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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique.
#24262568 - 04/21/17 08:11 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey all. Been ages. Hope you've all been well.
I'm starting back up, long way from noobville when it comes to this stuff but I have half an idea for continuous growth I wanted to run by Ya'll.
My standard operating procedure is spawn bags of popcorn injected with liquid culture (yes I know Rye is awesome but I have an amazing deal on popcorn and have always had good results).
Once these colonize, I spawn to bulk (coir, verm, manure) and pop into 16 quart tubs to colonize further and when ready I toss 6 tubs at a time in the Greenhouse. Wait for fruits. Pretty basic.
My question is this: Colonizing a bag of popcorn takes roughly 2 or 3 weeks, then the tub I spawn to needs to colonize for another 2 or 3 weeks.
My thoughts are in making BRF spawn bags along with the popcorn bags(liquid culture again). The assumption is these both would take the usual 3 weeks to fully colonize; only now when I'm spawning to bulk with the popcorn and waiting on the tubs to finish colonizing, the idea is the BRF bags will just be getting ready to pin and fruit in the bags on their own.
My thought process is basically in the 'downtime' of waiting on my bulks to colonize tubs, I have the pf bags producing. Killing some gaps in production/time.
Does this appear like a sound idea or is it so simple that I'm missing an obvious flaw?
Thanks!
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal] 1
#24262573 - 04/21/17 08:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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How amazing a deal are you getting for popcorn? It's almost as expensive as RGS where I live. I get 100 lbs of animal grade wheat for 20 bucks.
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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24262589 - 04/21/17 08:22 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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About 85c a pound.
I know it doesn't beat lower cost Rye. I used to use Rye exclusively in bulk, delivered from online... And then one bag I got... No clue wtf happened but every single spawn bag I made from it contaminated. Frustrated as all hell I went to local store and picked up a few bags of popcorn. Followed same procedures as usual... No contams.
Not sure if I just had a funky Rye bag or what but ever since I've just always stuck with popcorn. It works for me.
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,999
Loc:
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#24262611 - 04/21/17 08:32 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Does this appear like a sound idea or is it so simple that I'm missing an obvious flaw?
Sorry I'm awful at mincing words, nothing you said sounds like a good idea.
Do spawn bags if you have a flowhood, they're a bitch in a SAB. Anyway, I don't think you really need spawn bags unless you plan on being a shroom factory, otherwise you can get more shrooms using quart jars than you'll know what to do with.
Pf sub bags, that's just wrong for lots of reasons, don't do it.
LC's yes, but only if you are confident you can do clean LC from clean agar cultures. Judging from your post I guess you want to inoculate your LC's with spores, which is just horrible.
If you want to have continuous grows just do agar, it'll allow you to expand your cultures hugely and you'll always have clean inoculant to work with, then when you master agar, fuck around with LC's as much as you want
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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: Josex]
#24262641 - 04/21/17 08:43 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not sure what you mean by inoculate lc with spore.
For the full run down on bulk, here is what I do. Again this process has always been successful for me.
Take multi spore and noc up very small jars of grain. Less than half full.
Once fully colonized I use still air box and inject sterile water with a sterile syringe. Then I shake the jar mercilessly. Then suck up the liquid myc into syringe.
Then I go through the normal process with grain. Wash, simmer, dry, place into bags and PC.
Once they are ready, I noc up with the LC. I wait until colonized. Then I mix this into a 16 q tub of pasteurized poo, coir, Verm. Wait for this to colonize. Place into Greenhouse (with correct timed humidity) and wait for flushes.
This process works fine for me.
My question is in regard to PF tek bags. Is it advisable to make these, pc them, and noc these up with liquid LC. They sit on a shelf with grains to colonize. Only when the grains are ready to spawn to bulk.. The pf tek bags are fully colonized and ready to start fruiting in the bag in the set it and forget it fashion.
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
Edited by HeavyMetal (04/21/17 08:45 PM)
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,999
Loc:
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal]
#24262662 - 04/21/17 08:55 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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What you want to do is called GLC (grain LC), it is an outdated method an very low on the totem pole as far as liquid inoculants go. I won't go into detail as to why is a rather poor option, I'd rather leave that to you to research and if you can't be bothered to look up information on new (and easy) methods then you probably deserve the GLC, the pf tek bags and all that's coming to you.
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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: Josex]
#24262677 - 04/21/17 09:02 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Grain lc's have always worked great for me over the last 10 years. There might be better methods G2G being one of them,but why change what works for me.
My main curiosity is the effectiveness of doing a BRF spawn bag with an LC. I've heard mixed reviews that it is too dense and others say it works just fine. These Brf bags are just 'bonus' throwaways if anything, but wanted to take a litmus test on the pros and cons.
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal]
#24262680 - 04/21/17 09:05 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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if they are too dense, add coir. problem solved.
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal]
#24262707 - 04/21/17 09:23 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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idk what you even mean by BRF spawn bags... sounds like a terrible idea vs grain spawn
the point of making spawn is to have lots of little pieces/points of colonized grain to spread the colony, BRF totally misses that
if you always say "x is how i do things, why change it?" then you will have a hard time understanding the pros and cons of various methods of doing things, and when they are called for
you can hear what we are saying or not, but you are doing lots of things that sound like bad ideas... sure, it might work for you, but it works in spite of less-than-ideal technique, not because of it
cubes are incredibly hardy, you have to fuck up BAD to be "unsuccessful". that said, there are well-established ways to be WAY "successful", and then there are things that we have all seen associated with problems enough to recommend against them (like popcorn)
as to your original question: why not just stagger monotubs? that is the easiest way in the world to have continuous harvests, though i prefer to time them so that i dont have to harvest EVERY day... but if thats what you want to do, just manage your schedule well and keep grain spawn ready to go and prep a new monotub every day or 3, you will have continuous harvests in no time, fruits as heavy as Meshuggah
--------------------
 
C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Edited by c10h12n2o (04/21/17 09:47 PM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: Munchauzen]
#24262711 - 04/21/17 09:24 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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like, uh, what.. uh do you mean lc?
you mean like spores into LC? thats a bad idea.
you did not mention cleaning up your inoculate at all. spores, LC, corn...'game plan'?? sounds like failure.
sorry bro.
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spore-ty



Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 1,028
Loc: In the bush
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: mushboy]
#24262784 - 04/21/17 09:57 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Op if you don't mind me asking whyd you take a hiatuses from growing?
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: spore-ty]
#24263313 - 04/22/17 03:19 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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A much better solution would be to stagger your production.
Start spawn , wait X amount of time, start more spawn. Have spawn in varying stages of colonization.
Cut out the GLC. Its a very poor method. Learn to culture on agar, and for God's sake lose the popcorn. Wild Bird Seed is cheaper than 85c a pound nan. Popcorn is all time worst grain for spawn
--------------------

Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A
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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: mushpunx]
#24263459 - 04/22/17 07:09 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Let's forget I mentioned popcorn. I'll continue to use it because it has always worked great, it's clean. I don't need to pre soak for 24 hours. Just simmer and go. It just works for me. I'm happy to pay 80c a pound for the convenience.
I will continue using grain lc's because again, I've never had issues and it works great for me.
These were not things I was asking about. My bulk growing capabilities are fine.
I have a fully automated Greenhouse so no monotubs are needed.
My question is simply the pros and cons of BRF and Verm in a spawn bag. As a throwaway side project that is set it and forget it to produce during the little 2 or 3 week hiatus between tub flushes. If coir can be added to make less dense, etc. That's it. Actual opinions with information. Not just "it's a super bad idea, your whole plan is so terrible"
To answer spores question, hiatus due to life. Had cancer in 2015 and all that nonsense, but better now.
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
Edited by HeavyMetal (04/22/17 07:17 AM)
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ichugwindex
Dex



Registered: 06/04/16
Posts: 4,613
Loc: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal]
#24263494 - 04/22/17 07:33 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Theres no soak teks for oats all over the place along with agar teks (the right way to go from spores before inoculating ANYTHING else) and they will really help to get your grow doing better. I get that you have been at this a while and you have a method that works for you but I encourage you to listen to some of the advice you are getting here and move your grow into the current decade. As the posters above have stated it would be much smarter to stagger out some bags/tubs than to take a step backwards and make brf bags with coir.
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
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mynakedrat
The phantom hourglass


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 4,629
Loc: Inner Astral levels
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: ichugwindex]
#24263530 - 04/22/17 08:00 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wouldn't do brf and verm in a bag.
The other day I took 7 cakes, and 4 jars grain to make a 7q tub. So, I wanted to crumble the cakes. Crumbling that many cakes took over an hr. They are hard as shit to break up, and even with plenty of time in a ziploc, it still ended up in little lumps abt the size of popcorn. I never want to do that again. End result might be OK, but the cakes turn all Grey and blue and do not look healthy while crumbling. Stick to popcorn. I did too, until I stopped, because i would have random jars get all bacterial and smell so bad. Plus, if you look at the spent substrate, the popcorn just doesn't have much surface area for myc to hold onto And there's a whole Bunch of a Kernel that doesn't even get used. I have a lot of unused kernels in the spent sub.
All brown and corny like that remind you of Anything? Humans also cannot digest corn properly, and we have unused corn in our, erm, spent sub.. If you will. So far Mushrooms like everything my body does, and I don't eat corn.
I wouldn't want my shrooms to either.
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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: mynakedrat]
#24263545 - 04/22/17 08:18 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I completely get that the agar stuff is balls to the wall awesome. Just not where I'm at currently.
Please note... I am NOT using a BRF bag to crumble spawn to bulk. I am simply colonizing and letting it grow in vitro, inside the bag.
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
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spore-ty



Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 1,028
Loc: In the bush
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal]
#24263548 - 04/22/17 08:20 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Happy your better
But if thats the case just make a shot ton of bags weekly or monthly and let em do their thing in a room I did that recently not too bad
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: mynakedrat]
#24263560 - 04/22/17 08:28 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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knock yourself out with brf and verm in bags. pf tek goes in da bag. sounds like fun. you ask 'experienced eyes' to critique. well you have a shit load of critique.
popcorn is a horrible grain choice. even if it were free i wouldnt use it. and 80c per pound is expensive as fuck.
Quote:
I will continue using grain lc's because again, I've never had issues and it works great for me.
uh. no they havent. and IMHO, when people use glcs instead of agar its a fall back. just learn agar its worth it. man up
Quote:
These were not things I was asking about. My bulk growing capabilities are fine.
bulk is easy. a 2 year old can spawn to bulk. the point is to have CLEAN SPAWN. glcs into popcorn is some shit you saw on youtube and you are defending it like its 'worked' for you. but when growing techniques 'work' for people 99% are going to want to expand.. get better.. learn more efficient ways.
Quote:
I have a fully automated Greenhouse so no monotubs are needed.
1. automation in mushcult is retarded and slightly impossible and not necessary. 2. GHs are a shit way unless you have it dialed in and you know what you are doing. and automated+gh is like a oxymoron. using popcorn and gls and NO AGAR means you dont know what you are doing. stop over complicating shit. 3. mono tubs or smaller minis are the best ways to have a hands off grow. you want automation? do monos.
people usually dont do monos because they cant pull them off. we have seen it thousands of times before. saying you dont need monos because your outdated and horrible method 'works' is some v shit.
man up. step up to the plate. rise above. stand and deliver. go raw. stand up and shout. be the holy diver.
or play with popcorn
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HeavyMetal
Old Man's Child


Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: mushboy]
#24263570 - 04/22/17 08:39 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've done monos in the past, they were alright. I like Greenhouse. 6 tubs at a time. Yes, it's dialed in. Cycle timers, Hygrometers, etc. Again, I have had no issues with it. It IS automated other than refilling the humidifier and checking the sensors.
Perhaps at some point I'll get into agar.
Let's rethink my post, if I had said Rye seed instead of popcorn would it have caused as much focus and condescending backlash?
I've explained my reasons for popcorn. The entire point of my post really could have ignored my entire bulk method.
The focal point of all of this was simply a side nonsense project of popping LC into a BRF, verm, and coir bag (to break up density) and fruiting in vitro. If this was a viable way to grow some set it and forget it bags or if it were a useless exercise.
-------------------- Heavy Me†al Forever
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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Re: Game plan for continuous grow. Experienced eyes encouraged to critique. [Re: HeavyMetal]
#24263578 - 04/22/17 08:48 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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nah, youd be getting shat for doing glcs straight into grains. whatever the grain. hence the agar talk.
especially since you thread is titled GAME PLAN FOR CONTINUOUS GROW.
and your plan is fucked. nothing wrong with brf invitro in bags. hence no one saying anything about it. its less than perfect and the 'mass' of pf is hard to colonize in large amounts. anything i ever tried with brf was in half pints. larger vessels always stalled/contamed. you could spawn cakes to coir in trays.???
if you have a 'dial in GH' just grow that brf mix or whatever in bags and fruit them inside your GH with them rolled down like a sleeve.
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