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lovelaughlibs
Dopamine Slave


Registered: 10/14/15
Posts: 1,811
Loc: England
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24205657 - 03/30/17 02:57 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
c10h12n2o said: this is why we use 50/50+ (peat/verm + oyster shell and/or lime), a non-nutritive casing layer to create a good microclimate for pinning on the substrate surface, oyster shell as a ph buffer and lime to set the ph slightly basic so that is less susceptible to mold and takes longer to acidify
with straight coir, the surface starts acidic and becomes more acidic as it is digested. most people dont case cubes for monotubs, etc, so obviously a colonized uncased CVG substrate can do just fine, but casing with coir undermines many of the reasons to use a casing. (that doesnt mean it wont work, just seems like bad technique, though i am certainly open to explanation if this is not the case)
Alright, looks like I'll need to hunt down peat at some point if I wanna case future things. Peat is something that needs pasteurising, right?
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bastard4life]
#24205661 - 03/30/17 02:58 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Most nutrition comes from spawn
If you use low spawn rates like with some edibles you usually supplement your substrate since its cheaper than making or buying more clean spawn.
At the end of the day almost all of use do our grows overly nutritional anyway. Otherwise you wouldn't get a second or third flush or if you did it would be rinky dink as fuck.
Mycelium won't digest all the nutrients by the first flush even the nutrition provided by spawn.
I rarely if ever use a casing layer. When i do its usually straight coir. Casing layers are a crutch with cubes imo, maybe PE varieties are an exception but regardless people pull of no blob first flushes with uncased PE grows
Premade 50/50+ is called jiffymix seed starter
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bastard4life]
#24205666 - 03/30/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bastard4life said: Did you even look at my quote from a TRUSTED CULTIVATOR that's not bodhisatta? Mad Season know his shit too.
His situation isn't mine. The facts of mine as I stated them are real and deserve being acknowledged as what they are. A million people telling me they didn't have my problem or don't believe I did will not have changed my situation.
I tried all kinds of things along the ways of troubleshooting, including going to much greater lengths than he described.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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bastard4life
Travel Agent



Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 955
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
#24205672 - 03/30/17 03:02 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have mold all over my house. I don't get contams because my spawn is clean and I pasteurized properly. Your not the only one with that "situation".
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bastard4life]
#24205680 - 03/30/17 03:06 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm also not the only one sharing the apparent quagmires of my situation. I get people message me privately sharing their stories because they're afraid of the kind of unforgiving criticism that comes with believing that maybe what 96% of Shroomerites experience isn't universal truth.
I've gotten in these debates a dozen times and you're offering nothing new here now. I'm done with it until it becomes something other than a boring rehash.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
#24205693 - 03/30/17 03:10 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Nah, coir is not especially nutritious, according to everything I've learned for years. What it has is mostly tied up in lignin, apparently. That's all why it works for cultivation the way it does and why it works fine as a casing. It simply does and has been for years, per pros all the way up to the top like RR. It's a tough point to argue that coir/verm casing will result in a high contamination chance, and honestly you're talking to someone who would be more likely to argue it than most, and yet you hear me doin the opposite here. Coir casing is fine.
sorry V, but coir is quite nutritious for fungi, this is a fact. if it wasnt, then that would mean bodhi's mushrooms are nearly 100% water (i always knew those fields of ESS dicks looked bunk )
of course there is a lot to be said for the nutrients mostly coming from the grains, but certainly not all, since grows can be light on spawn and still put out huge crops. for example i had a 66qt tub put out a single flush that was nearly 3kg, even though only 4qt spawn was used. in that tub, the substrate looked like a rasin after harvest, and weighed only a fraction of what my bulk sub weighed. obviously most of the weight is water, but the greatly diminished substrate shows that it is at least getting some of its nutrients from the hpoo/straw/coir
if coir wasnt nutritious it would not be used as a bulk substrate, this is a simple fact. if it wasnt nutritious then it would be used as a casing material rather than a substrate
we need to be very clear about the differences between bulk substrates and casing materials, misinformation will mislead noobs into doing things like casing with CVG (as per OP)
also, i never said coir/verm casing "will result in a high contamination chance," i simply said it was bad technique to use a nutritive casing, because it misses the point of what a casing is supposed to be. that doesnt mean coir/verm cant provide a suitable microclimate, just means there are better ways to do it
--------------------
 
C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
#24205700 - 03/30/17 03:12 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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But did you try to fix your spawn or did you just adamantly say it was 100% clean Because I think that's what most people are wondering.
I guess no one believes your spawn cleanliness judgment. You think it's your house instead that's fine I could care less if you want to figure it out or not.
The bottle grows are fine and all but as a replacement for bulk is lol city you know how many Tupperware I would have to prepare to do what I can get with a g2g and Putting a lot of clean eggs in one big basket
It's a fine method it obviously works to make shrooms.
It's not a bulk alternative if you're for real It doesn't have better potency or power(lol power wtf) Also, Let's not forget plant food fertilizer lol
So in light of that if you can't figure out clean spawn have fun with a Tupperware party
Everyone who's done an outdoor monotub knows that a moldy dirty spore laden environment doesn't mean failure just as much as a moldy house with moldy walls doesn't mean failure
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24205701 - 03/30/17 03:13 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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C10, Dude, coir has been used openly as a casing layer since WAAAAAAYYYYY before you joined this board, and approved by the major pros the whole ride along. All I know to say now is "deal with it".
Only material you'll find that's truly close to "non-nutritious" is vermiculite and even it somehow manages to lose weight during the process. That doesn't actually undermine any of my points, which all stand flawlessly.
Even look above at Bodhi's reply about supplementing his coir. People aren't doing straight-coir grows without spawn or supplementation.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (03/30/17 03:20 PM)
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bastard4life
Travel Agent



Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 955
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205705 - 03/30/17 03:14 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Bodhisatta says droppin the mic
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205715 - 03/30/17 03:17 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: But did you try to fix your spawn or did you just adamantly say it was 100% clean Because I think that's what most people are wondering.
I guess no one believes your spawn cleanliness judgment. You think it's your house instead that's fine I could care less if you want to figure it out or not.
The bottle grows are fine and all but as a replacement for bulk is lol city you know how many Tupperware I would have to prepare to do what I can get with a g2g and Putting a lot of clean eggs in one big basket
It's a fine method it obviously works to make shrooms.
It's not a bulk alternative if you're for real It doesn't have better potency or power(lol power wtf) Also, Let's not forget plant food fertilizer lol
So in light of that if you can't figure out clean spawn have fun with a Tupperware party
Gonna disregard all the petty trolling and just remind you *I didn't have that problem for 2 YEARS until I MOVED*. My spawn and grains were always clean and had an effective flawless grow record until monotubs were made. I've stated before, I was also a semi-commercial gourmet mushroom farmer, and grew Shiitake and King Oyster to scale with the typical methods, even after changing my Cubensis teks. All my other grows worked fine. My "spawn" was regularly used to super-expand to other spawn while Still maintaining 100%. Bags/blocks of all manners of species, even exotics, with excellent success rate. My bulk subs were 95%+ successful other than monotuvs specifically. End of story.
In short, I don't care if people refuse to believe my spawn was clean. Clearly my methods depend on that ability and clearly I have proven high success rate, and that goes even beyond what's shown on the forum. I don't have to convince you of this truth for it to be true nonetheless.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
#24205720 - 03/30/17 03:20 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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K thanks for your contributions to the understanding of clean spawn
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205733 - 03/30/17 03:24 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nothing else to try? Note taken
Frankly I've shown more successful spawn-and-bulk based methods, and with a much larger variety of species, than you have even despite your 28k posts (at least at the time of my hiatus starting, looks like you at least post a few good monos now, cg)
So "that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: Violet]
#24205769 - 03/30/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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i dont know why anyone would assume that they know all the factors at work in their own projects, much less others, especially considering how much is unknowable
there is a lot going on in these projects, many factors involved which we are not privy to the specifics of, and it is quite difficult impossible to attribute causation to any set of circumstances without all the information.
people need to understand the difference in correlation and causation, if they want to effectively troubleshoot
they also need to understand that the world is not binary, and many explanations are not mutually exclusive. also anecdotes do not invalidate facts/stats. gotta understand these things
Quote:
Violet said: C10, Dude, coir has been used openly as a casing layer since WAAAAAAYYYYY before you joined this board, and approved by the major pros the whole ride along. All I know to say know is "deal with it".
Only material you'll find that's truly close to "non-nutritious" is vermiculite and even it somehow manages to lose weight during the process. That doesn't actually undermine any of my points, which all stand flawlessly.
Even look above at Bodhi's reply about supplementing his coir. People aren't doing straight-coir grows without spawn or supplementation.
lol.... calm down, and maybe reconsider some of your assumptions. if you think about this stuff rather than just trying to argue because you are sentimental about bad ideas/advice. a conversation about cultivation principles should not piss you off so bad, and is nothing i should have to "deal with," critical thinking should not be painful 
you might be suprised how long ive been around (WAAAAAAAAY before you registered)
again, you arent addressing ANY of the principles being discussed, for example why a non-nutritive ph-adjusted layer is superior to a nutritive layer that will acidify?
you arent making an argument, you are just saying people have done it. people used to do all kinds of dumb things before we learned better. i dont know why you are so sentimental about this stuff.... if you understand the difference in a casing vs a bulk substrate, this is a no brainer...
you arent even producing anecdotal evidence of why its a good idea, even though ive explained why it isnt, you are just saying that because someone did it its a good idea.... some of us like to think, and try to understand how things work... and even if you did, it doesnt change any of the many reasons NOT to use a nutritive casing layer
"grows without spawn"? what the heck are you even talking about.... you lost me there... bodhi grows with uncased CVG, which is a bulk substrate
i dont understand why you are so upset, or sentimental about bad/outdated ideas. i also dont understand why you call flaming/trolling anytime someone disagrees with you or clarifies the complexity of something you presented as fact... we should be able to have an adult conversation about these things, just because someone has a different take doesnt mean they are a troll, hell they might be right
no one with any sense is gonna just go with bad, unsubstantiated ideas because you say you are such an incredible grower and have such magnificent success (at least you dont lack for confidence haha....), nor should you expect them to
--------------------
 
C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o]
#24205775 - 03/30/17 03:39 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've never supplemented coir  and you have to use spawn you can't just fucking put spores to coir
I don't even do CVG anymore I just do C
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c10h12n2o
serial dilutor



Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 3,200
Loc: the abyss
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205786 - 03/30/17 03:43 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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fuckin ay wow, i didnt realize; you dropped the V+G?
thats dope, very interesting. any general notes/observations you can share about any differences? ive never worked with straight coir
--------------------
 
C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide
"Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing."
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies"
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: c10h12n2o] 1
#24205791 - 03/30/17 03:46 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've noticed no discernible difference.
another thing that always got me was this shit
Quote:
Violet said:Cubensis greatly prefers to fruit from sites of no nutrition, whether it didn't have any or has all been consumed.
not I am lead to believe, or my experience has made me come up with this theory.
nope just say it like its a proven fact.
is why I'm a little more critical of you in particular becoming more clear or am I still "trolling" ?
I get pins coming right off grain so  also when I did BRF agar dishes I made them with different levels of nutrition. the ones that were overly nutritious pinned the best on fully colonized plates.
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bastard4life
Travel Agent



Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 955
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205805 - 03/30/17 03:52 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow that quote sounds like ass talk. Ive only used hpoo compost and usually get even pinsets. How does it fruit from non nutrition only with even pinsets on one of the most nutritious substrates? And after only a week of colonization. That does not makes sense.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205814 - 03/30/17 03:53 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22717425
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Spawning to bulk in a monotub
Takeaway points
- Spawning to bulk isn't a sterile procedure, you can do it in your living room with your bare hands. Your environment doesn't matter
- Clean spawn should be very easy to break up, you should be able to do it in your hands, I don't recommend breaking up every jar with your hands though. It was a demonstration of the ease you should have in breaking up spawn jars
- Take the time to make your substrate even and level
- Make sure it's well mixed but if there's a few spots where it's not perfectly mixed that's fine.
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bastard4life
Travel Agent



Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 955
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bodhisatta]
#24205828 - 03/30/17 03:58 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wasn't argueing bodhisatta. I was agreeing. Btw I spawn in my living room and barehanded I make the substrate even. I of course wash my hair and body/teeth and use germx after I've smacked my jars but the rest is barehanded.
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bakenast
Muffen Stuffer


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 924
Last seen: 5 months, 4 days
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Re: RGS Bottle Grow! Critique/Advise Me! [Re: bastard4life] 1
#24205957 - 03/30/17 04:43 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont get on here as much as I would like anymore, about a year ago when i checked in I rememeber bodhista being a condescending arrogant prick to somebody, funny I see the same thing today, reminds me of old DocT days when that jerk was around. crazzzy someone can post 28000 times in 3 years wtf go outside or something and cheer up....
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