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BadBrain77
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Registered: 03/04/17
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sooooo frustrated!!
#24261931 - 04/21/17 02:05 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok have to calm down and form comprehensible sentences.......... (that's me taking deep breaths). Ok Had a mono get contaminated with green mold think it was because i had large drips from the top lid coming down on the sub. I get the drips from the side walls going inbetween the tub and the plastic bag but how do i stop the drips from the top, do you pitch it to one side? My sub was coir, rabbit manure, verm and gypsum. I know right off the bat im gonna take shit for using rabbit dookie but i had a lot on hand and read a couple threads saying most people dont like it but a few people have used it with sucess. kept the gypsum at 5 %, and diluted the poo with verm until it was fluffy, not quite as fluffy as a brf medium but pretty gluffy ( the rabbit turd was aged and outdoors uncovered for over six months) then cut that about 1 to 1 with coir. i know h poo is preferred and has the right texture right off the bat and will be using that instead. I pasteurized for an hour between 160 and 170 and used a 1 to 4 ratio of rye spawn. The sub was at proper field capacity. Was i supposed to sterilize? I did one with just coir and verm and that ones doin ok. Why does coir not support contams when its nutritive? I've read that if you have clean grain spawn and a properly pasteurizated sub that you shouldn't see any contams before the first flush. The frustration is also not really being all that new to this hobby
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk


Registered: 04/20/14
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Sounds like it was your spawn.
Did you inoculate it with a clean agar culture? Contams like trich will hide very well in spawn
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: mushpunx]
#24262759 - 04/21/17 09:45 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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what mush said. did you start from spores or a culture on agar?
a few things:
#1 calm down
#2 use the "enter" button to break up your posts into different grouped ideas, it makes it much easier for people to read and reply to all your questions, etc. walls of text are gross
#3 i was gonna suggest just doing CVG until you get the hang of it, and waiting on manure since there are so many things that can go wrong with it, whereas CVG is pretty straightforward. sounds like you already observed this
#4 coir can absolutely support contams, it is just far less prone to contams than many other substrates. this is why you will often hear people talk about how contam resistant coir is and sometimes see crazy examples of coir working despite the worst of conditions/technique. its contam resistant by comparision, not as a general rule
#5 you want pasteurization, not sterilization. spawning to bulk is not a sterile process, its done in open air. for just coir, most people dont even bother with proper pasteurization. what do you use for your pasteurization? i looooove roaster ovens, and do at least 90 mins
#6 youll do well to stop stressing over trying to convince yourself (or us) of how "experienced" you are... seriously, that is gonna cause you all kinds of problems.. an open mind is the way to approach this hobby... anyone who is experienced has seen PLENTY of contams over the years, its not a big deal, and it provides you with opportunity to learn
#7 as mentioned, you can learn a LOT more from failure than success. success doesnt tell you much at all with cubensis, since its so insanely hardy. failure on the other hand, can teach you LOTS if you are open to learning
#8 its definitely a bad idea to assume that you are doing anything right (such as field capacity), post pics and people can give you an idea. confidence in new growers is directly correlated with high failure rate, and thus burnout
best of luck
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24262770 - 04/21/17 09:51 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your spawn probably wasn't clean. And just use cvg next time. No manure.
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BadBrain77
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Registered: 03/04/17
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: mushpunx]
#24262794 - 04/21/17 10:02 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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It was a multispore sryinge on rye that had been transferred one time i don't know if thats called g2?
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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if you shot spores into grain then that was a bad move. sure, it can and has worked, but it is bad technique for sure..
because we fruit in open air (not sterile) spores are always dirty, never assume they are sterile. always germinate them on agar first and do a few transfers (agar to agar) to be sure you have a clean culture, then use that to inoc
when you said "transferred" did you mean grain to grain? pouring colonized grains into another jar? or what did you mean?
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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If you shot spores directly onto grain then it's no surprise it contaminated. Start on agar first.
Edit: he beat me to it
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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you did g2g with MS spawn, and used rabbit poo? like damn.. thats a lot of emojis at once.
dripping water from a lid does not cause contamination. it can cause issues but its not going to ruin your tub. dirty spawn will. you did g2g with highly suspect spawn and use rabbit shit.
what everyone else said . stick with coco and use clean inoculate(agar)
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: FriedEgg]
#24262812 - 04/21/17 10:10 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said: If you shot spores directly onto grain then it's no surprise it contaminated. Start on agar first.
Edit: he beat me to it
and +5d your ass in the meantime haha
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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BadBrain77
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/17
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Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24262815 - 04/21/17 10:11 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you, all great advice i definitely let my emotions get the better of me there i apologize. I'll just keep patient and away from manure for now thanks so much. Oh and does anyone have any suggestions on the dripping problem. Id take a pic but i already got rid of the bin
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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ignore it. fix your spawn first.
but post a pic. maybe your chamber sucks?.. oh you tossed it.. why?
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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i dont think the dripping was your problem. obviously, pics would help, but its probably irrelevant
if there was water pooling on the surface, that was a problem, and would mean too much misting and not enough FAE
i like to always run the fan (indirect ) after misting, to trigger evaporation and make sure there is no pooling
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24262856 - 04/21/17 10:21 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said:
Quote:
FriedEgg said: If you shot spores directly onto grain then it's no surprise it contaminated. Start on agar first.
Edit: he beat me to it
and +5d your ass in the meantime haha 
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spore-ty



Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 1,028
Loc: In the bush
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24262859 - 04/21/17 10:21 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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There all right I used to think years ago my method was fool proof if I do that now ill funk up my whole operation lmao
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BadBrain77
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/17
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Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24262862 - 04/21/17 10:23 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I didn't mist at all the tape was still on the holes i thought the non air tight lid would provide the g.e.. it was about 80 percent colinized but maybe i did screw field capacity up
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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How long did it take to get to 80%?
And what ratio of spawn to substrate did you use?
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BadBrain77
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Registered: 03/04/17
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Ill just be patient and learn agar and try to work on my sterile tech, sorry for the doushey post was just real bummed
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BadBrain77
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About 8 days and 4 to 1
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BadBrain77
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I mean 1 to 4
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 35,378
Loc: eating the cats
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thats a low spawn ratio(for actives) do 1:1 or maybe 1:2
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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Hmm a little slow but it's probably because you used a low ratio. I may be wrong but it doesn't exactly scream improper field capacity to me. Hard to tell.
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BadBrain77
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: mushboy]
#24262942 - 04/21/17 10:48 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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With that ratio what time should i be looking at for full colonization
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BadBrain77
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Registered: 03/04/17
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I got it to field capacity then pillow cased it and pasteurized it in a steamer chamber inside a larger pot like a shrimp or lobster when i came out and cooled it somehow seemed to be a litte less than capacity so i added some tap water could that do anything bad
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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1:2 ratio should be colonized in 4-5 days
Look up the bucket tek. It's a really simple way of prepping cvg.
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Edited by FriedEgg (04/22/17 12:05 AM)
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk


Registered: 04/20/14
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: FriedEgg]
#24263356 - 04/22/17 03:58 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea I think you should just use CVG next time. If you want higher nutes then just use more spawn. Every canopy I have ever grown was on coir- you won't necessarily get a better grow from a complex substrate
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BadBrain77
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: FriedEgg]
#24263476 - 04/22/17 07:20 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I saw bucket tek i think by damion but then i read evilmushes write up on proper pasteurization and though that was way to go but im at it right now tryin bucket tek but the coir i bought is very large and wont fit in the bucket so im in the process of debating whether i should cut it with a skill saw or throw it in the bath tub, don't really want to store the extra all wet.
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BadBrain77
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: mushpunx]
#24263491 - 04/22/17 07:32 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks definitely goin that route. Gameplan is one tub cvg with bucket tek and one with 90 min oven roaster bag pasteurization. Both with 1 to 2 spawn to sub ratio and classic hole pattern on the tubs. Alright off to the races thanks again
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CapnZ
Dimensional explorer



Registered: 12/22/16
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1:2 at a minimum. Yeah get the spawn clean and you probably want to consider not using horse poop anymore. I threw out my last tub I did with manure....green mold. It's all CVG for me from now on.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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Quote:
BadBrain77 said: I saw bucket tek i think by damion but then i read evilmushes write up on proper pasteurization and though that was way to go but im at it right now tryin bucket tek but the coir i bought is very large and wont fit in the bucket so im in the process of debating whether i should cut it with a skill saw or throw it in the bath tub, don't really want to store the extra all wet.
 break it up with a large knife or a screwdriver. you can weigh out (650g?) of coir and just follow the bucket tek instructions.
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CapnZ
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: FriedEgg]
#24263729 - 04/22/17 10:20 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: CapnZ]
#24263745 - 04/22/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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that one is good but the insulated bucket is not needed. i just use a regular old bucket myself
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CapnZ
Dimensional explorer



Registered: 12/22/16
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: FriedEgg]
#24263761 - 04/22/17 10:42 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FriedEgg said:
that one is good but the insulated bucket is not needed. i just use a regular old bucket myself 
To each his own. Use what works man! I like this one but everyone has a favorite.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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BadBrain77
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: CapnZ]
#24263980 - 04/22/17 12:28 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks so much for the help i really appreciate it, i had to go back out for new tubs with the 1 to 2 ratio my tubs are to big plus id rather fail small or i should say experiment small, will post some pics of the tubs tomorrow. I also am debating what to do with my spawn from the ms syringes inoculated directly onto rye, it looks so nice and white and clean but i get what everyone is saying about the 2d vs 3d viewing with contams on agar vs grain. I could have contams inside those jars and not even know they're there, what i dont get is how i can g2g them and not see the contams in the second or third generation. I also just ran out of rye and I'm trying wbs for the first time and right off the bat i see so many different opinions on soak no soak and simmer times . After skimming hollow seeds i still see an inherent problem with equal hydration on such varying sized seeds maybe with different hardnesses of hulls. I think im just gonna re-up my membership at the co-op so i can get more rye. Just didnt want to cough up the 40 bucks
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BadBrain77
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I also wanted to know what the stance is on the temps between 180 and 252. If you go over on your pasteurization temps is it as detrimental as going to low on your sterilization temps?is it all dependent on the sub and the nutrient value And what is the exact pasteurization temps anywhere from 140-180 for an hour or 160- 170 for an hour. i get the volume of material is going to mater on times because of the time its gonna take to get to the center of the tootsie pop but are there more factors that i should consider?
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: BadBrain77] 1
#24264871 - 04/22/17 07:19 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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i don't soak my grains. i've never had a need to. FYI don't rinse your grains after you simmer them. just put them in a strainer and let them dry for 30 or 60 minutes. shake out the steam and you're good to go.
pasteurization is maintaining a core temp of 140-160F for 1 hour.
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zajcob
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Re: sooooo frustrated!! [Re: FriedEgg]
#24264918 - 04/22/17 07:49 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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What is the spawn to sub ratio of Damion's bucket tek anyway, and how is it calculated? How many quarts is the coir brick and I'm guessing you include the 4 quarts of water as part of the substrate? Only the verm is clear cut, but you also have the fact that the spawn are "mycoquarts".
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