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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bakenast] * 1
    #24205966 - 03/30/17 04:46 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Haters gonna hate hate hate

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InvisibleAndyHinton


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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24206036 - 03/30/17 05:14 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
i dont know why anyone would assume that they know all the factors at work in their own projects, much less others, especially considering how much is unknowable



I did read your whole post, and security is the main factor I care about because it's most within our control. Get a good night's sleep and wake up happy. Don't fool yourself into thinking that the cops haven't fooled themselves into thinking that "oyster mushroom" is a codeword. Even though it's not.

It's important for me to have the minimum observable activity going in, with the most nutrition recycled within, and the least public waste coming out. You can make a lot of beer, GLC, malt agar, grain spawn, and fruiting substrate from one commonplace 10-20 lb malt purchase. I never have to buy coir or LME again because I have compost and grain soak water.

Don't have reptiles? No coir, then. No garden, no compost; no rye field, no RGS; no lawn, no grass seed; no horses, no oats; not a birdwatcher, no WBS. That's why my security tek stresses gardening and home brewing. They dramatically expand the ingredients you can plausibly use. Also, because everyone eats and we're growing food, it follows that the organic market has good ingredients too.

Some are obviously better than others, like everyone knows that corn sucks. But every other useful thing is simply a function of how many nutrients you can pack into the smallest space, in the most discreet way.

The PP5 containers are for soup. The modified jelly jars? "I do agar to domesticate brewers' yeasts and propagate plants, it's as easy as a high school science lab. So I have the best beer and garden possible, and I never have to buy those things again."

The only thing that matters is being able to do what works for you come tomorrow. Figuring out nutrition vs. water is easy. Decoupling your purchases, movements, networks, yields, personae, etc., is hard.

No peat moss, ever, because it's a fossil resource.


--------------------

Edited by AndyHinton (03/31/17 08:59 AM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: AndyHinton] * 1
    #24206051 - 03/30/17 05:20 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

don't tell people don't get caught then you don't have to explain your funky looking jars and legal purchases of odd supplies.

If you live in a "Crack Stack" or any city housing complex of lesser vertical height I can see not wanting to draw attention.

I would suggest growing sclerotia, why does it matter what species you're tripping on. if growing discrete is your game and you live in some place you have to be looking over your shoulder all the time then why even bother with cubensis.

now if you need a nice looking bag of cubensis for some reason you're probably in more of a position to be caught because of that then the things you buy anyway

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InvisibleAndyHinton


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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: AndyHinton]
    #24206144 - 03/30/17 05:58 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

The simple fact is that the public is ignorant. It doesn't matter what species you grow, mushrooms are cubes in most people's minds because of the peculiar history of American cultivation.

I don't know what you're implying on this microbial homesteading forum, but I do know enough to suggest that you look critically at the general nature of your posts and uploads.

Sorry, not interested in continuing this discussion any further.

:peace:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: AndyHinton]
    #24206227 - 03/30/17 06:33 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Im here for the serious people.
Have you seen c10's flow hood?
99.5% of people get along with me just fine

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24206535 - 03/30/17 08:19 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Bod, you do know that my statement doesn't preclude mushrooms growing from grain, right?  Surely you're ignoring the obvious in favor of making another specious attack?  I myself grow TONS of Cubensis from direct grain - but it is still subject to that dynamic.  Try to understand what you're bashing a little better.  Your attack ends up making you look bad.  THAT one was obvious. Weak sauce, man

Edit: For the record, my quote can be taken as simply a different angle on the explanation for why consolidation is often necessary, a la PFtek & RR, before you can expect pins. We've also seen how it can sometimes effect blobbig behavior.
Other methods, like poms, also reveal things about Cubensis' characteristics that normal grows may otherwise cloud.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24206543 - 03/30/17 08:21 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup::cool::cheers:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24206567 - 03/30/17 08:31 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

c10, gonna say one more time, people have been using coir in casing for decades. Just because it's a time-tested practice doesn't mean you get to call it "outdated" "or bad idea".  Why nobody else is calling you on this is beyond me right now.  Coir is and has almost always been an acceptable casing layer ingredient.  Look up posts about it by TCs. I know for a fact even the 'legendary' RogerRabbit regularly stated so. Maybe it's talked about less here these days, idk, but that doesn't mean the truth changed.
It's not my material of preference.  But to condemn anyone who uses it to contams due to a "nutritious" casing, lol, is to put your reputation on the line, and to not understand how coir's traits make it so handy to amateur growers.  Just UTFSE for a second before you make another age-long post trying to chastise me for nostalgically sticking to a "bad idea"... which is still 100% valid.



Edit:  Here, let me UTFSE for you.  Took me 1 minute to find CURRENT trusted cultivators CURRENTLY mentioning using COIR as a CASING LAYER

Pastywhyte:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23973565#23973565
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24076364#24076364

cronicr:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23984438#23984438

Mad Season:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24011801#24011801

And... what's this... bodhisatta?  Not advising it, but saying it's what he'd use if so...
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24093589#24093589
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24011670#24011670

Okay, that search result was hundreds of pages long, but I do believe I can rest my case with that


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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Edited by Violet (03/30/17 08:49 PM)

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InvisibleJosex
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24206583 - 03/30/17 08:38 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Pulling up a chair for the drama, love me some drama :datass:

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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Josex]
    #24206593 - 03/30/17 08:40 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

:freewilly:


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InvisibleJosh.0
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Josex]
    #24206607 - 03/30/17 08:44 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Pulling up a chair for the drama, love me some drama :datass:




Right! :ohsodevious:
Shit someone might just learn something new from reading this..
Maybe not tho..but please do carry on. :popcorn:


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:trippinbawelz:                              :trippinballs::mindblown::trippinballs:                      :awecid:

            :mushdance:                              :growshrooms:                                    :mushdance:

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Josh.0]
    #24206622 - 03/30/17 08:51 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I do believe I said I used coir as casing on occasion the last page.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24206626 - 03/30/17 08:51 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Right, yeah.  I'm not even sure why he's trying to argue with me on that, really.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24206772 - 03/30/17 10:10 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Common ground look at that


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you

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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24206801 - 03/30/17 10:22 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

again, as i said before, since you either dont read or have shit reading comprehension and completely dont understand the argument

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
of course it could work, wax paper can work, but using a nutritive casing layer kind of seems like its misunderstanding the point of a casing layer

im fairly certain this is what happened with OP, because he used CVG (a bulk substrate) as a casing layer

coir is a LOOOOOOOONG way from non-nutritive, lots of people (like bodhi) get massive crops out of CVG alone (with most of the nutrients coming from the coir)

yes, coir is relatively contam resistant compared to other bulk substrates, but that doesnt mean its non-nutritive, or that it cant contam, or that nutritive casings are a good idea vs nonnutritive

i love discussions about cultivation principles, and i have disagreed, discussed, and argued with bodhi on many occasions (it usually leads me to a bunch of new stuff to look up and learn about). but never about how much he likes me hahaha... i try to restrict it to cultivation principles and other things that dont require me to be a mind reader




i never said coir wouldnt work as a casing layer, i simply asked you why you would use a nutritive casing layer that will acidify rather than a ph adjusted proper casing..... and you just got mad

are you capable of having an adult conversation about these principles? because simply saying people have cased with coir before does not say anything about the talking points i brought up

things arent as simple as good or bad, thats why its important to understand principles rather than constantly spouting nonsense and resorting to the fallacy of an argument from authority

you are quoting examples of coir being used as a casing as if i had said it had never been done. i said it was a bad idea vs a real casing mix, and listed the reasons why, not that it had never been done

plus, even your references are used incorrectly. they used coir as a casing, but says absolutely nothing about the virtues of non-nutritive ph corrected casing vs a nutritive casing (which is what i asked you)...

RR has been telling people this for 15 years now when yall case with straight coir... RR and many others have discussed this on many occasions, and there doesnt seem to be any debate among those that understand the discussion

Quote:

Coir is a substrate so it would not be usable as a casing layer unless diluted massively with vermiculite. 60/40 verm-coir was used for quite some time, but it usually fully colonizes serving more as a second substrate layer than a casing, but regardless it usually performed well. Peat moss is the casing layer of choice, usually mixed with vermiculite, gypsum, and lime.
RR




which is exactly what i am saying. no one ever said you cant case with coir

OP cased with CVG because they completely misunderstood the difference between bulk sub and casing mix. rather than explain the difference, you confused them worse and got all pissed... you should know better V, these are the basics

you shouldnt have to completely misconstrue and misunderstand what was said just to convince yourself you made a point.... (the proverbial strawman)

maybe dial the defensiveness down a bit and discuss cult principles rather than this "everybody picks on me for no reason" crap... still dont know why you take things so personal and take discussion points as personal attacks...

if casing with coir is better than using a 50/50+ mix, you shouldnt have any trouble explaining why. i certainly didnt have any trouble explaining why its not...

btw i am hitting a bong every time V uses the word "specious" lol..... the simple pleasures in life :laugh:


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited by c10h12n2o (03/30/17 10:46 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24206843 - 03/30/17 10:40 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I see your jimmies are rustled

"i simply asked you why you would use a nutritive casing layer that will acidify rather than a ph adjusted proper casing"
Because the inflated difference just doesn't fucking matter like you assert it does, especially for cubensis, especially for the common grower.  The proof is in the pudding all over this board all into history.  That's enough for case closed right there.  If you say it's so much better, where's the significant end-result display of that monstrous argument-worthy difference????!?!???


"non-nutritive pH adjusted casing vs nutritive casing" makes it seem like a much bigger difference than it is.  You're taking semantic descriptive differences and fabricating a supposedly significant experiential difference from them... where none exists my man.

You don't have to pH adjust coir, for one.  Also you can expect most things to "acidify" regardless.  It's just not a point worth pushing, dude.  Especially with such long and verbally pushy/aggressive/accusing posts.  Save those for topics of substance or controversy or with something new to learn/show, take it from me.


If you could have any point about the difference worth noting whatsoever, it would be that mycelium tends to be more likely to colonize coir-based casing layers more thoroughly, which isn't really a problem (especially with you being someone who thinks it's gonna acidify and contam just because it's "nutritious", lol).  But you don't even make that point.  You're sticking to the minutia and pretending it's monstrous.


"you are quoting examples of coir being used as a casing as if i had said it had never been done"
Now here's where I'm gonna have to start thinking that maybe you're an idiot, no offense just observation.  Because that's obviously not why I said that.  I said that because it shows that PEOPLE WHO KNOW BETTER THAN YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK ENOUGH ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE YOU'RE EXAGGERATING TO EVEN BOTHER MENTIONING IT AS A POTENTIAL DETRIMENT.

A little tidbit advice.  If you effectively never see active TCs mention it when it's brought up, it probably doesn't matter enough for you to make a huge dramatic argument about it and derail a thread.

You're making a massive deal out of nothing.  If 50/50 were quantitatively confirmed as a statistically significant better result to the common Cubensis grower, then the realities of using coir as a casing layer would not be as they always have been.  We're not in Advanced Mycology here.  I use potting soil, but coir is a more than acceptable casing layer for those who want to use it.  :thumbup:




--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (03/30/17 10:48 PM)

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24206862 - 03/30/17 10:56 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

ruffled?? :rofl:

not quite, i think you and anyone else who gets so emotionally invested in discussions about cultivation are hilarious :smile:

the difference in bulk substrate and casing mix is more than semantic, these are established principles... either confusing noobs is a hobby of yours, or you dont understand the basics despite speaking like Moses on the mountain

i never said anything about a monstrous difference, i was quite clear that coir has been used effectively and works fine. i simply brought up some of the reasons why it is better technique to use a casing mix for casing, rather than casing with a bulk substrate, and gave several reasons

if you want to argue, try arguing with something i actually said, not just getting pissed at your imagination


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited by c10h12n2o (03/30/17 11:02 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24206864 - 03/30/17 10:58 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Honestly man you're the one trying to confuse noobs if you want to make them think, and have me say, they can't use coir as a casing layer when all the TCs here are telling them they can.  Get that shit straight.  I'm not confusing noobs by telling them the same thing as, well, anyone else knowledgeable here.

I'm not telling them to case with straw or manure.  Can't just call it "bulk substrate" and say it's all the same, that coir is just as bad as casing as those other materials.  The difference between "bulk" and "casing" when it comes to coir, as you're forcing it, is as good as semantic when the real-life experience is no difference.
Conflating coir with those other materials is misrepresentative...

...and I think you're doing it on purpose to stir up shit.

Try starting this shit with the other TCs next time you see THEM say that coir is OK for casing.  Say that THEY are spreading "bad ideas".  Type up a million accusing sentences to THEM giving them nonsense about acknowledging that it is more than acceptable and experientially similar if not the very same.


Straighten your priorities out.  And in the parlance of my peoples, "git gud"


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (03/30/17 11:05 PM)

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Invisiblec10h12n2o
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
    #24206878 - 03/30/17 11:06 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

you know V, if you put half as much energy into learning cultivation basics as you put into arguing with people about your feelings, youd probably have figured out how to do bulk by now... lol

:freewilly:


--------------------

C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide


"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited by c10h12n2o (03/30/17 11:07 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
    #24206886 - 03/30/17 11:09 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

You can tell you won an argument when the "opponent" just falls into drivel and personal belittlement, totally abandoning any semblance of counter-point

lol, kid I TEACH the basics. Go read my teks.  Start with the truffles, they're the easiest :wink:
Or maybe you can show us YOUR years of accomplishment and material?



Photos all taken years before your registration.

What was that about me growing bulk?
Fail insult is fail.



--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (03/30/17 11:17 PM)

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