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InvisibleTravy
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Cloning pin vs mature fruit
    #24241795 - 04/13/17 09:39 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I just started working with clones, but would like to know what everyone does. The clones I have taken came from pins from nice clusters, and everything is looking good however they seem as though they may be smaller then usual. I keep everything the same in all my tubs so I know its not another factor.

So my question is that wouldn't it be better to let the fruit mature a bit more (but before the veil breaks) to clone?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of both? Aside from mycelium being more vigorous in pins.

Like would a nice big mature fruit(clone) in a cluster fruit better then if the same fruit(clone) was plucked as a pin?

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24241984 - 04/13/17 10:43 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

IMO, it is better to let the fruit mature out, that way you know how well it really produces. Now if you get a agar plate that pins, throw that pin to agar, as that culture loves to fruit, and is worth testing.


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24242024 - 04/13/17 10:57 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I've tried to get agar plates to pin, but they always seem to dry out before they pin.

I will probably let them mature this next time around. Just seeing what everyone else thinks about it

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24242032 - 04/13/17 10:59 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I got burned with a Costa Rica culture that was plucked as a pin on a tray. SO now I want to wait and wee what the fruits look like closer to harvest. They did pin like a mother fucker, but small as fuck and slow growing.


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24242049 - 04/13/17 11:04 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Man it seems like ill be going through that same problem. Great pinset w/ tiny shrooms.

How has your results been with waiting till maturing vs pins? I did 3 pin clones and 2 seem to sorta suck so far (waiting on the 3rd)... if you did 3 mature clones, would you have found at least one that was ideal?

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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy] * 1
    #24242070 - 04/13/17 11:11 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I have a question. I often see people saying to clone these big massive 100g fruits etc, yet I've never see a. Tub full of 100g fruits....

What's up with that?


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Moabfighter]
    #24242078 - 04/13/17 11:16 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

........ It has been known that 2nd flushes produce massive fruits.... maybe there is just so much that a ~60 qt CVG monotub can produce on the first flush?

That is so true tho ha.... hmmm

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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Moabfighter]
    #24242085 - 04/13/17 11:20 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moabfighter said:
I have a question. I often see people saying to clone these big massive 100g fruits etc, yet I've never see a. Tub full of 100g fruits....

What's up with that?





took a clone from this guy:


here are a few tubs i've grown from this clone:


Growing conditions effect mushroom size a lot...dialing in your whole house or dialing in your tub to your house is where you can best effect the yield and fruit sizes.

I also recommend cloning from a mature fruit.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24242090 - 04/13/17 11:22 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Well a mushroom is actually made up of multiple "strains", I think that's the correct term. So there is still a great deal of varying genetics in that shroom. You take a clone and slowly separate it out and eventually work your way to a monoculture.

I think I will be looking for aggressive growth, and good clusters of a medium fruit, like 4-6 inches. If I get a big 1st flush monster, then I will clone it. I was once advised not to take clones of anything but 1st flush, for best chance at good genetics.


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Invisiblemynakedrat
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mycologist217]
    #24242092 - 04/13/17 11:23 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

those tubs. whoa

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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mycologist217]
    #24242095 - 04/13/17 11:24 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Wow! Thanks man. That just further confirmed the reason to wait until the fruit is matured. Your tubs look awesome bro!

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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24242101 - 04/13/17 11:26 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadHatter420 said:
Well a mushroom is actually made up of multiple "strains", I think that's the correct term. So there is still a great deal of varying genetics in that shroom. You take a clone and slowly separate it out and eventually work your way to a monoculture.

I think I will be looking for aggressive growth, and good clusters of a medium fruit, like 4-6 inches. If I get a big 1st flush monster, then I will clone it. I was once advised not to take clones of anything but 1st flush, for best chance at good genetics.





you are correct...when you start a grow from MS inoculation by the time fruiting occurs an event called Horizontal Gene Transfer happens between the "1000s" of different strains that might have germinated to narrow it down to just a "few" fruiting strains...and again individual fruits will have different strains present.

By that logic also...Horizontal Gene Transfer occurs in clone inoculated colonies also so that certain genes might bulk up in certain regions of the colony and thus promote cloned growth that looks completely different from the parent clone...growing conditions will effect this more...

clones can be reliable for fruiting potential and potency no question though.


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mycologist217]
    #24242112 - 04/13/17 11:31 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Myco... Does it matter how vigorous the strain looks on agar/grains coming from a great fruit like the one you posted? Could it still produce great results being slow to colonize?

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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24242120 - 04/13/17 11:35 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

colonization time is something you can isolate for if you have the will.

This clone (i call it PE M217-a) is a slow colonizer on grain, but once grain is spawned to a tub it colonizes monotubs in just a few days...

if you are interested in growing tubs like this please refer to my several grow logs found here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/dosearch.php?where=body&tosearch=main&uid=295581&limit=25&sort=v&way=d

Links 2,5,&,6 should give you all the information you need.


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InvisibleMoabfighter
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24242124 - 04/13/17 11:37 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I'd also like to know how to narrow down what I'm doing vs just going by what looks pretty to my eye.


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mycologist217]
    #24242126 - 04/13/17 11:38 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

LOL Jackpot of knowledge!


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Moabfighter]
    #24242135 - 04/13/17 11:43 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moabfighter said:
I'd also like to know how to narrow down what I'm doing vs just going by what looks pretty to my eye.




well there are lots of questions you have to ask yourself...what do you want? potency? bounty? fast growth? all of it?

I've done most of my growing with Penis Envy because it is outright more potent than other cubensis. I cloned my chosen fruit because it was large, and in a cluster of dozens of mushrooms in a full canopy tub...

the result was a nasty potent clone...2grams and you can't see the real world, that puts out canopy pinsets every time...colonizes fairly slow until spawning...when it goes faster

there are so many vectors...the first and foremost is ensuring clean spawn...that is the most important part of any grow...clean spawn...

but if you want to take lots of clones and test them for potential...the easiest way to do it is via the PF Tek..make a LC of each clone and test on an individual (or small batch) of PF Tek cakes...you could also use bottle teks, or just go hole hog and test each clone in a monotub...

there is no better way to start than doing what you are doing and picking the fruit that looks best to you to clone...

but growing mushrooms well is a skill...you can get better at it...a good mushroom grower should understand well the conditions it takes a grow to produce well...monotubs make understanding these conditions very easy...and straight forward to learn.


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Mycologist217 is a fictitious entity that uses images supplied by Google to mask his/her inability to develop normal social habits.

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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mycologist217]
    #24242568 - 04/14/17 05:04 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)




Here's an example of a clone test that didn't go favorably. You're gunna have to test all your clones anyways whether its from pin or mature fruit.
And definitely have to eat some to test potency, some of my best yielding clones have only been so so potency wise, and that's disappointing but good to know before you do a big run.

Personally , I tend to clone more from mature fruits unless it's a pin from agar

I also prefer to clone from clusters, the cluster in this photo is a good candidate


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: mushpunx]
    #24242956 - 04/14/17 08:48 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Clusters FTW. I've had many a big fruit clones (even massive fruits in a cluster) just give me shitty af genetics. Lots of large single fruits across the surface, with a relatively low yield. Cloning the 2nd-3rd largest mushroom in a large cluster has been my go-to ever since.


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mad Season]
    #24242983 - 04/14/17 08:59 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Here is the clone that I am currently working with. Notice the few shrooms in which the cap is already starting to open up. I have hopes that the rest will be larger, but I do not think that'll be the case.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mad Season]
    #24243393 - 04/14/17 11:58 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Clusters FTW. I've had many a big fruit clones (even massive fruits in a cluster) just give me shitty af genetics. Lots of large single fruits across the surface, with a relatively low yield. Cloning the 2nd-3rd largest mushroom in a large cluster has been my go-to ever since.





FTW


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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24243425 - 04/14/17 12:13 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Travy said:
Here is the clone that I am currently working with. Notice the few shrooms in which the cap is already starting to open up. I have hopes that the rest will be larger, but I do not think that'll be the case.






I have had some like that, they ended up doubling in height, from 1.5 inch to 3 inch at least.


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24250255 - 04/16/17 09:35 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Here is an update. Still really tiny, but it was a good canopy.

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InvisibleTheMadHatter420
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24250390 - 04/16/17 10:45 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

That doesn't look to bad, how thick was your substrate and what would you say avg size was?


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: TheMadHatter420]
    #24251150 - 04/17/17 09:03 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

That near full canopy only yielded about 2 1/2 dry. I get more out of ms lol. Honestly I don't measure the sub.. Maybe 5-6 inches if I had to guess. I always use the same size tubs, 1 brick coir, 2 quarts verm, handful gypsum, 5 quarts water, and same setup for all tubs. The only thing that changes is the spawn I use.

They did however have meaty stems which I like, and they bruised an insanely amount of blue while being harvested

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24251156 - 04/17/17 09:05 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

You should try bottom watering when you get a nice pinset


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mad Season]
    #24251180 - 04/17/17 09:13 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Any good updated links on bottom watering? Never done it or heard of it so wouldn't know what is updated and what's outdated

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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24251210 - 04/17/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24251211 - 04/17/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Ha! Exact same thing happened to me last month I had a canopy of short fruits , really thick but it only put up 3oz :facepalm: :lol:


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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: mushpunx]
    #24252344 - 04/17/17 06:19 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

How often do you get these tiny full canopy shrooms? It's sorta annoying that it happened on my first try lol

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InvisibleTravy
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Mad Season]
    #24280085 - 04/28/17 10:35 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
You should try bottom watering when you get a nice pinset




Should I throw that clone away, or give it another test run doing the bottom watering? Do you think it makes THAT big of a difference?

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InvisibleStuey1
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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24280279 - 04/28/17 11:59 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

For years I have always cloned from larger fruits within clusters and it has always gave me pretty good results. Now I may have 3-4 different samples per fruit by the time I'm done transferring them out a handful of times. But just recently I took about a dozen pins and cloned them. I have 22 different samples that are still in a spawn run but I too had to see for myself if there are any benefits to this. RR talks very highly of cloning from pins in his notes  due to the cell division.


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Re: Cloning pin vs mature fruit [Re: Travy]
    #24280376 - 04/29/17 01:09 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

travy said:
Should I throw that clone away, or give it another test run doing the bottom watering? Do you think it makes THAT big of a difference?




yes. bottom watering can make or break certain flushes. ive seen dramatic results from bottom watering within 12hrs...ish

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