven't used it in spawn for many years now.



This is correct.  By the way, it's not just endospores that multiply by 2 every two hours either.  Endospores are the biggest threat to our sterilization cycles due to their extremely tough exoskeleton. 

Some endospores even survive sterilization everytime, but are so knocked back by sterilization that they cannot recover before heathy cultures inoculated in a timely fashion come through, and consume them.  This is why/how if a jar is sterilized, and left uninoculated for a month, or two that bacteria, and mold begin to grow. 

Soaking for 24 hours isn't a deal breaker.  It's a step in the wrong direction, though, if the goal is to produce sterilized (or as close as is humanly possible to achieve actual sterilization) grain mediums.  The longer grains are soaked, the higher the favor is given to endospores to survive the sterilization process is all.  Any soaking over 48-72 hours is a deal breaker.  Depending on ambient temperature. 

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You shouldn't soak any grains for 48 hours.  We've learned that the hard way.  They will turn rancid.  In addition, most bacterial endospores that germinate begin to make new endospores within a few hours, so you can easily end up with more bacteria than you started with, many of which can survive the pressure cooker.  Soak 24 hours max.  Boiling the grains before loading the jars will add the extra moisture, but remember, slightly dry grains colonize much faster.  You don't want them at 100% capacity. 
RR




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12671153#12671153


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