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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! * 2
    #24187288 - 03/23/17 08:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

President Vladimir Putin said:
“Russia is an inalienable and organic part of Greater Europe and European civilization. Our citizens think of themselves as Europeans…That’s why Russia proposes moving towards the creation of a common economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean, a community referred to by Russian experts as ‘the Union of Europe’ which will strengthen Russia’s potential in its economic pivot toward the ‘new Asia.’”




Putin has often made his desire to join the EU well known, and I've long had a theory as to why the US would oppose this.  It would make the EU far more powerful economically than the United States.

Now, a journalist who shares my opinion (and brings up a few other good points as well), wrote a good article about it.

Quote:

Will Washington Risk WW3 to Block an Emerging EU-Russia Superstate?
"This is why the US State Department joined with the CIA to topple the elected government of Ukraine in 2014."




I understand the rational behind the US doing this, and I'm not even against a US strategy to stop it.  But let's not fool ourselves about what is happening and why.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24187300 - 03/23/17 08:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

but trump and putin are super secrete butt buddies and such

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #24187324 - 03/23/17 08:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The hysteria over Russia is pretty far over the top at this point. And it's very American.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #24187362 - 03/23/17 09:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

There are reports that OP may have visited Russia in the last year and is working on behalf of Putin to forward Russian interests on the shroomery.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24187482 - 03/23/17 10:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

also the kgb has a video of trump peeing on a hooker

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24187555 - 03/23/17 11:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If I was European, I wouldn't want the cultural successors of the USSR to become the major dominant (military) superpower of Europe either. I'm sure it has (a lot) more to do with the entire history of the Cold War still being pretty fresh, with everyone of prime age to be a major politician in either Europe or Russia being alive during the 1960s through 80s to make Russia being in the EU really possible for several more decades.

If ever. It's hard to argue that Russia could really be a part of the EU given both histories, cultures, geographies. It's not really rational in my mind. The US and Canada are arguably better suited to join the EU, but they aren't for entirely practical reasons - mentally no one would accept it. Mentally, no one is going to believe that Russia or North America were ever truly European at the core despite shared roots, shared borders and shared histories.

Edited by PatrickKn (03/23/17 11:39 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods] * 1
    #24187728 - 03/24/17 02:32 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There are reports that OP may have visited Russia in the last year and is working on behalf of Putin to forward Russian interests on the shroomery.



You should be pleased to learn the shroomery is Putin's #1 target for getting his message out.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/24/17 02:44 AM)

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24187870 - 03/24/17 05:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't most of Russia in Asia? Maybe they could join China.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #24188185 - 03/24/17 08:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, i'm pretty sure russians have only been "european" for like 500 years.  Before that, i think most or all of russia's european holdings belonged to the swedes and turks.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24188230 - 03/24/17 09:06 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

President Vladimir Putin said:
“Russia is an inalienable and organic part of Greater Europe and European civilization. Our citizens think of themselves as Europeans…That’s why Russia proposes moving towards the creation of a common economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean, a community referred to by Russian experts as ‘the Union of Europe’ which will strengthen Russia’s potential in its economic pivot toward the ‘new Asia.’”




Putin has often made his desire to join the EU well known, and I've long had a theory as to why the US would oppose this.  It would make the EU far more powerful economically than the United States.





The eu is already more economically powerful than the us. Russia also isn't a very big economy. why would it want to join a union where it would take second fiddle to Britain, Germany, France and Italy.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/24/17 09:09 AM)

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24188257 - 03/24/17 09:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think his idea is to form his own version of the EU with, of course, him as the leader.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #24188292 - 03/24/17 09:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I just read an article about putins latest victim. He knew he was being hunted, got a bodyguard and he still ended up dead. I have no idea how anyone can defend putin. He's an international terrorist.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods] * 3
    #24188312 - 03/24/17 09:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't drink any tea he offered me, that's for sure.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24188411 - 03/24/17 10:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I just read an article about putins latest victim. He knew he was being hunted, got a bodyguard and he still ended up dead. I have no idea how anyone can defend putin. He's an international terrorist.



You don't know if he was being hunted by Putin or a private citizen, Mr "I Don't Need Proof" man.

The homicide rate in Russia is about 3 times that of the US.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/24/17 11:57 AM)

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24188777 - 03/24/17 12:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

we need to make ties with Russia...improve both our missile defence and nuclear program, so we can mutually assure our destruction that much more effectively. hell, if Hillary won, we'd already be dead, so....


we need it guys. trust me.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24188924 - 03/24/17 01:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I just read an article about putins latest victim. He knew he was being hunted, got a bodyguard and he still ended up dead. I have no idea how anyone can defend putin. He's an international terrorist.



You don't know if he was being hunted by Putin or a private citizen, Mr "I Don't Need Proof" man.

The homicide rate in Russia is about 3 times that of the US.




Gimme a break


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24188935 - 03/24/17 01:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You want a break from having to prove your claims?  That figures, Mr "I Don't Need Proof" man.

Your Logical Fallacy Is...


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24188944 - 03/24/17 01:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If you think Putin isn't fond of killing his political opponents despite years of him doing so, then me making the argument is useless. Well just have to agree to disagree that I'm right and you're a Putin sycophant.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24188970 - 03/24/17 01:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Putin dindu nuthin.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24188977 - 03/24/17 01:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
If you think Putin isn't fond of killing his political opponents despite years of him doing so, then me making the argument is useless.



Do you have proof that he's the one behind the killings, Mr "I Don't Need Proof" man?

Quote:

koods said:
Well just have to agree to disagree that I'm right and you're a Putin sycophant.



I'll agree you're right after you provide evidence to back up your claims.

I don't know if he did it or not.  Neither do you, but you pretend to.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24189006 - 03/24/17 01:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You seem to have an attitude about Putin that only a Russian nationalist could hold. Putin is a monster. /debate


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods] * 1
    #24189022 - 03/24/17 02:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think everyone should read dugin's fourth political theory...
https://www.amazon.ca/Fourth-Political-Theory-Alexander-Dugin/dp/1907166653

Putin has a fairly well defined Eurasian plan because we shit on Russia post soviet union... for what reason I don't know.

We did the same to Germany after ww1 and we all know what happened so somehow I think post putin Russia will be worse.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24189163 - 03/24/17 02:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I don't have any proof either, but doesn't it strike you as a curious coincidence that bad things tend to happen to those who oppose him? Something's rotten in Denmark, methinks....

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Le_Canard] * 1
    #24189182 - 03/24/17 03:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hillary makes people disappear too...so, it all evens out.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24189230 - 03/24/17 03:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The Hildebeast is a non-entity at this point.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #24189242 - 03/24/17 03:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

she's essentially like Josef Virek doing daily cyber-battle with Kek, hooked up to machines- she needs not concern herself with pants shitting any longer.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods] * 1
    #24189321 - 03/24/17 03:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You seem to have an attitude about Putin that only a Russian nationalist could hold. Putin is a monster. /debate



My attitude about Putin is the same as it about Trump is the same as it is about Clinton is the same as it is about Sanders.  And that attitude is I want to know the truth about them whether that person is on my side or not.

I guess you probably think it's ok for conservatives to say Obama was born in Kenya, or Hillary purposefully did something wrong regarding Benghazi, because it fits their narrative.  And since Putin isn't on 'your' team, you feel you have a right to make believe things about him to your heart's content.

I'm not the same way.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Le_Canard]
    #24189331 - 03/24/17 03:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Well, I don't have any proof either, but doesn't it strike you as a curious coincidence that bad things tend to happen to those who oppose him? Something's rotten in Denmark, methinks....



Hillary makes people disappear too...so, it all evens out.



The Hildebeast is a non-entity at this point.



The point is still valid.  People were killed.  Did Hillary do it?  I seriously doubt it, but I'll believe it if proof is found.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24189348 - 03/24/17 04:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: koods]
    #24189364 - 03/24/17 04:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24190722 - 03/25/17 02:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The hysteria over Russia is pretty far over the top at this point. And it's very American.






RUSSIA!  USSR!!







won't someone think of the........?


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channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24190727 - 03/25/17 02:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
If you think Putin isn't fond of killing his political opponents despite years of him doing so, then me making the argument is useless.



Do you have proof that he's the one behind the killings, Mr "I Don't Need Proof" man?






i know we're way past this topic, temporally,  but i kind of see this similar to the whole "russian hacking" debacle.  just because someone was hacking from a russian ip address doesn't mean the hacker was russian.  just because some numbers appeared from a phone/fiber optic line based in russia doesn't mean US operatives weren't behind it.

just because people end up dead that Putin want dead doesn't mean Putin killed them or ordered them killed.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: demiu5] * 3
    #24191040 - 03/25/17 07:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

oceania has always been at war with eurasia

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: nhobidy]
    #24191813 - 03/25/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

With UK out of the EU, the addition of Russia would not make it more powerful than the US.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Patlal] * 3
    #24191892 - 03/25/17 01:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Does anyone really think that Russia is capable of functioning as part of the EU?  Unless the rest of the Union is okay with being Russia's bitch, it's doomed to fail.  Russia doesn't play well with others.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24191919 - 03/25/17 01:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

russia is still grossly under industrialized

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: nhobidy]
    #24191923 - 03/25/17 01:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Russia would be sucking in Germany's cash and would use it to spend on it's military in the deluded hopes it would one day be able to rival the Allies' armies.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Patlal]
    #24191931 - 03/25/17 01:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
With UK out of the EU, the addition of Russia would not make it more powerful than the US.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24192652 - 03/25/17 05:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Does anyone really think that Russia is capable of functioning as part of the EU?  Unless the rest of the Union is okay with being Russia's bitch, it's doomed to fail.  Russia doesn't play well with others.



I don't know.  Can you explain your comment because I don't know what you mean.  :shrug:


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193042 - 03/25/17 08:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So until/unless Enlil explains his comment, I'd say yes, Russia is definitely capable of functioning in the EU.  Russia is already the EU's 3rd largest trading partner behind the US and China and being part of the EU would only make trading better for both sides.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193073 - 03/25/17 08:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yes is a valid answer, I suppose.  I can't say I'm surprised, but I don't agree.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193099 - 03/25/17 08:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Tell us why you think "Russia doesn't play well with others" and you might change my opinion.  :shrug:


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193135 - 03/25/17 09:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Meh.  Our respective opinions about the future aren't really worth trying to debate.  In the end, there's no way of knowing until it happens.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193140 - 03/25/17 09:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Russia is like the US.

that's why, Fal, at least for me; that is, about why i don't trust Russia.

bad blood, would be reason number 2. isn't Putin ex-KGB?

meh.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193185 - 03/25/17 09:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Meh.  Our respective opinions about the future aren't really worth trying to debate.  In the end, there's no way of knowing until it happens.



But I'm not asking you to predict the future.  I'm asking why you said "Russia doesn't play well with others."


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24193199 - 03/25/17 09:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Russia is like the US.

that's why, Fal, at least for me; that is, about why i don't trust Russia.

bad blood, would be reason number 2. isn't Putin ex-KGB?

meh.



Yes, Putin is ex KGB.  What should that mean to us?

Bush Sr is ex CIA.  Should that mean anything?


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193200 - 03/25/17 09:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ukraine, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan....they've a long history of it.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193229 - 03/25/17 09:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm asking why you said "Russia doesn't play well with others."



Ukraine, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan....they've a long history of it.



Pick the county above for which you think you think you can make the strongest argument against Russia, and let's discuss.  I think it falls well within the subject of this thread...

I summarized what happened in Ukraine here and would really appreciate anyone correcting any mistakes.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193240 - 03/25/17 09:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Against Russia?  I'm not sure what you mean.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193268 - 03/25/17 10:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Pick the county above for which you think you think you can make the strongest argument that "Russia doesn't play well with others" demonstrating it is incapable of functioning as part of the EU.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #24193271 - 03/25/17 10:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The genocide in Afghanistan is a good example.

And no, you're trying very hard to create a straw man to attribute to me, but I doubt it'll work.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193280 - 03/25/17 10:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

C'mon, elaborate at length.  We hardly ever get into any serious history around here, and it's one of my primary interests.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24193286 - 03/25/17 10:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'm on a phone, bro.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193296 - 03/25/17 10:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

fair enough


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193316 - 03/25/17 10:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Are you referring to Russia helping the progressives fight the Mujahideen in an Afghan civil war, to prevent religious extremists from ruling that area?


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24193330 - 03/25/17 10:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193690 - 03/26/17 03:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Pick the county above for which you think you think you can make the strongest argument that "Russia doesn't play well with others" demonstrating it is incapable of functioning as part of the EU.



The genocide in Afghanistan is a good example.

And no, you're trying very hard to create a straw man to attribute to me, but I doubt it'll work.



Are you referring to Russia helping the progressives fight the Mujahideen in an Afghan civil war, to prevent religious extremists from ruling that area?



No, I'm talking about the Russians razing villages and killing civilians.

http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft7b69p12h&chunk.id=d0e5195&toc.depth=1&toc.id=d0e5195&brand=ucpress



Yes, that's the war I'm talking about; the one in which Russia was defending a progressive government against Islamic extremists, and killing many of them in the process.

Killing of civilians during war is not unique to Russia though.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #24193903 - 03/26/17 07:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Of course not.  The u.s. Doesn't play well with others either.  Similarly, we wouldn't be a good fit for the EU


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193958 - 03/26/17 07:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Russia sucks... 3rd rate power...

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24193966 - 03/26/17 07:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ukraine.... Poland... hungry... Russians are not great at not genociding people....

Plus they havnt won a war that they didn't jump to the anglo saxon side half way through...

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24193968 - 03/26/17 07:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Europes not a good fit for the EU :lol:

Trying the submerge so many country's with completely different customs and completely different languages in to one giant super state, with one domineering governing body, that forces each member state to forfeit their national sovereignty is doomed to fail from the start.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24193972 - 03/26/17 07:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Rome did just fine...
The anglosphere does fine.

While I dont like the EU either... it is economic disparages, not cultural ones which make it untenable

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24193975 - 03/26/17 08:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Rome did just fine? I'm not sure what you mean.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24193977 - 03/26/17 08:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It was multi ethnic and multi cultural... lasted almost 2000 years from the republic to the fall of the holy roman empire in 1800s

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24193987 - 03/26/17 08:09 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yet it still fell. As will the EU. Europeans do not need to be governed by one centralised government to trade with each other. If the EU were solely about free trade, then that would be fine. Today however, that's not the case.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85] * 1
    #24193995 - 03/26/17 08:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey quick question right now.

Why do we see Russia as a superpower?

Are they as strong as we make them seem? Is Putin really all that powerful? They have a shit economy.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24193998 - 03/26/17 08:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

"It still fell"

I dont know what you even mean by that. Of course it fell.. to liberalism.. and Hitler came very close to reviving it.

The EU is really the best you could hope for trying to bring so many illiberal countries together.

A lot of countries in Europe have a long history of being slaves

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Patlal]
    #24194006 - 03/26/17 08:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

No they are garbage... but you know.... Oceania has always been at war with eurasia.


The same with china.. 3rd rate power at best... only their vast numbers of slaves make them formidable.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Patlal]
    #24194008 - 03/26/17 08:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Hey quick question right now.

Why do we see Russia as a superpower?

Are they as strong as we make them seem? Is Putin really all that powerful? They have a shit economy.





i'm going to preface this by stating: i know little to nothing about Russia's military/intelligence capabilities. 


that aside, i imagine the US considers them a superpower, as N. Korea may well be in the coming years, solely because Russia, like the US (sees itself much, no?), has no hesitations about "playing dirty" and violating humans rights/war rules any time they have a chance of getting away with it.  They can't be pinned down, psychologically, and that's what makes them so dangerous (to the US or other nations outside of their immediate sphere).  Again, I think the US sees itself in these other countries (Russia, N. Korea, dare i add Pakistan) as a ruthless, loose-cannon.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24194022 - 03/26/17 08:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Illiberal country's? :lol: Europe has some of the most liberal country's on Earth bro.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24194036 - 03/26/17 08:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

hmmm...comments like that really make me wonder what people learn from school... When was Spain fascists until? Greece? Italy?

and don't get me started on the social democracies and communist republics....

Edited by chosenone (03/26/17 08:35 AM)

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24194070 - 03/26/17 08:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I would also add that the EU is trying to succeed where the Romans, Hitler and possible others have failed. It's the same concept, just being undertaken by different means. The only difference is the EU is inherently deceitful about its end goals.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone] * 1
    #24194075 - 03/26/17 08:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

chosenone said:
It was multi ethnic and multi cultural... lasted almost 2000 years from the republic to the fall of the holy roman empire in 1800s



The Holy Roman Empire was not in any way related to the Roman empire. Rome fell in the 15th century with the byzantines.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24194084 - 03/26/17 08:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

LOL

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24194090 - 03/26/17 08:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The EU is a liberal state... Ill agree that the social democracy poisons the well though.

I am a canzuk guy fyi so I believe we are on the same team.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24194098 - 03/26/17 08:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

chosenone said:
LOL




It wasn't Roman because it wasn't a direct continuation of the Roman Empire, it was rather a revival of the idea of the (Western) Roman Empire. That first happened with the blessing of Charlemagne, 300 years after the fall of the Western Empire, but the Holy Roman Empire as we know it didn't get going for at least another hundred years - quite a big gap in other words.

It wasn't Holy because although it started with the idea of a king being blessed by the Patriarch of Rome, very quickly it became a struggle between temporal and spiritual authority.

Finally, it wasn't really an Empire in the purest sense because it was very much reliant on a federal alliance of princely states, and for most of its history the Emperor was elected - a pretty unusual state of affairs for an empire.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24194127 - 03/26/17 09:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

aww yes I remember the catholic church fell too and the true seat of power in the west had no continuity.

As for Charlemagne, I am not sure why civil wars in Rome proper are considered different once they leave the city limits.

After the 2ed fall of the city it was decided by the church that a decentralized form of government linked to the church was the only way to hold the cultural divergent groups together and protect the continuity of government.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24194155 - 03/26/17 09:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)


The EU is a liberal state... Ill agree that the social democracy poisons the well though.

I am a canzuk guy fyi so I believe we are on the same team.



Or the lack there of. The people in charge are not even elected to govern. The lack of accountability is a big issue.

The un elected bureaucrats at the EU HQ, have the power to override our nationally elected politicians.

Edited by Bubbles85 (03/26/17 09:26 AM)

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24194162 - 03/26/17 09:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I Agree, But honestly we have the same issue in canada... Civil society is very powerful in the west.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Patlal]
    #24194172 - 03/26/17 09:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Hey quick question right now.

Why do we see Russia as a superpower?

Are they as strong as we make them seem? Is Putin really all that powerful? They have a shit economy.



I definitely comes down to the power of their military.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24194178 - 03/26/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bubbles85 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Hey quick question right now.

Why do we see Russia as a superpower?

Are they as strong as we make them seem? Is Putin really all that powerful? They have a shit economy.



I definitely comes down to the power of their military.




Which rivals the Danes... Their power comes from their skill in influence and subversion.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24194197 - 03/26/17 09:41 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:

Got a source to back that up?

Whilst i agree Russia's military is not comparable to nato combined (I know you didn't say that, just throwing it out there) they are one of very few country's in the world that has the military capabilities to rival country's like the US.

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24194217 - 03/26/17 09:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Meh not really, Its hard to get an accurate reading on anything in today's world with out taking someones untrustworthy word.

While Russia conventional weapons cache is impressive and their man power is close to the us I believe, its hard to judge their tech.

What worries me about Putin's build up is the parallels to post Wiemar Germany's build up, and I just cant figure out why we would isolate Russia like that after the fall of the USSR...

I have a feeling it is a powershift to the east orchestrated by the fabian international tendencies. And all I have to back that up is a pattern of history, a feeling, and the recent hard push for Chinese lead globalism.

Edited by chosenone (03/26/17 09:55 AM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: nhobidy]
    #24194290 - 03/26/17 10:22 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nhobidy said:
oceania has always been at war with eurasia




      Except when Oceania is at war with  Eastasia  and then they have always been at war with Eastasia.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24194551 - 03/26/17 12:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The u.s. Doesn't play well with others either.  Similarly, we wouldn't be a good fit for the EU




I suppose akira had the best point then:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Russia is like the US.

that's why... i don't trust Russia.




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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24194633 - 03/26/17 12:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Anyone here ever read Orson Scott Card's sci-fi novels?  They're pretty good if you can look past the religious allegory.

In the afterword of least one of them (Children of the Mind, maybe?), he discusses his theory of "edge" and "center" nations and their respective national characters.  Under his regime, Russia and the U.S. fall into the "edge" nation category while China and India fall into the "center" nation category.  "edge" nations are always striving for dominance, or to generally prove the superiority of their culture, while "center" nations are themselves convinced of their superiority and thus have less need for conquest etc.  "Center" nations, when conquered, soon absorb and assimilate their oppressors (like mongols in China).  He goes more in depth, and i'm not gonna go find the book right now.  I just thought it seemed relevant to the topic at hand


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24194648 - 03/26/17 12:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Anyone here ever read




I stopped here, because the answer was already clear by then:  No.


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24194654 - 03/26/17 12:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Anyone here ever read Orson Scott Card's sci-fi novels?  They're pretty good if you can look past the religious allegory.

In the afterword of least one of them (Children of the Mind, maybe?), he discusses his theory of "edge" and "center" nations and their respective national characters.  Under his regime, Russia and the U.S. fall into the "edge" nation category while China and India fall into the "center" nation category.  "edge" nations are always striving for dominance, or to generally prove the superiority of their culture, while "center" nations are themselves convinced of their superiority and thus have less need for conquest etc.  "Center" nations, when conquered, soon absorb and assimilate their oppressors (like mongols in China).  He goes more in depth, and i'm not gonna go find the book right now.  I just thought it seemed relevant to the topic at hand




Modern china is a asian supremacist society. The Majority of educated Chinese believe they evolved from homo erectus instead of neanderthals and therefore are smarter then other races and are destined to rule the world in some benevolent globalism?
I think that's how it goes?

So my question is is that a center nation or an edge nation?

Edited by chosenone (03/26/17 12:32 PM)

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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: Enlil]
    #24194679 - 03/26/17 12:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:ohyou:


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Re: Putin Wants to Join the EU - He Must Be Stopped! [Re: chosenone]
    #24194685 - 03/26/17 12:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

chosenone said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Anyone here ever read Orson Scott Card's sci-fi novels?  They're pretty good if you can look past the religious allegory.

In the afterword of least one of them (Children of the Mind, maybe?), he discusses his theory of "edge" and "center" nations and their respective national characters.  Under his regime, Russia and the U.S. fall into the "edge" nation category while China and India fall into the "center" nation category.  "edge" nations are always striving for dominance, or to generally prove the superiority of their culture, while "center" nations are themselves convinced of their superiority and thus have less need for conquest etc.  "Center" nations, when conquered, soon absorb and assimilate their oppressors (like mongols in China).  He goes more in depth, and i'm not gonna go find the book right now.  I just thought it seemed relevant to the topic at hand




Modern china is a asian supremacist society. The Majority of educated Chinese believe they evolved from homo erectus instead of neanderthals and therefore are smarter then other races and are destined to rule the world in some benevolent globalism?
I think that's how it goes?

So my question is is that a center nation or an edge nation?




I'm no expert.  I only brought it up because i'm too lazy to look through my bookshelves, find the correct novel, and read the afterword.  I was hoping someone else would have a more clear memory of it, and discuss.

I would say that if the Chinese are relying on destiny, that probably leans more towards the "center" nation concept.

Edit: I'm pretty sure both groups are supposed to feel superior, but one has to prove it, while the other just takes it as a given.


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Edited by ballsalsa (03/26/17 12:51 PM)

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