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Anonymous
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 Post deleted by Anno 
#2418656 - 03/11/04 09:34 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Anonymous
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 Post deleted by Anno [Re: ]
#2418666 - 03/11/04 09:38 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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 MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
 
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2418755 - 03/11/04 10:08 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's a well put analysis on religion bf6. Good references, excellent post 
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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 kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2418757 - 03/11/04 10:09 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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 dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood 
I'm gonna have to make a sandwhich before reading all of that!!! 
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
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Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2418776 - 03/11/04 10:19 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe the primary ROOT which Man's tendency towards Religious beliefs stems from, is the fact that Man's inquisitive nature is what seperates us from the animals. And by inquisitive nature, I mean the ability to question our own existence, to actually ponder the meaning of life and the Universe, and become cognizant of our own mortality, conduct scientific experiments and so on. Generally, a certain level of 'Consciousness', that through evolutionary process or otherwise, Homo Sapiens have gained.
Broadly speaking, from there on, I believe it all comes down to the general psyche of the general populace in the area, the collective consciousness in a certain part of the world, the environmental factors at any given place, etc; that determines how the folks of that particular region will form beliefs and speculations and religion, and so on.
Another point of view, is that perhaps gaining that 'certain level of consciousness', comes with an intrinsic nature of being 'spiritual'. In other words, existing as an inherently spiritual beings on Earth, Man feels inclined to form religion--to practice the spirituality that Man has been 'blessed' with, so to speak.
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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xero
King of the Jews
Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 181
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2418820 - 03/11/04 10:40 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gret post BF6. I'd give you 5 shrooms but I think I already have. Please post more of your thoughts sometime they are quite the fullfilling read. 
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Spokesman
The HighPhilosopher
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2418869 - 03/11/04 11:03 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe men keep slaves because they were slaves to another race once.................... Does a dog that gets fed good and tought tricks worships his master?...................Hmmm.... It almost seems like man just won't let Eden go.... 
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2418873 - 03/11/04 11:06 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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www.csp.org
& huston smith's little classic _forgotten truth_ is well worth checkin' out... (the '77 version sez: the primordial tradition; the '93 edition sez: the common vision... go figure...)
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: gnrm23]
#2418875 - 03/11/04 11:10 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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waterbug
just a figment
Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 3,322
Loc: where i live they grow ou...
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2419229 - 03/11/04 01:15 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice post bf6er, I actually read it all, and it held my interest. I like the way you compare and contrast many of the worlds religions. Im surprised you took the time to type all that out, but good job, very informative  .
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Girls Poop!
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KthxBye
bandito furioso
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 1,197
Loc: bottom of the noob barrel
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2419271 - 03/11/04 01:24 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd never heard that theory of freud's...kinda puts an interesting perspective on a messiah we killed/died for our sins.
I like the comparison between Catholocism and Buddhism
as for a starting place where everything was good? nostalgia. nostalgia and exaggeration in retelling.
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I know what he wants: a drag of smooth tobbacco blended with the finest Turkish Turkweed. Here, have a toke on me you dumb beast.
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Frog
Warrior
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Re: How did Religion Originate? [Re: ]
#2419467 - 03/11/04 02:00 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bloodflower6 said:
I hope that post follows the rules that you guys said I had to follow in order to post in S&P by the way.
I didn't use the smileys more than once per smiley and I didn't double space.
bf6
Well, you don't have to follow the rules any longer. It's really just a test for new people to see if they are good at following directions, or to see if they are rebels at heart. Since you didn't double-space, it appears you are quite welcome here.
Very excellent read. I'm impressed. As I read it, I was caused to think again, as I have many times since I joined this forum, how fortunate I am that I was referred to this forum. There are really smart people here, and each person seems to have his/her own specialty on which he/she has become knowledgeable.
bf6, after reading that post, I am extra glad you are here to help set discussions straight in the context of your post. Thank you for sharing it with us and I'm looking forward to reading more of the same.
I have to read it again. I think you deserve an A. Who gives grades out around here? 
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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kushlover
stringcheesehead
Registered: 07/17/01
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Re: WHERE DID IT COME FROM? [Re: ]
#2419830 - 03/11/04 03:40 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bloodflower6 said:
If that is true of something as personal and as uniquely human as language, then would it not be reasonable to think that man's ideas about God and religion should also have started from one common source? After all, religion is related to thinking, and thinking is related to man's ability to use language. It is not that all religions actually grew out of one religion, but the ideas and concepts should be traceable to some common origin or pool of religious ideas. Is there evidence to support this? And if, indeed, man's religions did originate in one single source, what might it be? How can we find out?
I agree that the similarities between both religion and language point to a common original source. But I feel it is a fallacy to jump to the conclusion that this common source must have been one specific geographic location. Is it not just as logical to assume that the common binding source for both is the human mind, which is well known to generally follow the same thought patterns despite race, culture, ect. I mean people react differently to external stimulus based on experience, but logic and its principles, such as cause and effect, are common to every mind. If they were not, science would not hold and we would be unable to relate to one another at all.
Quote:
bloodflower6 said:
What can we conclude from all of this? We note that those who believed in these myths and legends lived far from one another geographically. Their culture and traditions were different and distinct. Their social customs bore no relationship to one another. And yet, when it comes to their religions, they believed in such similar ideas. Although not every one of these peoples believed in all the things mentioned, all of them believed in some of them. The obvious question is, Why? It was as if there was a common pool from which each religion drew its basic beliefs, some more, some less. With the passage of time, these basic ideas were embellished and modified, and other teachings developed from them. But the basic outline is unmistakable.
Again, could not this common pool be the human mind. Cultures (including their religions and languages) could have evolved geographically seperate from one another, but have come from the same common source (the human mind). Similarities can be seen when the different cultural aspects are compared because they all emerged from human minds which follow the same logic and thought patterns. Therefore there are unmistakable similiarities in the conclusions that were reached based on the same external stimulation (the world around us). Why do the similarities necessarily point to a common geographic origin for religion and language?
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What I'm about to tell you is the truth.......
What I just told you is a lie.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: WHERE DID IT COME FROM? [Re: kushlover]
#2422708 - 03/12/04 05:08 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think that it is an important thing to keep in mind that all the continents used to be connected. One big mass of land. I haven't studied this but it is my understanding that they broke up and drifted apart after the dawn of man.....
It is a possibillity that the similarities arose from the fact that all of our minds are on common ground and that we all have the same thought patterns. But why is this true? How likely is it that humans developed independant of each other in different areas of the world and are basically the same?
I think that even if we had evolved to the same basic human in all different parts of the world, independant of each other, there would still be some common source shared by all. Even if it was some sort of monkey that was the same and populated all the areas (keep in mind that once a species is seperated geographically, they start to evolve on their own as the conditions are different), that at one point and time that monkey would have had to have been from one location before it went off to the different corners of the world and evolved.
Since we as humans have only minor differences that really don't make us categorically "different", even though our civilizations have developed from basically all over the world, I think it is definitely plausible to come to the conclusion that at one point and time we developed in one location.
Even if religion didn't necessarily develop when we were in that location, since we are of the same we will tend to think the same things and come to the same conclusions, especially since back then we weren't aware of much and weren't exactly knowleged and full of understanding.
Us originating from the same source is definitely supported if there used to be one super-continent. I don't know the numbers... when do the scientists speculate we sprouted on this planet? I think I remember that they keep finding older and older fossils.... two million years, even?
I just did a search quick and our most ancient, known, up-right walking ancestors were around over 4 million years ago ..
Well damn, Pangea started breaking up 180 million years ago.
Anyways, that still doesn't put out the good possibillity that we were from the same source. Apparently we just had to do some traveling to get around. 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: WHERE DID IT COME FROM? [Re: ]
#2423047 - 03/12/04 08:49 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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that was one of THE most thought provoking posts I've seen since the existence one.
what I want to know is about cavemen. what would an anthropologist say about that? Are we going to operate under the assumption that man has had this mode of thought since we started existing? did man "become" aware, or was he always aware? when did man start having abstract thoughts? that is thoughts and ideas that doesn't directly relate to the physical world of experience. like a unicorn...we have never seen "proof" of one existing, but it still exists in our minds.
Skorpivo mentioned something about mans iquisitive nature. could it be that it is because man wants to explain things for "peace of mind" and thus makes it up? we ahve many fiction books that have many detailed religions in them, all made up, and each carrying a good amount of weight with them.
the imagination is vast, and embellishment is easy.
what you bring up though about the similarities between religious stories regarding creation has definately made me think hard about this. this is a very important question that you brought up. it's just like there were pyramids in egypt, as there were in central america. why a 3d triangle shape?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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daba
Stranger
Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: WHERE DID IT COME FROM? [Re: ]
#2423876 - 03/12/04 12:21 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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bf6: I didn't have time to read your entire post as I have to go to class soon (nor did I have time to peruse the entire thread) but here are my thoughts about the origin of religion:
Religion is, in essence, a method of controlling the masses. Just as the state (government) was created to reward and punish concrete activities (i.e. you kill someone, you face a concrete punishment, maybe going to jail), religion was similarily created to reward and punish the peoples' abstract activites (i.e. if you don't believe in God, you will burn in hell for all eternity, whereas if you do, you will be rewarded in Heaven). Religion bears a certain duality; not only does religion thrust upon society an ultimatum to be good or burn in hell, but also bewilders the people with the mystery of the unknown, namely the "afterlife."
Nonetheless, religion also serves as an immediate source of identity and purpose (perhaps there is some truth to the term "scatterbrained Atheist") , providing a set of guidelines for which one should live out their lives. However, even the previous statement fuels my argument: religion is nothing more than a blueprint to control others.
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: daba]
#2423906 - 03/12/04 12:27 PM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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bf6
Keep the highfive alive!
Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3,121
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Re: WHERE DID IT COME FROM? [Re: ]
#2438340 - 03/16/04 07:16 AM (20 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great post bf6. I appreciated all of the refrences instead of just saying something you attempted to be precise in your scriptures.
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The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, they're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away, but if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth...
bloodflower6
Yay for Pornography!
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