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Redneck1986
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B+ Pinned, then stopped
#24239357 - 04/13/17 04:50 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I know there are numerous posts about pins stopping their growth and I've attempted to search everything in this forum that I can, and even other forums. I've followed some bad advice, and some very good advice. I'm looking for more good advice please. Allow me to provide a time line of events.
Week 0 - 6 jars inoculated with B+ 2 weeks later - 4 jars fully colonized. I waited 3-4 days, then birthed them. I dunked them but did not roll them. then placed in the fruiting chamber. 1.5 weeks later - 2 other jars are fully colonized and pinning in the jar. I birthed them, dunked, and did not roll them. (this is optional from what I understand around the forum) (all cake dunks were approximately 14 hours)
during this 1.5 week period, other pins formed on the 2 of the first 4 cakes.
(this is bad advice I realize now) <-- I cut a cake in half just to see what the middle looks like and if I can tell if it's fully colonized in the center... bad Idea. I learned something.
Originally, I had my fruiting chamber on a shelf in my closet with a heater in the room to raise temp, and a humidifier to keep the RH% at 60% outside the chamber. Temps during fruiting ranged from 70-75 degrees F. Humidity is 99%. I misted 3-4 times a day to start, then backed off to only twice a day because I thought I was misting to much. By backing off on the misting, I assume it helped the mushies pin in the closet.
I then read from RR that closets are the worst. I took them out 3 days ago from the closet and set them in an open room for FAE.
It appears that some of the pins I see, are getting fatter at their base over the last 2 days but some have appeared to stop. Am I doing something wrong? Is this bruising on my cakes bad for pinning?
I will admit, I have picked my cakes up and moved them around some, they have even fell over in the fruiting chamber while I was relocating the chamber. The cakes when picked up seem somewhat heavy but I can't tell really as they all feel the same lol. Can someone tell me if I am on track? what problems I'm experiencing if any? Thank you for any help that you can give me.
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Redneck1986
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I would also like to add, when I moved my fruiting chamber, I put it in a large living room. I reestablished my humidifier close by the terrarium in the room but not to close as to blow air on to the terrarium itself. I then put another fan across the room for air circulation. My the file posted, the conditions are right, and any misting that I do, dries up within 30 minutes or so.
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CapnZ
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Post pics of your fruiting chamber and cakes so we can see what's going on.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: CapnZ]
#24239431 - 04/13/17 06:33 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Look at the file I uploaded in OP? but anyway, I figured out how to post it into the text post.
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CapnZ
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Did not see any pics in the OP. Anyway I see a number of issues with your FC.
1). It doesn't look like a proper SGFC. Do you have holes on all 6 sides in a 2" grid pattern?
2). It's sitting on carpet. That's a problem. No airflow underneath.
3). Your foil is WAY too big. Needs to be about the same size as the jar lid your cakes were in.
So - problem is you have a lot of issues that are not creating the proper micro climate for fruiting. You need to do a bunch more research on how to do this.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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dhype773
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Just from what I've researched for my own first go, I can tell you a couple things I see. It doesn't look like you used a 2" grid pattern. Those cakes are all jumbled and toppled over. You also need to trim up that tin foil to exactly the diameter of the cakes. The evaporation needs to take place right against the cakes themselves. Also, if you followed a specific tek, don't mix and match. Choose your tek, and follow to the T! I assume you have a lid for that SGFC right? And that the holes are on all six sides?
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CapnZ
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: dhype773]
#24239455 - 04/13/17 06:46 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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dhype773
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: CapnZ]
#24239459 - 04/13/17 06:48 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
CapnZ said: Here is a good place to start:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23781179
Read, learn, try again.
 That's good advice. Good luck!
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: dhype773]
#24239473 - 04/13/17 06:58 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Capnz,
1. Yes. Holes on all 6 sides. 2. Its not sitting on carpet. It's just where I took the picture. I have it elevated about 4-5" off a table. 3. I'll remove some of the foil.
I'll fix these... but anything else? More holes in fruiting chamber?
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Redneck1986
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Oops, also I have a lid for my FC. the two laying over is actually, 2 halves which was a bad move on my part.
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Explicitdetail
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Did you dunk? That bruising makes me think they're dry
-------------------- "Problems that remain persistently insoluble should always be suspected as questions asked in the wrong way."

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Redneck1986
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They feel heavy to me but it may not be. I did dunk all the cakes when they were birthed for 13-14 hours. I have pins forming around the base of the aluminum foil on some. The bluing on the ones laying over is from my hard grip when I cut it in half.
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CapnZ
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The holes should be 1/4" holes in a 2" grid pattern on all 6 sides. Even the bottom - correct? Get as close to this as possible. Definitely trim the foil way back. You need evaporation occurring right at your cakes. How much perlite (how deep) do you have in the bottom, and did you rinse and hydrate it well before placing it in your FC?
Yep good on the spacing for the FC. You need airflow underneath to create the passive air movement that pulls humidity into the chamber.
Keep the lid on except when checking the cakes. Should be right around 70 F where you keep the FC. Mist when needed to maintain moisture, moist but not wet, no standing water. You may have to do this a bit more as you chose not to roll in verm. Next time do the dunk AND roll. The verm helps to create that microclimate on the cake layer that leads to fruiting.
Also hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like some of those cakes are not fully colonized? Did you let them consolidate before birthing? Good idea with cakes. If they are not fully colonized when birthed, they are going to try and do it anyway, which will slow down fruiting.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: CapnZ]
#24239503 - 04/13/17 07:22 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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They are not 1/4 inch hole, just a bunch of holes made with a knife cause I lack a drill... I got holes all over and on the bottom. I'll have to get a drill and fix that as well I guess.
I've got about 5-6 inches. I rinsed and hydrated the perlite before I put it in the chamber.
I do keep the lid on at all times except when checking on them and misting.
Which cakes are you referring to far as their not fully colonized? The two standing up with verm showing on top? That's the filter layer that stuck to the cakes if that's what your getting at. Those two, were the last 2 that I birthed.
I'll fix all this stuff mentioned in these posts but I'm discouraged at the moment about the whole situation with them not doing very well
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Redneck1986
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any other suggestions from anyone else? Any TC recommendations?
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CapnZ
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Yeah I get that those have the dry verm filter layer on them. Not talking about that. Look at the sides of almost all of them. I see BRF sub where it should be almost solid white mycelium.
Don't get discouraged. We all have failures. It's how you learn. You can do this. Review every step of your technique and yes get a drill.
Maybe it's the pic but I don't see much if any pinning.
You say in the OP that you had jars fully colonized from MS in 2 weeks. That sounds AWFULLY fast for BRF cakes from MS. I'd expect that to be more like 4 weeks. Which makes me think you may have rushed birthing....
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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mynakedrat
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: CapnZ]
#24239599 - 04/13/17 07:59 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Those need a good verm layer too. Did you follow a tek?
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: mynakedrat]
#24239652 - 04/13/17 08:22 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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well Crap. I thought they were fully colonize? They turned all white but maybe not. I do have pins but they are harder to see because they are small and around the base of the sub. Id have to take close up pics of them to show you but that's not necessarily what we are discussing at the moment the one on top right has pins showing that you can actually see in the photo....
What it sounds like is that the last two cakes I birthed, are probably my best bet at getting anything this time around because they stayed in the jars longer. (3.5 weeks totalish)
So, correct the concerns here that were identified, then just wait on the rest I guess. I'll wait on future jars a little longer before birthing.
When I birthed the cakes, I thought they were fully colonized and had waited for the right amount of time to pass by, I guess not. jars were very rizomorphic (Long stringy arms reaching out every where correct?) So I should wait next time until there is not brown rice flour or verm showing in my jars before birthing? Solid white is what I will look for the next time around. So I guess the mistake I made was that I saw the rizos running all over the sub and thought they were fully colonized, but wasn't. I should wait for white fluffy mycelium as you stated.
is any of this salvageable?
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CapnZ
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Sure they may still fruit. Nothing to lose, give it a shot. Keep an eye on the moisture content / level and mist when needed. If you have more spores and jars go ahead and get more started now. Doesn't look like you had contam issues so that's good. Make sure you properly sterilize / PC your brf jars, I would get another sterilite tote, borrow a drill, and start over on your SGFC for the next round. You have a lot of the right ideas going, just need to organize.
Next jars, once the sides an bottom are completely white, let them sit 5-7 more days to consolidate. Then dunk AND roll.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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dhype773
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: CapnZ]
#24239725 - 04/13/17 08:51 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: dhype773]
#24239778 - 04/13/17 09:14 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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In the link above, it shows about how my jars looked when I birthed them... I should probably wait even longer next time. Thanks for the information. I got work to do!!! I Will succeed one day hehe. I'll just have to be more patient and when I think they are ready for birth, I'll wait. Then when I think their ready for birth, I'll wait some more. lol.
Should I pick the pins I got and then re dunk?
I have pretty good sterile technique and am a clean freak around my house anyway so I am not worried about the contam part to much.
Thank you all for offering the knowledge and advice. It has been well received and will help me on my next one. it's already started
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CapnZ
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If the heads of your pins have turned black / very dark and have not grown in a few days they probably aborted. You can still pick and eat them.
If your current cakes look / feel dry then sure, pick the aborts off and this time dunk AND roll them. Can't hurt at this point. Try different things, keep what works.
-------------------- Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before...
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: CapnZ]
#24242582 - 04/14/17 05:21 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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So I have another question that's related to my post...
We have definitely determined I birthed my cakes early. I've attempted to research this a bit more and to no avail, come up confused about conflicted info....
Mycelium. This is not rizomorphic fingers correct? It appears I have just rizomorphic growth and no mycelium on my cakes or do I? Mycelium is white whispy cloud looking stuff that's realitively thick? I don't think I have a whole bunch on the cakes of this stuff.
When do I start misting these cakes? Do I start immediately? Do I start after pinning? I read conflicted information about not to mist during primordia stages but mist during pinning stages and then I've read RR stating it doesn't matter what stage to mist in?
In the order of growth, does it happen like this: Rizomorphic fingers > Mycelium > Primordia > Knots > Pins. Am I wrong?
Which stage do I begin misting?
To elaborate on the problems I've had so far in the thread, I have corrected the following.
1. Purchased new terrarium with clear lid, will put holes in it to night 2" spaces with 1/4inch holes. 2. I have re-dunked my cakes last night. Currently still in the fridge until I get the terrarium set back up tonight. will be 24 hours tonight. (I picked the aborts off prior to dunking again) 3. I have removed much of the aluminum foil around the cakes.
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dhype773
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Okay, if you have white anything it's either mycelium or a contam. I don't know what you are thinking "rhizomorphic fingers" are, but they are mycelium. Just look up some pictures of colonized cakes and of cube mycelium on agar. The info is on this site, and as far as those topics, the understanding is not conflicted at all. Just pick a tek, and follow it exactly.
Keep It Simple
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: dhype773]
#24245620 - 04/15/17 04:49 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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So I rebuilt a SGFC and removed foil. I also redunked my cakes after picking pins off. To my surprise, during the dunk, I had more pins come out. now my cakes have very small clusters of pins. don't know if they show much in the photos.
I'm missing some perlite which I have ordered. Other than that, anyone see anything else that I'm doing incorrectly? I'm misting three times a day, morning, lunch, and night.
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dhype773
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That foil still needs to be trimmed. You could even use the flat piece of the jar lid, but the foil can't extend past the edge of the cake.
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: dhype773]
#24246324 - 04/15/17 12:02 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why are the pins so small? I don't get it? They look like match sticks coming out of the cakes. Do they get wider as they grow? and is there a reason why the pins are sporadically placed?
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dhype773
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Quote:
Redneck1986 said: Why are the pins so small? I don't get it? They look like match sticks coming out of the cakes. Do they get wider as they grow? and is there a reason why the pins are sporadically placed?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3395501#3395501
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Redneck1986
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So several days later, after dunking and rebuilding the terrarium to spec, these cakes went from blue and pretty close back to white. Now there are pins and good sized hyphal knots on all of them. Just wanted to say thanks for the tips, links, etc. I have learned a ton over the last few days watching and fixing stuff. I think this grow was saved by the good graces of shroomery personnel. Thanks a lot everyone.
I plan to dunk and then roll after my first flush is picked off just to be with in the tek specs. This way is the only way that makes any sense at this point.
In the future, I'll wait for my jars to colonize, dunk for 24hrs and then roll, place in a spec SGFC, and wait Now I think I need to work on getting a better yield out of my cakes. ( I know someone is going to tell me about grain but I'm not wanting that many mushrooms. I just wanna stick with cakes).
I should be harvesting in about 7 days?
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Redneck1986
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Just an update of all the corrections I made now I got 2 big mushies growing up to be adults. Also got other small pins being pushed out as well... Hard to see the pins in the photo but I do have them.
I've had to dunk, then wait, dunk then wait, and then dunked again to rehydrate the cakes... This process just goes to show you how birthing early effects the hydration of your cakes and how much extra time and energy that you have to utilize to get your project back running properly if you make grave mistakes early. This project is still not running great but it is producing and headed in the right direction.
Another note, I dunked my cakes each time with pins and mushies. No damage was done to any of them. They survived each time I dunked. I've also knocked up another 10 jars of B+ to start over and see if I can stream line this process for better
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mynakedrat
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Due, that's persistence. Dunking is no joke!
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Redneck1986
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Re: B+ Pinned, then stopped [Re: mynakedrat]
#24257231 - 04/19/17 12:41 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wrote this early this morning half a sleep but I did wait 3-4 days between dunks. The reason why I had to re-dunk so much, is that 1, I birthed early and 2, I did not dunk then roll, I only dunked. This allowed them to dry out faster than we needed. Also 3, I did not have enough perlite either for proper humidification of the chamber. Finally when I got my vermiculite, I rolled them. Now they are growing like crazy. I checked on them 6 hours later and I got multiple pins about the size of my fingers, I think these are no longer pins but actual shrooms
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mynakedrat
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Right on!
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