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Offline7munkee
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Is it too late to case this PE
    #24253603 - 04/18/17 05:57 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I spawned this penis envy 8 days ago and I want to case it.  I have a quart of CVG that got PC'd with my last batch of jars.





Should I use that to case this today or do I wait a week for consolidation first?

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: 7munkee]
    #24253623 - 04/18/17 06:16 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

It's not to late to case.  A casing cover can be applied between now, and when pins arrive. 

You could either case it now, place the tub back into colonizing conditions, and let the mycelium colonize the casing to about 30% before fruiting it, or case it at the time you place it into fruiting conditions. 

The only thing I'd be a little sketchy on is using a sterilized medium as a casing cover.


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24253638 - 04/18/17 06:33 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
It's not to late to case.  A casing cover can be applied between now, and when pins arrive. 

You could either case it now, place the tub back into colonizing conditions, and let the mycelium colonize the casing to about 30% before fruiting it, or case it at the time you place it into fruiting conditions. 

The only thing I'd be a little sketchy on is using a sterilized medium as a casing cover.




Alright...Ham what's your take on the serilized CVG versus pasteurized for casing? I am a fan of proper pasteurization for most casing...Curious.


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24253646 - 04/18/17 06:42 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I prefer the thermophilic line of defense that pasteurizing peat moss offers. 

Coir is pretty clean, but sterilizing organic materials kind of leaves the slate clean, and wide open for invader spores to germinate upon it.


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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24253686 - 04/18/17 07:07 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sold on the whole un pasteurized coir casing (heat treated or sterilized)... I regularly pull out sea grass, nut shells etc...Something is up with coir casing and contams and its not just "hidden" Trich on the plates...

Might give pasteurized peat a try.


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Invisiblemynakedrat
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24253693 - 04/18/17 07:12 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I'd use a thin layer of verm since it's already colonized. Something easy for that myc to grab

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: mynakedrat]
    #24253730 - 04/18/17 07:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)


I mostly case with CVG these days just because its simple and convenient.
I prep 8 tubs worth of CVG at a time (I get the big bricks cause they're only 11$ here), I just spawn my tubs and grab some more sub to case with.

But pasteurized peat is a great casing, I've been casing all my tubs lately so I might invest in a large bag


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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: Crispykoot]
    #24253736 - 04/18/17 07:52 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:
I'm not sold on the whole un pasteurized coir casing (heat treated or sterilized)... I regularly pull out sea grass, nut shells etc...Something is up with coir casing and contams and its not just "hidden" Trich on the plates...

Might give pasteurized peat a try.



That's smart.  Buying into the only cause of contamination to the mushroom culture being dirty spawn is dogma.

Another cool trick I like to use on top of utilizing the thermophilic microbes that's contained in peat moss (and horse manure as well) is to add about 2-3% by volume of agricultural hydrated lime to the casing mix.  Hydrated lime spikes the PH of the casing up to about 12-14 creating an environment in which virtually nothing can germinate upon, but you have to pasteurize it right, or it will get contaminated.  The mushroom mycelium doesn't have a problem with the lime either. 

The specie of mushroom being fruited determines what source I use for the lime spike, meaning, if a specie doesn't take that long to fruit once introduced into fruiting conditions then the powder lime will be fine, but if I know the specie being grown prefers to take it's time to fruit, then crushed oyster shells will be used as the lime source.  The powder works fast, but only for a short period of time.  Like 2 weeks.  The oyster shells hold the PH high for a lot longer. 

Once mold germinates it's over for mushroom mycelium.  This is due to the way mold mycelium expands/colonized.  Mold mycelium germinates, and expands twice as fast as cubensis mycelium.  Mold mycelium grows out like branches of a tree doubling in size.  At the end of each branch arm is a spore depository that drops 8-12 spores everytime a branch is produced.


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Offline7munkee
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24253794 - 04/18/17 08:26 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I have half a brick of coir left, maybe I'll make a small batch of coir/verm and top it tonight.  Or would you go straight verm as mynakedrat suggests?

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: 7munkee]
    #24253804 - 04/18/17 08:33 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Straight vermiculite will work also.  As an added measure to sanitization, you can place the vermiculite on a cookie sheet, and bake it in the oven at 350F for about a half an hour.  Of coarse, don't apply the vermiculite to the substrate without letting it cool first.


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Invisiblemynakedrat
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24253863 - 04/18/17 08:57 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

That's what I thought too. Just a dab'll do ya

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Offline7munkee
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24253867 - 04/18/17 09:00 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Then that is what I will do. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24254072 - 04/18/17 10:20 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
Coir is pretty clean, but sterilizing organic materials kind of leaves the slate clean, and wide open for invader spores to germinate upon it.




ive been exclusively sterilizing my coco for months now. so are we assuming the 'organic materials' in coco are alive? since its from a tree? this is confusing to me.

could this be explained more?

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: mushboy]
    #24254107 - 04/18/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Nah, organic simply means "derived from living matter".  Organic materials harbor micro life.  Coir is the exception though due to it being processed at 700F to get it into brick form.

I'm not saying that sterilizing bulk substrate materials, then spawning to a bulk substrate is a deal breaker, because it works.  What I am saying is that pasteurization is superior to sterilizing bulk substrate, and casing materials when spawning to bulk due to the thermophilic line of defense left behind during the pasteurization of said materials.  Now if you plan on sterilizing bulk substrate materials in jars, or bags, and use the bag, or jar as a fruiting chamber, then sterilize the bulk substrate materials, and inoculate them as you would in a lab set up. 

When organic matter is sterilized, it removes the beneficial microbes, as well, thus leaving a like "clean slate" for any old spore to land upon, and begin to germinate.


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Edited by hamloaf (04/18/17 10:48 AM)

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24254151 - 04/18/17 10:51 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

so your argument is coco has microbes? i dont know either way so i am digging what you are saying.

but i used really old sterilized coco that just sits around. it never gets weird. it always dries out
and then i have been rehydrating it with tap water.



and the spawn was iffy. so it should have been a shit show? and coco has already been sterilized anyway.

pasteurization is superior if we have something to preserve. but i hear your side of it and i want to hear every angle so thank you.

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: mushboy]
    #24254166 - 04/18/17 11:00 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Ah, it's no problem man.  I love to rap about the subject at hand.

Well, in our case, coir bricks are the exception due to the amount of heat applied to them for processing, and packing, so the bricks come to us pretty much already sterilized, but, if one were to be retting coco coir on thier own from coconuts grown in your garden (shall we say), then those materials would be alive with microbes.

If you hydrate coir, then spread it out on a tarp, or something, and let it sit for a few weeks the coir will refortify with micro life, and pasteurization would be required.


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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24254182 - 04/18/17 11:09 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

but would you want to keep that micro life? are those microbes worth saving??

honestly that sounds like a really fun experiment and i plan on doing it soon.:thumbup:

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: mushboy]
    #24254192 - 04/18/17 11:15 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

The thermophilic microbes are what is worth preserving.  Thermophilic microbes are predatory, and feed off invader spores, and microbes.  Thermophilic microbes can withstand (some of them even thrive in) high heat applications such as pasteurization while our invader spores are killed off.


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Re: Is it too late to case this PE [Re: hamloaf]
    #24254221 - 04/18/17 11:27 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

:takingnotes:

so i have some extra prepped cvg that i pc'ed.. when its a dry spell ill put some on a tarp outside for a few weeks.

ill use some to just hydrate and spawn
some to past and spawn
some to PC and spawn
and some to just lay out and see what happens.

thanks OP for letting this derailment go unhindered. :congrats:

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