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OfflineFerather
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Discussion of mycelium and nutrients
    #24192278 - 03/25/17 03:21 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Making my own thread aimed at the discussion or debate of nutrients and mycelium.
Feel free to join in, correct any info or add-argue logical information.

Rules: No aggression, or flaming. No direct offense to users.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24192291 - 03/25/17 03:27 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

c10h12n2o said:
...bear in mind that anything you know about fertilizers for plants is not going to carry over well into fungus, you can pretty much ignore the C:N:P:K ratio rules that apply to plants, fungi have totally different needs




Mycelium require the same basic set of nutrients plants do, this includes the C:N ratio.
Shu has proven King oyster grows best at 100:1 - 200:1 carbon-nitrate ratio.

Here is King oyster (change to 100g) it needs many nutrients.

Example: I would need 0.7mg Zinc for 100g fresh.


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OfflineMattisfat
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24192353 - 03/25/17 03:50 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

After the discussion the other day i would rule out cubes :wink:
i would also guess that different gourmet mushrooms will probably need different amounts of certain nutrients.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Mattisfat]
    #24192428 - 03/25/17 04:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Effect of chemical fertilizer suppliments with rice straw on the growth and yeild of oyster mushroom (Pleurotus ostreatus)

Nitrogen Sources and the Growth Response of Pleurotus ostreatus Mushroom Mycelium

Tropical Mushrooms: Biological Nature and Cultivation Methods


Taken away from the read, adding fertilizer worked, even on rice straw: N-0.5%, P2O5-0.3%, K2O-0.3%.
Oyster loves ammoniacal and ureic nitrates and has a carbon-nitrate ratio.


Lets take a look at the composition of several ash types:




Lets take a look at the fertilizers I am using, composition:

   




Simple conclusion: It's down to the C:N ratio and what it can utilize as C and N.
Following this you then need to investigate other nutrient ratios.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24192432 - 03/25/17 04:18 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

for cubensis the spawn ratios we use provide far more than enough nutrients.

for edibles with low spawn ratios supplemented substrate makes up for the lack of spawn nutrients.

do you have anything new or interesting about psychedelic mushroom cultivation methods in relation to this?

also these are not "your" threads I don't think you get to make rules, everyone has to follow the forum rules.

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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24192467 - 03/25/17 04:27 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Will the mods make this a sub thread of Ferathers Corner?

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #24192494 - 03/25/17 04:39 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
for cubensis the spawn ratios we use provide far more than enough nutrients.



That's because cubensis will utilize starch and the present N in grains when fruiting. You can get good yield on 100% grain.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
for edibles with low spawn ratios supplemented substrate makes up for the lack of spawn nutrients.



Wood loving require rich cellulose as their main source of carbon to fruit well.
Grain contains nitrates, wood is weak in nitrates, you are adjusting.

Adding any nitrate-protein sources will improve the ratio.


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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24192533 - 03/25/17 04:58 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
for cubensis the spawn ratios we use provide far more than enough nutrients.

for edibles with low spawn ratios supplemented substrate makes up for the lack of spawn nutrients.

do you have anything new or interesting about psychedelic mushroom cultivation methods in relation to this?

also these are not "your" threads I don't think you get to make rules, everyone has to follow the forum rules.




What kind of spawn ratio are you using for cubes bohdi?
I have actually seen bigger yields with coir supplemented with wheat bran and sterilized using the same ratio as I was with monotubs, but using bags, 4 quarts sub and 2 quarts spawn per bag.


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Offlinecrowseed
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Marty Mycfly] * 1
    #24193641 - 03/26/17 02:16 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

In this video The Magic of Mushrooms (at 36:16) it shows oyster mycelium making a loop snare out of itself to trap nematode worms, which it then digests for nitrogen.

Has anyone tried adding nematodes when spawning? You can buy them dried in a packet or grow your own.

I'm not sure whether it's just oysters that do this, or whether other mushrooms eg cubes can do it.

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InvisibleMarty Mycfly
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: crowseed]
    #24193669 - 03/26/17 02:45 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

That is amazing:thumbup:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Marty Mycfly]
    #24194441 - 03/26/17 11:18 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

That is a very good documentary I saw a while back. Very informative.
And yes oysters are carnivorous for nitrates, creepy!


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InvisibleAndyHinton


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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24194728 - 03/26/17 01:10 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

That's really cool, I have to watch that documentary. :thumbup:

Oysters are carnivorous but all mushrooms seem to be cannibals. Lately I've been thinking about how to recapture waste nutrients with species sequencing, grain soak water, etc. Also experimenting with yeast as a fruiting supplement in the form of nutritional flakes and brewing sludge.

The theory is to increase the microbial density as much as possible before the PC cycle to ensure a comprehensive nutrient store. Mushrooms are polysaccharides. Mattisfat was kind enough to warn me to be careful with such "hot" substrates.

The relationship between substrate mass and thermogenesis is delicate, so I'm working with smaller containers.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: AndyHinton]
    #24194886 - 03/26/17 02:22 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24195051 - 03/26/17 03:31 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

But frozen yeast sludge sounds totally gross! If anyone can sell me a lab centrifuge cheap... :wink:

Maybe it's something to try for the KO1 grow. Two monotubs at 5-6 pints each of alder pellets, and supplement half with 2 cups of wheat bran and half with the same amount of nutritional yeast.


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Edited by AndyHinton (03/28/17 07:35 AM)

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Offlinecrowseed
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: AndyHinton]
    #24195126 - 03/26/17 04:18 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I know you have to sterilise if you add coffee grounds at spawn (for added nitrogen), but what if you add liquid coffee when hydrating the grain? I tried to find the answer but couldn't find anything definitive, so I've soaked 9 jars of WBS in weak coffee tonight (using Fooman's WBS tek except with weak coffee rather than water).

What do you think, sterilise or pasteurise the substrate eventually? I'm hoping pasteurisation will be enough. I'll be growing mostly oysters with it.

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: crowseed]
    #24195146 - 03/26/17 04:28 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Its the same thing, grounds added as grounds to the grain or added to the water first.


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Offlinecrowseed
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24195152 - 03/26/17 04:32 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Its the same thing, grounds added as grounds to the grain or added to the water first.




Thanks Ferather. Not what I wanted to hear but I can use the jars for lion's mane, which needs a sterilised substrate anyway. Thanks for saving me from a fail.

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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: crowseed]
    #24195202 - 03/26/17 04:56 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

crowseed said:
Quote:

Ferather said:
Its the same thing, grounds added as grounds to the grain or added to the water first.




Thanks Ferather. Not what I wanted to hear but I can use the jars for lion's mane, which needs a sterilised substrate anyway. Thanks for saving me from a fail.




Soaking in weak coffee is fine, but probably isn't needed. Sterilize as usual.

If you supplement your sub, then sterilize. I doubt weak coffee counts.

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OfflineFerather
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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: MorePies]
    #24195214 - 03/26/17 05:01 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

So you can just pasterize for example HWFP with weak coffee?

:takingnotes:


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Re: Discussion of mycelium and nutrients [Re: Ferather]
    #24195218 - 03/26/17 05:03 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Coffee and pasteurizing usually equals fail.

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