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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24208027 - 03/31/17 12:12 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Obviously that depends on the method. Oats and rye are less expensive for me but are more troublesome in the methods of my choice, and are ultimately less worth it, since I have to case them as well unlike grass seed (I've gotten to doing more and more of my pods and less of what people call v tek, with the short containers). Grass seed is still pretty damn affordable for me too.
What OP is doing here, he might as well have had some denser, cheaper grain, since he's putting them in a chamber with a casing. I still use grass seed for this sometimes but it's totally for the faster cycle it affords.
Yeah you definitely have to count bulk substrates too when you use them, of course. That's actually much of why I don't. It only took a few months of watering grains before it became apparent bulk subs hadn't been improving things for me enough to warrant their cost, preparation, extra inoc, massive storage and FC space, and disposal; when measuring by yield-per-grain I saw negligible increases or maybe none at all.
Given, that involved letting my subs flush as long as they would, but it's always so worth it to me especially when it's all so easy this way
Anyways I still use rye and sawdust for shiitake
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet] 2
#24208084 - 03/31/17 12:36 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think methods where the colony remains unbroken is very forgiving of bacteria. I have inoculated cakes, bottles, grains (cased later of course) with bacterial liquid media and all colonized and flushed multiple times.
But I am mostly interested in the first flush for most of my projects. I think my bathtub grow was the first I let get through 3 in ages.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24208115 - 03/31/17 12:48 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe that's the case with bacterial inoculant, I wouldn't know, never tried... mostly just never get much bacterial stuff, nor do I often use liquid for Cubensis other than putting sterile water on poms to shake around and pour away. In my experiments finding how low I could get my sterilization times with grass seed in plastic pints I did not find any significant bacteria remaining within the grains to be very forgiving at all. I'd get surface colonization, but never true nice thick growth, and no fruits.
There's definitely something satisfying about getting a massive flush and being done with it. I just prefer running things out to efficiency, and my rice cakes stay healthy and flushing soooooo loooong.
Mind sharing a link to that grow? Sounds cool!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24208134 - 03/31/17 12:55 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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for 3 tubs
16 jars of oats is like $1.92 or less worth of grain at 0.25 cents a pound. 3 bricks of coir is 6.99 no gypsum and no vermiculite used one tub gets an extra quart of spawn
I can do 3 bricks of coir at the same time. just have to boil 12-13 quarts of water put in bucket wait over night use the next day, nearly 0 work or effort for substrate prep.
oat prep is the same complexity as preparing ramen noodles,
so I'm at 9 dollars in materials for 1 pound of dry mushrooms first flush. and working for only 15-30 minutes at a crack a few times a week.
let's just over estimate the costs and call it 20 dollars in materials because you know electricity, some 70% iso got sprayed, a few paper towels used, etc...
all my methods have been centered around that idea of doing less work, as little maintenance as possible, and buying as little shit as possible. Granted I already have jars and lids and a PC etc...
It's a little hard to get a comprehensive cost analysis because you have to factor in your time and things like electric/gas.
I spent more money making 12 pf cakes and getting a little under 2 ounces dry from multiple flushes.
what most people say they want is less work, less money spent, more mushrooms made. so when someone asks for a critique of their methods It's hard to say "looks good" when you're spending at least twice what I do and doing more work, and getting less.
Here's pasty's bath tub
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23957271
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24208162 - 03/31/17 01:02 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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The tub was fun but I will nail it next time. Learned a lot with that grow though. But it won't make it to the favorite grow logs link. My zaps are still my favorite grow for this year.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24208238 - 03/31/17 01:25 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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You still did pretty good! That second flush looks glorious, still.
Doing some math backwards, based on 1 lb final dry yield (454g) from containers of 75g rice each (before hydration) getting 20g dry yield each (still under 300%BE) with one of my tested cultures, it would take 22-23 of my containers to yield that. At 6 containers per pound of rice, it would take me less than 4 pounds of rice, putting my cost at under 3 dollars.
Given of course that I already own the containers which are the only other material required besides a small bit of microwave-prepared potting soil. And also given that I'm letting those containers flush out for quite a bit longer than growers like you will. But when they don't even require a fruiting chamber, and all they take is a bit of water and harvesting, may it suffice to say that doesn't bother me one bit.
By the way, even using a fruiting chamber with pint containers lining the bottom, that would still only take about ... 2 tubs.
 Or less, depending on their size That one had like 16 and wasn't even full.
 I think these big ones hold 19. So almost the whole one-pound grow, by those above numbers.
And meanwhile I'm cycling out the finished or contaminated ones, never having to wait for the fruiting chamber's contents to colonize.
It's just all a part of one's own methodology. Mine certainly works fantastically for me, with nothing ordered online, and nothing purchased that I wouldn't be throwing in my grocery cart anyway. Frankly I never even notice myself spend the money on it, now that I own a stock of containers and my cooker.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (03/31/17 01:32 PM)
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Ziran
The Hero of Time




Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 6,034
Loc: Temple of Time
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
#24208628 - 03/31/17 04:00 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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holy hell. That song worked wonders. lol
everyone got busy.
-------------------- Song Of Healing
Updated Pf Tek Guide
Ziran's Teks
AMU Q&A Thread
The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.

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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Ziran]
#24208683 - 03/31/17 04:28 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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If I let a coir tub go multiple flushes it usual works out to be over 3oz per quart of spawn used but the mushrooms are too big. No one wants to eat part of one mushroom.
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Pipefitter537
You're Not Yelping



Registered: 11/25/16
Posts: 715
Loc: SodoSopa
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24208808 - 03/31/17 05:08 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: If I let a coir tub go multiple flushes it usual works out to be over 3oz per quart of spawn used but the mushrooms are too big. No one wants to eat part of one mushroom.
I won't mind as long as I can finish the whole thing
-------------------- "You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"-Bullet Tooth Tony
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Pipefitter537]
#24208829 - 03/31/17 05:17 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ones that are 5-10 grams dry are usually frowned on by most except the one that grew em
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24210754 - 04/01/17 12:26 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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lol thats the truth... ive never even shown any of my dried monsters (like that 295g "tiny dick" ) to people, theres no way theyd believe its a cube weighing around an ounce dry hahah....
i have a whole set of cultures where my goal was to produce personal bests for largest fruits and largest yield per amount of spawn, a few lines really excel at that task and basically get as big as youll let them
i had a lot of fun growing monsters, and i doubt i will get another tub over 3.5kg in a single flush without staying on task
for current projects im mainly focusing on experimental stuff and exotics (i like to challenge myself )
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"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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lovelaughlibs
Dopamine Slave



Registered: 10/14/15
Posts: 1,811
Loc: England
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24210970 - 04/01/17 01:57 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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As an update they're now colonising the CVG. I dunno if that's good or bad but at least there's no trich yet.
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24211236 - 04/01/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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definitely good that your myc is active, and not green 
as you figured out, CVG is a bulk substrate, not an ideal casing mix. but that doesnt mean it wont work, depending on what you are trying to do
the point of a casing layer is to provide an ideal microclimate for the formation of pins, not to be fully colonized (which is the goal with a bulk substrate). so if it gets fully colonized, its kinda like you didnt use a casing layer at all, just another layer of bulk substrate
coir is actually quite good at providing said microclimate, but it often doesnt last long because it gets colonized and then acidifies. 50/50+ gives a bit of a buffer. Of course, you dont HAVE to ph adjust 50/50, or anything else, but there is sound reasoning behind why people do
so where coir (or CVG) is likely to fully colonize, 50/50+ is a little less likely to fully colonize (though really aggressive myc can certainly do it), and more likely to hang around long enough to provide that microclimate the pins want.
which is exactly what pasty was saying (really hit the nail on the head)
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Not here to take sides just wanted to say that I like coir casing and while sometimes it does get overrun, I have had peat overrun just as often.
although i dont think there are sides to take, theres the people discussing mush cult and comparing the pros and cons of casing with coir vs 50/50+, and then theres the person talking about their feelings and how everyone is biased against them i dont even see where theres a disagreement, even V said it wasnt ideal when i first brought it up, then emotions took over
thats what happens when people get desperate for a cartoon bad guy... they get emotional and mischaracterize and misunderstand basic points.... i think its fairly clear that no one ever said you couldnt case with coir
can you post some pics of how they are currently? like V said, you definitely want to get all that uncolonized grain off, thats asking for problems...
i havent worked much with bottles yet, but i love the pics they make for they will definitely figure prominently into some of my current and future projects though (more exotics and experimental stuff, less bulk)
Also, bear in mind, most people dont usually case cubes. it seems to be a bit more common in btl grows, probably due to the very limited fruiting area, but most people skip the casing on monotubs, etc., unless they have a specific reason for using it (ie, PE, which tends to blob a lot without a casing)
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Edited by c10h12n2o (04/01/17 09:21 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24211317 - 04/01/17 04:28 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I case cubes not just PE and have never seen coir casings contam. Peat based casing contams a lot faster IME.
This casing had to last 46 days before pins showed. It never contamed. In fact the long pin time of this species was the reason I chose to case with coir to begin with.
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24211951 - 04/01/17 09:15 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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interesting, when did you case it (in the timeline)? also, when using coir as a casing do you do anything different from a standard coir prep for bulk sub?
of course there are lots of factors involved, and a peat-based casing would be even MORE susceptible to mold if it was particularly acidic (which peat tends to be, before adjusting with lime and oyster flour, etc)
also a coir based casing wouldnt be any more likely to contam than a coir based sub
i also case cubes pretty often, it really helps the pinset with particular cultures, and seems totally irrelevant on others. just wanted to make sure OP understood that it wasnt required for cubes, and that most people tend not to for that reason
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,943
Loc: ation
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o] 1
#24212016 - 04/01/17 09:36 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Dude C10 you came off like quite the dick over a topic that you were wrong about
You said that Bodhi does plenty of grows off of coir with most of the nutrition coming from the coir. That is straight wrong. Most of your nutes come from your spawn, no matter the sub.Quote:
c10h12n2o said: coir is a LOOOOOOOONG way from non-nutritive, lots of people (like bodhi) get massive crops out of CVG alone (with most of the nutrients coming from the coir)
You said a bunch of other wrong shit that I don't feel like going back and quoting, but if you are gonna cause a 5 page bitch out of another member over a subject, you better actually know what you are talking about cause you just look like a dick to me
Ya, your hood is nice, doesn't make you an authority on anything
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c10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24212067 - 04/01/17 10:00 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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what was i wrong about? does bodhi not grow huge crops off CVG? and how was i a dick? the only way anyone could think i thought coir couldnt be used as a casing is if they cant read well
people shouldnt be offended by discussion about cultivation, im not emotionally invested in any theory, im here to learn and discuss... some people just have thin skin and want to talk feelings rather than cultivation
i didnt say the nutrition came EXCLUSIVELY from coir, i said mainly, which is something i could very well be wrong about, i should have said "comes from coir + spawn", or "largely from coir." but either way, my point is absolutely true, coir provides nutrition any way you slice it
that doesnt mean that nothing else is nutritious, or that spawn doesnt provide nutrition: of course they do
spawn, being the initial(ish) colony, will have the most established mycelium, and will thus be digested the longest and most thoroughly. so in the time frame of our projects, it almost certainly provides most of the nutrition, being the longest and most digested
but in a project like my 66qt tub pictured above, where i used 4 qts spawn and harvested 3496g off of a single flush, it is more than obvious that the bulk sub provides at least some of the nutrition
ive never claimed to be an authority on anything, thats why i ask questions... i can certainly talk about mush cult without getting emotional or getting my feelings hurt though, and i honestly believe other people should be able to as well
i would much rather talk about the mush cult than how much member X thinks member Y likes member Z..... i dont have much patience for that
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C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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lovelaughlibs
Dopamine Slave



Registered: 10/14/15
Posts: 1,811
Loc: England
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24212094 - 04/01/17 10:15 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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My camera is awful at macro style pics so I'll have to wait a few more days to capture how its colonising. In general however it seems to be growing directly up and through the CVG rather than growing sideways, so I hope this means it'll pin soon?
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: lovelaughlibs]
#24212106 - 04/01/17 10:21 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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did you at least remove the uncolonized grains, etc? probably, when you cased?
that was the most glaring problem in your OP
from what you are saying, should be good, just keep moisture and FAE where they need to be and you should see something soon
--------------------
 
C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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lovelaughlibs
Dopamine Slave



Registered: 10/14/15
Posts: 1,811
Loc: England
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24212111 - 04/01/17 10:23 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh yeah I did I removed them pretty much as soon as someone brought it up like 5 ish days ago. The logic seemed good so I followed it!
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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